https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-19/defence-accuses-chinese-warship-of-dangerous-act-laser-shone/100845702

Prime Minister Scott Morrison accuses Chinese warship of 'reckless and irresponsible' act after laser was shone at RAAF aircraft

By defence correspondent Andrew Greene
Posted 22h ago22 hours ago, updated 2h ago

Prime Minister Scott Morrison says a Chinese military vessel shining a laser at an Australian maritime aircraft was an "act of intimidation" that put Defence Force lives at risk.

Defence says the incident occurred at 12:35am on Thursday, when an RAAF P-8A Poseidon detected a military-grade laser illuminating the aircraft while in flight just north of Australia.

Up to 10 personnel were on board the aircraft when the incident occurred.

The Department of Defence says the Chinese vessel, in company with another People's Liberation Army-Navy (PLA-N) ship, was sailing east through the Arafura Sea at the time.

Mr Morrison said the laser could have disabled the aircraft, putting the entire crew at risk.

"I can see it no other way than an act of intimidation, one that was unprovoked, unwarranted and Australia will never accept such acts of intimidation," he said.

"It was a reckless and irresponsible act and it should not occur.

"We are raising those issues directly through the diplomatic and defence channels."

That plane is going to need a major health checkup after being blasted with that much radiation given all of its electronics and if any of the pilots or crew looked at the laser they are going to need new retinas.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

Prime Minister Scott Morrison says a Chinese military vessel shining a laser at an Australian maritime aircraft was an "act of intimidation" that put Defence Force lives at risk. Defence says the incident occurred at 12:35am on Thursday, when an RAAF P-8A Poseidon detected a military-grade laser illuminating the aircraft while in flight just north of Australia. Up to 10 personnel were on board the aircraft when the incident occurred. The Department of Defence says the Chinese vessel, in company with another People's Liberation Army-Navy (PLA-N) ship, was sailing east through the Arafura Sea at the time. Mr Morrison said the laser could have disabled the aircraft, putting the entire crew at risk. "I can see it no other way than an act of intimidation, one that was unprovoked, unwarranted and Australia will never accept such acts of intimidation," he said. "It was a reckless and irresponsible act and it should not occur. "We are raising those issues directly through the diplomatic and defence channels."

Frogshit.  Just Morrison beating up  an incident which likely occurs on a routine basis.

How many times have you heard of lasers being pointed at commercial aircraft inside Australia.

Did the PM get all uppity about that?

Thought you had left?

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:34pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:14pm: Prime Minister Scott Morrison says a Chinese military vessel shining a laser at an Australian maritime aircraft was an "act of intimidation" that put Defence Force lives at risk. Defence says the incident occurred at 12:35am on Thursday, when an RAAF P-8A Poseidon detected a military-grade laser illuminating the aircraft while in flight just north of Australia. Up to 10 personnel were on board the aircraft when the incident occurred. The Department of Defence says the Chinese vessel, in company with another People's Liberation Army-Navy (PLA-N) ship, was sailing east through the Arafura Sea at the time. Mr Morrison said the laser could have disabled the aircraft, putting the entire crew at risk. "I can see it no other way than an act of intimidation, one that was unprovoked, unwarranted and Australia will never accept such acts of intimidation," he said. "It was a reckless and irresponsible act and it should not occur. "We are raising those issues directly through the diplomatic and defence channels." Frogshit.  Just Morrison beating up  an incident which likely occurs on a routine basis. How many times have you heard of lasers being pointed at commercial aircraft inside Australia. Did the PM get all uppity about that? Thought you had left?

Legislation wrt laser beams.

Tell me what you know about that?

I did leave. I was gone for 5 days.

This afternoon I wrote over at PA that I'm only here to suss the situation. If it's still in BS mode then I'm gone. I don't need to stick around perverse and disrespectful unhinged individuals who get their rocks off by using multi ids to manipulate me and others day in day out.

These lasers are industrial strength military grade, they could have blown that plane up with them if they wanted to.

Johnnie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:41pm:

These lasers are industrial strength military grade, they could have blown that plane up with them if they wanted to.

Commercial grade beams are dangerous.

Military strength beams are potentiality lethal.

That's why the Federal Govt is about to introduce/has just introduced legislation wrt this.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:40pm:

I did leave. I was gone for 5 days.

another court appearance?

John Smith wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:46pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:40pm: I did leave. I was gone for 5 days. another court appearance?

