Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 12:09pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 11:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 11:11am: freediver wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 11:02am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 10:51am: freediver wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 10:29am: Palestine did not exist as a country until Israel did. It is 100% about religion. The middle east was carved up however western countries wanted it. Most of the countries are very recent inventions. The locals got over it and moved on, until the Jews stepped out of line. Religion is the marker by which most on each side identify themselves, not the reason for war. I'd bet there are Palestinian Christians who stand with their Palestinian compatriots against Israel, as there may be Arab-Israelis who stand with Israel. Had another Semitic people or other foreign entity claimed Palestine as Jews did, the local Palestinians would have risen up against them also. This is about cultural identity and nationhood, not religious affiliation. You are projecting. In this case, it is entirely about religion. The Palestinians would not have risen up against other Muslims. Israel is the only middle eastern country whose existence the Muslims generally object to, because of the Jews rising above their natural place. You mean like Iran and Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Kurds against Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey? Yes. We have Australian Muslims on this website preaching that Islam will inevitably reconquer Israel. They actually say the same thing about Spain. They consider the land to be owned by the religion. Not by a country or an ethnicity or some other ideology. By religion. We have?  Where, whom?  Evidence please, Freediver?  Or you are talking bullshit again?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

falah wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 2:42pm:

freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:21pm: It cannot cope with trying to make peace with the victors. You mean surrender. Muslims don't surrender. Do you consider surrender a praiseworthy act? Why don't you go and live in France you surrender-monkey? freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:21pm: It cannot cope with a Jewish homeland in land 'owned' by Islam. Jews lived in Muslim land with peace and security for centuries while they were persecuted by the Catholic church. Do Muslims accept that jews steal land and dispossess Muslim? Of course not. Who would accept that?

falah wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 12:32pm:

freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 6:21pm: Quote: Do you consider surrender a praiseworthy act? It is better than refusing to acknowledge you lost a war. If you don't surrender, you haven't lost.

falah wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 12:32pm:

Quote: Falah, what is the difference between refusing to surrender when you have lost so miserably, and not wanting the bloodshed to continue? Do you actually think the Palestinians are on the verge of some kind of victory? It is one thing to sign a peace treaty, another thing to surrender. We have seen what happens to those who made the mistake of surrender eg. Catholics genocided Muslims and Jews in Spain. Take the Aboriginal example in Australia. The Aborigines who surrenderd to the British Christians were virtually wiped out and dispossessed. Those who put up the fiercest resistance, like the Yolngu Arnhem Landers, today remain on their land. History shows us that many wars have looked lost before they swung the other way. The USSR looked lost in 1941 when the Nazis were on the outskirts of Moscow. Just over three years later Soviet troops had captured Berlin. It looked like the merciless Crusaders were firmly entrenched in the Palestine when Saladin became leader of Egypt in 1167. 20 years later Saladin had managed to unify the muslims in the region and expel the Christian invaders from Jerusalem. The Crusader occuaption of jerusalem last for 99 years. The Balfour Zionist occupation of Jerusalem has lasted 94 years. In recent years Muslim have freed Sinai, Gaza and southern Lebanon from the Zionist occupation. Since 2000 muslims have managed to force Israel to withdraw from Gaza and southern Lebanon. Full victory is just around the corner by the Grace of God Almighty.

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 7:01pm:

freediver wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 6:25pm: falah wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 9:16am: freediver wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 8:19am: Quote: But too I believe Palestinians can exist as neighbours to us. I wonder if Abu and Falah could reciprocate this gesture without qualifying it as temporary or some other silly attempt at deception. I believe Israelis can live as good neighbours as soon as they get off stolen Palestinian land. And go where? Wherever they came from.

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:51pm:

The Israelis can end the violence now by giving the Palestinians their land back. It is simple.

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:51pm:

Put simply, the Israeli Jews will never make peace because, as their rejection of every peace demonstrates, their greed is overwhelming.

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 7:10pm:

Despite their many crimes, Prophet Muhammed mercifully gave the tribe deemed least treacherous one last chance to stay if they converted to Islam. Some of the Jews dedcided to take up the offer and converted o Islam, others left. This was all done on a case by case basis. Over the years, all the Jewish tribes in Madina proved themselves to be treacherous and broke their treaties with the Muslims.

falah wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 12:35am:

freediver wrote on Jun 4th, 2012 at 12:27pm: falah wrote on Jun 4th, 2012 at 10:07am: freediver wrote on Jun 4th, 2012 at 8:13am: ...It even has calls for more violence between settlers and aborigines... http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1338172056 More lies Freeliar. You really can't help yourself can you? It is good for people to see that the Islam-haters are liars. Your stupidity harms your own cause. Quotes from Falah: Quote: The thesis in its entirety demonstrates how interaction with Muslims saved the Arnhem Land Aboriginies from being genocided by European Christians like what happedned everywhere else in Australia. [quote]The Yolngu had seen white Dutch in their travels to Indonesia. They had been told to be wary of the whites, and knew they needed to resist them, and they knew how to deal with them. [quote]Indigenous people in northern coastal areas visited by Macassans were prepared to fight invaders from the earliest instances, unlike their Southern counterparts whose timidity often allowed European settlers to gain a strong foothold that made resistance more difficult.

How should we interpret this Falah? Would the southern aborigines have been better off if they knew about and used more violent strategies?[/quote]

If the Southern Aborigines had managed to defend themselves better, they might still own the land.


Can you prove your lie that my thesis calls for more violence?

[/quote]


falah wrote on May 26^th, 2012 at 8:26pm:

Freeliar it is Israel which is attacking Muslims, and the whole world except you and the rest of the Jews knows this.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 5^th, 2008 at 7:36pm:

Against my better judgement I'm resuming posting in this thread... Quote: Didn't either you or Malik say that they elected rulers in the Caliphate and that there were provisions for this in the Koran? Note that I said forbidden from partaking in democratic elections. As I mentioned earlier, democracy doesn't mean electing your leader, democracy means human beings legislating right and wrong from their own minds. As far as I'm aware the word "republic" describes the system by which the leader is popularly elected to represent the people. Islam has no problem with a republican model of electing a leader, but when it comes to human beings legislating, the Qur'an and hadith are quite clear. "And whosoever does not rule by what Allah has revealed, such are disbelievers" (5:44) Also from the hadith we have the story of Adi Bin Hatim (May God be pleased with him) who came upon a gathering around the Messenger of God (Pbuh) and heard him saying the Jews and Christians had stooped into polytheism. He interjected and noted that even though the Christians had done this, the Jews had not. So Muhammad (Pbuh) said that their Priests and Rabbis make right and wrong for them from their own minds, and the people follow it, and that is worship of them, instead of God. Basically what it comes down is that one of God's 99 attributes/names according to Islam is Al-Haakim (The Legislator). And he is the sole being worthy of legislating, so anyone who competes with him in this matter is considered to be a false god, and anyone who subscribes to that legislation is a worshipper of a false god, ie. a polytheist. That is why a Muslim is not permitted to partake in Democratic elections, whether in Australia or Makkah or in Timbuktu for that matter. Whether the party is the ALP or it is a so called "Islamic party". Democratic elections are a competition not simply for who will be ruler, but who will be legislator, Muslims are forbidden to elect a legislator, we may only elect a representative (Caliph) who will implement the legislation of the only true Legislator, God.

Malik Shakur wrote on Jul 5^th, 2008 at 9:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 5th, 2008 at 4:24pm: Some scholars say it's prohibited to vote in elections because your voting in a non muslim government Is that the extent of it? There is nothing against democracy in the Koran, just against voting for someone who isn't a muslim? It depends on how you define democracy FD, the word means the rule by the people. If you mean that the people make the legislation according to their own lusts and wants etc then that wont work in an Islamic State because the law is primarily decided by the Qur'an and Sunnah. Christians are bound by Christian law and Jews are bound by Jewish law.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:19pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2012 at 5:57pm: Is it obligatory? For women also? I'm not aware of any obligatory state military service according to Islam. However if a Muslim land is occupied or attacked, then it's obligatory upon all Muslims to protect it, as a group responsibility.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 14^th, 2012 at 7:34pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 14th, 2012 at 8:16am: You will understand that I am still in the Israeli army so I cannot comment on any story like this. Of course you don't wanna comment about being a member of a despicable inhuman terrorist organisation like that, which goes around butchering women and children. You're a maggot.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 16^th, 2012 at 12:31am:

Big Dave wrote on Aug 15th, 2012 at 8:20am: Never mind all of the people killed by terrorists bombings inside Isreal hey. Oh, and we'll skip the rockets fired at Isreal . And we'll even skip the fact that a whole bunch of neighbouring arab muslim countries tried to invade them and had their butts kicked. I just don't understand how a person with half a neuron could overlook such facts. ٍOk, so you think the Muslims mishandled the mass illegal immigration of Jews into their land and their taking over it and turning it into a Jewish-state... So tell us what you would do if Muslims did the same to Australia? I'm honestly interested in what you think the correct way to handle such a massive swamping and saturation of your population by a foreign people seeking to overrun your land and make it exclusively theirs. Not one of you tossers on here has ever honestly answered this scenario, and I doubt you specifically have the grey matter to be the first, but please at least attempt it, be my guest.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 11:24pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Aug 31st, 2012 at 11:35am: abu_rashid wrote on Aug 30th, 2012 at 10:02pm: Soren wrote on Aug 30th, 2012 at 9:06pm: There will be a bloodbath before Europe falls. There always is. You mean more of the kind of stuff your mate Breivik did? As you and I both know, Europe is intellectually declining, ideologically they have nothing, their way of life is a failure, and so it will be swept away by an ideology that deserves to be implemented. And all their offspring (ie. former European colonies like us) will eventually follow suit. The future is for Islam, you know it, and you will eventually submit to it!!! ;D :D ;D :D ;D Well, you are right that it is in intellectual decline, but that is only because it has grown weak and allowed the neo-Marxist and anarchist types to dominate the intellectual discourse. (Actually, it has grown weak because of the neo-Marxists and anarchists). This will continue for some time, as their egalitarian slogans have the good conscience on its side, but wait for another large economic downturn and the course of the West will change, again. Unfortunately for you, it won't be Islam. Islam offers nothing practical; it's purely sloganeering injected with mysticism. The Anglo-Saxon geist in particular works on a more empirical level; therefore your mystical preaching won't gain much traction. No, it has grown weak because it has abandoned all moral anchorage and debased itself to a state of wayward hedonism, which does nothing but misguide.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 31^st, 2012 at 11:28pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 30th, 2012 at 10:39pm: Europe has beaten back Muslim invasions before, at least twice. It will not fold quietly  this time either, certainly not to primitivism (ie Islam). That was pure luck. Muslims just weren't focusing as much as they should've been. Internal struggles within the Umayyad and later Ottoman societies diverted their attention from Europe. They took large swathes of it though, and will do so again, insha'allah. Time for Neo-Andalusianism  ;) Soren wrote on Aug 30th, 2012 at 10:39pm: Europe is indeed ripe for a renewal but Islam is not it. Islam is for primitive people, it is for the taming the desert pagans and Aboriginese and Indonesians and Malays and other backward races. It will not be taken up by any sophisticated civilisation, no matter how enervated. They might as well go back to their own primitive, pagan roots, which they have always been nostalgic about. They don't need some stupid Arab joke of a superstition. They have their own paganism. Hate to break it to ya sunshine, but never heard of the Albanians or Bosnians? And of course the Andalusians for several centuries?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 12:24am:

