This is an absolute disaster.

Vote No!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMPou4TSDi8

Every Labor state will be throwing billions in tax payer dollars into these treaties.

The Federal Govt. will then be using even more $ billions in tax payer dollars with Federally based treaties.

This will see 3% of Australians receiving beyond the $36 billion allocated every year to Aboriginal centric issues & programs.

It will make the Sit Down Money issue look absolutely pale(pun intended) in the shade.

And the failings & corruption of previous Aboriginal bodies like ATSIC & certain Land Councils will have been an insignificance.

And all the Aboriginal activists behind the Voice, the NIAA, Uluru Statement, your Tom Calma, Marcia Langton, Noel Pearson, Pat Dodson, Thomas Mayor,  Megan Davis, Dean Parkin etc
will be the Indigenous Elite of Australia running the show.

Gnads wrote on May 17^th, 2023 at 11:55am:

Every Labor state will be throwing billions in tax payer dollars into these treaties.

The poverty industry is already costing the states $billions.


Quote:

The Federal Govt. will then be using even more $ billions in tax payer dollars with Federally based treaties.

Ditto


Quote:

This will see 3% of Australians receiving beyond the $36 billion allocated every year to Aboriginal centric issues & programs.

 

True, but it is hoped the cost of the current poverty industry will be reduced, as the Voice - so it is hoped - will close the gap.


Quote:

It will make the Sit Down Money issue look absolutely pale(pun intended) in the shade.

Indeed - this is why understanding how to replace the poverty industry and its sit-down money, is absolutely vital.


Quote:

And the failings & corruption of previous Aboriginal bodies like ATSIC & certain Land Councils will have been an insignificance.

 

Well , they should be a warning of the errors in  following poverty industry policies.


Quote:

And all the Aboriginal activists behind the Voice, the NIAA, Uluru Statement, your Tom Calma, Marcia Langton, Noel Pearson, Pat Dodson, Thomas Mayor,  Megan Davis, Dean Parkin etc will be the Indigenous Elite of Australia running the show.

Noel Pearson at least understands the need for a Job Guarantee for ALL Australians. 

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Sky News and Peta Credlin. She saw the defeat of her boyfriend as Prime Minister and still speaks bullshit, hey, Matty, which is of course why you're a fan.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

.

"Whoever said that the Voice would usher in a new era of reconciliation, unity and love was either excessively optimistic or a complete fool. Everywhere I look, I see division and disunity and it is all generated by the Voice," writes Neil Brown.

https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/05/brown-study-271/

Boris wrote on May 17^th, 2023 at 1:34pm:

"Whoever said that the Voice would usher in a new era of reconciliation, unity and love was either excessively optimistic or a complete fool. Everywhere I look, I see division and disunity and it is all generated by the Voice," writes Neil Brown. https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/05/brown-study-271/

the debate about the voice is causing  division....why is it so? 

And 'disunity', measured by incarceration rates, existed long before the voice debate.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 17^th, 2023 at 12:24pm:

Gnads wrote on May 17th, 2023 at 11:55am: Every Labor state will be throwing billions in tax payer dollars into these treaties. The poverty industry is already costing the states $billions. Quote: The Federal Govt. will then be using even more $ billions in tax payer dollars with Federally based treaties. Ditto [quote]This will see 3% of Australians receiving beyond the $36 billion allocated every year to Aboriginal centric issues & programs.

 

True, but it is hoped the cost of the current poverty industry will be reduced, as the Voice - so it is hoped - will close the gap.


Quote:

It will make the Sit Down Money issue look absolutely pale(pun intended) in the shade.

Indeed - this is why understanding how to replace the poverty industry and its sit-down money, is absolutely vital.


Quote:

And the failings & corruption of previous Aboriginal bodies like ATSIC & certain Land Councils will have been an insignificance.

 

Well , they should be a warning of the errors in  following poverty industry policies.


Quote:

And all the Aboriginal activists behind the Voice, the NIAA, Uluru Statement, your Tom Calma, Marcia Langton, Noel Pearson, Pat Dodson, Thomas Mayor,  Megan Davis, Dean Parkin etc will be the Indigenous Elite of Australia running the show.

Noel Pearson at least understands the need for a Job Guarantee for ALL Australians. 
[/quote]

These $billions will be on top of those billions.... and nothing will change.

the rest of your post is an irrelevance.

No Treaty To Be Passed Without A Plebiscite!!

You do not make treaties with anyone other than separate states........ they are either Australian citizens or they are not ...... there endeth the lesson.

“In Australia, there is no hierarchy of descents. There must be no privilege of origin … the commitment to Australia is the one thing needful to be a true Australian.” - Bob Hawke.

Presenting - The Aboriginewealth of Australia!

When do the treason trials start?

Meanwhile, reality slowly pulls its boots on..

https://twitter.com/VoicesForAU

From where did these states derive the right for their government to impose unequal treaties on their electorate?  It certainly didn't come from the people..... it comes from the hubris of New Labor in its rise in Australia due to the ineptitude of their opposition - it won't take long for the people to work out they've bought a serious pig in a poke that will poke them in the eye in many costly ways.

On the horizon are assassinations, political upheaval (Poor Fellow - My Country lead by such idiots on both sides), open revolt, civil war, and extreme vigilante action......

What are the benefits to non-Indigenous Australians of any treaties?  A treaty is not a one-way event, you know..... so what are the contents of these legislations that permit these governments to impose unequal treaties on the general populace without their say-so?

No Treaties Without The Unequivocal and Fully Informed Consent Of The People!  Put each one to a plebiscite or leave town.

Hmmm - didn't someone says the government had no obligation to post a No case in a refero?

"What is the referendum pamphlet?
The Referendum Machinery Act, governing how referendums are held, requires the Australian Electoral Commission to compile and deliver the paper document to all voters. It contains essays for and against the constitutional alteration, written by politicians who voted for or against the bill in parliament (more on that later)."

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 18^th, 2023 at 8:49am:

Hmmm - didn't someone says the government had no obligation to post a No case in a refero? "What is the referendum pamphlet? The Referendum Machinery Act, governing how referendums are held, requires the Australian Electoral Commission to compile and deliver the paper document to all voters. It contains essays for and against the constitutional alteration, written by politicians who voted for or against the bill in parliament (more on that later)."

Well I thought a govt had a moral obligation to fund both sides/cases in a referendum.....

that's only fair.

Why should the "yes" campaign proponents get tax payers money & the "no" campaign has to raise it's own funds?

Surely it should be the same rules applying to each team in a debate?

Because they should both be on a level playing field & the presentation of arguments for and against put to the public for them to weigh up & make a decision at the ballot box through the referendum.

Much the same as political parties are financed by govt & donations to run their campaigns to get you to vote for them.

For Albanese to say that funding the "No" campaign would be racist.....is 1. a complete lie further to the use of emotional blackmail & 2. and the lack details of who, what, where & why regarding the voice is deceptive & underhanded.

You do not run a referendum on a Constitutional change costing over $200million dollars asking the people to vote it up without details that they say will tell you after the referendum if it gets up.

That is ludicrous.

Furthermore those monies are split with the AEC & NIAA (An Aboriginal specific body).

Not all Aboriginals support the "Voice" propaganda.


Quote:

Funding for the referendum was provided to the AEC and NIAA in the October 2022 Australian federal budget, with a total distribution of $75.2 million (excluding Contingency Reserves) over two years (FY2022–24). There is an additional $160 million of the federal Contingency Reserve available to deliver the referendum.

The bias of funding one side of this debate for the proposed referendum is what is actually racist & tantamount to apartheid.

Vote NO!

Gnads wrote on May 17^th, 2023 at 7:19pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 17th, 2023 at 12:24pm: Gnads wrote on May 17th, 2023 at 11:55am: Every Labor state will be throwing billions in tax payer dollars into these treaties. The poverty industry is already costing the states $billions. Quote: The Federal Govt. will then be using even more $ billions in tax payer dollars with Federally based treaties. Ditto [quote]This will see 3% of Australians receiving beyond the $36 billion allocated every year to Aboriginal centric issues & programs.   True, but it is hoped the cost of the current poverty industry will be reduced, as the Voice - so it is hoped - will close the gap. [quote]It will make the Sit Down Money issue look absolutely pale(pun intended) in the shade.

Indeed - this is why understanding how to replace the poverty industry and its sit-down money, is absolutely vital.


Quote:

And the failings & corruption of previous Aboriginal bodies like ATSIC & certain Land Councils will have been an insignificance.

 

Well , they should be a warning of the errors in  following poverty industry policies.


Quote:

And all the Aboriginal activists behind the Voice, the NIAA, Uluru Statement, your Tom Calma, Marcia Langton, Noel Pearson, Pat Dodson, Thomas Mayor,  Megan Davis, Dean Parkin etc will be the Indigenous Elite of Australia running the show.

Noel Pearson at least understands the need for a Job Guarantee for ALL Australians. 
[/quote]

These $billions will be on top of those billions.... and nothing will change.[/quote]

But as I said, the proponents of the voice believe things WILL change.


Quote:

the rest of your post is an irrelevance.

That is just your blind ideology.   I explained WHY the voice is misconceived, and what is required to bring  about ACTUAL change. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18^th, 2023 at 12:20pm:

Gnads wrote on May 17th, 2023 at 7:19pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 17th, 2023 at 12:24pm: Gnads wrote on May 17th, 2023 at 11:55am: Every Labor state will be throwing billions in tax payer dollars into these treaties. The poverty industry is already costing the states $billions. Quote: The Federal Govt. will then be using even more $ billions in tax payer dollars with Federally based treaties. Ditto [quote]This will see 3% of Australians receiving beyond the $36 billion allocated every year to Aboriginal centric issues & programs.   True, but it is hoped the cost of the current poverty industry will be reduced, as the Voice - so it is hoped - will close the gap. [quote]It will make the Sit Down Money issue look absolutely pale(pun intended) in the shade. Indeed - this is why understanding how to replace the poverty industry and its sit-down money, is absolutely vital. [quote]And the failings & corruption of previous Aboriginal bodies like ATSIC & certain Land Councils will have been an insignificance.

 

Well , they should be a warning of the errors in  following poverty industry policies.


Quote:

And all the Aboriginal activists behind the Voice, the NIAA, Uluru Statement, your Tom Calma, Marcia Langton, Noel Pearson, Pat Dodson, Thomas Mayor,  Megan Davis, Dean Parkin etc will be the Indigenous Elite of Australia running the show.

Noel Pearson at least understands the need for a Job Guarantee for ALL Australians. 
[/quote]

These $billions will be on top of those billions.... and nothing will change.[/quote]

But as I said, the proponents of the voice believe things WILL change.


Quote:

the rest of your post is an irrelevance.

That is just your blind ideology.   I explained WHY the voice is misconceived, and what is required to bring  about ACTUAL change. 
[/quote]

Pot, kettle, black  ::)

TGD the only one with the blind ideology is you.

It doesn't matter what the proponents of the "voice" believe.....

unless they can actually prove it & put it to the people exactly how the whole body will operate, what powers it will have & the processes for election of members & or their removal demonstrated & in black & white(pun intended) ....

then the referendum should not be going ahead.

The whole concept of - say "yes" & we'll work it out later is a nonsense & not acceptable.

Gnads wrote on May 18^th, 2023 at 2:49pm:

TGD the only one with the blind ideology is you. It doesn't matter what the proponents of the "voice" believe.....

Of course it does, that's why the voice referendum will be held; ie they believe it will assist in closing the gap.

You can't think clearly?   


Quote:

unless they can actually prove it & put it to the people exactly how the whole body will operate, what powers it will have & the processes for election of members & or their removal demonstrated & in black & white(pun intended) ....They can't prove it, then the referendum should not be going ahead.

   

Addressed above.


Quote:

The whole concept of - say "yes" & we'll work it out later is a nonsense & not acceptable.

Maybe, but your refusal tp look at what WILL close the gap is egregious, the result of blind ideology.

By definition, provision of an above-poverty job for all will close the gap....and neuter the cultural/'sovereignty'  warriors at the same time. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18^th, 2023 at 4:17pm:

Gnads wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 2:49pm: TGD the only one with the blind ideology is you. It doesn't matter what the proponents of the "voice" believe..... Of course it does, that's why the voice referendum will be held; ie they believe it will assist in closing the gap. You can't think clearly?    Quote: unless they can actually prove it & put it to the people exactly how the whole body will operate, what powers it will have & the processes for election of members & or their removal demonstrated & in black & white(pun intended) ....They can't prove it, then the referendum should not be going ahead.     Addressed above. [quote]The whole concept of - say "yes" & we'll work it out later is a nonsense & not acceptable.

Maybe, but your refusal tp look at what WILL close the gap is egregious, the result of blind ideology.

By definition, provision of an above-poverty job for all will close the gap....and neuter the cultural/'sovereignty'  warriors at the same time. 
[/quote]

Phuk off I'm thinking perfectly clearly on this issue.

Repetitious ideology of "close the gap" proves your hypocrisy.

All you've got is the CDEP & job guarantee for mowing your own yard & keeping it tidy bullshyte.

The blind ideology is yours. And you know it. ::)

Gnads wrote on May 18^th, 2023 at 6:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 4:17pm: Gnads wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 2:49pm: TGD the only one with the blind ideology is you. It doesn't matter what the proponents of the "voice" believe..... Of course it does, that's why the voice referendum will be held; ie they believe it will assist in closing the gap. You can't think clearly?    Quote: unless they can actually prove it & put it to the people exactly how the whole body will operate, what powers it will have & the processes for election of members & or their removal demonstrated & in black & white(pun intended) ....They can't prove it, then the referendum should not be going ahead.     Addressed above. [quote]The whole concept of - say "yes" & we'll work it out later is a nonsense & not acceptable. Maybe, but your refusal tp look at what WILL close the gap is egregious, the result of blind ideology. By definition, provision of an above-poverty job for all will close the gap....and neuter the cultural/'sovereignty'  warriors at the same time.

Phuk off I'm thinking perfectly clearly on this issue.[/quote]

Let's see what you got...


Quote:

Repetitious ideology of "close the gap" proves your hypocrisy.

So far all you've  got is denial that the gap exists..."deplorable", ideology-based nonsense. The gap is very real. 


Quote:

All you've got is the CDEP & job guarantee for mowing your own yard & keeping it tidy bullshyte.

No..mowing other people's yards...spot the difference?


Quote:

The blind ideology is yours. And you know it. ::)

Your errors shown above, again.

Culture?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d_glfNlmtQ&t=10s

A repeat of Matty's views...  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

thegreatdivide wrote on May 19^th, 2023 at 1:04pm:

Gnads wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 6:53pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 4:17pm: Gnads wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 2:49pm: TGD the only one with the blind ideology is you. It doesn't matter what the proponents of the "voice" believe..... Of course it does, that's why the voice referendum will be held; ie they believe it will assist in closing the gap. You can't think clearly?    Quote: unless they can actually prove it & put it to the people exactly how the whole body will operate, what powers it will have & the processes for election of members & or their removal demonstrated & in black & white(pun intended) ....They can't prove it, then the referendum should not be going ahead.     Addressed above. [quote]The whole concept of - say "yes" & we'll work it out later is a nonsense & not acceptable. Maybe, but your refusal tp look at what WILL close the gap is egregious, the result of blind ideology. By definition, provision of an above-poverty job for all will close the gap....and neuter the cultural/'sovereignty'  warriors at the same time.  Phuk off I'm thinking perfectly clearly on this issue.

Let's see what you got...


Quote:

Repetitious ideology of "close the gap" proves your hypocrisy.

So far all you've  got is denial that the gap exists..."deplorable", ideology-based nonsense. The gap is very real. 


Quote:

All you've got is the CDEP & job guarantee for mowing your own yard & keeping it tidy bullshyte.