Freediver could you delete this multi troll's abusive non post please?

In fact I'll start listing all his posts as they arise. Thanks Freediver.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:46pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:40pm: I did leave. I was gone for 5 days. another court appearance? Freediver could you delete this multi troll's abusive non post please? In fact I'll start listing all his posts as they arise. Thanks Freediver.

abusive? For asking a simple question? Where's the abuse?  ;D ;D ;D

Unless off course I happened to guess correctly, in which case your reaction is somewhat understandable, although you'd still be wrong to label it abuse.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:45pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:41pm: These lasers are industrial strength military grade, they could have blown that plane up with them if they wanted to. Commercial grade beams are dangerous. Military strength beams are potentiality lethal. That's why the Federal Govt is about to introduce/has just introduced legislation wrt this.

And that's why I've asked Aussie if he knows anything about said legislation.

John Smith wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:53pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:50pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:46pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:40pm: I did leave. I was gone for 5 days. another court appearance? Freediver could you delete this multi troll's abusive non post please? In fact I'll start listing all his posts as they arise. Thanks Freediver. abusive? For asking a simple question? Where's the abuse?  ;D ;D ;D Unless off course I happened to guess correctly, in which case your reaction is somewhat understandable, although you'd still be wrong to label it abuse.

Freediver could you delete this multi troll's abusive non post please?

In fact I'll start listing all his posts as they arise. Thanks Freediver.

Gutless Australia says "Stop! or we'll say stop again".

Australia should be sending its military to attack China NOW!

Gutless Australia relies on the USA like a dog and follows USA instruction. Good doggy - all bark, no bite.

Jasin wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:54pm:

Gutless Australia says "Stop! or we'll say stop again". Australia should be sending its military to attack China NOW! Gutless Australia relies on the USA like a dog and follows USA instruction. Good doggy - all bark, no bite.

Jasin

You might want to have another think about that.

Read this.

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645338617

There are 2 countries which we need to be careful of right now. Not just 1.

We have no choice but to align ourselves with NATO and the US.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:53pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:50pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:46pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:40pm: I did leave. I was gone for 5 days. another court appearance? Freediver could you delete this multi troll's abusive non post please? In fact I'll start listing all his posts as they arise. Thanks Freediver. abusive? For asking a simple question? Where's the abuse?  ;D ;D ;D Unless off course I happened to guess correctly, in which case your reaction is somewhat understandable, although you'd still be wrong to label it abuse. Freediver could you delete this multi troll's abusive non post please? In fact I'll start listing all his posts as they arise. Thanks Freediver.

so what were you in court for this time?

Jasin wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:54pm:

Gutless Australia says "Stop! or we'll say stop again". Australia should be sending its military to attack China NOW! Gutless Australia relies on the USA like a dog and follows USA instruction. Good doggy - all bark, no bite.

We should stop sending them our iron ore and and cripple them first and then go and blow them up.

Killing our lobsters was their 1st and biggest mistake so far and they need to be taught a lesson.

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:34pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:14pm: Prime Minister Scott Morrison says a Chinese military vessel shining a laser at an Australian maritime aircraft was an "act of intimidation" that put Defence Force lives at risk. Defence says the incident occurred at 12:35am on Thursday, when an RAAF P-8A Poseidon detected a military-grade laser illuminating the aircraft while in flight just north of Australia. Up to 10 personnel were on board the aircraft when the incident occurred. The Department of Defence says the Chinese vessel, in company with another People's Liberation Army-Navy (PLA-N) ship, was sailing east through the Arafura Sea at the time. Mr Morrison said the laser could have disabled the aircraft, putting the entire crew at risk. "I can see it no other way than an act of intimidation, one that was unprovoked, unwarranted and Australia will never accept such acts of intimidation," he said. "It was a reckless and irresponsible act and it should not occur. "We are raising those issues directly through the diplomatic and defence channels." Frogshit.  Just Morrison beating up  an incident which likely occurs on a routine basis. How many times have you heard of lasers being pointed at commercial aircraft inside Australia. Did the PM get all uppity about that? Thought you had left?

Thinking some more on this.

Fair dinkum.  Are our military aircraft so pissweak that they can be disabled by a military laser?  Really?  An expensive aircraft full of technology rendered useless by a bit of 'cheap' laser?  Rubbish.