Quote: Do you understand that such behaviour could be construed as a declaration of war? I don't know where you've been, but the Zionists declared war on the entire Muslim world back in the 1920's when they began their little project to swipe a Muslim country, and make it their own. Bit late to realise a state of war exists isn't it?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 7:51pm:

Quote: However the violation of diplomatic status is a common occurrence in middle eastern 'nations', indicating a lack of the maturity and intelligence required to be taken seriously on the world stage. It is? Can you name a few examples for me? The Israeli embassy should not be there in the first place, as the Egyptian, and all other people in the region, do not accept or recognise the imposition on the land of Palestine that is the Zionist descration. For decades American-imposed dictators have forced the people to accept these embassies and these relations with this illegitimate entity, not any more.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 4:49am:

Yadda, No treaty ever existed between the Muslims and the Zionist entity. That's the point here. The treaty existed between the Western installed puppets and the Western installed Zionist entity... ie. the treaty was between the West and herself. Just like the wars were largely between the West and herself. The Zionist trained and installed army against the British led "Arab" legions... A farce designed to fool the gullible, (obviously reaching its intended target in you). Sappho, not just the Arab world, the entire Muslim world, yes. Again, where have you been?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 1:31pm:

If you're a fascist I guess that's what you'd be wanting to do. Keep in mind here, it is the West that has made this declaration against the Muslim world, not the other way 'round. So not only are they the victims of these aggressions, you're now suggesting that they should be further vilified and oppressed. Quite a nasty piece of work aren't you?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 9:24pm:

I don't recall saying Arab nations... this is your invention. The West declared war on the Muslim world, on the civilians, on the people, on their resources, on their culture, on their society, on their sanctity, on their security, on their peace. The "nations", or the puppet rulers the West put into place, are certainly not at war with the West, they are sustained by the West. Hence the misunderstanding about the Israeli embassy in Cairo. The puppet government there respects the embassy, and defends it with their lives, and the Israelis acknowledge that. The people on the other hand are a different kettle of fish.

Calanen wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 6:13pm:

Quote: hahhaha, wadda hide the treacherous hamas have. Yes there is never any permanent truce with infidels. Only a hudna, during which time you consolidate your forces to attack them again. Even if there is a treaty with the infidels, you are free to break it. Hamas has also said a few times that a truce could last 10 years, but not more than 10 years. Why 10 years? Because that is what Islam permits, a hudna of up to 10 years with infidels. As with the Treaty of Al-Hudaybiyyah - which is often cited as code by Muslims to say, 'Don't worry, this agreement is only temporary.' This happened with Yassir Arafat for him to reassure his party members about the Oslo Accords. Have a read of Majid Khadduri's War and Peace and the Law of Islam. I might do a little blogging section on it, soon.

Calanen wrote on Jan 28^th, 2009 at 1:50pm:

Ah yes, Brigadier-General Khadduri's War and Peace and the Law of Islam. Published in 1955 for the benefit of the Pakistani Army, long before the Religion of Peace, Dhimmitude in the Western Press and Political Correctness. *EVERY* British soldier, US soldier and Australian soldier should have a copy of this book and read it. And every politician in those countries. That way they might in fact have a clue instead of reciting the same bulls** Al Taqiyya about the Religion of Peace. Quote: 'It follows that in Muslim legal theory, defeat is an anomaly which could be tolerated only under force majeur; thus the imam is advised either to abstain from going to war if his forces are insufficient to attain victory, or, if he should suffer defeat, to withdraw and save the lives of surviving believers. Defeated muslims always maintained taht their battle with the enemy would be resumed, however long they had to wait for the second round. at [136] [quote] "By their very nature treaties must be of a temporary duration, for in Muslim legal theory the normal relations between Muslim and non-Mulslim territories are not peaceful, but warlike. Since in theory the jihad could not possibly be suspended more than ten years, treaties must necessarily be terminated by the end of that period, even though the duration is not specified in its terms.

at 220




Quote:

"Thus the dar al harb (House of War where we live),in contrast to the dar al Islam, may be regarded as a territory outside the pale of Muslim law; it lacks the legal competence to enter into relations with dar al-Islam on the basis of equality. It follows that any arrangements made between the two dars is, by necessity, of short duration, since it carries with it no implied recognition or change in the war status.'

at [170]

So, you IDIOTS, start learning that your treaties and agreements with Muslims are a temporary respite for when war returns and are meaningless.
[/quote]

On nuclear non-proliferation treaties with Muslim nations:


abu_rashid wrote on Aug 18^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

When the treaty is aimed at solidifying the military/technological hegemony of a few select countries, why not? Any such treaty isn't worth the paper it's written on, and I suspect the powers behind it well know it. Doesn't stop them attempting to bully smaller nations into line though, if they're gullible enough to accept it.

abu_rashid wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 6:41am:

Quote: with a strategy to undermine it [quote]Christians and indeed secularists and Atheists are going to develop strategies too and their resistance is going to be greater having held those lands for many years. Islam would not peacefully become the minority in Mecca without bloodshed would it?

Well its certainly become a minority in al-Quds (ie. Jerusalem), a land which we've lived in for close to 2 thousand years, ie. about 10 times longer than Christians have lived in Australia.

So if Christians can take our land and turn it into a majority of another religion, then I'm sure we can reciprocate.


Quote:

For example it was be hard to find a Christian in an Islamic country who thought they were being treated fairly and impartially. The general consensus of opinion seems to be their very lives are under siege.

Firstly there is no Islamic country. All of the nations in the Muslim world are colonialist concoctions, not Islamic countries. Secondly, EVERYONE is treated badly in them, hence the reason Muslims and Christians and others have all been rising up together to overthrow the Western imposed dictators who've been oppressing EVERYONE every since the West installed them.
[/quote]


polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 13^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:34pm: Does every single one of these historical accounts blame the Jews? Yeah, pretty much. Try, if you can, to view this outside the prevailing "can't ever say anything negative about the jews" prism that we live in today. I know it can be hard, since it is so culturally entrenched. But it shouldn't make us intellectually dishonest about historical facts. If you have any valid evidence that these jewish tribes were victims of an anti-semitic agenda, by all means present it. I haven't seen any yet. All I see is political conflict between competing rival powers, which eventually came to a head. In the absense of evidence to the contrary, Muhammad should get the benefit of the doubt that he was sincere about his commitment to coexist peacefully with his non-muslim neighbours - until he was forced to change because of strategic-defensive concerns.

Who are these loonies?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 1:20pm:

Who are these loonies?

Abu Rashid was the moderator of the Islam sub forum before gandalf.

Falah was just your average Salafi muslim. There was a couple of good posts when He told Annie Anthrax (another muslim) that it's OK to marry a 8 year old girl because Muhammad married a 8 yo. Annir had a 8 yo daughter she called him a sick freak and no longer claims to be a muslim.

Back to Israel there are reports Hamas are capturing women nothing new here that is how Muhammad gained a few wives. Muhammad hated jews he didn't mind sticking his dick into jewish women.


Quote:

The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. https://sunnah.com/muslim:1730a

Juwairiya became one of Muhammads wives take note of the captured part. There would have been a few Allahu Akbars that day.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 2:28pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 1:20pm: Who are these loonies? Abu Rashid was the moderator of the Islam sub forum before gandalf. Falah was just your average Salafi muslim. There was a couple of good posts when He told Annie Anthrax (another muslim) that it's OK to marry a 8 year old girl because Muhammad married a 8 yo. Annir had a 8 yo daughter she called him a sick freak and no longer claims to be a muslim. Back to Israel there are reports Hamas are capturing women nothing new here that is how Muhammad gained a few wives. Muhammad hated jews he didn't mind sticking his dick into jewish women. Quote: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. https://sunnah.com/muslim:1730a Juwairiya became one of Muhammads wives take note of the captured part. There would have been a few Allahu Akbars that day.

Muslims try to paint it as an Islamic love story.

Islam is the cause of the conflict  -

I agree ban Islam.

So, no one in the last decade, Freediver?  Gee, how far back do you have to troll to find evidence, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

So, no one in the last decade, Freediver?  Gee, how far back do you have to troll to find evidence, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Bbwian is the big guy on the right.

https://youtu.be/2ernUF5sP9U?si=AZlTRitj-P_U6_LG

Bobby. wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 2:59pm:

Islam is the cause of the conflict  - I agree ban Islam.

If I were "King" of the world, I'd ban all religions.

Religions—all of them—have caused more deaths
than WWI and WWII combined.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8^th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

So, no one in the last decade, Freediver?  Gee, how far back do you have to troll to find evidence, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Are you saying Islam has changed in the last decade, or is this just more spineless apologetics?

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 1:45am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 2:59pm: Islam is the cause of the conflict  - I agree ban Islam. If I were "King" of the world, I'd ban all religions. Religions—all of them—have caused more deaths than WWI and WWII combined.

Actually, the one ideology that has killed more people than any is atheist. There is nothing more dangerous than someone who wants to control what you think, and who sincerely believes they are doing it for your own good.

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 1:45am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 2:59pm: Islam is the cause of the conflict  - I agree ban Islam. If I were "King" of the world, I'd ban all religions. Religions—all of them—have caused more deaths than WWI and WWII combined.

Ah... reflex equivalence.   Saves you from thinking.

Australian Muslims celebrating the slaughter of Jewish civilians at a music festival:

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSNF4SRwX/

Remember all that sensitive new-age bleating about "moderate" Islam? Where is it?

It has gone into submission.

A 100 protestors appears to be quite a minority to me, particularly 100 which is made up primarily of Leftist Australians.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Or is this just more meaningless spineless apologetics?

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 3:08pm:

Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Or is this just more meaningless spineless apologetics?

Forgotten the Moratoriam Protests in the late 1960s and early 1970s?  Forgotten the protests against the Iraqi war?  They were massive protests which constituted a fair proportion of the population.  When we see protests as large as those, amongst the Muslim population you might be able to claim a majority viewpoint.  Until you do, Freediver you and the other Islamophobes here are just barking up an Islamophobic tree.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 3:37pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:08pm: Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Or is this just more meaningless spineless apologetics? Forgotten the Moratoriam Protests in the late 1960s and early 1970s?  Forgotten the protests against the Iraqi war?  They were massive protests which constituted a fair proportion of the population.  When we see protests as large as those, amongst the Muslim population you might be able to claim a majority viewpoint.  Until you do, Freediver you and the other Islamophobes here are just barking up an Islamophobic tree.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

;D

Wow. You really are deluded, in your spineless apologetics. Which of those protests did the majority of the population turn up to?

Quote:

Islam is the cause of the conflict

It has nothing to do with 75 years of oppression land theft and murders ?

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 3:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:37pm: freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:08pm: Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Or is this just more meaningless spineless apologetics? Forgotten the Moratoriam Protests in the late 1960s and early 1970s?  Forgotten the protests against the Iraqi war?  They were massive protests which constituted a fair proportion of the population.  When we see protests as large as those, amongst the Muslim population you might be able to claim a majority viewpoint.  Until you do, Freediver you and the other Islamophobes here are just barking up an Islamophobic tree.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) ;D Wow. You really are deluded, in your spineless apologetics. Which of those protests did the majority of the population turn up to?