No..mowing other people's yards...spot the difference?


Quote:

The blind ideology is yours. And you know it. ::)

Your errors shown above, again.
[/quote]

You couldn't show shyte from clay.

So they're all going to mow each others yards 
but not their own? ;D

Gnads wrote on May 19^th, 2023 at 6:27pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 19th, 2023 at 1:04pm: Gnads wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 6:53pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 4:17pm: Gnads wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 2:49pm: TGD the only one with the blind ideology is you. It doesn't matter what the proponents of the "voice" believe..... Of course it does, that's why the voice referendum will be held; ie they believe it will assist in closing the gap. You can't think clearly?    Quote: unless they can actually prove it & put it to the people exactly how the whole body will operate, what powers it will have & the processes for election of members & or their removal demonstrated & in black & white(pun intended) ....They can't prove it, then the referendum should not be going ahead.     Addressed above. [quote]The whole concept of - say "yes" & we'll work it out later is a nonsense & not acceptable. Maybe, but your refusal to look at what WILL close the gap is egregious, the result of blind ideology. By definition, provision of an above-poverty job for all will close the gap....and neuter the cultural/'sovereignty'  warriors at the same time.  Phuk off I'm thinking perfectly clearly on this issue. Let's see what you got... [quote]Repetitious ideology of "close the gap" proves your hypocrisy.

So far all you've  got is denial that the gap exists..."deplorable", ideology-based nonsense. The gap is very real. 


Quote:

All you've got is the CDEP & job guarantee for mowing your own yard & keeping it tidy bullshyte.

No..mowing other people's yards...spot the difference?


Quote:

The blind ideology is yours. And you know it. ::)

Your errors shown above, again.
[/quote]

You couldn't show shyte from clay.[/quote] 

The fall-back position from conservatives when their brains are crippled by blind ideology; you didn't attempt to refute any of the points made above.


Quote:

So they're all going to mow each others yards  but not their own? ;D

Low IQ; mowing lawns is only ONE possible area of employment, in a community.

Force 'em all into a job even if it's mowing their own lawn .... don't let 'em sit around thinking they're about to inherit billions from being the first settlers..... they lost .... you don't make unequal treaties in favour of the loser.....

Unconditional Surrender!  That's where Albo is leading them...

Cheaper to round 'em all up and ship 'em all out back to where they came from .........................

Jeez - someone on Twitter today said that if the voice passed, it would lead to civil war amongst the Indigenous groups..... I had to add, not to mention with All Others once they wake up to what they'd done to themselves.

Genocide then would be a lighter option........ **dreams of Aborassic Park and Gondwanamo Bay** .. the peaceful solution..... total apartheid as they themselves demand ..... bloody lot cheaper than sustaining the bastards while they riot, steal and demand without cease... set aside a nice swathe and put 'em all in there......

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 12:28pm:

Force 'em all into a job even if it's mowing their own lawn ....

Well I wouldn't use the word "force" , rather  "provide"; but good to see you on the right track...


Quote:

don't let 'em sit around thinking they're about to inherit billions from being the first settlers..... they lost .... you don't make unequal treaties in favour of the loser.....

Good point; we all have to work to prosper   (...come to think of it, just like we all had to, in the h-g days).


Quote:

Unconditional Surrender!  That's where Albo is leading them...

I'm fascinated by the social dynamics set in play by the voice referendum....and even more interested in what will happen after the referendum!


Quote:

Cheaper to round 'em all up and ship 'em all out back to where they came from .........................

Yes - under the current rules requiring currency-issuing governments to beg for funding from the private sector.

But the current neoliberal TINA fallacy is...a fallacy.

Have a look

https://www.facebook.com/9NewsDarwin

https://fb.watch/kF3fQ6Dj8I/

Channel 9 News Darwin

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Matty, Facebook?  Really?  What a WOFTAM you are proving to be.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 1:15pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Matty, Facebook?  Really?  What a WOFTAM you are proving to be.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

9 News Darwin

Reality

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Matty, Facebook?  Really?  What a WOFTAM you are proving to be.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 5:12pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Matty, Facebook?  Really?  What a WOFTAM you are proving to be.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   ::) ::)

They link to online accessible media footage, from time to time. You are welcome to criticise what is being reported, if you wish.

Boris wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 5:02pm:

9 News Darwin Reality

Yes; obviously Albo (in the video) is as useless as you with your  DNA predestination theory/'just lock them up' narrative.

I agree the voice referendum is a waste of time and money, given our current dysfunctional neoclassical economic system;  but your ideology is an even greater barrier to closing the gap. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 11:25am:

Boris wrote on May 21st, 2023 at 5:02pm: 9 News Darwin Reality Yes; obviously Albo (in the video) is as useless as you with your  DNA predestination theory/'just lock them up' narrative. I agree the voice referendum is a waste of time and money, given our current dysfunctional neoclassical economic system;  but your ideology is an even greater barrier to closing the gap.

You may not use the phrase 'closing the gaps' in any discussion of the voice when you have already stated that the voice will close no gaps.

No wonder people think you're up in the clouds somewhere.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP3whmQ_OZc

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 6:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 22nd, 2023 at 11:25am: Boris wrote on May 21st, 2023 at 5:02pm: 9 News Darwin Reality Yes; obviously Albo (in the video) is as useless as you with your  DNA predestination theory/'just lock them up' narrative. I agree the voice referendum is a waste of time and money, given our current dysfunctional neoclassical economic system;  but your ideology is an even greater barrier to closing the gap.  You may not use the phrase 'closing the gaps' in any discussion of the voice when you have already stated that the voice will close no gaps.

The nation is considering - and dividing over -  the voice as the answer to black dysfunction (measured by the egregious gap stats), not me.


Quote:

No wonder people think you're up in the clouds somewhere.......

I accept your concession, now that I explained your error. 

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/ceduna-frustrated-with-alcohol-related-issues-as-leaders-call-for-investment-in-housing-and-jobs/ar-BB1lS7M2?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=40f223e23106477bb68f32c2a4acea2f&ei=156

Ceduna frustrated with alcohol-related issues as leaders call for investment in housing and jobs

......

...because the Oz government thinks it can't afford to fix the problem without arousing the ire of taxpayers.

So the entrenched poverty /'welfare' industry continues....

Deplorable. 

https://i.imgflip.com/8p5b2t.jpg

thegreatdivide wrote on May 6^th, 2024 at 9:58pm:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/ceduna-frustrated-with-alcohol-related-issues-as-leaders-call-for-investment-in-housing-and-jobs/ar-BB1lS7M2?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=40f223e23106477bb68f32c2a4acea2f&ei=156 Ceduna frustrated with alcohol-related issues as leaders call for investment in housing and jobs ...... ...because the Oz government thinks it can't afford to fix the problem without arousing the ire of taxpayers. So the entrenched poverty /'welfare' industry continues.... Deplorable.

Yeah - build 'em each a house there and give 'em jobs - you bin there? there was a servo there ....

Job?  "Ay, Jindaburra - it your turn to go down on the grog run as courier, yeah?"

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 7^th, 2024 at 12:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 6th, 2024 at 9:58pm: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/ceduna-frustrated-with-alcohol-related-issues-as-leaders-call-for-investment-in-housing-and-jobs/ar-BB1lS7M2?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=40f223e23106477bb68f32c2a4acea2f&ei=156 Ceduna frustrated with alcohol-related issues as leaders call for investment in housing and jobs ...... ...because the Oz government thinks it can't afford to fix the problem without arousing the ire of taxpayers. So the entrenched poverty /'welfare' industry continues.... Deplorable.  Yeah - build 'em each a house there and give 'em jobs - you bin there? there was a servo there ....

A servo? You trying to say something?



Quote:

Job?  "Ay, Jindaburra - it your turn to go down on the grog run as courier, yeah?"

That's not a job which Ceduna's leaders want done.

Stop proving you are part of the problem.

"That's not a job which Ceduna's leaders want done. "

Words are cheap and designed for public and politician consumption in order to draw more cash....

If that's not a job wanted done, why then did The Return from Indue fail instantly?

'.. drove my Treas'ry to the levy, but the levy was dry ...'
Them good ol' boys was drinkin' whiskey an' rye ...'

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 7^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

"That's not a job which Ceduna's leaders want done. " Words are cheap and designed for public and politician consumption in order to draw more cash....

No so, when the words mean something; in this case, jobs which Ceduna's leaders want done, to ensure employment for everyone in the town.   


Quote:

If that's not a job wanted done, why then did The Return from Indue fail instantly?

Because your blind, free market religion (literally blind: "the invisible hand")  ONLY values work via profits in free markets, ignoring work which the community wants done outside of the free market.   

Meanwhile ... how the heck can this man be found to have NOT contributed to the woman's death?!!!   >:(

‘They are not a punching bag for your anger’: Court finds man who punched woman 40 times did not contribute to her death
Heather McNeill
ByHeather McNeill
May 7, 2024 — 5.00am

WARNING: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are warned that the following story contains an image of a deceased person.

The family of a West Australian woman who was viciously beaten by her partner in an attack that included punching her 40 times, stomping on her head five times and choking her, felt betrayed by the justice system after he was cleared of contributing to her death.

Instead, the cause of death of Jigalong woman, Nyaparu*, 24, was found to be a heart attack suffered in the moments after she was bashed.

https://i.imgur.com/xq8qjuR.jpg
Nyaparu died from a heart attack after suffering a sustained beating from her partner in Perth’s CBD in 2022. CREDIT:WATODAY

The finding comes a month after Victorian woman Emma Bates was found dead inside her home after allegedly being bashed by her neighbour, who is not facing charges over her death due to a post-mortem being unable to determine if illness played a part.

Nyaparu died in December 2022 after CCTV captured her boyfriend Aaron Wumi, 28, unleashing a sustained assault on her about 12.40am on a footpath in Perth’s CBD.

The mother of one tried to walk away, but was followed by Wumi into a car park where a witness claimed the beating continued.

Obscured from CCTV, Wumi emerged from the area alone nearly an hour later. Nyaparu was found unresponsive lying on the ground and pronounced dead by paramedics at 3.12am.

Wumi told police he “didn’t mean to kill her”, and he was never charged over his partner’s death. Instead, pathologists found the young mother died of a heart attack.

Wumi was instead charged with causing bodily harm. Last week, as the national conversation around men’s violence and the deaths of women ramped up, he was sentenced to four years’ jail.

With parole, he could be released in two years.  ::)

Perth District Court Judge Wendy Hughes said she sentenced Wumi on the basis he did not cause the death of the victim, directly or indirectly.  :o

“The cause of death was determined to be coronary artery atherosclerosis with alcohol effect. Essentially, that indicates that the victim died of a heart attack as someone who suffered from heart disease where high levels of alcohol increased the risk of a heart attack,” she said.

Nyaparu’s brother-in-law Michael Rickards said the family was stunned by the findings.

“My sister died two years ago and nobody’s spoken about it; there were no questions raised,” he said.

“If [Nyaparu] wasn’t beaten that night, would she have had a heart attack later that night?

“She’s been hit 40 times, had her head stomped on five times, been choked, stripped, she’s in distress.”

Rickards is calling for more to be done to stamp out domestic violence.

He is also calling for repeat domestic violence offenders to be added to a national banned drinkers’ register.

The day before her death, Wumi and Nyaparu had travelled from Jigalong – a remote Indigenous community east of Newman where alcohol is banned – to Perth for Wumi to undergo jaw surgery.

During his sentencing, Hughes told Wumi he had to stop drinking.

“Mr Wumi, you must never ever hurt your partner again,” she said.

“You must respect the women in your community, they are not a punching bag for your anger.”

West Australian Greens Senator Dorinda Cox supported Nyaparu’s family through the legal process.

...

WA Premier Roger Cook also condemned Wumi’s violent attack, but stopped short of committing to any law reform.

“Whether the heart attack was caused by that attack. I’m not qualified to be able to make that call, but I understand that this case is very distressing and it’s heartbreaking,” he said.

“And we will obviously take any advice in relation to ensuring that we do everything we can to reduce and eliminate family domestic violence in our community.”

https://www.theage.com.au/national/western-australia/they-are-not-a-punching-bag-for-your-anger-court-finds-man-who-punched-woman-40-times-did-not-contribute-to-her-death-20240506-p5fp9y.html

Boris wrote on May 17^th, 2023 at 8:57am:

This is an absolute disaster. Vote No! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMPou4TSDi8

This is the start of the Australian CIVIL WAR.
You know Americans (the Left/Democraps) are pumping out Movies and Tubes on possible Civil War in America, but its just really just a need to 're-justify' the Blue North's existence - as the War against the Grey South did.
It won't happen in America. The Red East Republicans aren't into 'Civil War' threats. They're happy to just step back and watch the Blue North hang itself in Suicide.

But as we know in American 'fake' Politics - the Blue North are connected to the Media's Cultural view (not the real political view) and its from that Media (via the Democraps and the ALP) that its now trying to develop Australia into a GREY SOUTH to re-establish a more international version of the Civil War from long ago.

Making Australia out as the racist anti-black NEW GREY SOUTH, will re-establish and re-justify the empowerment of the 'BLUE' America.

The 'trick' here is that the Blue North & Grey South are the Media induced PSEUDO-POLITICS.
A European equivalent would be like Blue North Scandinavia v Grey South Latin Europe. Neither truly 'West' Europe and thus not really true Politics.

No doubt about it. The Media is trying to undermine, disrupt and cause 'death' in the New Worlds of North America, South America and here in the region of Sahul. Much in the same way of effect that the Middle-East's 'Religion' had on Asia, Europe and Africa. The Media of the Americas and here need to be booted into Oceania where it belongs. Oceania being that region from New Zealand, Pacific Islands (Hawaii too), Central America and the Caribbean Islands like Cuba.

Anything born from 'War' is a failure of Politics to establish growth from PEACE. Thus the American Civil War was a 'failure' in losing its Confederation aspect and now Democracy has a noose around its neck trying not to slip off the box.

This DIVISION BELL ringing is purely induced by the ALP and the Media Left. The ALP does not see 'aborigine' - it sees 'black'. That in itself is the give-away in their flaw.

The Media poked the pooch in N.America like a sex predator and it will take the money and run from here, like a 'thief'.

...the Media should stick to Music and Entertainment and the 'Blue North' should stick to Restaurants and Food Industry.
This is the curse of the Blue North/Grey South failure in Politics.

One day, a Governor-General will sever his connection with Britain on behalf of Australia - by killing a Prime Minister who betrayed Australia on behalf of America.
The Governor-General will thereafter serve the time of his natural life here in Australia for his crime of murder - warming his slippers by the fire and enjoying a nice plate of snapper and oysters for his trouble standing up for Australia.  ;)

Captain Nemo wrote on May 7^th, 2024 at 12:39pm:

Meanwhile ... how the heck can this man be found to have NOT contributed to the woman's death?!!!   >:(

Indeed,  but I fear you, like graps,  don't want to face  the consequences of welfare dependency on communities, in lieu of paid work.

from my #36:

"....your blind, free market religion (literally blind: "the invisible hand")  ONLY values work via profits in free markets, ignoring work which the community wants done outside of the free market".   

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8^th, 2024 at 11:49am:

Captain Nemo wrote on May 7th, 2024 at 12:39pm: Meanwhile ... how the heck can this man be found to have NOT contributed to the woman's death?!!!   >:(  Indeed,  but I fear you, like graps,  don't want to face  the consequences of welfare dependency on communities, in lieu of paid work. from my #36: "....your blind, free market religion (literally blind: "the invisible hand")  ONLY values work via profits in free markets, ignoring work which the community wants done outside of the free market".

You must realise like the rest of us, parrot, that your post has zero relevance to Nemo's.

You just carry on, obliviously, irregardlessly ( sic), don't you, that's why your name is parrot.