Further, I do wonder if our aircraft was just innocently passing by and did not 'ping' the Chinese vessel for a bit of fun or.....*shock horror*......knowing that to do so would trigger a laser 'attack' so Morrison and Dutton could go all faux hysterical?

Humbug.

Jasin wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:54pm:

Gutless Australia says "Stop! or we'll say stop again". Australia should be sending its military to attack China NOW! Gutless Australia relies on the USA like a dog and follows USA instruction. Good doggy - all bark, no bite.

I can see your point but think your solution may be just a tad heavy handed.

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 6:33pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:34pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:14pm: Prime Minister Scott Morrison says a Chinese military vessel shining a laser at an Australian maritime aircraft was an "act of intimidation" that put Defence Force lives at risk. Defence says the incident occurred at 12:35am on Thursday, when an RAAF P-8A Poseidon detected a military-grade laser illuminating the aircraft while in flight just north of Australia. Up to 10 personnel were on board the aircraft when the incident occurred. The Department of Defence says the Chinese vessel, in company with another People's Liberation Army-Navy (PLA-N) ship, was sailing east through the Arafura Sea at the time. Mr Morrison said the laser could have disabled the aircraft, putting the entire crew at risk. "I can see it no other way than an act of intimidation, one that was unprovoked, unwarranted and Australia will never accept such acts of intimidation," he said. "It was a reckless and irresponsible act and it should not occur. "We are raising those issues directly through the diplomatic and defence channels." Frogshit.  Just Morrison beating up  an incident which likely occurs on a routine basis. How many times have you heard of lasers being pointed at commercial aircraft inside Australia. Did the PM get all uppity about that? Thought you had left? Thinking some more on this. Fair dinkum.  Are our military aircraft so pissweak that they can be disabled by a military laser?  Really?  An expensive aircraft full of technology rendered useless by a bit of 'cheap' laser?  Rubbish. Further, I do wonder if our aircraft was just innocently passing by and did not 'ping' the Chinese vessel for a bit of fun or.....*shock horror*......knowing that to do so would trigger a laser 'attack' so Morrison and Dutton could go all faux hysterical? Humbug.

I hear the plane had to go back to base in limp mode and at least one of the crew has eye problems. We are already in an unwanted trade war now they have us in their cross hairs.

If you were to walk in front of one of these lasers you would be plasma.

Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit.

Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile.

“That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away.

“So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.”

It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution.

In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html

Gordon wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 6:45pm:

Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html

Grandma/egg sucking.

And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described.

We will be fed bullshit. 

Look at the political context ferfuxsake.

Johnnie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 6:45pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:33pm: Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:34pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:14pm: Prime Minister Scott Morrison says a Chinese military vessel shining a laser at an Australian maritime aircraft was an "act of intimidation" that put Defence Force lives at risk. Defence says the incident occurred at 12:35am on Thursday, when an RAAF P-8A Poseidon detected a military-grade laser illuminating the aircraft while in flight just north of Australia. Up to 10 personnel were on board the aircraft when the incident occurred. The Department of Defence says the Chinese vessel, in company with another People's Liberation Army-Navy (PLA-N) ship, was sailing east through the Arafura Sea at the time. Mr Morrison said the laser could have disabled the aircraft, putting the entire crew at risk. "I can see it no other way than an act of intimidation, one that was unprovoked, unwarranted and Australia will never accept such acts of intimidation," he said. "It was a reckless and irresponsible act and it should not occur. "We are raising those issues directly through the diplomatic and defence channels." Frogshit.  Just Morrison beating up  an incident which likely occurs on a routine basis. How many times have you heard of lasers being pointed at commercial aircraft inside Australia. Did the PM get all uppity about that? Thought you had left? Thinking some more on this. Fair dinkum.  Are our military aircraft so pissweak that they can be disabled by a military laser?  Really?  An expensive aircraft full of technology rendered useless by a bit of 'cheap' laser?  Rubbish. Further, I do wonder if our aircraft was just innocently passing by and did not 'ping' the Chinese vessel for a bit of fun or.....*shock horror*......knowing that to do so would trigger a laser 'attack' so Morrison and Dutton could go all faux hysterical? Humbug. I hear the plane had to go back to base in limp mode and at least one of the crew has eye problems. We are already in an unwanted trade war now they have us in their cross hairs. If you were to walk in front of one of these lasers you would be plasma.

You probably 'hear' voices in your head as well.