They were the biggest protests we have seen in Australia with sufficient to shake the Government of the day to their boots.  The Moratorium protests prompted the end of Australia's commitment to South Vietnam and the Iraqi War ones made the Government unfortunately hold it's course and saw us become involved in the invasion of Iraq.  There were over two hundred thousand in the Moratorium protests and as nearly as many in the anti-Iraqi war ones. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 3:58pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:44pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:37pm: freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:08pm: Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Or is this just more meaningless spineless apologetics? Forgotten the Moratoriam Protests in the late 1960s and early 1970s?  Forgotten the protests against the Iraqi war?  They were massive protests which constituted a fair proportion of the population.  When we see protests as large as those, amongst the Muslim population you might be able to claim a majority viewpoint.  Until you do, Freediver you and the other Islamophobes here are just barking up an Islamophobic tree.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) ;D Wow. You really are deluded, in your spineless apologetics. Which of those protests did the majority of the population turn up to? They were the biggest protests we have seen in Australia with sufficient to shake the Government of the day to their boots.

You shake governments TO their core, Bbwian.
They may or may not shake IN their boots.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 3:58pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:44pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:37pm: freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:08pm: Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Or is this just more meaningless spineless apologetics? Forgotten the Moratoriam Protests in the late 1960s and early 1970s?  Forgotten the protests against the Iraqi war?  They were massive protests which constituted a fair proportion of the population.  When we see protests as large as those, amongst the Muslim population you might be able to claim a majority viewpoint.  Until you do, Freediver you and the other Islamophobes here are just barking up an Islamophobic tree.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) ;D Wow. You really are deluded, in your spineless apologetics. Which of those protests did the majority of the population turn up to? They were the biggest protests we have seen in Australia with sufficient to shake the Government of the day to their boots.  The Moratorium protests prompted the end of Australia's commitment to South Vietnam and the Iraqi War ones made the Government unfortunately hold it's course and saw us become involved in the invasion of Iraq.  There were over two hundred thousand in the Moratorium protests and as nearly as many in the anti-Iraqi war ones. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Did they do all that while only being a minority Brian?

Remember, you are the one that made an issue of it, not me. Do try to remember the point.

Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian?

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 9:41am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 3:09pm: So, no one in the last decade, Freediver?  Gee, how far back do you have to troll to find evidence, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Are you saying Islam has changed in the last decade, or is this just more spineless apologetics?

your opinion changed over the last decade FD despite islam not changing. I even found some old posts of you supporting Islam ( was shocked). Are you special in that only you can change your mind?

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 5:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:58pm: freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:44pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:37pm: freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:08pm: Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Or is this just more meaningless spineless apologetics? Forgotten the Moratoriam Protests in the late 1960s and early 1970s?  Forgotten the protests against the Iraqi war?  They were massive protests which constituted a fair proportion of the population.  When we see protests as large as those, amongst the Muslim population you might be able to claim a majority viewpoint.  Until you do, Freediver you and the other Islamophobes here are just barking up an Islamophobic tree.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) ;D Wow. You really are deluded, in your spineless apologetics. Which of those protests did the majority of the population turn up to? They were the biggest protests we have seen in Australia with sufficient to shake the Government of the day to their boots.  The Moratorium protests prompted the end of Australia's commitment to South Vietnam and the Iraqi War ones made the Government unfortunately hold it's course and saw us become involved in the invasion of Iraq.  There were over two hundred thousand in the Moratorium protests and as nearly as many in the anti-Iraqi war ones. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) Did they do all that while only being a minority Brian? Remember, you are the one that made an issue of it, not me. Do try to remember the point. Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian?

Have you, Freediver?  No, of course not.  However, significantly large minorities turned up to the Moratorium marches to make the Government change it's mind.  When you see several hundred thousand people turn up to protest, you of course  you think about what you are doing.  Now, how many turned up to the pro-Hamas rally again?  100, hey?  That's really going make the Government think twice about it's policies, now isn't it?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 5:14pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 5:06pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:58pm: freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:44pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:37pm: freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:08pm: Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Or is this just more meaningless spineless apologetics? Forgotten the Moratoriam Protests in the late 1960s and early 1970s?  Forgotten the protests against the Iraqi war?  They were massive protests which constituted a fair proportion of the population.  When we see protests as large as those, amongst the Muslim population you might be able to claim a majority viewpoint.  Until you do, Freediver you and the other Islamophobes here are just barking up an Islamophobic tree.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) ;D Wow. You really are deluded, in your spineless apologetics. Which of those protests did the majority of the population turn up to? They were the biggest protests we have seen in Australia with sufficient to shake the Government of the day to their boots.  The Moratorium protests prompted the end of Australia's commitment to South Vietnam and the Iraqi War ones made the Government unfortunately hold it's course and saw us become involved in the invasion of Iraq.  There were over two hundred thousand in the Moratorium protests and as nearly as many in the anti-Iraqi war ones. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) Did they do all that while only being a minority Brian? Remember, you are the one that made an issue of it, not me. Do try to remember the point. Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Have you, Freediver?  No, of course not.  However, significantly large minorities turned up to the Moratorium marches to make the Government change it's mind.  When you see several hundred thousand people turn up to protest, you of course  you think about what you are doing.  Now, how many turned up to the pro-Hamas rally again?  100, hey?  That's really going make the Government think twice about it's policies, now isn't it?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

I bloody hope so.

We shouldn't have supporters of terrorist organizations like Hamas in Australia. Led by an imam calling terrorism 'victory day'. What a ****ing disgrace. The wolves walk among us, excused by the moronic Bbwians.

Imagine if a rabbi or priest called the day Tarrant murdered scores of Muslims 'victory day' and hundreds turned up to cheer him. What would be your response, spineless,  squishy apologist cockwomble??  ' oh, it's just a 100 or so, nuffin' to see here.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 5:14pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 5:06pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:58pm: freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:44pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:37pm: freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:08pm: Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Or is this just more meaningless spineless apologetics? Forgotten the Moratoriam Protests in the late 1960s and early 1970s?  Forgotten the protests against the Iraqi war?  They were massive protests which constituted a fair proportion of the population.  When we see protests as large as those, amongst the Muslim population you might be able to claim a majority viewpoint.  Until you do, Freediver you and the other Islamophobes here are just barking up an Islamophobic tree.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) ;D Wow. You really are deluded, in your spineless apologetics. Which of those protests did the majority of the population turn up to? They were the biggest protests we have seen in Australia with sufficient to shake the Government of the day to their boots.  The Moratorium protests prompted the end of Australia's commitment to South Vietnam and the Iraqi War ones made the Government unfortunately hold it's course and saw us become involved in the invasion of Iraq.  There were over two hundred thousand in the Moratorium protests and as nearly as many in the anti-Iraqi war ones. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::) Did they do all that while only being a minority Brian? Remember, you are the one that made an issue of it, not me. Do try to remember the point. Have you ever seen the majority of the population turn up to a protest Brian? Have you, Freediver?  No, of course not.  However, significantly large minorities turned up to the Moratorium marches to make the Government change it's mind.  When you see several hundred thousand people turn up to protest, you of course  you think about what you are doing.  Now, how many turned up to the pro-Hamas rally again?  100, hey?  That's really going make the Government think twice about it's policies, now isn't it?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

No. As I made clear, I think your point about the Muslim protest only being a minority was vapid spineless apologetics on your part, and you have been struggling to even understand the discussion since.

John Smith wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 5:09pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 9:41am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 3:09pm: So, no one in the last decade, Freediver?  Gee, how far back do you have to troll to find evidence, hey?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Are you saying Islam has changed in the last decade, or is this just more spineless apologetics? your opinion changed over the last decade FD despite islam not changing. I even found some old posts of you supporting Islam ( was shocked). Are you special in that only you can change your mind?

I am not a religion John. You have failed again.

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 11:55am:

Australian Muslims celebrating the slaughter of Jewish civilians at a music festival: https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSNF4SRwX/

There were people from many countries who were probably not Jewish who were slaughtered there. People from over half a dozen countries. There were Thai farmhands killed and captured.

The music festival was organised by Brazilians.

They claimed that dead near naked German girl in the back of the truck was IDF her family says that isn't true.

Hamas is considered a terrorist group in Australia we can say these muslims support terrorism.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 5:59pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 11:55am: Australian Muslims celebrating the slaughter of Jewish civilians at a music festival: https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSNF4SRwX/ There were people from many countries who were probably not Jewish who were slaughtered there. People from over half a dozen countries. There were Thai farmhands killed and captured. The music festival was organised by Brazilians. They claimed that dead near naked German girl in the back of the truck was IDF her family says that isn't true. Hamas is considered a terrorist group in Australia we can say these muslims support terrorism.

Of course they support terrorism.

Islam - écrasez l'infâme!

https://i.imgflip.com/279cpd.jpg

::) ::)

Allowing pro-Palestine supporters to hijack a tribute for more than 700 people slain by Hamas terrorists and effectively banning Jewish-Australians from attending the lighting of the ­Sydney Opera House in the Israeli flag ­undermines social cohesion and interfaith respect.

It is beyond disturbing that those mourning the deaths and ­injuries inflicted on thousands of Israelis could not have their ­security guaranteed in the heart of Sydney.

It is even worse that they were told to stay at home while hundreds of pro-Palestine activists ignored Anthony Albanese’s advice not to attend the rally


Muslims exploit multiculturalism and open societies to intimidate and terrorise.

Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 9:08pm:

Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Evidently they are, moronic cockwomble. In the West.


No 'political opinion' is allowed to be expressed in Hamas or other Muslim controlled areas. It is is always one way with totalitarian bastards like Muslims, Nazis, Stalinists, Maoist, Bbwianesque mongs.


But this needs to be pointed out only to complete hostile morons like you, Bbwian.

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 9:43am:

...Actually, the one ideology that has killed more people than any is atheist. There is nothing more dangerous than someone who wants to control what you think, and who sincerely believes they are doing it for your own good.

Okay... firstly, atheism is not an "ideology".  This
indicates to me that you don't really understand the
concept of the individual, atheistic state of mind.

In fact, atheism is the exact opposite of an ideology;
it has no specific opinions or beliefs or dogma that are
characteristic of an individual, group, or culture.  For
example, conservatism, communism, environmentalism,
socialism, corporatism, fascism, and Marxism are all
common ideologies. 

Each of those adherents can be an atheist—which
means that, effectively, each of them follows a
different ideology.

And of course theism is most definitely an ideology.

—I'd also be interested in exactly which global and/or
territorial wars have been fought in the name of, or for
the cause of atheism.     Half a dozen will do.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 9:08pm:

Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian?

I just watched a compilation of videos on the NYT site, from the massacre in Sderot, Israel. It is required viewing to understand the murderous stupidity of Islam. People like Ross and Smith will justify it somehow, probably with more of their bogus moral equivelence and anti-America/West/Israel propaganda, as if Muzzzlums are just like us.

Sheer horror’: Babies, children murdered

Hamas militants allegedly murdered at least 40 babies and children in a single town, with some of them found beheaded.

https://www.news.com.au/world/missiles-rain-down-on-city-after-hamas-deadline-as-violence-with-israel-continues-to-escalate/news-story/372afa93a795624d8bec1c58d54146d8

issuevoter wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 7:05am:

I just watched a compilation of videos on the NYT site, from the massacre in Sderot, Israel. It is required viewing to understand the murderous stupidity of Islam. People like Ross and Smith will justify it somehow, probably with more of their bogus moral equivelence and anti-America/West/Israel propaganda, as if Muzzzlums are just like us.