Frank wrote on May 8^th, 2024 at 3:57pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2024 at 11:49am: Captain Nemo wrote on May 7th, 2024 at 12:39pm: Meanwhile ... how the heck can this man be found to have NOT contributed to the woman's death?!!!   >:(  Indeed,  but I fear you, like graps,  don't want to face  the consequences of welfare dependency on communities, in lieu of paid work. from my #36: "....your blind, free market religion (literally blind: "the invisible hand")  ONLY values work via profits in free markets, ignoring work which the community wants done outside of the free market".    You must realise like the rest of us, parrot, that your post has zero relevance to Nemo's. You just carry on, obliviously, irregardlessly ( sic), don't you, that's why your name is parrot

Crippled conservative brain, can't see the inter-connectedness of the gap,  social breakdown, welfare dependency and dysfunctional free-markets, in this 'This Aboriginal Disaster'  thread.


Blind conservative brain, worshiping the blind "invisible hand" free market - which is why you sweep aside  welfare dependency, regarding it as self-imposed.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8^th, 2024 at 4:45pm:

Frank wrote on May 8th, 2024 at 3:57pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2024 at 11:49am: Captain Nemo wrote on May 7th, 2024 at 12:39pm: Meanwhile ... how the heck can this man be found to have NOT contributed to the woman's death?!!!   >:(  Indeed,  but I fear you, like graps,  don't want to face  the consequences of welfare dependency on communities, in lieu of paid work. from my #36: "....your blind, free market religion (literally blind: "the invisible hand")  ONLY values work via profits in free markets, ignoring work which the community wants done outside of the free market".    You must realise like the rest of us, parrot, that your post has zero relevance to Nemo's. You just carry on, obliviously, irregardlessly ( sic), don't you, that's why your name is parrot Crippled conservative brain, can't see the inter-connectedness of the gap,  social breakdown, welfare dependency and dysfunctionl free-markets, in this 'This Aboriginal Disaster'  thread. Blind conservative brain, worshiping the blind "invisible hand" free market - which is why you sweep aside  welfare dependency, regarding it as self-imposed.

Crippled woke brains are the disaster....

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 8^th, 2024 at 4:56pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2024 at 4:45pm: Frank wrote on May 8th, 2024 at 3:57pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 8th, 2024 at 11:49am: Captain Nemo wrote on May 7th, 2024 at 12:39pm: Meanwhile ... how the heck can this man be found to have NOT contributed to the woman's death?!!!   >:(  Indeed,  but I fear you, like graps,  don't want to face  the consequences of welfare dependency on communities, in lieu of paid work. from my #36: "....your blind, free market religion (literally blind: "the invisible hand")  ONLY values work via profits in free markets, ignoring work which the community wants done outside of the free market".    You must realise like the rest of us, parrot, that your post has zero relevance to Nemo's. You just carry on, obliviously, irregardlessly ( sic), don't you, that's why your name is parrot Crippled conservative brain, can't see the inter-connectedness of the gap,  social breakdown, welfare dependency and dysfunctionl free-markets, in this 'This Aboriginal Disaster'  thread. Blind conservative brain, worshiping the blind "invisible hand" free market - which is why you sweep aside  welfare dependency, regarding it as self-imposed. Crippled woke brains are the disaster....

You forgot to define "woke" brains; the Job Guarantee concept is hardly "woke".

Try again, Frank needs your assistance. 

The greatest disaster for our Abestinians (Two State Solution, you know) is the well-meaning but essentially unfounded (mentally and intellectually under-funded) do-gooders farting roses in their faces about their rights and sovereignty over everything in Australia....

Time for some REAL input into their REAL problems... - let's not mince words - PROBLEMS - not 'issues'....

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 8^th, 2024 at 7:37pm:

The greatest disaster for our Abestinians (Two State Solution, you know) is the well-meaning but essentially unfounded (mentally and intellectually under-funded) do-gooders farting roses in their faces about their rights and sovereignty over everything in Australia.... Time for some REAL input into their REAL problems... - let's not mince words - PROBLEMS - not 'issues'....

The greatest disaster?

I disagree:  the mainstream acceptance of the poverty industry with its entrenched welfare dependency is surely the actual problem.

Let the activists bleat about 'black sovereignty';  but participation in the economy remains to be achieved, to close the the gap.

You don't want to confront that fact, because you can't confront the reality that free markets don't always function as intended.

Imagine if all blacks suddenly decided to 'get with the strength' (the modern world, for the sake of the argument), some would still be faced with the reality of welfare dependency - as experienced by half a million whites in Oz. 

More like 'black sheepreignty' .... in all ways.... they and their fellow travelers.... as long as they are fed BS and left to grow in the dark they will always mushroom into just another problem, and nothing that can be given to them - and governments do NOT have the right to hand over OUR national parks to anyone, as a clear example - will ever change the perpetual grasping for more and more, since they figure they own every part of this land and we are the visitors and their guests at their discretion.

Time to say NO!  Better to go to full scale and get it over than endure this daily lawfare of the death of a thousand cu*ts.... the list just grows and grows ... do you feel no shame over your crass betrayal of this country that feeds you so well?

Captain Nemo wrote on May 7^th, 2024 at 12:39pm:

Meanwhile ... how the heck can this man be found to have NOT contributed to the woman's death?!!!   >:( ‘They are not a punching bag for your anger’: Court finds man who punched woman 40 times did not contribute to her death Heather McNeill ByHeather McNeill May 7, 2024 — 5.00am WARNING: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are warned that the following story contains an image of a deceased person. The family of a West Australian woman who was viciously beaten by her partner in an attack that included punching her 40 times, stomping on her head five times and choking her, felt betrayed by the justice system after he was cleared of contributing to her death. Instead, the cause of death of Jigalong woman, Nyaparu*, 24, was found to be a heart attack suffered in the moments after she was bashed. https://i.imgur.com/xq8qjuR.jpg Nyaparu died from a heart attack after suffering a sustained beating from her partner in Perth’s CBD in 2022. CREDIT:WATODAY The finding comes a month after Victorian woman Emma Bates was found dead inside her home after allegedly being bashed by her neighbour, who is not facing charges over her death due to a post-mortem being unable to determine if illness played a part. Nyaparu died in December 2022 after CCTV captured her boyfriend Aaron Wumi, 28, unleashing a sustained assault on her about 12.40am on a footpath in Perth’s CBD. The mother of one tried to walk away, but was followed by Wumi into a car park where a witness claimed the beating continued. Obscured from CCTV, Wumi emerged from the area alone nearly an hour later. Nyaparu was found unresponsive lying on the ground and pronounced dead by paramedics at 3.12am. Wumi told police he “didn’t mean to kill her”, and he was never charged over his partner’s death. Instead, pathologists found the young mother died of a heart attack. Wumi was instead charged with causing bodily harm. Last week, as the national conversation around men’s violence and the deaths of women ramped up, he was sentenced to four years’ jail. With parole, he could be released in two years.  ::) Perth District Court Judge Wendy Hughes said she sentenced Wumi on the basis he did not cause the death of the victim, directly or indirectly.  :o “The cause of death was determined to be coronary artery atherosclerosis with alcohol effect. Essentially, that indicates that the victim died of a heart attack as someone who suffered from heart disease where high levels of alcohol increased the risk of a heart attack,” she said. Nyaparu’s brother-in-law Michael Rickards said the family was stunned by the findings. “My sister died two years ago and nobody’s spoken about it; there were no questions raised,” he said. “If [Nyaparu] wasn’t beaten that night, would she have had a heart attack later that night? “She’s been hit 40 times, had her head stomped on five times, been choked, stripped, she’s in distress.” Rickards is calling for more to be done to stamp out domestic violence. He is also calling for repeat domestic violence offenders to be added to a national banned drinkers’ register. The day before her death, Wumi and Nyaparu had travelled from Jigalong – a remote Indigenous community east of Newman where alcohol is banned – to Perth for Wumi to undergo jaw surgery. During his sentencing, Hughes told Wumi he had to stop drinking. “Mr Wumi, you must never ever hurt your partner again,” she said. “You must respect the women in your community, they are not a punching bag for your anger.” West Australian Greens Senator Dorinda Cox supported Nyaparu’s family through the legal process. ... WA Premier Roger Cook also condemned Wumi’s violent attack, but stopped short of committing to any law reform. “Whether the heart attack was caused by that attack. I’m not qualified to be able to make that call, but I understand that this case is very distressing and it’s heartbreaking,” he said. “And we will obviously take any advice in relation to ensuring that we do everything we can to reduce and eliminate family domestic violence in our community.” https://www.theage.com.au/national/western-australia/they-are-not-a-punching-bag-for-your-anger-court-finds-man-who-punched-woman-40-times-did-not-contribute-to-her-death-20240506-p5fp9y.html

How the Judge could come to that conclusion with a clear conscience is unbelievable.

Just because she had an underlying health issue.

It was the beating that put her system under stress and caused the the underlying issues to elevate.

Absolute morally callous technical disregard for the violence incurred.

Reminds me of an incident years ago, the Police were called to attend the local Railway yards 400mtrs from the Police Station because an Aboriginal youth who was "chroming" was wandering around the tracks, off his face whilst we were trying to shunt in the yard.

We couldn't do anything whilst he was there, the coppers took their own damned time getting there and did nothing.

Their response when questioned why wasn't the youth removed was that chronic chromers have underlying health issues and when high on the aerosol, if chased or apprehended and they struggle/resist .... their elevated blood pressure could cause a stroke or heart attack.

So don't tell me the beating this woman received didn't cause her death.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 9^th, 2024 at 10:04pm:

Time to say NO!  Better to go to full scale and get it over than endure this daily lawfare of the death of a thousand cu*ts.... the list just grows and grows ... do you feel no shame over your crass betrayal of this country that feeds you so well?

You didn't address my post.  I feel no shame for facing the fact that people - all people - are blinded by clinging to their own culture.

Most smart blacks are willing to join the modern world, all they want is jobs.

As for religious mumbo jumbo ("sacred sites", etc) - we all fight over it eg Jews/Christians versus Moslems.   

Delusion.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 10^th, 2024 at 12:04pm:

Delusion.

Er... the idea is to defend and prove the correctness of your case.

The pity is you are the one who is deluded by a subjective awareness of freedom, a concept explored in FD's 'foundations' thread, but which he has abandoned because of his own delusions.

The "human condition" .....  ouch.

aborigines were doing well as stockmen

---

aborigines thrived at church missions like hopevale

---

under 100's of billions of dollars flowing from canberra to fund leftie intellectual narcisitic fake compassion programs (basicly sit down money, public servant teachers, social workers, pyschologists and other hangers on (grifters)
aborigines have gone backwards in 17 of the 19 measures of the governments own closing the gap initiative.

one would think the facts speak for themselves

aquascoot wrote on May 10^th, 2024 at 12:26pm:

under 100's of billions of dollars flowing from canberra to fund leftie intellectual narcisitic fake compassion programs (basicly sit down money, public servant teachers, social workers, pyschologists and other hangers on (grifters) aborigines have gone backwards in 17 of the 19 measures of the governments own closing the gap initiative. one would think the facts speak for themselves

ie the poverty industry.

Right in all three posts.

Amazing. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18^th, 2023 at 4:17pm:

Of course it does, that's why the voice referendum will be held; ie they believe it will assist in closing the gap.

That is the problem they have.  It wasn't how the voice was going to aid in reaching that goal.

It's the goal that the problem.

Well - when your goal is control over land, water and resources - I tend to consider that supremacism and tyranny  ... must be just me ....

I think I WILL claim that beach next time I walk across it.... the whole bloody lot .... now then - where did my ancestors travel in Australia ... hmmm ... gotta be a native title claim there somewhere... I'm native to this land... it's MY land!!

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10^th, 2024 at 12:17pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 10th, 2024 at 12:04pm: Delusion. Er... the idea is to defend and prove the correctness of your case. The pity is you are the one who is deluded by a subjective awareness of freedom, a concept explored in FD's 'foundations' thread, but which he has abandoned because of his own delusions. The "human condition" .....  ouch.

Delusion ....

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 5:50pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2024 at 12:17pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 10th, 2024 at 12:04pm: Delusion. Er... the idea is to defend and prove the correctness of your case. The pity is you are the one who is deluded by a subjective awareness of freedom, a concept explored in FD's 'foundations' thread, but which he has abandoned because of his own delusions. The "human condition" .....  ouch. Delusion ....

Funny, seeing this written immediaetly below:

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams


You apparently think "facts " can be established - are "self-evident"  -  merely by repeating the word "delusion" ..

I have bad news for you...

thegreatdivide wrote on May 22^nd, 2024 at 1:13pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 21st, 2024 at 5:50pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2024 at 12:17pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 10th, 2024 at 12:04pm: Delusion. Er... the idea is to defend and prove the correctness of your case. The pity is you are the one who is deluded by a subjective awareness of freedom, a concept explored in FD's 'foundations' thread, but which he has abandoned because of his own delusions. The "human condition" .....  ouch. Delusion .... Funny, seeing this written immediaetly below: “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams You apparently think "facts " can be established - are "self-evident"  -  merely by repeating the word "delusion" .. I have bad news for you...

Just accept your position as Dr Goebbels - repeat silliness often enough and it becomes the reality in your own mind... that's the problem with transgenderism.

How's the UN doing with Gaza?  Still trying to blame the victim?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 22^nd, 2024 at 1:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 1:13pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 21st, 2024 at 5:50pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2024 at 12:17pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 10th, 2024 at 12:04pm: Delusion. Er... the idea is to defend and prove the correctness of your case. The pity is you are the one who is deluded by a subjective awareness of freedom, a concept explored in FD's 'foundations' thread, but which he has abandoned because of his own delusions. The "human condition" .....  ouch. Delusion .... Funny, seeing this written immediaetly below: “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams You apparently think "facts " can be established - are "self-evident"  -  merely by repeating the word "delusion" .. I have bad news for you... Just accept your position as Dr Goebbels

Goebbels was promoting an ideology, I'm promoting universal well-being and security. Spot the difference?



Quote:

- repeat silliness often enough and it becomes the reality in your own mind... that's the problem with transgenderism.

I didn't say anything about transgenderism.

You like  "facts" and "evidence" - as in Adam's remark?

ROTFL. 


Quote:

How's the UN doing with Gaza?  Still trying to blame the victim?

Disastrously, but finally getting around to implementing UN res 242, after all the obfuscation and hindering by Israel, backed by the looney conservative  Christian Right in the US. (eg, with  Pompeo calling for Armegeddon and "the rapture", during the  Trump administration, to hasten the 2nd coming of Christ)

"Goebbels was promoting an ideology, I'm promoting universal well-being and security. Spot the difference?"

YES!  One is an ideology - the other is an ideology disguised as motherhood statements!

---

"Of the 81 women killed in domestic violence incidents in the NT since 2000, 76 were from First Nations communities."

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nt-coroner-nearing-the-end-of-domestic-violence-inquiry/vi-BB1mOqqZ?ocid=winp2fptaskbar&cvid=7ee1b8b7dc1a4311d36338b645660776&ei=6&sc=shoreline#details

I'm guessing she just wouldn't listen, ay?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 22^nd, 2024 at 2:31pm:

"Goebbels was promoting an ideology, I'm promoting universal well-being and security. Spot the difference?" YES!  One is an ideology - the other is an ideology disguised as motherhood statements!

Neat .....so a motherhood statement - something we all want (in this case, well-being and security) - is a "disguise" for an ideology.

Only a blind self-interest-based  ideologue could come up with that formulation.

btw, re the UN finally implementing UN res 242:

tweet from Bob Carr, former Oz foreign minister with contacts in overseas governments:

Bob Carr
@bobjcarr
I’m told Norway, Spain & Ireland will make a coordinated announcement announcing a joint move to recognise Palestine on 1967 borders. All will formally recognise on May 28 once internal processes are done. Slovenia will follow on June 13. Belgium and France also in play.