So we're not keeping operational matters quiet anymore , ah hah

John Smith wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:54pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:53pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:50pm: John Smith wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:46pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:40pm: I did leave. I was gone for 5 days. another court appearance? Freediver could you delete this multi troll's abusive non post please? In fact I'll start listing all his posts as they arise. Thanks Freediver. abusive? For asking a simple question? Where's the abuse?  ;D ;D ;D Unless off course I happened to guess correctly, in which case your reaction is somewhat understandable, although you'd still be wrong to label it abuse. Freediver could you delete this multi troll's abusive non post please? In fact I'll start listing all his posts as they arise. Thanks Freediver. so what were you in court for this time?

Giving evidence against you. Why are you pretending not to know?

Labor majority government wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 8:56pm:

So we're not keeping operational matters quiet anymore , ah hah

I think it's a matter of we're trying to.

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 7:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:45pm: Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html Grandma/egg sucking. And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake.

Ok so let's look at the political backdrop here.

Why do you think this is BS?

You cannot be seriously asking me that, surely.

Why are the liberals picking a battle with a country that could probably wipe us out in a couple of days , is there a reason the diplomats can't handle it like they've done since Federation

Sounds a lot like when Tony said he was going to shirt front Putin and handed him a koala bear instead when it came down to it

The Jones poster couldn't wait to come back here...

How was Valkie Jones?

Why was a Chinese military ship in the Arufura Sea within Australia's exclusive economic zone?

The Australian aircraft was patrolling our own waters.

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 7:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:45pm: Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html Grandma/egg sucking. And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake.

They were in our waters not us in theirs.

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 12:33pm:

Why was a Chinese military ship in the Arufura Sea with Australia's exclusive economic zone?.

Because they know our ‘defences’ a joke

Gnads wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 1:12pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 7:01pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:45pm: Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html Grandma/egg sucking. And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake. They were in our waters not us in theirs.

'Our waters?'

How many ks off Australian soil?  Arafura Sea?

Ferfuxsake.

'Economic zone.'

Any ship of any nation is entitled to be there.

Aussie wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 1:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:12pm: Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 7:01pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:45pm: Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html Grandma/egg sucking. And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake. They were in our waters not us in theirs. 'Our waters?' How many ks off Australian soil?  Arafura Sea? Ferfuxsake. 'Economic zone.' Any ship of any nation is entitled to be there.

Australia is patrolling its borders and it's not for the bloody Chinese bullies to laser target Australian patrol planes over Australian zones.

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 2:32pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:18pm: Gnads wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:12pm: Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 7:01pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:45pm: Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html Grandma/egg sucking. And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake. They were in our waters not us in theirs. 'Our waters?' How many ks off Australian soil?  Arafura Sea? Ferfuxsake. 'Economic zone.' Any ship of any nation is entitled to be there. Australia is patrolling its borders and it's not for the bloody Chinese bullies to laser target Australian patrol planes over Australian zones.

We are not going to be told the whole story ever.  This is a beat up and it is perfectly conceivable that (if anything happened at all) our aircraft 'pinged' that ship (which was lawfully entitled to be where it was) deliberately to extract a reaction...a laser.....which Morrison can then whinge about for election purposes.

The 'fear' agenda.

Political bullshit like Hayseed's 'kids overboard' blatant far king lie.

Aussie wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 2:46pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 2:32pm: Aussie wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:18pm: Gnads wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:12pm: Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 7:01pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:45pm: Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html Grandma/egg sucking. And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake. They were in our waters not us in theirs. 'Our waters?' How many ks off Australian soil?  Arafura Sea? Ferfuxsake. 'Economic zone.' Any ship of any nation is entitled to be there. Australia is patrolling its borders and it's not for the bloody Chinese bullies to laser target Australian patrol planes over Australian zones. We are not going to be told the whole story ever.  This is a beat up and it is perfectly conceivable that (if anything happened at all) our aircraft 'pinged' that ship (which was lawfully entitled to be where it was) deliberately to extract a reaction...a laser.....which Morrison can then whinge about for election purposes. The 'fear' agenda. Political bullshit like Hayseed's 'kids overboard' blatant far king lie.

You only say this because the Libs are in government. You will side with anyone against a Liberal government in Canberra.

If this happened with Albo in The Lodge you would be either silent of siding with the Australian government.

Shame.