Hamas = ISIS

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 6:52am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:08pm: Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian?

Do you consider scaring the Muslims off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively protest Israeli excesses and Palestinians slaughtered by Israeli soldiers, to be merely, "expressing an opinion", Freediver because that is what you other islamophobes are saying?

When a Moslem comes before a Jew.
He must come without Nation and Empire.
He must come upon his knees begging to be saved!

...just like how Moslems demand the same of Christians.

I think it's the End Times -
the final battle is at Armageddon in Israel
according to the Bible.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:

I think it's the End Times - the final battle is at Armageddon in Israel according to the Bible.

Translation: GOBBLE GOBBLE PER-KURK!!! :P

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 12:58pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 6:52am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:08pm: Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian? Do you consider scaring the Muslims off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively protest Israeli excesses and Palestinians slaughtered by Israeli soldiers, to be merely, "expressing an opinion", Freediver because that is what you other islamophobes are saying?

You are confused Brian. Why are you always so eager to support Muslims when they carry on like this?

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/andrew-bolt/jewish-community-warned-to-avoid-opera-house-while-propalestine-rally-takes-place/video/a956a4b370abd3ee189bdca5b7b21b7f


Quote:

Jewish community warned to avoid Opera House while pro-Palestine rally takes place Australian Jewish Association President David Adler says the Jewish community has been warned to stay away from Sydney’s CBD tonight over the risk of being identified as Jewish in front of pro-Palestinian protestors. Mr Adler said an email was sent to the Jewish community warning them to stay out of the city of Sydney. “We’ve seen one or two Jewish people who turned up early, who have been taken away by police because they carried an Israeli flag,” Mr Adler told Sky News host Andrew Bolt. “An email went around to the Jewish community warning us to stay out of the city of Sydney tonight, to stay away from the Town Hall area, to stay away from the Opera House area. “We would be at risk if we were identified as Jewish in Sydney.”

They are not happy in Gaza.
They are not happy in Egypt.
They are not happy in Libya.
They are not happy in Morocco.
They are not happy in Iran.
They are not happy in Iraq.
They are not happy in Yemen.
They are not happy in Afghanistan.
They are not happy in Pakistan.
They are not happy in Syria.
They are not happy in Lebanon.

SO WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?

They are happy in Australia.
They are happy in Canada.
They are happy in England.
They are happy in France.
They are happy in Italy.
They are happy in Germany.
They are happy in Sweden.
They are happy in the USA.
They are happy in Norway.
They are happy in Holland.
They are happy in Denmark.

Basically they are happy in every country that is not Muslim and unhappy in every country that is.

AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?

Not Islam. Not their leadership.Not themselves.

THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN.

freediver wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 6:52am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:08pm: Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian?

You may've missed my question directed at you mate.


Quote:

I'd also be interested in exactly which global and/or territorial wars have been fought in the name of, or for the cause of atheism.     Half a dozen will do.

   Or are you maybe unable to think of any?    ;)

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 11:15pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 6:52am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:08pm: Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian? You may've missed my question directed at you mate. Quote: I'd also be interested in exactly which global and/or territorial wars have been fought in the name of, or for the cause of atheism.     Half a dozen will do.    Or are you maybe unable to think of any?    ;)

Lemme see:

1789 French revolution and subsequent Jacobin terror and Napoleonic wars
1871 French Commune
1917 Russian revolution and subsequent civil war and Stalinist terror
Communist take-overs in a number of countries after 1945
Chinese civil war and subsequent Maoist terror and  Cultural Revolution
Vietnamese civil war between North and South
Cambodian civil war and Pol Pot terror
Shining Path's "People's War" and all sorts of other guerilla wars by communists



Will these do?

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 11:15pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 6:52am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:08pm: Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian? You may've missed my question directed at you mate. Quote: I'd also be interested in exactly which global and/or territorial wars have been fought in the name of, or for the cause of atheism.     Half a dozen will do.    Or are you maybe unable to think of any?    ;)

Communism.

Islam Downgraded To Religion Of Mostly Peace

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 12:58pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 6:52am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:08pm: Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian? Do you consider scaring the Muslims off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively protest Israeli excesses and Palestinians slaughtered by Israeli soldiers, to be merely, "expressing an opinion", Freediver because that is what you other islamophobes are saying?

Hamas Islamists murdered, raped, beheaded Jewish civilians on Saturday. You are excusing them, spineless worm.
You are siding with Hamas who prevented Jews from mourning their dead in Sydney and staged a supporting rally for the murdering, raping savages for Allah. You are like them, despicable worm, spineless apologist for terrorism and murder, ya drooling shite.

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 7:25am:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 11:15pm: freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 6:52am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:08pm: Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian? You may've missed my question directed at you mate. Quote: I'd also be interested in exactly which global and/or territorial wars have been fought in the name of, or for the cause of atheism.     Half a dozen will do.    Or are you maybe unable to think of any?    ;) Lemme see: 1789 French revolution and subsequent Jacobin terror and Napoleonic wars 1871 French Commune 1917 Russian revolution and subsequent civil war and Stalinist terror Communist take-overs in a number of countries after 1945 Chinese civil war and subsequent Maoist terror and  Cultural Revolution Vietnamese civil war between North and South Cambodian civil war and Pol Pot terror Shining Path's "People's War" and all sorts of other guerilla wars by communists Will these do?

Nope.  None originated or were catalysed solely
in the cause of atheism or in the name of atheism.

You'll have to try harder.    8-)

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 12:05am:

Frank wrote on Oct 12th, 2023 at 7:25am: AusGeoff wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 11:15pm: freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 6:52am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:08pm: Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian? You may've missed my question directed at you mate. Quote: I'd also be interested in exactly which global and/or territorial wars have been fought in the name of, or for the cause of atheism.     Half a dozen will do.    Or are you maybe unable to think of any?    ;) Lemme see: 1789 French revolution and subsequent Jacobin terror and Napoleonic wars 1871 French Commune 1917 Russian revolution and subsequent civil war and Stalinist terror Communist take-overs in a number of countries after 1945 Chinese civil war and subsequent Maoist terror and  Cultural Revolution Vietnamese civil war between North and South Cambodian civil war and Pol Pot terror Shining Path's "People's War" and all sorts of other guerilla wars by communists Will these do? Nope.  None originated or were catalysed solely in the cause of atheism or in the name of atheism. You'll have to try harder.    8-)

And yet atheist causes have still killed more people than any other, despite their historical rarity. The fact that they can't even be bothered giving an excuse doesn't really take away from that.

The fact that you are so eager to repeat the mistakes of the past just shows how dangerous atheist causes can be. You are so smugly assured of your own righteousness that you think nothing of demanding that atheism be imposed on everyone else for their own good. That's when the killing starts. If any other ideologue even hinted at what you do, they would be howled down as a dangerous extremist, yet when atheists do it it they somehow manage to convince themselves it is entirely normal.

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 12:05am:

Frank wrote on Oct 12th, 2023 at 7:25am: AusGeoff wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 11:15pm: freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 6:52am: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:08pm: Aren't Muslims allowed to express a political opinion, Soren?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Do you consider scaring the Jews off the streets of Sydney, so they could not collectively mourn all the Jews slaughtered by other Muslim terrorists, to be merely "expressing an opinion" Brian? You may've missed my question directed at you mate. Quote: I'd also be interested in exactly which global and/or territorial wars have been fought in the name of, or for the cause of atheism.     Half a dozen will do.    Or are you maybe unable to think of any?    ;) Lemme see: 1789 French revolution and subsequent Jacobin terror and Napoleonic wars 1871 French Commune 1917 Russian revolution and subsequent civil war and Stalinist terror Communist take-overs in a number of countries after 1945 Chinese civil war and subsequent Maoist terror and  Cultural Revolution Vietnamese civil war between North and South Cambodian civil war and Pol Pot terror Shining Path's "People's War" and all sorts of other guerilla wars by communists Will these do? Nope.  None originated or were catalysed solely in the cause of atheism or in the name of atheism. You'll have to try harder.    8-)

;D
Cute attempt to smuggle in that little word, Guff.

Apparently if an atheist happens to be angry about something other than religion at the same time he is slaughtering religious people, it has nothing to do with Atheism.

freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:20am:

...And yet atheist causes have still killed more people than any other, despite their historical rarity. The fact that they can't even be bothered giving an excuse doesn't really take away from that.

To support that claim, you'll need to provide verifiable
citations.  I couldn't find any confirmatory references.
At any rate you're (deliberately?) missing the point that
I was making—that religion and its cause has, historically,
started more wars (which are still ongoing today) than
any supposed atheistic cause.

Name me one current war raging today whereby one
group of atheists is fighting another group of atheists.
You can't, because it's never happened.


freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:20am:

The fact that you are so eager to repeat the mistakes of the past just shows how dangerous atheist causes can be.

Once again—based on this comment—as I suggested
earlier, atheism does not have an enabling "cause". 
It's nothing more than a personal state of mind held
by an individual.  There is no "group-think" or doctrine
or book of rules, or places of worshipful gatherings, or
"wise men" telling us what to do with our lives.           


freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:20am:

You are so smugly assured of your own righteousness that you think nothing of demanding that atheism be imposed on everyone else for their own good.

Well, being "smug"—or not—about one's state of mind
really has nothing to do with this argument.  Good try
at slipping in an ad hominem though LOL.

Anyway... no atheist, including me, would ever
"demand" that atheism be "imposed" on everyone. 
We don't offer absurd public "prayers" during national
tragedies, or "pray" for children afflicted with cancer,
or knock on people's doors trying to convince them
that "God is the way".  Even the Australian parliament
still has the antiquated, irrelevant, so-called "Lord's
Prayer" recited at its every opening session!  Welcome
back to the 1600s!


freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2023 at 8:20am:

That's when the killing starts. If any other ideologue even hinted at what you do, they would be howled down as a dangerous extremist, yet when atheists do it it they somehow manage to convince themselves it is entirely normal.

I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean by this.  Can
you clarify further what the "at what you do" claim means?

It's the Catholics, the Protestants, the Muslims, the
Jews, the the Sikhs, and even the  Buddhists who've
initiated numerous wars, driven—of course—by their
religious views, and attempts to overthrow and/or
abolish opposing religions.

So, again, can you name me even one single war started
solely in the name of, or for the cause of atheism?

Wakeley is merely Islam’s latest attack against Christianity

The guilt or innocence of the 16-year-old accused of stabbing Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel and three others at Wakeley’s Assyrian Church of Christ the Good Shepherd last week will ultimately be tested in court, as will that of any accomplices. But what the incident confirms, were further confirmation needed, is the continued vehemence of Islamism’s hostility to Christianity.

Islamist attacks on churches are scarcely isolated incidents. In France alone there were more than 600 attacks on Christian places of worship in 2020, culminating in the murder of three parishioners at Nice’s Basilica of Notre Dame by an Islamist carrying a Koran.

Meanwhile, violence against Christians remains endemic in the Arab Middle East, where the share of Christians in the population has, over the course of the past century, collapsed from around 14 per cent to barely 3 per cent.

Seen in the longer term, the eradication of Christianity from its regions of birth appears even more starkly. In AD732, when Islam consolidated its hegemony over what later became the Arab lands, Christians were by far the majority of the population in the Oriental patriarchates of Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem, as well as in North Africa.

Now, after centuries of persecution, those ancient churches are becoming an insignificant presence, with their Middle Eastern congregations accounting for less than 1 per cent of Christians worldwide.