It seems Israel has overplayed its hand....apart from being brought before the ICC....

Zo - vat iss zis 'ideology' of promoting universal well-being?

When such a motherhood statement is disguising the intention of putting in control a specified small group, you are promoting an ideology of rule by minority, and history tells us clearly where that leads.

It is simply NOT possible to 'promote universal well-being'  for those who do not 'know the ropes' and/or who do not wish to co-operate in their own salvation, and the course of handing total power to a select group to impose this is fraught with danger - that danger being the total loss of sovereignty of individual and community to self-appointed 'elite' group - such as has been occurring in Australia now for decades.

On a worldwide scale - the amazing presumption is that handing over all national sovereignty to a blatantly corrupt and biased body - the UN - will suddenly solve all problems.  Again, history shows us that will never be the case.

Nobody in his/her right mind would consider such foolishness with regard to a body that condemns the victim for being attacked and its citizens brutally murdered.

Note:-  Israel has UNDER-played its hand in pursuit of the ideal of not killing innocent civilians... and thus allowed a delay that enabled 'world opinion' manipulated by liars to turn against the victim of a vile series of crimes.  Should've gone for the kill from the start and now the world media would have forgotten about the whole thing.. no headlines in it...

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 22^nd, 2024 at 2:39pm:

"Of the 81 women killed in domestic violence incidents in the NT since 2000, 76 were from First Nations communities." https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nt-coroner-nearing-the-end-of-domestic-violence-inquiry/vi-BB1mOqqZ?ocid=winp2fptaskbar&cvid=7ee1b8b7dc1a4311d36338b645660776&ei=6&sc=shoreline#details I'm guessing she just wouldn't listen, ay?

Do try to remain on topic - not ectopic...

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 22^nd, 2024 at 3:45pm:

Zo - vat iss zis 'ideology' of promoting universal well-being?

Did you miss it?

The "ideology" of the UNUDHR, presently defenceless in our current vicious 'individual sovereignty'  neanderthal ideology ruling the world.


Quote:

When such a motherhood statement is disguising the intention of putting in control a specified small group, you are promoting an ideology of rule by minority, and history tells us clearly where that leads.

 

I admire your brave attempt to bring "logic" to your argument.

But your error in logic there: international law is not rule by (an ideologically-driven) minority, it is rule by.....law.

The issue is the nature of the law, see the articles defined in the UNUDHR.   


Quote:

It is simply NOT possible to 'promote universal well-being'  for those who do not 'know the ropes' and/or who do not wish to co-operate in their own salvation,

International law is certainly a work in progress, but don't make the mistake of rejecting it on 'individual sovereignty'  ideological grounds just because previous atempts to ensure the wellbeing of the collective have failed.


Quote:

and the course of handing total power to a select group to impose this is fraught with danger - that danger being the total loss of sovereignty of individual and community to self-appointed 'elite' group -

Not if the 'select group' is imbued with the principles of the UNUDHR, rather than to exclusive ideologies held by different groups.


Quote:

such as has been occurring in Australia now for decades.

All the result of confusion over matters of 'sovereignty' for different groups, and a battle - driven by self-interest - over public versus private control of the means of production and distribution.


Quote:

On a worldwide scale - the amazing presumption is that handing over all national sovereignty to a blatantly corrupt and biased body - the UN - will suddenly solve all problems.  Again, history shows us that will never be the case.

 

Never say never; the problems in the UN are due to confusion over the issues of 'sovereignty'  - which currently renders null and void the effectiveness of international law. 


Quote:

Nobody in his/her right mind would consider such foolishness with regard to a body that condemns the victim for being attacked and its citizens brutally murdered.

Now you are just showing your ideological blindness: the UN wanted to create two states living in peace, but only recognised one of them.


Quote:

Note:-  Israel has UNDER-played its hand in pursuit of the ideal of not killing innocent civilians...

Now you are showing your contempt for life, and the international law required to protect life,  given murderousness of tribal instincts.


Quote:

and thus allowed a delay that enabled 'world opinion' manipulated by liars to turn against the victim of a vile series of crimes.  Should've gone for the kill from the start and now the world media would have forgotten about the whole thing.. no headlines in it...

Reality check: if the IDF had murdered the entire Gazan population ..."gone for the kill", the world media would NOT have forgotten by now, because the issue of the occupation of the WB would be even more pressing than it is now.   

Poor old UN - seems nobody wants to be governed and controlled by a majority of rat-infested, gutters overflowing with filth, mud hut, law of the jungle (yes - even your fabled ayatollahs etc), power-hungry, misogynistic, West-hating, chip on the shoulder, semi-educated at best cultural deficient countries .... no surprise.

Now then - which Aboriginal disaster do you want to discuss today?  76 out of 81 by 30.8% of the population of the Terr'Uh'Tree?  We all know that general figure will be evenly spread across Australia once the balls get rolling properly on DV and woman murders - what is amazing is that the NT Coroner actually had the ovaries to truth-tell it as it is.

Break it down by demographic, they said.... nah, nah, said the Black 'truth-tellers', that's 'racism' - clearly they had plenty to hide...

"international law is not rule " .....

Fixed for ya....  YOU drink it ...........

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 23^rd, 2024 at 7:22pm:

Poor old UN - seems nobody wants to be governed and controlled by a majority of rat-infested, gutters overflowing with filth, mud hut, law of the jungle (yes - even your fabled ayatollahs etc), power-hungry, misogynistic, West-hating, chip on the shoulder, semi-educated at best cultural deficient countries .... no surprise.

Well, that's correct;  but that's not anything to do with  why have "the poor old UN".


Quote:

Now then - which Aboriginal disaster do you want to discuss today?  76 out of 81 by 30.8% of the population of the Terr'Uh'Tree?  We all know that general figure will be evenly spread across Australia once the balls get rolling properly on DV and woman murders - what is amazing is that the NT Coroner actually had the ovaries to truth-tell it as it is.

I want the government to deal with ALL "aboriginal disasters" (as measured by the gap), as far as is possible. 


Quote:

Break it down by demographic, they said.... nah, nah, said the Black 'truth-tellers', that's 'racism' - clearly they had plenty to hide...

I agree denial of facts will not assist in closing the gap.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 7:04pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 7:22pm: Poor old UN - seems nobody wants to be governed and controlled by a majority of rat-infested, gutters overflowing with filth, mud hut, law of the jungle (yes - even your fabled ayatollahs etc), power-hungry, misogynistic, West-hating, chip on the shoulder, semi-educated at best cultural deficient countries .... no surprise. Well, that's correct;  but that's not anything to do with  why have "the poor old UN". Quote: Now then - which Aboriginal disaster do you want to discuss today?  76 out of 81 by 30.8% of the population of the Terr'Uh'Tree?  We all know that general figure will be evenly spread across Australia once the balls get rolling properly on DV and woman murders - what is amazing is that the NT Coroner actually had the ovaries to truth-tell it as it is. I want the government to deal with ALL "aboriginal disasters" (as measured by the gap), as far as is possible.  [quote]Break it down by demographic, they said.... nah, nah, said the Black 'truth-tellers', that's 'racism' - clearly they had plenty to hide...

I agree denial of facts will not assist in closing the gap.
[/quote]

You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it?

ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 7:55am:

You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it?[/quote]

White flag accepted, champ.  I'm just going along with Michael Mansell and the idea of a Two State Solution.... it's a bi-partition issue, you know.

I have nothing to do with any gaps or opening or closing them.  You need to stop smoking that stuff.  God you fools grasp for some desperate things to try to make your claims.... what are you?  Twelve years old?

Which reminds me - the NT coroner has stated on the evidence that 76 out of 81 women killed in the Terr'Uh'Tree since 2000 were Aboriginal women.  I take it your silly pushing some clinically insane agenda is more important.... do you even know what your agenda is?

ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 7:55am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24th, 2024 at 7:04pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 7:22pm: Poor old UN - seems nobody wants to be governed and controlled by a majority of rat-infested, gutters overflowing with filth, mud hut, law of the jungle (yes - even your fabled ayatollahs etc), power-hungry, misogynistic, West-hating, chip on the shoulder, semi-educated at best cultural deficient countries .... no surprise. Well, that's correct;  but that's not anything to do with  why have "the poor old UN". Quote: Now then - which Aboriginal disaster do you want to discuss today?  76 out of 81 by 30.8% of the population of the Terr'Uh'Tree?  We all know that general figure will be evenly spread across Australia once the balls get rolling properly on DV and woman murders - what is amazing is that the NT Coroner actually had the ovaries to truth-tell it as it is. I want the government to deal with ALL "aboriginal disasters" (as measured by the gap), as far as is possible.  [quote]Break it down by demographic, they said.... nah, nah, said the Black 'truth-tellers', that's 'racism' - clearly they had plenty to hide... I agree denial of facts will not assist in closing the gap.

You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it?[/quote]

Yes, for graps it's all a matter of 'personal responsibility', he denies the reality of entrenched/systemic socio-economic  disadvantage which CAN be eradicated by the state; entrenched poverty is a political choice of the government, not an economic necessity.


But denial, or concealing the consequences of entrenched poverty eg high crime and DV rates, won't assist in closing the gap.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 5:58pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am: thegreatdivide wrote on May 24th, 2024 at 7:04pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 7:22pm: Poor old UN - seems nobody wants to be governed and controlled by a majority of rat-infested, gutters overflowing with filth, mud hut, law of the jungle (yes - even your fabled ayatollahs etc), power-hungry, misogynistic, West-hating, chip on the shoulder, semi-educated at best cultural deficient countries .... no surprise. Well, that's correct;  but that's not anything to do with  why have "the poor old UN". Quote: Now then - which Aboriginal disaster do you want to discuss today?  76 out of 81 by 30.8% of the population of the Terr'Uh'Tree?  We all know that general figure will be evenly spread across Australia once the balls get rolling properly on DV and woman murders - what is amazing is that the NT Coroner actually had the ovaries to truth-tell it as it is. I want the government to deal with ALL "aboriginal disasters" (as measured by the gap), as far as is possible.  [quote]Break it down by demographic, they said.... nah, nah, said the Black 'truth-tellers', that's 'racism' - clearly they had plenty to hide... I agree denial of facts will not assist in closing the gap. You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it?

Yes, for graps it's all a matter of 'personal responsibility', he denies the reality of entrenched/systemic socio-economic  disadvantage which CAN be eradicated by the state; entrenched poverty is a political choice of the government, not an economic necessity.


But denial, or concealing the consequences of entrenched poverty eg high crime and DV rates, won't assist in closing the gap.
[/quote]

Is there such a thing as personal responsibility in your conception of the way the human world is?

Or is EVERYONE is an automaton, subject to forces completely outside his control - responsibility? Everyone, including you. So what IS controlling you? What IS making you say what you do say? What are the forces you are a helpless puppet to?

(Total ignorance and stupidity. Ed.)

Frank wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 6:14pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 5:58pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am: thegreatdivide wrote on May 24th, 2024 at 7:04pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 7:22pm: Poor old UN - seems nobody wants to be governed and controlled by a majority of rat-infested, gutters overflowing with filth, mud hut, law of the jungle (yes - even your fabled ayatollahs etc), power-hungry, misogynistic, West-hating, chip on the shoulder, semi-educated at best cultural deficient countries .... no surprise. Well, that's correct;  but that's not anything to do with  why have "the poor old UN". Quote: Now then - which Aboriginal disaster do you want to discuss today?  76 out of 81 by 30.8% of the population of the Terr'Uh'Tree?  We all know that general figure will be evenly spread across Australia once the balls get rolling properly on DV and woman murders - what is amazing is that the NT Coroner actually had the ovaries to truth-tell it as it is. I want the government to deal with ALL "aboriginal disasters" (as measured by the gap), as far as is possible.  [quote]Break it down by demographic, they said.... nah, nah, said the Black 'truth-tellers', that's 'racism' - clearly they had plenty to hide... I agree denial of facts will not assist in closing the gap. You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it? Yes, for graps it's all a matter of 'personal responsibility', he denies the reality of entrenched/systemic socio-economic  disadvantage which CAN be eradicated by the state; entrenched poverty is a political choice of the government, not an economic necessity. But denial, or concealing the consequences of entrenched poverty eg high crime and DV rates, won't assist in closing the gap.

Is there such a thing as personal responsibility in your conception of the way the human world is?[/quote]

Yes, "my conception of the world" defines 'personal responsibility'  the same way as google does. 


Quote:

Or is EVERYONE is an automaton, subject to forces completely outside his control - responsibility?

No; everyone is a unique individual dealing with unique socio economic circumstances, SOME OF WHICH are outside the individual's  control  - eg the idiot Oz central-banker Bullock is deliberately trying to force some individuals onto the unemployment scrap heap (- exactly where she herself belongs...)



Quote:

Everyone, including you. So what IS controlling you? What IS making you say what you do say? What are the forces you are a helpless puppet to?

All answered above. For my part I avoid the junk consumer economy like the plague -  most fulfil their role as unaware, obediant little consumers  (lied to by self-interested, profit-seeking  junk advertising)  heading to sickness and an early death. 


Quote:

(Total ignorance and stupidity. Ed.)

Refuted above; you should wait for the reply before you make a gratuitous comment like that. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 6:45pm:

Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 6:14pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 5:58pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am: thegreatdivide wrote on May 24th, 2024 at 7:04pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 7:22pm: Poor old UN - seems nobody wants to be governed and controlled by a majority of rat-infested, gutters overflowing with filth, mud hut, law of the jungle (yes - even your fabled ayatollahs etc), power-hungry, misogynistic, West-hating, chip on the shoulder, semi-educated at best cultural deficient countries .... no surprise. Well, that's correct;  but that's not anything to do with  why have "the poor old UN". Quote: Now then - which Aboriginal disaster do you want to discuss today?  76 out of 81 by 30.8% of the population of the Terr'Uh'Tree?  We all know that general figure will be evenly spread across Australia once the balls get rolling properly on DV and woman murders - what is amazing is that the NT Coroner actually had the ovaries to truth-tell it as it is. I want the government to deal with ALL "aboriginal disasters" (as measured by the gap), as far as is possible.  [quote]Break it down by demographic, they said.... nah, nah, said the Black 'truth-tellers', that's 'racism' - clearly they had plenty to hide... I agree denial of facts will not assist in closing the gap. You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it? Yes, for graps it's all a matter of 'personal responsibility', he denies the reality of entrenched/systemic socio-economic  disadvantage which CAN be eradicated by the state; entrenched poverty is a political choice of the government, not an economic necessity. But denial, or concealing the consequences of entrenched poverty eg high crime and DV rates, won't assist in closing the gap. Is there such a thing as personal responsibility in your conception of the way the human world is?

Yes, "my conception of the world" defines 'personal responsibility'  the same way as google does. 


Quote:

Or is EVERYONE is an automaton, subject to forces completely outside his control - responsibility?

No; everyone is a unique individual dealing with unique socio economic circumstances, SOME OF WHICH are outside the individual's  control  - eg the idiot Oz central-banker Bullock is deliberately trying to force some individuals onto the unemployment scrap heap (- exactly where she herself belongs...)



Quote:

Everyone, including you. So what IS controlling you? What IS making you say what you do say? What are the forces you are a helpless puppet to?

All answered above. For my part I avoid the junk consumer economy like the plague -  most fulfil their role as unaware, obediant little consumers  (lied to by self-interested, profit-seeking  junk advertising)  heading to sickness and an early death. 


Quote:

(Total ignorance and stupidity. Ed.)

Refuted above; you should wait for the reply before you make a gratuitous comment like that. 
[/quote]
So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics?

And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life?

And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you??