Aussie wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 2:46pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 2:32pm: Aussie wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:18pm: Gnads wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:12pm: Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 7:01pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:45pm: Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html Grandma/egg sucking. And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake. They were in our waters not us in theirs. 'Our waters?' How many ks off Australian soil?  Arafura Sea? Ferfuxsake. 'Economic zone.' Any ship of any nation is entitled to be there. Australia is patrolling its borders and it's not for the bloody Chinese bullies to laser target Australian patrol planes over Australian zones. 1. We are not going to be told the whole story ever.  2. This is a beat up and it is perfectly conceivable that (if anything happened at all) our aircraft 'pinged' that ship (which was lawfully entitled to be where it was) deliberately to extract a reaction...a laser.....which Morrison can then whinge about for election purposes. 3. The 'fear' agenda. 4. Political bullshit like Hayseed's 'kids overboard' blatant far king lie.

1. That's a given. I mean the subject matter alone would be enough of a clue.

2. - 4. You do realise that YOU are attempting to give US the whole story Aussie. And that's straight after you admitted that we're not going to be given the whole story.

I found that interesting.

Aussie wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 1:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:12pm: Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 7:01pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:45pm: Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html Grandma/egg sucking. And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake. They were in our waters not us in theirs. 'Our waters?' How many ks off Australian soil?  Arafura Sea? Ferfuxsake. 'Economic zone.' Any ship of any nation is entitled to be there.

http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/national-location-information/dimensions/oceans-and-seas

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 3:12pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:18pm: Gnads wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 1:12pm: Aussie wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 7:01pm: Gordon wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 6:45pm: Yes Aussie, the military totally fabricated the incident just for Morrison.  As usual you're as thick a pigschit. Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile. “That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away. “So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.” It is not the first time China has used lasers against Australian aircraft, with navy helicopter pilots reporting being hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea in 2019, forcing them to land nearby as a precaution. In 2018, the United States issued a formal complaint to the Chinese government over the use of military-grade lasers directed at aircraft which resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/act-of-intimidation-australia-demands-answers-from-beijing-over-laser-incident-20220220-p59y1l.html Grandma/egg sucking. And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake. They were in our waters not us in theirs. 'Our waters?' How many ks off Australian soil?  Arafura Sea? Ferfuxsake. 'Economic zone.' Any ship of any nation is entitled to be there. http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/national-location-information/dimensions/oceans-and-seas

Fuqqed if I know why you feel the need to post what we all already know......or should know.

The Chinese ship was lawfully entitled to be there.  Simple as that.

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 4:34pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 4:14pm: Prime Minister Scott Morrison says a Chinese military vessel shining a laser at an Australian maritime aircraft was an "act of intimidation" that put Defence Force lives at risk. Defence says the incident occurred at 12:35am on Thursday, when an RAAF P-8A Poseidon detected a military-grade laser illuminating the aircraft while in flight just north of Australia. Up to 10 personnel were on board the aircraft when the incident occurred. The Department of Defence says the Chinese vessel, in company with another People's Liberation Army-Navy (PLA-N) ship, was sailing east through the Arafura Sea at the time. Mr Morrison said the laser could have disabled the aircraft, putting the entire crew at risk. "I can see it no other way than an act of intimidation, one that was unprovoked, unwarranted and Australia will never accept such acts of intimidation," he said. "It was a reckless and irresponsible act and it should not occur. "We are raising those issues directly through the diplomatic and defence channels." Frogshit.  Just Morrison beating up  an incident which likely occurs on a routine basis. How many times have you heard of lasers being pointed at commercial aircraft inside Australia. Did the PM get all uppity about that? Thought you had left?

Hey Aussie,
So the laser incident was a Morrison beat up.
Is this one an Albo beat up?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-07/china-warns-australia-after-raaf-south-china-sea-interception/101133128

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

You cannot be seriously asking me that, surely.

Of course not - we don't expect you to come here to answer questions..... or to be treated with that kind of insult - of being asked a silly question...

You can go anywhere for that!

China's 'backyard swimming pool' - so they say but nobody else does....


http://sites.middlebury.edu/southchinasea/files/2013/01/Disputed-claims-in-the-south-china-sea-Agence-France-Presse.jpg

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 6:33pm:

Thinking some more on this. Fair dinkum.  Are our military aircraft so pissweak that they can be disabled by a military laser?  Really?  An expensive aircraft full of technology rendered useless by a bit of 'cheap' laser?  Rubbish..

Give it some more thought. These lasers on a Chinese warship would not be like the laser pointers you buy at a store around town. These lasers would even be more powerful than the restricted laser pointers available for purchase that can actually do some damage to people's skin with prolonged usage. I am talking about military-grade lasers that are there to serve a purpose.