Whether that persecution has a clear basis in the Koran is controversial. It is, however, indisputable that the Koran directly condemns Christianity, claiming that Christians “accept two gods”, will not “tolerate you (Muslims) until you follow their religion” and wilfully lie about the Bible.

Moreover, the so-called “verse of the sword” – which, according to many Islamic scholars, abrogates the Koran’s more tolerant affirmations – enjoins Muslims to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them”, sparing them only if they “repent, perform the prayer and pay alms”.

And according to a tradition authoritatively reported by Malik ibn Anas (711-795), the Prophet’s last words were “May God fight the Jews and the Christians! Two religions will not remain in the land of the Arabs.”

It is therefore unsurprising that the Muslim conquest was viewed by Mesopotamian Christians as an apocalyptic disaster, with the first substantial Christian commentary warning that there is “no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men’s blood”.

The construction of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, with the explicit denunciation of Christian belief in its magnificent gold leaf inscriptions, merely heightened their fears, which were confirmed when sweeping restrictions on Christian worship, along with deliberately humiliating rules of conduct and punitive taxes, were formalised in the mid-9th century.
...

After increasing in each decade, that violence reached a peak in the period immediately prior to, during and just after the short-lived rule of the Hamas-affiliated Muslim Brotherhood, when at least 150 Copts were murdered, many thousands rendered homeless, and Coptic churches and monasteries stormed – with 64 churches being attacked, and 23 incinerated, in a single day.

It is therefore unsurprising that 100,000 Copts fled Egypt between March and September 2011 alone; and since then the haemorrhage has continued, as have the murders, the kidnappings, rapes and forced conversions of young women, the destruction of homes and the coerced evacuations of Coptic villages.

Nor is that pattern confined to Egypt: its latest manifestation is the expulsion from their ancestral home of Karabakh’s entire Christian population, and the demolition of one of the Caucasus’s most iconic churches, by the Muslim government of Azerbaijan – all without a peep being heard from our keffiyeh-touting protesters.
...
Bernard Lewis famously stated some years ago that “for Christians and Muslims alike, tolerance is a new virtue and intolerance a new crime”. The great historian was only half right: Christianity has changed, but tolerance has scarcely made its mark in the Islamic world, and when it has, it has invariably struggled. With religious and ethnic diversity – and hence genuine religious freedom – vanishing in the Muslim countries, while Australia’s diversity inexorably rises, our much vaunted multiculturalism cannot be an excuse for tolerating a fanaticism that, still today, so readily morphs into murder.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/wakeley-is-merely-islams-latest-attack-against-christianity/news-story/adf8bbb63d2669b2d221e5cca7a2abdd

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2023 at 9:43am:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 1:45am: Bobby. wrote on Oct 8th, 2023 at 2:59pm: Islam is the cause of the conflict  - I agree ban Islam. If I were "King" of the world, I'd ban all religions. Religions—all of them—have caused more deaths than WWI and WWII combined. Actually, the one ideology that has killed more people than any is atheist.

Mere assertion; everyone in areas of the former Roman  empire from Constantine on - and later, the Islamic empire - was a believer of one stripe another.

Do you know the number killed in wars  in that period, before the enlightenment - and Marx - established atheism as permissible? ("Religion is the opiate of the the people").   


Quote:

There is nothing more dangerous than someone who wants to control what you think, and who sincerely believes they are doing it for your own good.

Maybe, but what naturally competive, self-interested individuals want to think might also prove problematic, when a majority are only thinking about themselves. 

"All must submit to rule of law, for all to be free": Cicero.   

The CCP managed to starve 50 million people to death with a single "administrative error". Between them, China and Russia have an enormous death toll.

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

The CCP managed to starve 50 million people to death with a single "administrative error". Between them, China and Russia have an enormous death toll.

Er.....you forgot to answer the post to which you imagined you were replying,  repeated  here for your convenience:

FD:There is nothing more dangerous than someone who wants to control what you think, and who sincerely believes they are doing it for your own good.

TGD: Maybe, but what naturally competive, self-interested individuals want to think might also prove problematic, when a majority are only thinking about themselves.

"All must submit to rule of law, for all to be free": Cicero.   

So of course you divert to Mao's failures; do you really want to compare Russia and China under Stalin and Mao with the death toll from 2000 years of religious conflict? 

Another way to put it: the only thing more dangerous than a Nazi trying to exterminate you is a communist trying to help you.

Muslims?

This article nails the cause of our problems -
the stabbing attack in a Sydney church, censorship and mass immigration:

https://richardsonpost.com/davidhiscox/35739/australia-is-an-unsuccessful-multicultural-dictatorship/

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2024 at 2:01pm:

Muslims? This article nails the cause of our problems - the stabbing attack in a Sydney church, censorship and mass immigration: https://richardsonpost.com/davidhiscox/35739/australia-is-an-unsuccessful-multicultural-dictatorship/

Quote:

With religious and ethnic diversity – and hence genuine religious freedom – vanishing in the Muslim countries, while Australia’s diversity inexorably rises, our much vaunted multiculturalism cannot be an excuse for tolerating a fanaticism that, still today, so readily morphs into murder.

islam is involved in almost all conflicts

they are the common denominator

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2024 at 12:48pm:

Another way to put it: the only thing more dangerous than a Nazi trying to exterminate you is a communist trying to help you.

Wrong, mainstream neoclassical, freemarket orthodoxy is at least as dangerous; and you need to cite "communist" policies you have in mind.

One thing for certain: free markets create winners and losers, and entrench poverty, whereas current CCP policy is aiming to achieve  common prosperity by mid-century.   

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26^th, 2024 at 5:21pm:

islam is involved in almost all conflicts they are the common denominator

And Islam is based on the OT prophets of 'the One True God' (who authorized genocide) .... we have a problem....

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 3:11pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26th, 2024 at 5:21pm: islam is involved in almost all conflicts they are the common denominator And Islam is based on the OT prophets of 'the One True God' (who authorized genocide) .... we have a problem....

:D :D ;D ;D

BINGO!
Even Islam is the Jews' fault!!   :D :D

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 3:38pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 3:11pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26th, 2024 at 5:21pm: islam is involved in almost all conflicts they are the common denominator And Islam is based on the OT prophets of 'the One True God' (who authorized genocide) .... we have a problem.... :D :D ;D ;D BINGO! Even Islam is the Jews' fault!!   :D :D

Correct.

Muhammad should have looked East to the old Persian  religion for inspiration re the "One True God", namely  Ahura Mazda;  a good God  as opposed to "jealous Jehovah"....

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 3:54pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 3:38pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 3:11pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26th, 2024 at 5:21pm: islam is involved in almost all conflicts they are the common denominator And Islam is based on the OT prophets of 'the One True God' (who authorized genocide) .... we have a problem.... :D :D ;D ;D BINGO! Even Islam is the Jews' fault!!   :D :D Correct. Muhammad should have looked East to the old Persian  religion for inspiration re the "One True God", namely  Ahura Mazda;  a good God  as opposed to "jealous Jehovah"....

:D :D :D

The Jews didn't let Mohammed look for a good Mazda.  They MADE him come up with the ridiculous, stupid mish-mash of Islam insted of giving him a government job with a guaranteed above poverty wage. We'd have common prosperity by now. But no, the Jews HAD TO make Mohammed into a priapic warlord and made him imagine he was the final prophet of the Moon God Allah.

Oy- vey!!

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 4:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 3:54pm: Frank wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 3:38pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 3:11pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26th, 2024 at 5:21pm: islam is involved in almost all conflicts they are the common denominator And Islam is based on the OT prophets of 'the One True God' (who authorized genocide) .... we have a problem.... :D :D ;D ;D BINGO! Even Islam is the Jews' fault!!   :D :D Correct. Muhammad should have looked East to the old Persian  religion for inspiration re the "One True God", namely  Ahura Mazda;  a good God  as opposed to "jealous Jehovah".... :D :D :D The Jews didn't let Mohammed look for a good Mazda.

Wrong of course; he was responsible for adopting  the ancient bronze age "jealous" god of the Jews.   


Quote:

They MADE him come up with the ridiculous, stupid mish-mash of Islam insted of giving him a government job with a guaranteed above poverty wage.

Wrong again.... no explanation needed for your error
this time......


Quote:

We'd have common prosperity by now.

Not necessarily....


Quote:

But no, the Jews HAD TO make Mohammed into a priapic warlord and made him imagine he was the final prophet of the Moon God Allah. Oy- vey!!

Wrong again, M had free will to choose a scripture, or revelation, for his new One True God religion for the Arabs.  Apart from the accident of hearing the tales of the the OT prophets, and going with their revelations. 

btw, Judaism  (ie, the OT scripture) only survives today  because Constantine adopted Christianity in the 4th century AD, along with the OT  -  because many Christian  converts were Jews who demanded the Jewish 'bible' be retained as a prologue to the Christian Bible, given that Jesus often referred to OT law (though Marcion rejected the OT entirely, as being antithetical to a religion of the "Prince of Peace").

Remember too,  Cyrus the Great, following the good God  of Zoroastrianism, 'A. Mazda' (sic),  freed the Jews from the  Babylonian captivity.  Modern Islam would  have been completely different with a mazda.... :-)

 

I don't understand how  there can be an all knowing "God" and "free will". How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it? The entity knows everything, therefore your future decisions are not excluded from that and known. In fact all future "actions" of every existing "thing" are already known by an "All Knowing God". lIf all your future decisions are already known, by any entity, then there is no actual "Free Will", it's already mapped and known. Unless of course even "God" doesn't actually know everything!! That of course raises all sorts of entertaining possibilities. I mean perhaps humans really were created in a particular "Gods" image just as "they" say and rather than being perfect and all-knowing, that "God" is  imperfect and still learning!!!! ;)

goosecat wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 5:45pm:

I don't understand how  there can be an all knowing "God" and "free will".

I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome.

If this universe doesn't progress, God can always create another one. 


Quote:

How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?

 

Yes, that's a contradiction.

Perhaps God is concerned to see if good can triumph over evil, in a conscious 'flesh and blood' world.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 6:00pm:

I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome. Quote: How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?   Yes, that's a contradiction.

Without God knowing the outcome you say. How can an all knowing god not know? It's more likely IMHO, the ever expanding "Universe" and it's various "Unknowns" apply to all. including "God". Nothing, knows everything and indeed for "Free Will" to truly exist, must be the case.

Page Flip

goosecat wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 6:09pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:00pm: I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome. Quote: How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?   Yes, that's a contradiction. Without God knowing the outcome you say. How can an all knowing god not know? It's more likely IMHO, the ever expanding "Universe" and it's various "Unknowns" apply to all. including "God". Nothing, knows everything and indeed for "Free Will" to truly exist, must be the case.

Yes, that's what I said.

But a struggle between  good and evil is very real, perhaps the creator god has his eye on it, without knowing the outcome. ...

I think the struggle between "good"and "evil" in as much as the words are constructs of our own making is as debatable as the very definitions one might apply to each word. Is the Black hole evil for swallowing all around? Should not the "Creator" of the very fabric of all things, bare some responsibility for its outcomes? If we accept the creator "God" is not perfect and all knowing, does that not mean a level of "Good and "Evil" must also exist in the "Creator".