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 8:18am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am: You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it? White flag accepted, champ.  I'm just going along with Michael Mansell and the idea of a Two State Solution.... it's a bi-partition issue, you know. I have nothing to do with any gaps or opening or closing them.  You need to stop smoking that stuff.  God you fools grasp for some desperate things to try to make your claims.... what are you?  Twelve years old? Which reminds me - the NT coroner has stated on the evidence that 76 out of 81 women killed in the Terr'Uh'Tree since 2000 were Aboriginal women.  I take it your silly pushing some clinically insane agenda is more important.... do you even know what your agenda is?

You're advocating for segregation in 2024.

It's not a white flag, there is simply no way to hold any rational discussion with someone such as yourself.

the gap is indeed widening and will continue to widen if the victim narrative continues.

the first principle in wise books from steven covey or ekhardt tolle or robert green STRESS the importance that you MUST give up all victim narratives if you are to move ahead.

the left oppress the aborigine by the subtle (not so subtle) racism of low expectations

aquascoot wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 7:31pm:

the gap is indeed widening and will continue to widen if the victim narrative continues. the first principle in wise books from steven covey or ekhardt tolle or robert green STRESS the importance that you MUST give up all victim narratives if you are to move ahead. the left oppress the aborigine by the subtle (not so subtle) racism of low expectations

Class struggle = victim narrative = Marxism.

The victimhood wheeze is a very well developed apparatus of thinking, talking, perceiving etc. There is no relinquishing it because then identity is relinquished. Victimhood is not an add-on, it is the core.

Frank wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 7:13pm:

So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics?

Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents.


Quote:

And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life?

Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background and hence choice. ("Give me the child and I will give you the man"....). 

In fact the junk consumer economy depends on people not making informed choices.


Quote:

And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you??

Answered above: I didn't choose my parents.

Then there's the complicating matter of genes; Trump's brother drank himself to death because of an addiction to grog. Did he "choose" the addiction? You won't be able to answer that question definitively. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 12:12pm:

Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm: So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics? Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents. Quote: And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life? Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background. [quote]And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you??

Answered above: I didn't choose my parents.
[/quote]

So everything is completely out of everyone's hands because nobody choses his parents!  :D :D

And that is the foundation of your world view. Everything is an accident, some accidents are lucky, others not.

But even that judgement, the ability to make YOUR judgement, is entirely based on chance, on your parents, who in turn were entirely dependent on the luck or otherwise of their parents. It is all an gigantic game of chance, all judgements are based on random backgrounds. Nothing can be said to be better or worse because that very value judgement is the random product of family background. YOUR own views are nothing but the product of your background so they carry no weight. They are random, li k e everything else.

You are an idiot, according to my background.

Frank wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 12:23pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 12:12pm: Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm: So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics? Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents. Quote: And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life? Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background. [quote]And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you?? Answered above: I didn't choose my parents.

So everything is completely out of everyone's hands because nobody choses his parents!  :D :D[/quote]

Correct, provided  you replace "everything" and "completely" with some things and "partially", respectively.   

People like Bonner and Dodson have obviously exercized some 'personal responsibility' because a parent taught them.


Quote:

And that is the foundation of your world view. Everything is an accident, some accidents are lucky, others not.

Correct (though your use of the words "completely" and "everything" above  hints at your desperation to make your case)

We all know 'life isn't fair'....; the question is how to ameliorate this reality.


Quote:

But even that judgement, the ability to make YOUR judgement, is entirely based on chance, on your parents,

There's another absolutist  word ie "entirely"; I have my own gentic makeup which influences my own decisions, as well what I learned from my parents teachings and economic circumstances.


Quote:

who in turn were entirely dependent on the luck or otherwise of their parents.

You error there (again): replace "entirely dependent on" with "influenced by". 


Quote:

It is all an gigantic game of chance, all judgements are based on random backgrounds. Nothing can be said to be better or worse because that very value judgement is the random product of family background. YOUR own views are nothing but the product of your background so they carry no weight. They are random, li k e everything else. You are an idiot, according to my background.

A confused mixture of ideas; the effect of chance (for all of us)  is one thing; value judgements are another thing altogether (eg collective versus individual wellbeing).   

And the debate over (individual) freewill versus determinism is not closed.i

Well, what IS exempt from the random chance of "I didn't choose my parents"?


What is exempt from 'everything" and "completely" if your views are subject to random backgrounds and parents?

Frank wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 2:36pm:

Well, what IS exempt from the random chance of "I didn't choose my parents"?

Nothing;  your error in logic arises because you think chance has NO effect on individual outcomes.



Quote:

What is exempt from 'everything" and "completely" if your views are subject to random backgrounds and parents?

My views (while growing up) were influenced by the views of MY parents, NOT random parents.

You  are confusing my hypothetical "choice of parents" with the actual parents I had in this life. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 3:14pm:

Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 2:36pm: Well, what IS exempt from the random chance of "I didn't choose my parents"? Nothing;  your error in logic arises because you think chance has NO effect on individual outcomes. Quote: What is exempt from 'everything" and "completely" if your views are subject to random backgrounds and parents? My views (while growing up) were influenced by the views of MY parents, NOT random parents. You  are confusing my hypothetical "choice of parents" with the actual parents I had in this life.

You didn't choose your parents, so they were random FOR YOU. Being entirely a product of your random circumstances, nothing is your choice, not even your support for the CCP, MMT, nothing. You do not have any individual autonomy, agency, choice.

You are entirely conditioned by your background and things around that you have no power to alter since there is no 'you' only a subject of random outside influences, themselves nothing but effects of other random influences.

You are mere frog's leg, twitching reflexively to electric impulses.

An idiot, in a word.

Frank wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 3:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 3:14pm: Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 2:36pm: Well, what IS exempt from the random chance of "I didn't choose my parents"? Nothing;  your error in logic arises because you think chance has NO effect on individual outcomes. Quote: What is exempt from 'everything" and "completely" if your views are subject to random backgrounds and parents? My views (while growing up) were influenced by the views of MY parents, NOT random parents. You  are confusing my hypothetical "choice of parents" with the actual parents I had in this life.  You didn't choose your parents,

Correct.


Quote:

so they were random FOR YOU.

Incorrect: they begat me, they were my actual parents; nothing random about it. 


Quote:

Being entirely a product of your random circumstances,

Refuted above, you are arguing from a wrong premise.


Quote:

nothing is your choice, not even your support for the CCP, MMT, nothing. You do not have any individual autonomy, agency, choice.

..continuing your GIGO narrative: I can reason and make choices which began on the foundations of my parents' experiences, beliefs and circumstances.

...just like you, but of course your 'foundations' ( as posited above) are very different to  mine.


Quote:

You are entirely conditioned by your background and things around that you have no power to alter since there is no 'you' only a subject of random outside influences, themselves nothing but effects of other random influences.

There's your erroneous misplacement of the word "entirely" again, combined with your errors re randomness.

I can reason, beginning from  the unique circumstances of my birth.


Quote:

An idiot, in a word.

Again, you should have waited until I explained your errors for you.....

Hence you insist on claiming, for example, one of the drunk criminals in the Alice who is abusing his wife, has had exactly the same 'freedom'/opportunity  to prosper, as eg, Jacinta Price.

It's an inadequate ideology.

You, very idiotically, argue against personal responsibility on the basis that you didn't choose your parents, your background or theirs, your circumstances or theirs.

So what  IS of your own making about you?  What falls outside your deterministic conception,outside your accidental, random parenthood, background, circumstances,? What is left to your own personal  - individual! - powers and choices and decisions?

I ask again - WHICH Aboriginal disaster will we start with?  Which one are we looking at now?  So many to choose from.... so little time....

Did me one of them vapid test things last night to see how 'independent' a person I was - I cut to the max as Independent ... sort of an Alpha Independent type...  I don't have bosses - I have underlings and servants ....

ProudKangaroo wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 7:17pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:18am: ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am: You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it? White flag accepted, champ.  I'm just going along with Michael Mansell and the idea of a Two State Solution.... it's a bi-partition issue, you know. I have nothing to do with any gaps or opening or closing them.  You need to stop smoking that stuff.  God you fools grasp for some desperate things to try to make your claims.... what are you?  Twelve years old? Which reminds me - the NT coroner has stated on the evidence that 76 out of 81 women killed in the Terr'Uh'Tree since 2000 were Aboriginal women.  I take it your silly pushing some clinically insane agenda is more important.... do you even know what your agenda is? You're advocating for segregation in 2024. It's not a white flag, there is simply no way to hold any rational discussion with someone such as yourself.

Not at all - I'm just agreeing with Michael Mansell - another white Aborigine - and that huge Tarneen sheila bloated on three Wharte Man jobs from Melbadishu, who are saying they should have an Aboriginal state where they can do their own things... I'm just happy to offer them a separate Two State (Three if you include Politico Island) solution, where on the one hand they can as per their demand 'do things their way' - and on the other we can do things our way.

No problem... no segregation about it since we would not be living in the same land .....they have their own and we have ours... and it's voluntary anyway unless and until one or them plays up too much - those who choose to remain Australians BE Australians (Ausraelis) - those who choose to be Abestinians choose to be Abestinians and responsible for themselves and their own outcomes.... those who act up in the traces and cause problems are shipped to Abestine and left to their 'elders' and local laws.... as is happening in some parts of Ausrael right now behind our backs..... and that doesn't even include the far outback places that nobody wants to visit anyway.....

You'll get there one day....

YOUR kind are the segregationists..... you are the Nazis .... you demand the segregation of separate but equal but only as long as your pets receive all benefits and more of our ways and get to swim in the sea of Wharte Man's benefits and civilisation while contributing nothing positive to that ...............I'm just the voice of reason in the middle of the range ....  Mansell of course envisages the very best seafront land for HIS idea of a state....

When was the last time you saw an Abo take out a franchise on a MacFries or similar and make something of self?

Ask yourself this - if the 'missions' and 'reservations' were such a disaster for them - why does Arnhem Land remain as a 'reservation'?   A.  because THEY want it that way!!

Maybe I'll look at AL as Abestine etc... same crocs and such and right there ready to go  .... and Farencue could be retained for a Cape Canaveral of the future .... no need to pay royalties there then ....

Here's a plan for yez...  Three State Solution right in front of you.

Ooooh - it's Reconciliation Week!!  All one way as usual and a WEEK!!  Big pardy, Errol!!

"National Reconciliation Week (NRW) started as the Week of Prayer for Reconciliation in 1993"

Death of a Salesman - "Happy is 32 years old! When is he going to find himself?"

When are they going to figure out that you will NEVER 'reconcile' while ever you applaud one side forever....

---

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 3:19pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:17pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:18am: ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am: You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it? White flag accepted, champ.  I'm just going along with Michael Mansell and the idea of a Two State Solution.... it's a bi-partition issue, you know. I have nothing to do with any gaps or opening or closing them.  You need to stop smoking that stuff.  God you fools grasp for some desperate things to try to make your claims.... what are you?  Twelve years old? Which reminds me - the NT coroner has stated on the evidence that 76 out of 81 women killed in the Terr'Uh'Tree since 2000 were Aboriginal women.  I take it your silly pushing some clinically insane agenda is more important.... do you even know what your agenda is? You're advocating for segregation in 2024. It's not a white flag, there is simply no way to hold any rational discussion with someone such as yourself. Not at all - I'm just agreeing with Michael Mansell - another white Aborigine - and that huge Tarneen sheila bloated on three Wharte Man jobs from Melbadishu, who are saying they should have an Aboriginal state where they can do their own things... I'm just happy to offer them a separate Two State (Three if you include Politico Island) solution, where on the one hand they can as per their demand 'do things their way' - and on the other we can do things our way. No problem... no segregation about it since we would not be living in the same land .....they have their own and we have ours... and it's voluntary anyway unless and until one or them plays up too much - those who choose to remain Australians BE Australians (Ausraelis) - those who choose to be Abestinians choose to be Abestinians and responsible for themselves and their own outcomes.... those who act up in the traces and cause problems are shipped to Abestine and left to their 'elders' and local laws.... as is happening in some parts of Ausrael right now behind our backs..... and that doesn't even include the far outback places that nobody wants to visit anyway..... You'll get there one day.... YOUR kind are the segregationists..... you are the Nazis .... you demand the segregation of separate but equal but only as long as your pets receive all benefits and more of our ways and get to swim in the sea of Wharte Man's benefits and civilisation while contributing nothing positive to that ...............I'm just the voice of reason in the middle of the range ....  Mansell of course envisages the very best seafront land for HIS idea of a state.... When was the last time you saw an Abo take out a franchise on a MacFries or similar and make something of self? Ask yourself this - if the 'missions' and 'reservations' were such a disaster for them - why does Arnhem Land remain as a 'reservation'?   A.  because THEY want it that way!! Maybe I'll look at AL as Abestine etc... same crocs and such and right there ready to go  .... and Farencue could be retained for a Cape Canaveral of the future .... no need to pay royalties there then ....

You are not wrong there.

Aborigines, in reality, are not any more homogenous than Europeans. But since there is an Aboriginal industry, we hear mostly from Aborigines invested in maintaining, growing that industry.
Land the ignorant, head tilting whites, wishing to remain ignorant but their conscience salved, clap along with the "Abo-Irish" Aristocracy.

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 3:01pm:

You, very idiotically, argue against personal responsibility on the basis that you didn't choose your parents, your background or theirs, your circumstances or theirs.

Sigh....wrong again: I argue my 'personal responsibility' (ie, the personal choices I make)  is not absolute, and is influenced by my experience of my parents' circumstances.   


Quote:

So what  IS of your own making about you?

See above. The complex interaction of external influences and internal choices since birth has shaped who I am now. 


Quote:

What falls outside your deterministic conception,outside your accidental, random parenthood, background, circumstances,? What is left to your own personal  - individual! - powers and choices and decisions?

The capacity to reason and act, within the confines of my external circumstances.

In short, criminals aren't born, they are made; that's what  Hugo wanted to show:

"In Les Misérables, Hugo asserts that love and compassion are the most important gifts one person can give another and that always displaying these qualities should be the most important goal in life."

In the real world, love and compassion - even from parents - is not assured.

Hence we need governments to fill the breach. 

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 3:02pm:

I ask again - WHICH Aboriginal disaster will we start with?  Which one are we looking at now?  So many to choose from.... so little time....

 

Let's  start with fixing the gap.


Quote:

Did me one of them vapid test things last night to see how 'independent' a person I was - I cut to the max as Independent ... sort of an Alpha Independent type...  I don't have bosses - I have underlings and servants ....

Your own experience is unique to you, what government needs to do is close the gap.

Start using your brain. 

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 5:54pm:

Here's a plan for yez...  Three State Solution right in front of you. Ooooh - it's Reconciliation Week!!  All one way as usual and a WEEK!!  Big pardy, Errol!! "National Reconciliation Week (NRW) started as the Week of Prayer for Reconciliation in 1993" Death of a Salesman - "Happy is 32 years old! When is he going to find himself?" When are they going to figure out that you will NEVER 'reconcile' while ever you applaud one side forever....

Yes, largely a lot of nonsense; what is really needed is systemic change to get rid of the very poverty industry which you support.

Step 1.

Train and employ everyone, according to his ability - a community-wide project requiring government management. 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2024 at 11:39am:

Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 3:01pm: You, very idiotically, argue against personal responsibility on the basis that you didn't choose your parents, your background or theirs, your circumstances or theirs. Sigh....wrong again: I argue my 'personal responsibility' (ie, the personal choices I make)  is not absolute, and is influenced by my experience of my parents' circumstances.    Quote: So what  IS of your own making about you?  See above. The complex interaction of external influences and internal choices since birth has shaped who I am now.  [quote] What falls outside your deterministic conception,outside your accidental, random parenthood, background, circumstances,? What is left to your own personal  - individual! - powers and choices and decisions?