Given the knowledge that you can disable some security cameras or dash cameras about town with certain hand held laser pointers strong enough. You could imagine that the Chinese warship was possibly trying to disable/disrupt the RAAF's capabilities of video recording the activities of the plane being flown. That is an ominous sign, if you think it through to a thorough possible conclusion.

Aussie wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 7:01pm:

And that aircraft might just as easily and conveniently 'pinged' the ship as I described. We will be fed bullshit.  Look at the political context ferfuxsake.

You may be right. There could be some selective reporting going on here where the RAAF did something to provoke a response from the Chinese warship. But that may or may not have happened. The Chinese military is usually hypersensitive about anything. Their government are usually hypersensitive to any form of criticism from anywhere. So, with their (the Chinese) history well-established that China is easily provoked by outsiders, we can continue to believe that the Chinese broke some international law/rule in regards to this incident. Otherwise, we await a response by witnesses showing evidence that state a provocation from the RAAF.

Labor majority government wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 8:56pm:

So we're not keeping operational matters quiet anymore , ah hah

That is a good observation. If the RAAF were genuinely threatened by this, we would not hear about the incident.

A separate summary of the meeting issued by China’s Foreign Ministry said there were four requirements for Australia to improve the relationship.

First, Mr Wang said, Australia must treat China as a “partner rather than a rival”.

Second, the two countries must seek “common ground while shelving differences”.

Third, Australia must reject “manipulation by a third party”, he said, without naming the US.

Fourth, both countries must build “public support featuring positiveness and pragmatism”.

Rory Medcalf, head of the National Security College at the Australian National University, said Beijing was “likely to be disappointed” by Canberra “unless China itself changes course”.


“Wang Yi’s first two points are not so unreasonable, provided that they are read as aspirations rather than demands, and that China itself were to respect them,” Professor Medcalf told The Australian.

“The third and fourth conditions are where it gets most unrealistic. Reject manipulation by a third party? That is based on the nonsensical view that Australian foreign policy is dictated by America, whereas it’s a matter of record that Canberra has independently shown the way for Washington and others in pushing back against Beijing.

“Build public support featuring positiveness and pragmatism? Beijing telling Canberra to tell Australians what to think? That’s wilful ignorance of the nature of democracy, a free media and the character of Australians.”

Australian National University Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies John Blaxland said the “issuing of demands” was unhelpful.

“That’s politically toxic in domestic Australian politics nowadays. Penny Wong knows that and is not going to agree to them, just like the PRC is not going to agree to a list of ‘demands’ Australia could justifiably put to Beijing,” he said.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/australia-the-root-cause-of-breakdown-with-china-wang-yi-told-penny-wong/news-story/47cb9bba00d85f4150b088d60cffcab8

I said Fried Rice - not boiled!!

---

Frank wrote on Jul 11^th, 2022 at 8:41am:

“The third and fourth conditions are where it gets most unrealistic. Reject manipulation by a third party? That is based on the nonsensical view that Australian foreign policy is dictated by America, whereas it’s a matter of record that Canberra has independently shown the way for Washington and others in pushing back against Beijing.

LOL...Like the paranoid banning of Huawei by Turnbull on CIA orders, whose stated goal is to maintain US global hegemony at all costs. 


Quote:

“Build public support featuring positiveness and pragmatism? Beijing telling Canberra to tell Australians what to think? That’s wilful ignorance of the nature of democracy, a free media and the character of Australians.”

Yes, but the constant beating of the "China threat" theory, aided and abetted by Oz "security" spooks,  is annoying to China, to say the least.


Quote:

Australian National University Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies John Blaxland said the “issuing of demands” was unhelpful. “That’s politically toxic in domestic Australian politics nowadays. Penny Wong knows that and is not going to agree to them, just like the PRC is not going to agree to a list of ‘demands’ Australia could justifiably put to Beijing,” he said. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/australia-the-root-cause-of-breakdown-with-china-wang-yi-told-penny-wong/news-story/47cb9bba00d85f4150b088d60cffcab8

So Blaxland is saying China's "demands" are not necessarily unreasonable, just that they are "politically toxic"  - not surprising, given the paranoia at the heart of relations in our broken world, ruled by 'security' spooks.   