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 6:33pm:

goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:09pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:00pm: I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome. Quote: How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?   Yes, that's a contradiction. Without God knowing the outcome you say. How can an all knowing god not know? It's more likely IMHO, the ever expanding "Universe" and it's various "Unknowns" apply to all. including "God". Nothing, knows everything and indeed for "Free Will" to truly exist, must be the case. Yes, that's what I said. But a struggle between  good and evil is very real, perhaps the creator god has his eye on it, without knowing the outcome. ...

Is the party responsible for starving 50 million of their own people to death on the side of good or evil?

goosecat wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 7:21pm:

I think the struggle between "good"and "evil" in as much as the words are constructs of our own making is as debatable as the very definitions one might apply to each word.

Morality, justice and fairness - we all agree these concepts are attractive, yes?
....even though they are indeed inventions of the human mind.

What definitions do you want to put on these words?


Quote:

Is the Black hole evil for swallowing all around?

No, that's the structure of the physical world (including earthquakes, and tornadoes).

Good and evil refers to human behaviour and morality.   


Quote:

Should not the "Creator" of the very fabric of all things, bare some responsibility for its outcomes?

Well ..."If I were God, I would weep for creating this world": Schopenhauer.

....a pessimistic view;  if you are fortunate enough to love life and nature - but if you were an inmate of a concentration camp....

So to your question: is a creator responsible for his creation, when he doesn't know the outcome?

I would say -  not necessarily; eg, the reason for the creation is a factor, in 'responsibility'.   

But good and evil remains to be confronted by men.


Quote:

If we accept the creator "God" is not perfect and all knowing, does that not mean a level of "Good and "Evil" must also exist in the "Creator".

No, see above. 

freediver wrote on Apr 29^th, 2024 at 9:23pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:33pm: goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:09pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:00pm: I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome. Quote: How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?   Yes, that's a contradiction. Without God knowing the outcome you say. How can an all knowing god not know? It's more likely IMHO, the ever expanding "Universe" and it's various "Unknowns" apply to all. including "God". Nothing, knows everything and indeed for "Free Will" to truly exist, must be the case. Yes, that's what I said. But a struggle between  good and evil is very real, perhaps the creator god has his eye on it, without knowing the outcome. ... Is the party responsible for starving 50 million of their own people to death on the side of good or evil?

Responsibility under  Mao, yes.

'Good and evil' in this case is more like the loss of life in an earthquake or tornado - except rather than being an 'act of God' (sic) , it was an unintended consequence of the Party's collectivist policy. 

As opposed to the evil of the  IDF's revenge-driven genocide in Gaza, in an ongoing conflict based on the bungled Partition of Palestine. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 9:23pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:33pm: goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:09pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:00pm: I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome. Quote: How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?   Yes, that's a contradiction. Without God knowing the outcome you say. How can an all knowing god not know? It's more likely IMHO, the ever expanding "Universe" and it's various "Unknowns" apply to all. including "God". Nothing, knows everything and indeed for "Free Will" to truly exist, must be the case. Yes, that's what I said. But a struggle between  good and evil is very real, perhaps the creator god has his eye on it, without knowing the outcome. ... Is the party responsible for starving 50 million of their own people to death on the side of good or evil? Responsibility under  Mao, yes. 'Good and evil' in this case is more like the loss of life in an earthquake or tornado - except rather than being an 'act of God' (sic) , it was an unintended consequence of the Party's collectivist policy.  As opposed to the evil of the  IDF's revenge-driven genocide in Gaza, in an ongoing conflict based on the bungled Partition of Palestine.

When did the CCP stop being evil?

freediver wrote on Apr 30^th, 2024 at 12:57pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:56pm: freediver wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 9:23pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:33pm: goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:09pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:00pm: I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome. Quote: How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?   Yes, that's a contradiction. Without God knowing the outcome you say. How can an all knowing god not know? It's more likely IMHO, the ever expanding "Universe" and it's various "Unknowns" apply to all. including "God". Nothing, knows everything and indeed for "Free Will" to truly exist, must be the case. Yes, that's what I said. But a struggle between  good and evil is very real, perhaps the creator god has his eye on it, without knowing the outcome. ... Is the party responsible for starving 50 million of their own people to death on the side of good or evil? Responsibility under  Mao, yes. 'Good and evil' in this case is more like the loss of life in an earthquake or tornado - except rather than being an 'act of God' (sic) , it was an unintended consequence of the Party's collectivist policy.  As opposed to the evil of the  IDF's revenge-driven genocide in Gaza, in an ongoing conflict based on the bungled Partition of Palestine.  When did the CCP stop being evil?

Low IQ, or poor comprehension skills? Read the post again.

But for your ideological-crippled, low IQ brain, the answer to that question is: the CCP  stopped being "evil"  from Deng on.

Unlike the revenge-driven, genocidal IDF, ever since the botched partition of Palestine.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30^th, 2024 at 1:42pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:57pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:56pm: freediver wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 9:23pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:33pm: goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:09pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:00pm: I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome. Quote: How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?   Yes, that's a contradiction. Without God knowing the outcome you say. How can an all knowing god not know? It's more likely IMHO, the ever expanding "Universe" and it's various "Unknowns" apply to all. including "God". Nothing, knows everything and indeed for "Free Will" to truly exist, must be the case. Yes, that's what I said. But a struggle between  good and evil is very real, perhaps the creator god has his eye on it, without knowing the outcome. ... Is the party responsible for starving 50 million of their own people to death on the side of good or evil? Responsibility under  Mao, yes. 'Good and evil' in this case is more like the loss of life in an earthquake or tornado - except rather than being an 'act of God' (sic) , it was an unintended consequence of the Party's collectivist policy.  As opposed to the evil of the  IDF's revenge-driven genocide in Gaza, in an ongoing conflict based on the bungled Partition of Palestine.  When did the CCP stop being evil? Low IQ, or poor comprehension skills? Read the post again. But for your ideological-crippled, low IQ brain, the answer to that question is: the CCP  stopped being "evil"  from Deng on. Unlike the revenge-driven, genocidal IDF, ever since the botched partition of Palestine.

So the CCP starving 50 million people to death with an administrative error is an act of God, not and act of people, and therefor cannot be described as either good or evil?

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30^th, 2024 at 12:43pm:

goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 7:21pm: I think the struggle between "good"and "evil" in as much as the words are constructs of our own making is as debatable as the very definitions one might apply to each word. Morality, justice and fairness - we all agree these concepts are attractive, yes?

All about INDIVIDUAL responsibility.  They are not merely  'attractive' parrot, you are not in a shop.  They are central to being human - which is done individually, in company with others. You are an individual, idiotic little blowhard, you are not the collective.

YOU, stupid little bozo, make individual, free choices every minute of the day. Including when you come on here spouting moroninic nonsense about 'freedom ideology'. 

Justice, morality, fairness - ALL things individuals must adhere to. Freely. You cannot be forced to be just, moral, fair. These are individual acts, freely chosen. There is no other way to be just, moral, fair BUT freely.

Frank wrote on Apr 30^th, 2024 at 9:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:43pm: goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 7:21pm: I think the struggle between "good"and "evil" in as much as the words are constructs of our own making is as debatable as the very definitions one might apply to each word. Morality, justice and fairness - we all agree these concepts are attractive, yes? All about INDIVIDUAL responsibility.  They are not merely  'attractive' parrot, you are not in a shop.

(Sigh, the patience I need to enlighten Frank).

Morality, justice and fairness - human constructs - exist whether individuals are responsible or not, or whether individuals are survival of the fittest ideologues/goons  or not.   


Quote:

They are central to being human - which is done individually, in company with others. You are an individual, idiotic little blowhard, you are not the collective.

(sigh, my burden is unending while dealing with Frank).

1. Being human isn't "done individually", it's "done" by all humans in an infinite variety of ways, including from good to evil.

2. Indeed I am not the collective, I am an individual like you; the difference between us is I believe in morality, justice and fairness as the basis for rule of law to which the collective (all humans) ought to submit, and since even you seem to agree all individuals (the collective)  are attracted to these concepts.


Quote:

YOU, stupid little bozo, make individual, free choices every minute of the day. Including when you come on here spouting moroninic nonsense about 'freedom ideology'.

Indeed I do - patiently trying to explain 'the human condition  to you....and why we are watching the slaughter of other humans every night on TV, as societies try to enforce their own ideas of "morality"and culture  on others.    


Quote:

Justice, morality, fairness - ALL things individuals must adhere to. Freely. You cannot be forced to be just, moral, fair. These are individual acts, freely chosen. There is no other way to be just, moral, fair BUT freely.

Oh dear, the contradiction in that statement is breathtaking: we "MUST" adhere to j,m and f, and we must do it "freely" no less.....no rule of law enforcing j, m, and f required.

See how your opening gambit turned the rest of your post into GIGO?

You really do not understand anything, not even your  own empty slogans, let alone what anyone else says.

Silly parrot is correct.

freediver wrote on Apr 30^th, 2024 at 2:10pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 1:42pm: freediver wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:57pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:56pm: freediver wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 9:23pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:33pm: goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:09pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:00pm: I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome. Quote: How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?   Yes, that's a contradiction. Without God knowing the outcome you say. How can an all knowing god not know? It's more likely IMHO, the ever expanding "Universe" and it's various "Unknowns" apply to all. including "God". Nothing, knows everything and indeed for "Free Will" to truly exist, must be the case. Yes, that's what I said. But a struggle between  good and evil is very real, perhaps the creator god has his eye on it, without knowing the outcome. ... Is the party responsible for starving 50 million of their own people to death on the side of good or evil? Responsibility under  Mao, yes. 'Good and evil' in this case is more like the loss of life in an earthquake or tornado - except rather than being an 'act of God' (sic) , it was an unintended consequence of the Party's collectivist policy.  As opposed to the evil of the  IDF's revenge-driven genocide in Gaza, in an ongoing conflict based on the bungled Partition of Palestine.  When did the CCP stop being evil? Low IQ, or poor comprehension skills? Read the post again. But for your ideological-crippled, low IQ brain, the answer to that question is: the CCP  stopped being "evil"  from Deng on. Unlike the revenge-driven, genocidal IDF, ever since the botched partition of Palestine. So the CCP starving 50 million people to death with an administrative error is an act of God, not and act of people, and therefor cannot be described as either good or evil?

Crippled comprehension from an ideologically crippled brain. 

Here it is again:

Responsibility under  Mao, yes.


We agree Mao was responsible for his collective agricultural-policy disaster in the 60's. 

'Good and evil' in this case is more like the loss of life in an earthquake or tornado - except rather than being an 'act of God' (sic) , it was an unintended consequence of the Party's collectivist policy. 

Note : my text read "except rather than being an act of God"

NOT  your reading  "is an act of god".

You can't even read what was written, perhaps neither low IQ or fraudulent, just afraid to deal with the argument and misreadig it.   


As opposed to the evil of the  IDF's revenge-driven genocide in Gaza, in an ongoing conflict based on the bungled Partition of Palestine. 

Now...that IS evil...

Frank wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 7:58pm:

You really do not understand anything, not even your  own empty slogans, let alone what anyone else says. Silly parrot is correct.

Frank, you better hope no adjudicator is judging this debate; the above is not debate.