The capacity to reason and act, within the confines of my external circumstances.

In short, criminals aren't born, they are made; that's what  Hugo wanted to show:

"In Les Misérables, Hugo asserts that love and compassion are the most important gifts one person can give another and that always displaying these qualities should be the most important goal in life."

In the real world, love and compassion - even from parents - is not assured.

Hence we need governments to fill the breach. 






[/quote]

thats about as insane as it gets


the government is now your intimate partner, your soulmate
the government that treats you like furniture :D :D

you might as well say we rely on mother nature to treat us with love and compassion.
:D :D :D :D :D

mother nature is brutal, as is the government.


help
help
please help me

when i was a child my mummy and daddy would always come and solve my problems
are you my mummy . mr government?
are you my daddy?

can i suckle on your breasts like when i was a toddler
i feel tired now '
i feel weak and small
i might poo my nappy
i might throw a tantrum


your message great divide is insane to any person with a modicum of self respect

Frank wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 6:24pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 3:19pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:17pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:18am: ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am: You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it? White flag accepted, champ.  I'm just going along with Michael Mansell and the idea of a Two State Solution.... it's a bi-partition issue, you know. I have nothing to do with any gaps or opening or closing them.  You need to stop smoking that stuff.  God you fools grasp for some desperate things to try to make your claims.... what are you?  Twelve years old? Which reminds me - the NT coroner has stated on the evidence that 76 out of 81 women killed in the Terr'Uh'Tree since 2000 were Aboriginal women.  I take it your silly pushing some clinically insane agenda is more important.... do you even know what your agenda is? You're advocating for segregation in 2024. It's not a white flag, there is simply no way to hold any rational discussion with someone such as yourself. Not at all - I'm just agreeing with Michael Mansell - another white Aborigine - and that huge Tarneen sheila bloated on three Wharte Man jobs from Melbadishu, who are saying they should have an Aboriginal state where they can do their own things... I'm just happy to offer them a separate Two State (Three if you include Politico Island) solution, where on the one hand they can as per their demand 'do things their way' - and on the other we can do things our way. No problem... no segregation about it since we would not be living in the same land .....they have their own and we have ours... and it's voluntary anyway unless and until one or them plays up too much - those who choose to remain Australians BE Australians (Ausraelis) - those who choose to be Abestinians choose to be Abestinians and responsible for themselves and their own outcomes.... those who act up in the traces and cause problems are shipped to Abestine and left to their 'elders' and local laws.... as is happening in some parts of Ausrael right now behind our backs..... and that doesn't even include the far outback places that nobody wants to visit anyway..... You'll get there one day.... YOUR kind are the segregationists..... you are the Nazis .... you demand the segregation of separate but equal but only as long as your pets receive all benefits and more of our ways and get to swim in the sea of Wharte Man's benefits and civilisation while contributing nothing positive to that ...............I'm just the voice of reason in the middle of the range ....  Mansell of course envisages the very best seafront land for HIS idea of a state.... When was the last time you saw an Abo take out a franchise on a MacFries or similar and make something of self? Ask yourself this - if the 'missions' and 'reservations' were such a disaster for them - why does Arnhem Land remain as a 'reservation'?   A.  because THEY want it that way!! Maybe I'll look at AL as Abestine etc... same crocs and such and right there ready to go  .... and Farencue could be retained for a Cape Canaveral of the future .... no need to pay royalties there then .... You are not wrong there.

Well, I agree the call to separate sovereignty and segregation is wrong-headed, but graps is all over the shop on the matter, with his posited "2- (or 3)- state solution"; and he thinks welfare dependency is a grand state desired by blacks....

ProudKangaroo wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 7:17pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:18am: ProudKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am: You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it? White flag accepted, champ.  I'm just going along with Michael Mansell and the idea of a Two State Solution.... it's a bi-partition issue, you know. I have nothing to do with any gaps or opening or closing them.  You need to stop smoking that stuff.  God you fools grasp for some desperate things to try to make your claims.... what are you?  Twelve years old? Which reminds me - the NT coroner has stated on the evidence that 76 out of 81 women killed in the Terr'Uh'Tree since 2000 were Aboriginal women.  I take it your silly pushing some clinically insane agenda is more important.... do you even know what your agenda is? You're advocating for segregation in 2024. It's not a white flag, there is simply no way to hold any rational discussion with someone such as yourself.

Really?

Who have been granted over 50% of Australias land mass in Native title claims and wants to lock up vast swathes of that, which includes areas once accessible to all Australians?

Is that not segregation & whitey stay out?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 12:12pm:

Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm: So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics? Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents. Quote: And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life? Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background and hence choice. ("Give me the child and I will give you the man"....).  In fact the junk consumer economy depends on people not making informed choices. [quote]And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you??

Answered above: I didn't choose my parents.

Then there's the complicating matter of genes; Trump's brother drank himself to death because of an addiction to grog. Did he "choose" the addiction? You won't be able to answer that question definitively. 
[/quote]

What have your parents got to do with "you" the supposed adult person and how you operate in the world?

No one chooses their parents ::)

aquascoot wrote on May 30^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 11:39am: Frank wrote on May 29th, 2024 at 3:01pm: You, very idiotically, argue against personal responsibility on the basis that you didn't choose your parents, your background or theirs, your circumstances or theirs. Sigh....wrong again: I argue my 'personal responsibility' (ie, the personal choices I make)  is not absolute, and is influenced by my experience of my parents' circumstances.    Quote: So what  IS of your own making about you?  See above. The complex interaction of external influences and internal choices since birth has shaped who I am now.  [quote] What falls outside your deterministic conception,outside your accidental, random parenthood, background, circumstances,? What is left to your own personal  - individual! - powers and choices and decisions? The capacity to reason and act, within the confines of my external circumstances. In short, criminals aren't born, they are made; that's what  Hugo wanted to show: "In Les Misérables, Hugo asserts that love and compassion are the most important gifts one person can give another and that always displaying these qualities should be the most important goal in life." In the real world, love and compassion - even from parents - is not assured. Hence we need governments to fill the breach.

thats about as insane as it gets[/quote]

You include Victor Hugo in that assessment? 



Quote:

the government is now your intimate partner, your soulmate the government that treats you like furniture :D :D

No,  the government job is to manage the competitive desires of individuals, whether that desire is to love or to hate.


Quote:

you might as well say we rely on mother nature to treat us with love and compassion. :D :D :D :D :D

Wrong again, we rely on government to adjudicate competing desires of individuals operating within "mother nature" ie  within the survival of the fittest regime of nature. 


Quote:

mother nature is brutal, as is the government.

The first assertion is correct, the 2nd incorrect: it's up to rule of law to ensure government is a "benevolent authority".   


Quote:

help help please help me

Many individuals would never think of asking for help; crime is a better alternative for some.


Quote:

when i was a child my mummy and daddy would always come and solve my problems[/quoite] You were fortunate, not all were/are so lucky. [quote]are you my mummy . mr government? are you my daddy?

You are confusing different roles. 


Quote:

can i suckle on your breasts like when i was a toddler i feel tired now ' i feel weak and small i might poo my nappy i might throw a tantrum

The government can't supply you with loving mother's breasts; the government CAN ensure everyone can participate in the economy. 


Quote:

your message great divide is insane to any person with a modicum of self respect

The sh*t is hitting the fan now, as I expose your vicious survival of the fittest ideology.

"Self respect"? yeh, I already noted the difficulty many have in asking for help ...I'll take what I want, none of this girly 'asking for help'...

Gnads wrote on May 30^th, 2024 at 12:02pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 12:12pm: Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm: So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics? Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents. Quote: And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life? Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background and hence choice. ("Give me the child and I will give you the man"....).  In fact the junk consumer economy depends on people not making informed choices. [quote]And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you?? Answered above: I didn't choose my parents. Then there's the complicating matter of genes; Trump's brother drank himself to death because of an addiction to grog. Did he "choose" the addiction? You won't be able to answer that question definitively.

What have your parents got to do with "you" the supposed adult person and how you operate in the world?

No one chooses their parents ::)[/quote]

They influenced how I think and act.

Quote:

In the real world, love and compassion - even from parents - is not assured. Hence we need governments to fill the breach.

Could there be something beyond the survival instinct and the quest for happiness? “Poverty and prison . . . give wisdom,” we hear, but what is that wisdom? Not just Solzhenitsyn, but also many others asked this question. This collective autobiography guides us through their answers.

“Here is how it was with many others, not just with me,” Solzhenitsyn explains. One’s first prison experience resembles the sky over Pompeii or the heaven of the Last Judgment “because it was not just anyone who had been arrested, but I—the center of this world.” One thought occurs to everyone: one must vow to survive at any price. And one soon realizes what that means: “at the price of someone else.”

And whoever takes that vow . . . allows his own misfortune to overshadow both the entire common misfortune and the whole world.

This is the great fork of camp life. From this point the roads go to the right and to the left. One of them will rise and the other will descend. If you go to the right—you lose your life, and if you go the left—you lose your conscience.

Solzhenitsyn concedes that at that fork, “at that greater divider of souls,” most choose survival. Intellectuals—resembling many of his Western readers—usually acted swinishly because they could always find a way to justify anything.

One could also expect the worst from those who “accept that pitiful ideology which holds that ‘human beings are created for happiness.’” That, of course, is what most secular Americans take for granted. Reading this book, they are likely to ask: what else could life be about if not individual happiness? Exiled to the West, Solzhenitsyn shocked educated people by criticizing the shallowness of such thinking. Life is not just about oneself, he insisted, and one can expect arrogant bosh from those who think it is. They often responded by dismissing him as a religious fanatic.

Although most prisoners chose survival, many chose conscience, and Solzhenitsyn describes a few he met. They all knew that, according to official Bolshevik atheism, there are no transcendent values. Lenin and his followers scorned such ideas as “human dignity” and the “sanctity of human life.” No, Soviet citizens were taught, only the material result counted, and that meant the only moral standard was the interest of the Communist Party. People who accepted this way of thinking readily concluded that, on the individual level, too, all that matters is what promotes one’s own welfare.

Choosing conscience meant rejecting such thinking. You gradually recognize that “It is not the result that counts . . . but the spirit! Not what—but how.”

https://newcriterion.com/article/the-masterpiece-of-our-time/

Frank wrote on May 30^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

TGDIn the real world, love and compassion - even from parents - is not assured. Hence we need governments to fill the breach. Solzhenitsyn concedes that at that fork, “at that greater divider of souls,” most choose survival. Intellectuals—resembling many of his Western readers—usually acted swinishly because they could always find a way to justify anything.

People instinctively want to survive; nature doesn't give two hoots, and nor does a self-interest-based system; that's why we need a benevolent authority to make law.


Quote:

One could also expect the worst from those who “accept that pitiful ideology which holds that ‘human beings are created for happiness.’” That, of course, is what most secular Americans take for granted. Reading this book, they are likely to ask: what else could life be about if not individual happiness? Exiled to the West, Solzhenitsyn shocked educated people by criticizing the shallowness of such thinking. Life is not just about oneself, he insisted, and one can expect arrogant bosh from those who think it is. They often responded by dismissing him as a religious fanatic.

 

Is he describing the "secular" American, in the land of "the brave and the free"? 


Quote:

Although most prisoners chose survival, many chose conscience, and Solzhenitsyn describes a few he met. They all knew that, according to official Bolshevik atheism, there are no transcendent values. Lenin and his followers scorned such ideas as “human dignity” and the “sanctity of human life.” No, Soviet citizens were taught, only the material result counted, and that meant the only moral standard was the interest of the Communist Party. People who accepted this way of thinking readily concluded that, on the individual level, too, all that matters is what promotes one’s own welfare.

So Solzhenitsyn couldn't conceive of man-made benevolent authority,  while admitting certain  "transcendent" values.   Note: poverty and human dignity are not compatible.


Quote:

Choosing conscience meant rejecting such thinking. You gradually recognize that “It is not the result that counts . . . but the spirit! Not what—but how.”

?? The"spirit" won't give you a full belly, necessary to be free to explore transcendent experience over a long life.   
The 2nd part is correct: HOW can all be free to experience material and spiritual transcendence?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2024 at 12:26pm:

Gnads wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 12:02pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 12:12pm: Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm: So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics? Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents. Quote: And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life? Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background and hence choice. ("Give me the child and I will give you the man"....).  In fact the junk consumer economy depends on people not making informed choices. [quote]And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you?? Answered above: I didn't choose my parents. Then there's the complicating matter of genes; Trump's brother drank himself to death because of an addiction to grog. Did he "choose" the addiction? You won't be able to answer that question definitively.  What have your parents got to do with "you" the supposed adult person and how you operate in the world? No one chooses their parents ::)

They influenced how I think and act.
[/quote]

And do you follow that influence?

Love and compassion from government.... surely the boy is dreaming...

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2024 at 11:58am:

Well, I agree the call to separate sovereignty and segregation is wrong-headed, but graps is all over the shop on the matter, with his posited "2- (or 3)- state solution"; and he thinks welfare dependency is a grand state desired by blacks....

Never said that last - said they need to get into the 21st Century, just like the Arabs etc, and stop all the petty warring with anyone outside their small and limited group.  Every Arab etc village views any 'outsider' as a threat to be extinguished... same with our Abos, which is why they are on the road they are - to nowhere.  On the other hand it is not hard to see the allure - they siren call - of dole money, royalties, and other stuff for nothing as created by the inner city types who scarcely even know one, but who hold positions from which they launch decrees like some Gauleiter in Nazi Germany.

Positing the two and three state solution, alongside various other solutions, is offering options... and the Third State is for politicians to be isolated on and enjoy their own policies in action so they can see how these things work on the ground.  Let's say immigration - let them go to their limited resource island and then we flood it with people from different cultures.

Gondwanamo Bay is for the evil dissidents and terrorists and similar.... it takes real work to become a Gondwanamero ... yet there are plenty of applicants by their own actions...

Gnads wrote on May 30^th, 2024 at 6:55pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 12:26pm: Gnads wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 12:02pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 12:12pm: Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm: So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics? Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents. Quote: And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life? Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background and hence choice. ("Give me the child and I will give you the man"....).  In fact the junk consumer economy depends on people not making informed choices. [quote]And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you?? Answered above: I didn't choose my parents. Then there's the complicating matter of genes; Trump's brother drank himself to death because of an addiction to grog. Did he "choose" the addiction? You won't be able to answer that question definitively.  What have your parents got to do with "you" the supposed adult person and how you operate in the world? No one chooses their parents ::) They influenced how I think and act.

And do you follow that influence?
[/quote]

Yes, whether by following, or reacting against said influence, your actions are influenced by your parents.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 30^th, 2024 at 9:31pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 11:58am: Well, I agree the call to separate sovereignty and segregation is wrong-headed, but graps is all over the shop on the matter, with his posited "2- (or 3)- state solution"; and he thinks welfare dependency is a grand state desired by blacks.... Never said that last -

 

You often extolled the "dream life" of fishing on the dole - supposedly lived by some blacks. 


Quote:

said they need to get into the 21st Century, just like the Arabs etc, and stop all the petty warring with anyone outside their small and limited group.  Every Arab etc village views any 'outsider' as a threat to be extinguished... same with our Abos,

 

You are confusing "Arab" fundamentalists  who want a global  caliphate in the modern world, with blacks who want to preseve an anachronistic culture which is incompatible with the modern world.


Quote:

On the other hand it is not hard to see the allure - they siren call - of dole money, royalties, and other stuff for nothing as created by the inner city types who scarcely even know one, but who hold positions from which they launch decrees like some Gauleiter in Nazi Germany.

ie, the "siren call"  of the poverty industry which you support


Quote:

Positing the two and three state solution, alongside various other solutions, is offering options...