Yes - that CCP threat..... the one that keeps encroaching on the national waters and lands of sovereign nations as if by some right - the only 'right' being conferred by the quite unwarranted fear that its massive military is really effective.

In reality the only thing that stops the West from reacting other than with words is that they are human - and do not wish to waste the lives of their sons and daughters on some silly adventurist policy by some upstart nation that cannot see that trading is a much better way to get things than trying to take it.

Every nation that has tried to control its access to resources has failed - for the simple reason that the very prosperity that may create encourages those supplying nations to expect more..... not only that - but when a nation seeks to secure control of those resources by force and stealth - eventually resistance will build to the point of open war.  Then one nation against the world means the one nation is doomed....

Better to trade on amicable terms and stop rattling the sabres and trying to impose on the sovereignty of small nations, and, by extension, on the spheres of interest of other and larger nations.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 12^th, 2022 at 1:07am:

Yes - that CCP threat..... the one that keeps encroaching on the national waters and lands of sovereign nations as if by some right

Well of course if international law as defined by the UN - not by you - was able to be defended, then the CCP would be subject to those same international laws as you.

But you refuse to submit to internal law. Case closed.


Quote:

- the only 'right' being conferred by the quite unwarranted fear that its massive military is really effective.

Pass..


Quote:

In reality the only thing that stops the West from reacting other than with words is that they are human - and do not wish to waste the lives of their sons and daughters on some silly adventurist policy*** by some upstart nation that cannot see that trading is a much better way to get things than trying to take it.

***but they would quick smart willingly "waste the lives" of Chinese people in a Taiwan war, if they knew they could get away unscathed).

Until recently, the ROC claimed THEY were the true government of China, of course the CCP, who won the civil war, disagreed. Now the ROC have decided to accept are no longer the government of China...but guess what, the CCP STILL believe they are the government of China, why should the CCP change its mind, just because the ROC has conceded?


Quote:

Every nation that has tried to control its access to resources has failed - for the simple reason that the very prosperity that may create encourages those supplying nations to expect more..... not only that - but when a nation seeks to secure control of those resources by force and stealth - eventually resistance will build to the point of open war.  Then one nation against the world means the one nation is doomed....

You mean like Iran in 1973, when the popularly-elected socialist PM Moseddagh tried to nationalize Iran's own oil production, to retain profits for the Iranian people?

The CIA had other ideas, of course...


Quote:

Better to trade on amicable terms and stop rattling the sabres and trying to impose on the sovereignty of small nations, and, by extension, on the spheres of interest of other and larger nations.

Indeed.

Chinese police hunting international corruption targets were allowed into Australia by the federal police and subsequently escorted a woman back to China for trial, in a major breach of Chinese-Australian police protocols.

The revelations, contained in Monday night's Four Corners program about a former Chinese spy, prompted a sharp rebuke from federal politicians who are concerned the act may have undermined Australia's national security.

The Chinese police were permitted to enter Australia in 2019 to talk with a 59-year-old Chinese-born Australian resident.

The woman was targeted under a Chinese Communist Party (CCP) anti-corruption drive called Operation Fox Hunt, which relies on police from the Ministry of Public Security (MPS) to make arrests.

While Fox Hunt is described by the CCP as targeting "economic criminals", human rights groups have said it is also used to silence dissidents and abduct people around the world.

'An extrajudicial extradition'
Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Paterson said the revelations were alarming.

"I'm very concerned to hear that the Australian Federal Police has apparently facilitated an operation of the Ministry of Public Security here in Australia, which has resulted in an Australian resident returning to China," Senator Paterson said.  "This could amount to what sounds like an extrajudicial extradition of an Australian resident."

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 12^th, 2022 at 1:07am:

Yes - that CCP threat..... the one that keeps encroaching on the national waters and lands of sovereign nations as if by some right - the only 'right' being conferred by the quite unwarranted fear that its massive military is really effective. In reality the only thing that stops the West from reacting other than with words is that they are human - and do not wish to waste the lives of their sons and daughters on some silly adventurist policy by some upstart nation that cannot see that trading is a much better way to get things than trying to take it. Every nation that has tried to control its access to resources has failed - for the simple reason that the very prosperity that may create encourages those supplying nations to expect more..... not only that - but when a nation seeks to secure control of those resources by force and stealth - eventually resistance will build to the point of open war.  Then one nation against the world means the one nation is doomed.... Better to trade on amicable terms and stop rattling the sabres and trying to impose on the sovereignty of small nations, and, by extension, on the spheres of interest of other and larger nations.