Just as a mediator/judge is required to define morality, justice and fairness, to enable rule of law.   

thegreatdivide wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 8:07pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 2:10pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 1:42pm: freediver wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:57pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:56pm: freediver wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 9:23pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:33pm: goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:09pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 6:00pm: I think we have to accept 'God'  can grant free will to men, without God knowing the outcome. Quote: How can an all knowing God, whom genuinely knows everything before during and after, exist without knowing every decision before you make it?   Yes, that's a contradiction. Without God knowing the outcome you say. How can an all knowing god not know? It's more likely IMHO, the ever expanding "Universe" and it's various "Unknowns" apply to all. including "God". Nothing, knows everything and indeed for "Free Will" to truly exist, must be the case. Yes, that's what I said. But a struggle between  good and evil is very real, perhaps the creator god has his eye on it, without knowing the outcome. ... Is the party responsible for starving 50 million of their own people to death on the side of good or evil? Responsibility under  Mao, yes. 'Good and evil' in this case is more like the loss of life in an earthquake or tornado - except rather than being an 'act of God' (sic) , it was an unintended consequence of the Party's collectivist policy.  As opposed to the evil of the  IDF's revenge-driven genocide in Gaza, in an ongoing conflict based on the bungled Partition of Palestine.  When did the CCP stop being evil? Low IQ, or poor comprehension skills? Read the post again. But for your ideological-crippled, low IQ brain, the answer to that question is: the CCP  stopped being "evil"  from Deng on. Unlike the revenge-driven, genocidal IDF, ever since the botched partition of Palestine. So the CCP starving 50 million people to death with an administrative error is an act of God, not and act of people, and therefor cannot be described as either good or evil? Crippled comprehension from an ideologically crippled brain.  Here it is again: Responsibility under  Mao, yes. We agree Mao was responsible for his collective agricultural-policy disaster in the 60's.  'Good and evil' in this case is more like the loss of life in an earthquake or tornado - except rather than being an 'act of God' (sic) , it was an unintended consequence of the Party's collectivist policy.  Note : my text read "except rather than being an act of God" NOT  your reading  "is an act of god". You can't even read what was written, perhaps neither low IQ or fraudulent, just afraid to deal with the argument and misreadig it.    As opposed to the evil of the  IDF's revenge-driven genocide in Gaza, in an ongoing conflict based on the bungled Partition of Palestine.  Now...that IS evil...

So the CCP is not evil because they did not intend to starve 50 million people to death, they merely failed to care enough to stop it?

Suppose you built a robot to take people's hats off and set it loose, and it walked up to the first person and removed their head, and you said "whoops, that's an administrative error," then stepped over that corpse and followed it round and said that another 50 million times, once for each head it removed.

Would that be evil, or 'merely' an unintended consequence?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 7:50pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 9:30pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:43pm: goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 7:21pm: I think the struggle between "good"and "evil" in as much as the words are constructs of our own making is as debatable as the very definitions one might apply to each word. Morality, justice and fairness - we all agree these concepts are attractive, yes? All about INDIVIDUAL responsibility.  They are not merely  'attractive' parrot, you are not in a shop. (Sigh, the patience I need to enlighten Frank). Morality, justice and fairness - human constructs - exist whether individuals are responsible or not, or whether individuals are survival of the fittest ideologues/goons  or not.

See??

You do not understand even your own parroting.

Human construct = individuals are responsible.

There is no 'or not' if something is a human construct. 


Anyway, saying that something is a social construct is not saying anything terribly illuminating since every aspect of social life, from history, morality, justice, common prosperity, the CCP, Marxism and all the rest of it are all human constructs.

Morality requires freedom since morality is about freely chosen conduct. That is why animals are not moral or immoral or amoral. They are not free to choose the moral good or justice or fairness.

Quote:

Islam is the cause of the conflict

Islam gets the blame if you guys burn your toast in the morning.

.

Dnarever wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 9:22pm:

Quote: Islam is the cause of the conflict Islam gets the blame if you guys burn your toast in the morning.

Insh'allah.

It's all according to Allah's will, duckwit.

Frank wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 9:24pm:

Dnarever wrote on May 1st, 2024 at 9:22pm: Quote: Islam is the cause of the conflict Islam gets the blame if you guys burn your toast in the morning. Insh'allah. It's all according to Allah's will, duckwit.

Never thought you'd be a willing servant of God, Soren.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 9:54pm:

Frank wrote on May 1st, 2024 at 9:24pm: Dnarever wrote on May 1st, 2024 at 9:22pm: Quote: Islam is the cause of the conflict Islam gets the blame if you guys burn your toast in the morning. Insh'allah. It's all according to Allah's will, duckwit. Never thought you'd be a willing servant of God, Soren.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::)

According to Islam everything that happens is Allahs will including burnt toast.

I don't know why people stick up for this flat earth belief

---

Frank wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 9:24pm:

Dnarever wrote on May 1st, 2024 at 9:22pm: Quote: Islam is the cause of the conflict Islam gets the blame if you guys burn your toast in the morning. Insh'allah. It's all according to Allah's will, duckwit.

No N Furter - it's your cheap toaster.

Baronvonrort wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 9:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 1st, 2024 at 9:54pm: Frank wrote on May 1st, 2024 at 9:24pm: Dnarever wrote on May 1st, 2024 at 9:22pm: Quote: Islam is the cause of the conflict Islam gets the blame if you guys burn your toast in the morning. Insh'allah. It's all according to Allah's will, duckwit. Never thought you'd be a willing servant of God, Soren.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  ::) ::) According to Islam everything that happens is Allahs will including burnt toast. I don't know why people stick up for this flat earth belief

Exactly.  Allah WILLS your toast to be burnt.  Neither the toast nor you have ANY say in the matter.

Bbwian is ISLAMOPHOBIC to even THINK it's a joke. Tsk, tsk  >:( >:(

Frank wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 9:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 1st, 2024 at 7:50pm: Frank wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 9:30pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2024 at 12:43pm: goosecat wrote on Apr 29th, 2024 at 7:21pm: I think the struggle between "good"and "evil" in as much as the words are constructs of our own making is as debatable as the very definitions one might apply to each word. Morality, justice and fairness - we all agree these concepts are attractive, yes? All about INDIVIDUAL responsibility.  They are not merely  'attractive' parrot, you are not in a shop. (Sigh, the patience I need to enlighten Frank). Morality, justice and fairness - human constructs - exist whether individuals are responsible or not, or whether individuals are survival of the fittest ideologues/goons  or not.    See?? You do not understand even your own parroting.

 

Well let's see if you can enlighten me....


Quote:

Human construct = individuals are responsible.

Oh dear. Human construct means invented by humans, ie humans are "responsible for"  the construct, NOT that humans will take responsibility to ensure morality justice and fairness, in the affairs of men. 

You have made the simple-minded mistake of confusing and conflating two different usages of the word 'responsible'.


Quote:

There is no 'or not' if something is a human construct.

You error identified, above.  


Quote:

Anyway, saying that something is a social construct is not saying anything terribly illuminating since every aspect of social life, from history, morality, justice, common prosperity, the CCP, Marxism and all the rest of it are all human constructs.

Wrong again: nature's slaughterhouse, emulated  by humans since the beginning of time,  is not a  human construct, it is the law of the jungle emulated by humans. 


Quote:

Morality requires freedom since morality is about freely chosen conduct.

 

..part of the posited progress in human "consciousness of freedom"; but why are men still slaughtering one another in insane wars?   


Quote:

That is why animals are not moral or immoral or amoral. They are not free to choose the moral good or justice or fairness.

At last,  a correct statement from you.  


But men....?

Allah is responsible for all t the burnt toasts of the world.

Frank wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 10:36pm:

Allah is responsible for all t the burnt toasts of the world.

I'm afraid that's what is known as 'blame shifting', see my previous post. 

Christians against Jews
Moslems against Christians
Now Jews against Moslems.

3 Blind Mice chasing each other's tails.  ::)

Jasin wrote on May 1^st, 2024 at 10:51pm:

Christians against Jews Moslems against Christians Now Jews against Moslems. 3 Blind Mice chasing each other's tails.  ::)

Yes. I like Graps' solution for Jerusalem (...!....) ie, a 'world city' in which the 3 religions live in peace -  actually UN res 181, believe it or not...

But it's too advanced for men who still insist on the "right" (and are granted the 'right' by UNUDHR article 18)  to believe that the Jewish saviour is yet to appear (Jesus was rejected by Jews); that Jesus is God whose kingdom will be established when Jesus returns  (according to Christians - especially the US Christian RW); and that M is the messenger of God, whose Koranic revelation will establish the univeral Islamic  Caliphate.


Time for the UNGA to look at the implications of  the "right" to "freedom of religion".

Of course Islam is the cause of the conflict worldwide.

How many Muslims are under permanent police protection in the West because of death threats against them by Christians, Jews, atheists?
Zero.

How many non-Muslim have been under under police protection in the West because of death threats against them by Muslims?
Many.

How many imams in the West have been beheaded, stabbed by non-Muslims?
Zero

How many priestsand teachers in the West have been beheaded, stabbed by Muslims?
Many

What is the reason for such differences?
Islam

Frank wrote on May 4^th, 2024 at 4:45pm:

Of course Islam is the cause of the conflict worldwide.

What conflict are you referring to?

If the US did not have military bases in muslim lands, and if Israel had not been created (Bin Laden's two main complaints), Islamic terrorism would not exist. 


Quote:

How many Muslims are under permanent police protection in the West because of death threats against them by Christians, Jews, atheists? Zero.

But watch out for white supremacists raising their ugly heads against the pro palestinian protestors in the US.


Quote:

How many non-Muslim have been under under police protection in the West because of death threats against them by Muslims? Many.

Salman Rushdie, can't think of any more;  though all of us are subject to the possibility of terrorist attacks. 


Quote:

How many imams in the West have been beheaded, stabbed by non-Muslims? Zero How many priestsand teachers in the West have been beheaded, stabbed by Muslims? Many What is the reason for such differences? Islam.

But you are not 'pure as snow', as noted above.

.

.

Egypt: Islamist Mobs Attack Christians, Set Fire to Homes
Riots began following rumors that Coptic Christians were planning to build a new church in the village of Al-Fawakher

“The attack occurred after word spread that residents of the village, which is home to 3,000 Christian families, had obtained a permit to construct a church building,” the watchdog International Christian Concern (ICC) reported. According to Islamic Sharia law, non-Muslims, or ‘dhimmis,’ living under the Muslim-rule are not allowed to repair their places of worship, let alone build new ones.

Muslim rioters reportedly had tacit backing from the Egyptian security services. “Despite promises of safety from security forces, the cries of help from the archbishop and the local Coptic community went unanswered as the attack unfolded. Security forces arrived only after the attack, leaving a yet unknown number of Christians to perish in their burning homes,” the ICC added.

Unable to expel Christians as punishment this time around, Muslim neighbors resorted to their second favorite form of punishment for Copts; burning  homes and businesses to the ground while there are women and children inside.

https://twitter.com/themariamwahba/status/1783506551564615767

https://legalinsurrection.com/2024/04/egypt-islamist-mobs-attack-christians-set-fire-to-homes/


Where are the Muslim protests of "Not in our name"?   Nowhere.

Just one more reason why many people, me included, are not buying the Muslim victimhood b.s. Muslims are ruthless persecutors of EVERY minority in their midst.  Yet we let them in, yet we allow them to multiply  and lie about Islamophobia.

Just imagine if the Muslims were really persecuted in the West just as Muslims persecute Christians in Egypt or Pakistan.