Israel - Palestine, ie, 2 states,  is not an "option", it's international law which the UN failed to deliver.  Whereas 'dual soverignty' in Oz (as per the Uluru statement) is a confusion of sovereignty.


Quote:

and the Third State is for politicians to be isolated on and enjoy their own policies in action so they can see how these things work on the ground.  Let's say immigration - let them go to their limited resource island and then we flood it with people from different cultures.

   

Hookaaay - I'll pass on your spiel re politicians wrong-headed policies, including their failure to close the gap.   


Quote:

Gondwanamo Bay is for the evil dissidents and terrorists and similar.... it takes real work to become a Gondwanamero ... yet there are plenty of applicants by their own actions...

Yes, individuals - apart from extremist ideologues -  are led astray, crushed and turned into criminals by the system. 

Sad.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 1^st, 2024 at 1:16pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 9:31pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 11:58am: Well, I agree the call to separate sovereignty and segregation is wrong-headed, but graps is all over the shop on the matter, with his posited "2- (or 3)- state solution"; and he thinks welfare dependency is a grand state desired by blacks.... Never said that last -   You often extolled the "dream life" of fishing on the dole - supposedly lived by some blacks.  Quote: said they need to get into the 21st Century, just like the Arabs etc, and stop all the petty warring with anyone outside their small and limited group.  Every Arab etc village views any 'outsider' as a threat to be extinguished... same with our Abos,   You are confusing "Arab" fundamentalists  who want a global  caliphate in the modern world, with blacks who want to preseve an anachronistic culture which is incompatible with the modern world. [quote]  On the other hand it is not hard to see the allure - they siren call - of dole money, royalties, and other stuff for nothing as created by the inner city types who scarcely even know one, but who hold positions from which they launch decrees like some Gauleiter in Nazi Germany.

ie, the "siren call"  of the poverty industry which you support


Quote:

Positing the two and three state solution, alongside various other solutions, is offering options...

Israel - Palestine, ie, 2 states,  is not an "option", it's international law which the UN failed to deliver.  Whereas 'dual soverignty' in Oz (as per the Uluru statement) is a confusion of sovereignty.


Quote:

and the Third State is for politicians to be isolated on and enjoy their own policies in action so they can see how these things work on the ground.  Let's say immigration - let them go to their limited resource island and then we flood it with people from different cultures.

   

Hookaaay - I'll pass on your spiel re politicians wrong-headed policies, including their failure to close the gap.   


Quote:

Gondwanamo Bay is for the evil dissidents and terrorists and similar.... it takes real work to become a Gondwanamero ... yet there are plenty of applicants by their own actions...

Yes, individuals - apart from extremist ideologues -  are led astray, crushed and turned into criminals by the system. 

Sad.
[/quote]

Nonsense as usual..... you reckon getting all the mod cons for free while living on the coast and not having to go to work etc is not a dream lifestyle?  Put your head on straight - I use that to show you about comparative prosperity - and you totally ignore the poor Abo kid in the big city who couch surfs etc.

You're just plain slow, is all.

There's a 'poverty industry' in free dole money, royalty money, and excessive handouts amounting to the billions?

Man - that's the kind of poverty industry all who live in poverty would love to get ...

You need to get out more.

I say give 'em their own state - just not one where they get to sit on every street corner and just stop things and make trouble whenever they feel like it - let them do that among themselves as they demand.

I'm not going to explain simple realities to you over and over - they cannot swim in the sea of white prosperity and such while causing trouble for it at every tune and whining about it and demanding change and special treatment all the time - people have a right to just get on with their lives - so they can go to their own state as Mansell demands.... just not by coursing through the veins of Australia like cancer cells.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 1^st, 2024 at 2:51pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 1st, 2024 at 1:16pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 9:31pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 30th, 2024 at 11:58am: Well, I agree the call to separate sovereignty and segregation is wrong-headed, but graps is all over the shop on the matter, with his posited "2- (or 3)- state solution"; and he thinks welfare dependency is a grand state desired by blacks.... Never said that last -   You often extolled the "dream life" of fishing on the dole - supposedly lived by some blacks.  Quote: said they need to get into the 21st Century, just like the Arabs etc, and stop all the petty warring with anyone outside their small and limited group.  Every Arab etc village views any 'outsider' as a threat to be extinguished... same with our Abos,   You are confusing "Arab" fundamentalists  who want a global  caliphate in the modern world, with blacks who want to preseve an anachronistic culture which is incompatible with the modern world. [quote]  On the other hand it is not hard to see the allure - they siren call - of dole money, royalties, and other stuff for nothing as created by the inner city types who scarcely even know one, but who hold positions from which they launch decrees like some Gauleiter in Nazi Germany. ie, the "siren call"  of the poverty industry which you support [quote]Positing the two and three state solution, alongside various other solutions, is offering options...

Israel - Palestine, ie, 2 states,  is not an "option", it's international law which the UN failed to deliver.  Whereas 'dual soverignty' in Oz (as per the Uluru statement) is a confusion of sovereignty.


Quote:

and the Third State is for politicians to be isolated on and enjoy their own policies in action so they can see how these things work on the ground.  Let's say immigration - let them go to their limited resource island and then we flood it with people from different cultures.

   

Hookaaay - I'll pass on your spiel re politicians wrong-headed policies, including their failure to close the gap.   


Quote:

Gondwanamo Bay is for the evil dissidents and terrorists and similar.... it takes real work to become a Gondwanamero ... yet there are plenty of applicants by their own actions...

Yes, individuals - apart from extremist ideologues -  are led astray, crushed and turned into criminals by the system. 

Sad.
[/quote]

Nonsense as usual..... you reckon getting all the mod cons for free while living on the coast and not having to go to work etc is not a dream lifestyle? [/quote]

Reality check, you can't buy all the "mod cons" while subsisting on the dole.  Ask the welfare-dependent  people in Ceduna and the Alice.


Quote:

Put your head on straight - I use that to show you about comparative prosperity - and you totally ignore the poor Abo kid in the big city who couch surfs etc. You're just plain slow, is all.

Reality check: couch surfing isn't a dream lifestyle either.

Of course not!  When you live beachfront the Gu'mint gives you an air conditioned tornado proof house nowadays and provides you with all the goodies to go fishing while paying you the dole and not even reducing it when you cop royalties for everything, or even expect you to participate in WftD..

Now you are getting there - that Poor Boy in the big city can't buy no mod cons or even get a house... he couch surfs while waiting for the knife fight that might end him ... or his next all expenses paid visit to prison ....

Comparative Prosperity, innit?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2024 at 1:46pm:

Of course not!  When you live beachfront the Gu'mint gives you an air conditioned tornado proof house nowadays and provides you with all the goodies to go fishing while paying you the dole and not even reducing it when you cop royalties for everything, or even expect you to participate in WftD..

Nonsense of course, many are living 14 to a house, social dysfunction is rife, the gap is a national disgrace....and not everyonre lives beachfront, whether welfare dependent or not.   


Quote:

Now you are getting there - that Poor Boy in the big city can't buy no mod cons or even get a house... he couch surfs while waiting for the knife fight that might end him ... or his next all expenses paid visit to prison .... Comparative Prosperity, innit?

Regardless of "comparisons" of welfare-dependent poverty among particular groups, what is your solution?

Aboriginal disaster - still trying to wade through a very long list to sort out exactly which one is under discussion here....

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2024 at 11:36am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 2nd, 2024 at 1:46pm: Of course not!  When you live beachfront the Gu'mint gives you an air conditioned tornado proof house nowadays and provides you with all the goodies to go fishing while paying you the dole and not even reducing it when you cop royalties for everything, or even expect you to participate in WftD.. Nonsense of course, many are living 14 to a house, social dysfunction is rife, the gap is a national disgrace....and not everyonre lives beachfront, whether welfare dependent or not.    Quote: Now you are getting there - that Poor Boy in the big city can't buy no mod cons or even get a house... he couch surfs while waiting for the knife fight that might end him ... or his next all expenses paid visit to prison .... Comparative Prosperity, innit? Regardless of "comparisons" of welfare-dependent poverty among particular groups, what is your solution?

Well - WHY are they living fourteen to a house?  Apart from their choice of 'extended family', you understand....  who creates their 'social dysfunction' that is much more widespread and tenacious in REMOTE communities than anywhere else .... nobody ever said they ALL live beachfront, sandy beaches, rum money every fortnight etc, house provided and no supervision - stop pouring bleach in your eyes, what part of 'compared to the Poor Boy in the city' says precisely that not all live 'beachfront' do you choose to FAIL to see... welfare dependent? 

You can move to find a job.... many prefer not to ... many prefer that lifestyle with money coming in regularly and then whining that is is never enough and more, more... most adhere to the PERSONAL AUTONOMY of choosing to spend their money the way they choose to.... you know .... when are YOU headed out there to preach to them the majesty of removing their personal autonomy/sovereignty and subordinating themselves to the State entirely in order to receive their handout of a 'universal wage' that will only serve to create inflation until any benefit is gone anyway?

How many do you reckon you'll get on board with your theories?   

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2024 at 1:40pm:

Aboriginal disaster - still trying to wade through a very long list to sort out exactly which one is under discussion here....

Busy, busy, busy. A hate spreader's work is never done.

https://i.imgflip.com/8skpxo.jpg

GTTF doesn't understand, doesn't need to understand, doesn't want to understand.

Plagiarist GTTF receives the hate posts from his masters and retransmits them as his work.

A hate spreaders work is never done.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2024 at 1:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 3rd, 2024 at 11:36am: Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 2nd, 2024 at 1:46pm: Of course not!  When you live beachfront the Gu'mint gives you an air conditioned tornado proof house nowadays and provides you with all the goodies to go fishing while paying you the dole and not even reducing it when you cop royalties for everything, or even expect you to participate in WftD.. Nonsense of course, many are living 14 to a house, social dysfunction is rife, the gap is a national disgrace....and not everyonre lives beachfront, whether welfare dependent or not.    Quote: Now you are getting there - that Poor Boy in the big city can't buy no mod cons or even get a house... he couch surfs while waiting for the knife fight that might end him ... or his next all expenses paid visit to prison .... Comparative Prosperity, innit? Regardless of "comparisons" of welfare-dependent poverty among particular groups, what is your solution? Well - WHY are they living fourteen to a house?  Apart from their choice of 'extended family', you understand....  who creates their 'social dysfunction' that is much more widespread and tenacious in REMOTE communities than anywhere else .... nobody ever said they ALL live beachfront, sandy beaches, rum money every fortnight etc, house provided and no supervision - stop pouring bleach in your eyes, what part of 'compared to the Poor Boy in the city' says precisely that not all live 'beachfront' do you choose to FAIL to see... welfare dependent?  You can move to find a job.... many prefer not to ... many prefer that lifestyle with money coming in regularly and then whining that is is never enough and more, more... most adhere to the PERSONAL AUTONOMY of choosing to spend their money the way they choose to.... you know .... when are YOU headed out there to preach to them the majesty of removing their personal autonomy/sovereignty and subordinating themselves to the State entirely in order to receive their handout of a 'universal wage' that will only serve to create inflation until any benefit is gone anyway? How many do you reckon you'll get on board with your theories?

First Nations women and children are disproportionately impacted by family and domestic violence. They are 34 times more likely to be hospitalised due to violence than non-Indigenous women and six times more likely to die as a result of family violence.7 Nov 2023

https://ministers.dss.gov.au/media-releases/13016#:~:text=First%20Nations%20women%20and%20children,a%20result%20of%20family%20violence.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 4^th, 2024 at 1:53pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif

Out of control Aboriginal violence simply bores Bbwiyawn.

He doesn't just ignore it. No. He makes the effort to express his contempt for and boredom with Aboriginal women and children who are  abused and beaten by their men.
Because he is educated and have worked with Abdul 20 years ago. Oh yes.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2024 at 2:43pm:

GTTF doesn't understand, doesn't need to understand, doesn't want to understand. Plagiarist GTTF receives the hate posts from his masters and retransmits them as his work. A hate spreaders work is never done.

Is it similar to your terrorist supporting anti Jewish hate speech?

If not phukk off you low life POS.

Boris wrote on Jun 4^th, 2024 at 10:26am:

First Nations women and children are disproportionately impacted by family and domestic violence. They are 34 times more likely to be hospitalised due to violence than non-Indigenous women and six times more likely to die as a result of family violence.7 Nov 2023 https://ministers.dss.gov.au/media-releases/13016#:~:text=First%20Nations%20women%20and%20children,a%20result%20of%20family%20violence.

All good Boris - except the aren't and never have been "First Nations women and children".

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2024 at 3:12pm:

Well - WHY are they living fourteen to a house?

 

Because the government has failed to ensure housing for everyone, since the post-Thatcher 'small government' ideology became mainstream, reducing the nation's public-housing stock  and forcing-up prices in the private market.     


Quote:

Apart from their choice of 'extended family', you understand....

...caused by family dysfunction - no "choice" involved - but entrenched socio-economic disadvantage.


Quote:

....who creates their 'social dysfunction' that is much more widespread and tenacious in REMOTE communities than anywhere else

We did, and it's our job to fix it.

Note: the newly elected S.African, Indian, and  Mexican governments are facing high unemployment and entrenched ppoverty, and just like you they haven't a clue how to fix it. 

Remote communities can be made to function successfully, but require the right government support - other than via the disastrous 'welfare'-based poverty industry beloved by you.   


Quote:

.... nobody ever said they ALL live beachfront, sandy beaches, rum money every fortnight etc, house provided and no supervision - stop pouring bleach in your eyes, what part of 'compared to the Poor Boy in the city' says precisely that not all live 'beachfront' do you choose to FAIL to see... welfare dependent?

 

Unlike you I choose to see reality: most blacks who have not been destroyed by the poverty industry's enforced welfare dependency are begging for jobs.   


Quote:

You can move to find a job....

Your ignorance of socio-economic disadvantage is egregious: I can move, but someone who has been destroyed by your vicious, imposed, welfare dependency can't.


Quote:

most adhere to the PERSONAL AUTONOMY of choosing to spend their money the way they choose to....

 

Indeed, broken people often "choose" to spend their poverty rations on grog.


Quote:

you know .... when are YOU headed out there to preach to them the majesty of removing their personal autonomy/sovereignty and subordinating themselves to the State entirely in order to receive their handout of a 'universal wage' that will only serve to create inflation until any benefit is gone anyway?

Funny seeing you arguing for broken people to have the 'right' to spend their poverty rations the way they want - in the name of 'autonomy'. 

Honest work doen't create inflation. In fact eradication of the poverty industry will reduce inflation, if basic services and infrastructure  are supplied by the state,  eg subsidization by the currency-issuing government of healthy food (of which there is ample supply in Oz) in remote areas will reduce expensive illness.     Ditto for poverty-related crime.   


Quote:

How many do you reckon you'll get on board with your theories?

I'm not sure; hopefully before the liberal democracies collapse into socio-economic dysfunction and hyper-partisanship,  as poverty, homelessness  and increasing inequality  continue to soar, with neither side having a solution. 

They could always spread around a bit more and stop clinging to mummy's skirts... most people's extended families here live Australia-wide and remain part of a community.... and they buy their own homes in the main .... or pay rent on them where they can find work etc...

What's the difference?

**My nephew is half-Bleck - he has a home, family, job, car, beautiful wife and kids, and a normal life..... sorry he went off the rails of your entrenched ideology, you New Conservative you.  Time to let go of the old ways, you know - actually bring them forward ...

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 6^th, 2024 at 10:35am:

They could always spread around a bit more and stop clinging to mummy's skirts... most people's extended families here live Australia-wide and remain part of a community.... and they buy their own homes in the main .... or pay rent on them where they can find work etc... What's the difference?

The difference is that welfare dependency is a one way street to social and econmomic disaster. - and mnaintaining the gap.