Egypt: Islamist Mobs Attack Christians, Set Fire to Homes
Riots began following rumors that Coptic Christians were planning to build a new church in the village of Al-Fawakher

“The attack occurred after word spread that residents of the village, which is home to 3,000 Christian families, had obtained a permit to construct a church building,” the watchdog International Christian Concern (ICC) reported. According to Islamic Sharia law, non-Muslims, or ‘dhimmis,’ living under the Muslim-rule are not allowed to repair their places of worship, let alone build new ones.

Muslim rioters reportedly had tacit backing from the Egyptian security services. “Despite promises of safety from security forces, the cries of help from the archbishop and the local Coptic community went unanswered as the attack unfolded. Security forces arrived only after the attack, leaving a yet unknown number of Christians to perish in their burning homes,” the ICC added.

Unable to expel Christians as punishment this time around, Muslim neighbors resorted to their second favorite form of punishment for Copts; burning  homes and businesses to the ground while there are women and children inside.

https://twitter.com/themariamwahba/status/1783506551564615767

https://legalinsurrection.com/2024/04/egypt-islamist-mobs-attack-christians-set-fire-to-homes/


Where are the Muslim protests of "Not in our name"?   Nowhere.

Just one more reason why many people, me included, are not buying the Muslim victimhood b.s. Muslims are ruthless persecutors of EVERY minority in their midst.  Yet we let them in, yet we allow them to multiply  and lie about Islamophobia.

Just imagine if the Muslims were really persecuted in the West just as Muslims persecute Christians in Egypt or Pakistan.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 5^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Frank wrote on May 4th, 2024 at 4:45pm: Of course Islam is the cause of the conflict worldwide. What conflict are you referring to? If the US did not have military bases in muslim lands, and if Israel had not been created (Bin Laden's two main complaints), Islamic terrorism would not exist.

That is as stupid as to be expected from you, parrot.


Only an idiot and/or a deeply sinister evil bastards would draw a causal justification between the existence of Israel and US bases and the "resulting" blowing up of a Manchester stadium full of teeny bopper.

Mindless stupidity has oblitared every lastt vestige of thought, reason, humanity in your slogan-addled bird brain.

Frank wrote on May 13^th, 2024 at 6:09pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 5th, 2024 at 2:02pm: Frank wrote on May 4th, 2024 at 4:45pm: Of course Islam is the cause of the conflict worldwide. What conflict are you referring to? If the US did not have military bases in muslim lands, and if Israel had not been created (Bin Laden's two main complaints), Islamic terrorism would not exist.  That is as stupid as to be expected from you, parrot.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger: I'm only reporting what Bib Laden said - if the West wasn't imposing itself in Muslim lands, he would leave Westerners alone.


Quote:

Only an idiot and/or a deeply sinister evil bastards would draw a causal justification between the existence of Israel and US bases and the "resulting" blowing up of a Manchester stadium full of teeny bopper.

Refuted above. The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view'....hence the need for international mediation, an idea beyond the capacity of your primitive brain. 


Quote:

Mindless stupidity has oblitared every lastt vestige of thought, reason, humanity in your slogan-addled bird brain.

Not slogans from Bin Laden...ouch. 

Quote:

The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view'

This is the sort of mindless dribble the little pink spews when she simply doesn't understand the discussion any more.

Quote:

The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view'....hence the need for international mediation, an idea beyond the capacity of your primitive brain.

Are you saying this as an independent-thinking individual who has arrived to his opinions and views by thinking his own way to them - or are you merely parroting a received opinion, given to you by your common prosperity, consensus-anointed CCP betters?

Similarly, is the "other bloke" an individual, also freely thinking, or is he just a political heretic and mouthpiece of the enemies of common prosperity CCP China ?

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2024 at 12:10pm:

Quote: The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view' This is the sort of mindless dribble the little pink spews when she simply doesn't understand the discussion any more.

Er - you forgot to show how/why my statement is erroneous. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 14^th, 2024 at 2:01pm:

freediver wrote on May 14th, 2024 at 12:10pm: Quote: The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view' This is the sort of mindless dribble the little pink spews when she simply doesn't understand the discussion any more. Er - you forgot to show how/why my statement is erroneous.

You would have to actually say something first. I cannot point at a pool of dribble on the floor in front of you and contradict it.

Frank wrote on May 14^th, 2024 at 1:59pm:

Quote: The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view'....hence the need for international mediation, an idea beyond the capacity of your primitive brain. Are you saying this as an independent-thinking individual who has arrived to his opinions and views by thinking his own way to them -

Yes


Quote:

or are you merely parroting a received opinion, given to you by your common prosperity, consensus-anointed CCP betters?

No.


Quote:

Similarly, is the "other bloke" an individual, also freely thinking, or is he just a political heretic and mouthpiece of the enemies of common prosperity CCP China ?

Same as above: Bin Laden hated the creation of Israel in Muslim lands.

You?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 14^th, 2024 at 3:04pm:

Frank wrote on May 14th, 2024 at 1:59pm: Quote: The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view'....hence the need for international mediation, an idea beyond the capacity of your primitive brain. Are you saying this as an independent-thinking individual who has arrived to his opinions and views by thinking his own way to them - Yes [quote] or are you merely parroting a received opinion, given to you by your common prosperity, consensus-anointed CCP betters?

No.


Quote:

Similarly, is the "other bloke" an individual, also freely thinking, or is he just a political heretic and mouthpiece of the enemies of common prosperity CCP China ?

:D :D
So you ARE a lizard brained, individually and freely thinking kind of  gruesome neoliberal red in claw freak, too!

thegreatdivide wrote on May 14^th, 2024 at 3:04pm:

Frank wrote on May 14th, 2024 at 1:59pm: Quote: The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view'....hence the need for international mediation, an idea beyond the capacity of your primitive brain. Are you saying this as an independent-thinking individual who has arrived to his opinions and views by thinking his own way to them - Yes [quote] or are you merely parroting a received opinion, given to you by your common prosperity, consensus-anointed CCP betters?

No.


Quote:

Similarly, is the "other bloke" an individual, also freely thinking, or is he just a political heretic and mouthpiece of the enemies of common prosperity CCP China ?

:D :D
So you ARE a lizard brained, individually and freely thinking kind of  gruesome neoliberal red in claw freak, too!

Frank wrote on May 14^th, 2024 at 3:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 14th, 2024 at 3:04pm: Frank wrote on May 14th, 2024 at 1:59pm: Quote: The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view'....hence the need for international mediation, an idea beyond the capacity of your primitive brain. Are you saying this as an independent-thinking individual who has arrived to his opinions and views by thinking his own way to them - Yes [quote] or are you merely parroting a received opinion, given to you by your common prosperity, consensus-anointed CCP betters? No. [quote]Similarly, is the "other bloke" an individual, also freely thinking, or is he just a political heretic and mouthpiece of the enemies of common prosperity CCP China ?

:D :D
So you ARE a lizard brained, individually and freely thinking kind of  gruesome neoliberal red in claw freak, too!
[/quote]

You misread my answer: Bin Laden had his veiw of the Israel's encroachment of Palestine.

My view is Israel should not have been created UNLESS  the UNSC could guarantee both states' security.

Disgusting toad Greg Sheridan in full flight:

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/andrew-bolt/despicable-greg-sheridan-calls-out-labor-for-appeasing-dopey-uneducated-greens-voters/video/a00aa13dca1c51009286dc5c3471996d

..bemoaning the fact there are only 100k Jews in Oz, cf 800K Muslims...and blaming Labor for kowtowing to the   'uneducated university Greens'  for electoral reasons.

Needless to say, the dolt Andrew Bolt is all ears, on Sky News....

Terror police probe 14-year-old arrested after University of Sydney stabbing

This is an Australian born little Muslim ****er. No assimilation DESPITE being brought into the world here.

Islam is borderless, with zero national allegiance - the very idea is anthema to the Islamic ummah.

This boy, like tens of thousands of others, are members of an alternative, parallel society, here and in EVERY Western country. They are NOT fitting in, they are NOT assimilating. They are engaged in ongoing jihad.

The NSW Minister for Customer Service and Digital Government, Minister for Emergency Services, and Minister for Youth Justice is now called Jihad.

It ain't no ****ing spiritual struggle. It is a political struggle.

freediver wrote on May 14^th, 2024 at 2:34pm:

TGDThe problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view' This is the sort of mindless dribble the little pink spews when she simply doesn't understand the discussion any more.

Er - you forgot to show how/why my statement is erroneous. 


Quote:

You would have to actually say something first. I cannot point at a pool of dribble on the floor in front of you and contradict it.

 

Er - explain WHY (in your opinion) my observation, namely "The problem is YOU are incapable of 'seeing the other bloke's point of view", is  a "pool of dribble"? 

Unfortunately, your "shared belief" and "subjective reality" delusions will hinder your capacity to explain why.... Bin Laden had a different belief system to you, and only an effective international rules-based system can adjudicate between the two, to avoid war.

Like Palestine with its capital in East Jerusalem should have been recognized in 1947 when Israel was recognized  by the UN, with security for both states guaranteed by the UNSC which had/has the capacity to keep Israel and the Arab world from fighting with one-another.   

Frank wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 6:22pm:

Terror police probe 14-year-old arrested after University of Sydney stabbing This is an Australian born little Muslim ****er. No assimilation DESPITE being brought into the world here. Islam is borderless, with zero national allegiance - the very idea is anthema to the Islamic ummah. This boy, like tens of thousands of others, are members of an alternative, parallel society, here and in EVERY Western country. They are NOT fitting in, they are NOT assimilating. They are engaged in ongoing jihad. The NSW Minister for Customer Service and Digital Government, Minister for Emergency Services, and Minister for Youth Justice is now called Jihad. It ain't no ****ing spiritual struggle. It is a political struggle.

Like the political struggle to gain recognition  of Palestine.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 3:13pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 2nd, 2024 at 6:22pm: Terror police probe 14-year-old arrested after University of Sydney stabbing This is an Australian born little Muslim ****er. No assimilation DESPITE being brought into the world here. Islam is borderless, with zero national allegiance - the very idea is anthema to the Islamic ummah. This boy, like tens of thousands of others, are members of an alternative, parallel society, here and in EVERY Western country. They are NOT fitting in, they are NOT assimilating. They are engaged in ongoing jihad. The NSW Minister for Customer Service and Digital Government, Minister for Emergency Services, and Minister for Youth Justice is now called Jihad. It ain't no ****ing spiritual struggle. It is a political struggle. Like the political struggle to gain recognition  of Palestine.

Stabbing for Palistine, eh?

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 4:33pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 3rd, 2024 at 3:13pm: Frank wrote on Jul 2nd, 2024 at 6:22pm: Terror police probe 14-year-old arrested after University of Sydney stabbing This is an Australian born little Muslim ****er. No assimilation DESPITE being brought into the world here. Islam is borderless, with zero national allegiance - the very idea is anthema to the Islamic ummah. This boy, like tens of thousands of others, are members of an alternative, parallel society, here and in EVERY Western country. They are NOT fitting in, they are NOT assimilating. They are engaged in ongoing jihad. The NSW Minister for Customer Service and Digital Government, Minister for Emergency Services, and Minister for Youth Justice is now called Jihad. It ain't no ****ing spiritual struggle. It is a political struggle. Like the political struggle to gain recognition  of Palestine. Stabbing for Palistine, eh?

Most likely. Bin Laden  himself said  Israel was one of his major points of dispute with the West; I'm sure Islamic schools worldwide are attracted  to that view.

Throw in some mental instability...and voila - a stabbing.