Quote:

**My nephew is half-Bleck -...

You don't understand macro-economic forces which affect different people in different ways; high unemployment is always associated with increasing socio economic dysfunction and crime.   


Quote:

Time to let go of the old ways, you know - actually bring them forward ...

Agreed.

No it's not.

It would be unusual that there would be a need for 14 people to live together, given the indigenous people have priority housing. It was not even a month ago when I watched a news article about the Northern Territory government building new houses in the aboriginal community to alleviate homelessness. They would not be homeless if they did not wreck the homes in the first place.

The social dysfunction is the fault of indigenous people wanting to hang on to a culture of tribalism and hunter-gatherers, whilst living off the taxpayers.

Since the end of apartheid, there was a short-term upswing in the prosperity of South Africa, with new investment and trade from other countries taking place. Since then, we have seen government disorder and corruption, and black outs being commonplace through the South African region. Most South African blacks did not have ancestors any further back than great-grandparents in South Africa. Many black South Africans are descendants of Africans who came to South Africa after the start of the 20th century.

The Mexican government will have to settle for low-wages as a way to get foreign investors to commit to the Mexican industries. I have no considerable idea how Indians will get out of their self-inflicted poverty. But, their first strategy would be to not have 5 children per family. Boasting about being the most populated country in the world is not something to be proud. Especially when more people want to leave there for a better life.

Indigenous people genuinely go out and get jobs. But their unemployment rate is around 12%. It is not difficult to achieve that sort of unemployment rate when the government automatically deem you unemployable and put you on $45,000 a year. Would you work anywhere if you were being paid that amount each year and you only had to pay a small amount in rent?


Quote:

Indeed, broken people often "choose" to spend their poverty rations on grog.

I can relate to PTSD conditions being treated with alcohol consumption. But, if you are in the dumps with being "broken", you would probably treat the cause of the problem before you treat yourself to a bottle of spirits.

By the way, healthy food is already quite cheap for most people. The problem is that most people eat junk food for the taste.

The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me.

The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me.

mothra wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 3:20am:

The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me. The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me.

As of 30 June 2021, there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population.


Many sources report over-representation of Indigenous offenders at all stages of the criminal justice system. As of September 2019, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners represented 28% of the total adult prisoner population, while accounting for 3.3% of the general population.

Despite making up just 3.8 percent of the general population, Indigenous people account for nearly a third (31.8 percent) of the prisoners in Australia.

3 Apr 2024 — Latest figures indicate that the Aboriginal imprisonment rate in NSW is nearly 10 times the non-Aboriginal imprisonment rate

Boris wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 7:32am:

mothra wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 3:20am: The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me. The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me. As of 30 June 2021, there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. Many sources report over-representation of Indigenous offenders at all stages of the criminal justice system. As of September 2019, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners represented 28% of the total adult prisoner population, while accounting for 3.3% of the general population. Despite making up just 3.8 percent of the general population, Indigenous people account for nearly a third (31.8 percent) of the prisoners in Australia. 3 Apr 2024 — Latest figures indicate that the Aboriginal imprisonment rate in NSW is nearly 10 times the non-Aboriginal imprisonment rate

We understand you get a little chub every time you quote the stats, but if you don't want to support any policy or legislation that can help improve the stats, then what's the point?

Most men are problem solvers by nature.  Most women just want to be heard.  It's been tested time and time again, and until I was in my 40's I never understood this.

Now when my wife or daughters come to me with a problem, I ask them, do you want help solving this, or do you just want to talk about it?

It's made a world of difference.

So, do you want to solve this problem, or do you want to just gossip about it, you big girl?

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 8:14am:

Boris wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 7:32am: mothra wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 3:20am: The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me. The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me. As of 30 June 2021, there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. Many sources report over-representation of Indigenous offenders at all stages of the criminal justice system. As of September 2019, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners represented 28% of the total adult prisoner population, while accounting for 3.3% of the general population. Despite making up just 3.8 percent of the general population, Indigenous people account for nearly a third (31.8 percent) of the prisoners in Australia. 3 Apr 2024 — Latest figures indicate that the Aboriginal imprisonment rate in NSW is nearly 10 times the non-Aboriginal imprisonment rate We understand you get a little chub every time you quote the stats, but if you don't want to support any policy or legislation that can help improve the stats, then what's the point? Most men are problem solvers by nature.  Most women just want to be heard.  It's been tested time and time again, and until I was in my 40's I never understood this. Now when my wife or daughters come to me with a problem, I ask them, do you want help solving this, or do you just want to talk about it? It's made a world of difference. So, do you want to solve this problem, or do you want to just gossip about it, you big girl?

The problem cannot be solved.

Just as Commo wankers want to destroy the world - people like you - the reality is they will never change.

Aborigines will never change and will always be violent and dangerous and lawless - just like Communists like you will always be mindless idiots who worship Stalin and Mao.

Boris wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 8:25am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 8:14am: Boris wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 7:32am: mothra wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 3:20am: The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me. The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me. As of 30 June 2021, there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. Many sources report over-representation of Indigenous offenders at all stages of the criminal justice system. As of September 2019, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners represented 28% of the total adult prisoner population, while accounting for 3.3% of the general population. Despite making up just 3.8 percent of the general population, Indigenous people account for nearly a third (31.8 percent) of the prisoners in Australia. 3 Apr 2024 — Latest figures indicate that the Aboriginal imprisonment rate in NSW is nearly 10 times the non-Aboriginal imprisonment rate We understand you get a little chub every time you quote the stats, but if you don't want to support any policy or legislation that can help improve the stats, then what's the point? Most men are problem solvers by nature.  Most women just want to be heard.  It's been tested time and time again, and until I was in my 40's I never understood this. Now when my wife or daughters come to me with a problem, I ask them, do you want help solving this, or do you just want to talk about it? It's made a world of difference. So, do you want to solve this problem, or do you want to just gossip about it, you big girl? The problem cannot be solved. Just as Commo wankers want to destroy the world - people like you - the reality is they will never change. Aborigines will never change and will always be violent and dangerous and lawless - just like Communists like you will always be mindless idiots who worship Stalin and Mao.

Settle...

So you don't want to solve the problem, you don't think the problem can be solved, you just want to attack Indigenous Australians at every chance?

At least we cleared the air, thanks.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 8:14am:

Boris wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 7:32am: mothra wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 3:20am: The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me. The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me. As of 30 June 2021, there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. Many sources report over-representation of Indigenous offenders at all stages of the criminal justice system. As of September 2019, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners represented 28% of the total adult prisoner population, while accounting for 3.3% of the general population. Despite making up just 3.8 percent of the general population, Indigenous people account for nearly a third (31.8 percent) of the prisoners in Australia. 3 Apr 2024 — Latest figures indicate that the Aboriginal imprisonment rate in NSW is nearly 10 times the non-Aboriginal imprisonment rate We understand you get a little chub every time you quote the stats, but if you don't want to support any policy or legislation that can help improve the stats, then what's the point? Most men are problem solvers by nature.  Most women just want to be heard.  It's been tested time and time again, and until I was in my 40's I never understood this. Now when my wife or daughters come to me with a problem, I ask them, do you want help solving this, or do you just want to talk about it? It's made a world of difference. So, do you want to solve this problem, or do you want to just gossip about it, you big girl?

It is a problem for Aborigines to solve.

Aboriginal domestic violence is highestvwhere traditional Aboriginal nor mms and values are maintained.

Middle class, westernized, urban Aborigines who do not live by traditional  Aboriginal values behave, by definition, like everyone else. That is what acculturation means.


It is the same with every other demographic- the more they cling to traditional values from their source culture,  the more they offend against the norms of modern, western, Australian norms, be they from rural Afganistan, Araby, India or Africa.
A mere 50 years ago European peasants from th  South held to traditional male 'rights' to belt the women. In Italy delitto d’onore, honour kiling, was still on the statute books until 1981, treating offenders extremely leniently.

Aborigines must abandon the crappiest, cruelest, most backward and primitive aspects of their traditions. Urban Aborigines have largely done so already, it's the remote ones, the ones least touched by th ed civilising effects of colonisation, that behave abominable towards each other.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 8:31am:

Boris wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 8:25am: ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 8:14am: Boris wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 7:32am: mothra wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 3:20am: The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me. The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me. As of 30 June 2021, there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. Many sources report over-representation of Indigenous offenders at all stages of the criminal justice system. As of September 2019, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners represented 28% of the total adult prisoner population, while accounting for 3.3% of the general population. Despite making up just 3.8 percent of the general population, Indigenous people account for nearly a third (31.8 percent) of the prisoners in Australia. 3 Apr 2024 — Latest figures indicate that the Aboriginal imprisonment rate in NSW is nearly 10 times the non-Aboriginal imprisonment rate We understand you get a little chub every time you quote the stats, but if you don't want to support any policy or legislation that can help improve the stats, then what's the point? Most men are problem solvers by nature.  Most women just want to be heard.  It's been tested time and time again, and until I was in my 40's I never understood this. Now when my wife or daughters come to me with a problem, I ask them, do you want help solving this, or do you just want to talk about it? It's made a world of difference. So, do you want to solve this problem, or do you want to just gossip about it, you big girl? The problem cannot be solved. Just as Commo wankers want to destroy the world - people like you - the reality is they will never change. Aborigines will never change and will always be violent and dangerous and lawless - just like Communists like you will always be mindless idiots who worship Stalin and Mao. Settle... So you don't want to solve the problem, you don't think the problem can be solved, you just want to attack Indigenous Australians at every chance? At least we cleared the air, thanks.

It is what it is - a problem that can never be solved - the same as Communists like you

Frank wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 8:46am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 8:14am: Boris wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 7:32am: mothra wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 3:20am: The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me. The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me. As of 30 June 2021, there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. Many sources report over-representation of Indigenous offenders at all stages of the criminal justice system. As of September 2019, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners represented 28% of the total adult prisoner population, while accounting for 3.3% of the general population. Despite making up just 3.8 percent of the general population, Indigenous people account for nearly a third (31.8 percent) of the prisoners in Australia. 3 Apr 2024 — Latest figures indicate that the Aboriginal imprisonment rate in NSW is nearly 10 times the non-Aboriginal imprisonment rate We understand you get a little chub every time you quote the stats, but if you don't want to support any policy or legislation that can help improve the stats, then what's the point? Most men are problem solvers by nature.  Most women just want to be heard.  It's been tested time and time again, and until I was in my 40's I never understood this. Now when my wife or daughters come to me with a problem, I ask them, do you want help solving this, or do you just want to talk about it? It's made a world of difference. So, do you want to solve this problem, or do you want to just gossip about it, you big girl? It is a problem for Aborigines to solve. Aboriginal domestic violence is highestvwhere traditional Aboriginal nor mms and values are maintained. Middle class, westernized, urban Aborigines who do not live by traditional  Aboriginal values behave, by definition, like everyone else. That is what acculturation means. It is the same with every other demographic- the more they cling to traditional values from their source culture,  the more they offend against the norms of modern, western, Australian norms, be they from rural Afganistan, Araby, India or Africa. A mere 50 years ago European peasants from th  South held to traditional male 'rights' to belt the women. In Italy delitto d’onore, honour kiling, was still on the statute books until 1981, treating offenders extremely leniently. Aborigines must abandon the crappiest, cruelest, most backward and primitive aspects of their traditions. Urban Aborigines have largely done so already, it's the remote ones, the ones least touched by th ed civilising effects of colonisation, that behave abominable towards each other.

They have to stop being Aborigines.

Frank wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 8:46am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 8:14am: Boris wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 7:32am: mothra wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 3:20am: The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me. The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me. As of 30 June 2021, there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. Many sources report over-representation of Indigenous offenders at all stages of the criminal justice system. As of September 2019, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners represented 28% of the total adult prisoner population, while accounting for 3.3% of the general population. Despite making up just 3.8 percent of the general population, Indigenous people account for nearly a third (31.8 percent) of the prisoners in Australia. 3 Apr 2024 — Latest figures indicate that the Aboriginal imprisonment rate in NSW is nearly 10 times the non-Aboriginal imprisonment rate We understand you get a little chub every time you quote the stats, but if you don't want to support any policy or legislation that can help improve the stats, then what's the point? Most men are problem solvers by nature.  Most women just want to be heard.  It's been tested time and time again, and until I was in my 40's I never understood this. Now when my wife or daughters come to me with a problem, I ask them, do you want help solving this, or do you just want to talk about it? It's made a world of difference. So, do you want to solve this problem, or do you want to just gossip about it, you big girl? It is a problem for Aborigines to solve.

So what can we do to help?

How can we assist them in solving the problem?

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 8:58am:

Frank wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 8:46am: ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 8:14am: Boris wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 7:32am: mothra wrote on Jun 7th, 2024 at 3:20am: The levels of sheer ignorance on this forum continue to unsettle me. The prejudice arising from it continues to disgust me. As of 30 June 2021, there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. Many sources report over-representation of Indigenous offenders at all stages of the criminal justice system. As of September 2019, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners represented 28% of the total adult prisoner population, while accounting for 3.3% of the general population. Despite making up just 3.8 percent of the general population, Indigenous people account for nearly a third (31.8 percent) of the prisoners in Australia. 3 Apr 2024 — Latest figures indicate that the Aboriginal imprisonment rate in NSW is nearly 10 times the non-Aboriginal imprisonment rate We understand you get a little chub every time you quote the stats, but if you don't want to support any policy or legislation that can help improve the stats, then what's the point? Most men are problem solvers by nature.  Most women just want to be heard.  It's been tested time and time again, and until I was in my 40's I never understood this. Now when my wife or daughters come to me with a problem, I ask them, do you want help solving this, or do you just want to talk about it? It's made a world of difference. So, do you want to solve this problem, or do you want to just gossip about it, you big girl? It is a problem for Aborigines to solve. Aboriginal domestic violence is highestvwhere traditional Aboriginal nor mms and values are maintained. Middle class, westernized, urban Aborigines who do not live by traditional  Aboriginal values behave, by definition, like everyone else. That is what acculturation means. It is the same with every other demographic- the more they cling to traditional values from their source culture,  the more they offend against the norms of modern, western, Australian norms, be they from rural Afganistan, Araby, India or Africa. A mere 50 years ago European peasants from th  South held to traditional male 'rights' to belt the women. In Italy delitto d’onore, honour kiling, was still on the statute books until 1981, treating offenders extremely leniently. Aborigines must abandon the crappiest, cruelest, most backward and primitive aspects of their traditions. Urban Aborigines have largely done so already, it's the remote ones, the ones least touched by th ed civilising effects of colonisation, that behave abominable towards each other. So what can we do to help? How can we assist them in solving the problem?

What have 'we' done for the acculturated, assimilated Aborigines? We let them assimilate. We gave them the opportunity to shape their own lives. There is not much else anyone can do.

'We' have done everything we can. Now they have to do what they need to do. Self-directing, personal autonomy are important.  Staying traditional Aborigines is not an option. Nor can 'We' revert to some Aboriginality, to try to meet them half way. There is no half way. Just as you can't live as if it was 1787 in Cork or Inverness or Calcutta, you can't stay a tribal, traditional Aborigine. 

Frank wrote on Jun 7^th, 2024 at 9:45am:

What have 'we' done for the acculturated, assimilated Aborigines? We let them assimilate. We gave them the opportunity to shape their own lives. There is not much else anyone can do. 'We' have done everything we can. Now they have to do what they need to do. Self-directing, personal autonomy are important.  Staying traditional Aborigines is not an option. Nor can 'We' revert to some Aboriginality, to try to meet them half way. There is no half way. Just as you can't live as if it was 1787 in Cork or Inverness or Calcutta, you can't stay a tribal, traditional Aborigine.

Ok, so why the constant regurgitation of the stats and pointing to all the problems, what are those collective posters trying to achieve if there is nothing more that "we" can do?