Oh who, who is going to save you?
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71nVDxHVDBL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_DpWeblab_.jpg

Chinese students studying overseas are being subjected to harassment and intimidation by Beijing authorities, leading to self-censorship and anxiety, a report by Amnesty International has found.

The human rights advocacy group said its findings, based on student testimonies, raised serious questions for university leaders and governments about how to protect Chinese students from what it termed “transnational repression”.

The students, including some interviewed separately by the Financial Times, said harassment included photographing them attending protests, tracking their activities on social media and pressuring family members in China to urge them to conform.

The report adds to calls from other advocacy groups including Human Rights Watch and Freedom House for more action to protect overseas students from pressure from authoritarian home governments.

Research regarding the Chinese government’s transnational repression in the university and academic context has been relatively limited. Among the few notable exceptions are a report by Human Rights Watch documenting the targeting of Chinese international students in Australia issued in 2021,  37 a report by Freedom House on transnational repression and universities in the USA published in February 2024,38 and media reporting on a growing number of individual incidents. Amnesty International’s report is the most wide-ranging documentation to date of the Chinese government’s transnational repression at foreign universities.

https://www.ft.com/content/f219a89f-dd11-41a3-bc96-998e2a9deae6


June 30, 2021
“They Don’t Understand the Fear We Have”
How China’s Long Reach of Repression Undermines Academic Freedom at Australia’s Universities
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/06/30/they-dont-understand-fear-we-have/how-chinas-long-reach-repression-undermines

The image of Chinese solar panels being used to build garden fences in Germany should deepen the winter chill in Canberra.

There is no future made in Australia, or much of anywhere else, so long as Beijing weaponises manufacturing; flooding the world with goods so cheap no other economy can compete.



In his speech launching the policy, Anthony Albanese listed the countries in the industry policy arms race. There is $500bn in the US Inflation Reduction Act, the EU’s European Economic Security Strategy, Japan’s Economic Security Promotion Act, the Republic of Korea’s National Security Strategy and Canada’s moves to tighten foreign direct investment in its critical mineral reserves.

“All these countries are investing in their industrial base, their manufacturing capability and their economic sovereignty,” the Prime Minister said.  “This is not old-fashioned protectionism or isolationism, it is the new competition”.

Timeless semantics aside, the silence on one player screams from this speech. The Prime Minister name-checked every major subsidy program except the one that rules them all: the one made in China.

Each of the countries he named is reacting to Beijing’s deliberate subversion of the world marketplace. And many have made pointed statements about the method behind their madness by taking aim at China. But here the price of trade peace seems to be Beijing never has to say it’s sorry and Canberra dutifully says nothing.

Not so US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, who accused China of using its “state-owned enterprises and domestic private firms to dominate foreign competitors”.

She took it one step further, saying, “This strategy has been coupled with aggressive efforts to acquire new technological know-how and intellectual property including through IP theft and other illicit means.”

In passing, lest anyone argue that China is somehow doing the planet a favour, let’s note that while it dominates green manufacturing it burns 54 per cent of the globe’s coal. It was issuing permits for coal-fired power plants at the rate of two a week in 2022 and accounts for 35 per cent of global carbon emissions. So if the intent of this green trade war is to cut emissions then the logic is missing in action.
Chris Uhlmann

Why is it such a bad thing if the Chinese government subsidises our electricity for us?

With its thumb pressed hard on the trade scales, Beijing is expunging competition in some sectors from the international landscape. Start spreading the news, if you can’t make it there you can’t make it anywhere.
This second “China shock” is shaking the world. The first came after China entered the World Trade Organisation. Then, in parts of the US that were directly competing in manufacturing, a million jobs were lost. Another 1.5 million vanished from the communities where industry was shuttered.

While Americans benefited from lower prices overall there was desolation in some regions, mostly the midwest and southeast, and the effects were persistent. Thriving communities withered into poverty. There is a reason for the searing anger at Washington in parts of the US and it is bloodlessly rational. But that is another story.

Analysis of the second China shock led by Brad Setser from the US Council on Foreign Relations calculates Beijing’s manufacturing surplus now stands at about 2 per cent of world GDP, roughly $2.5 trillion. That is bigger than Australia’s economy and “far exceeds the peak surpluses run by export powerhouses like Japan and Germany”.

Highlighting China’s massive subsidy-driven surplus in manufactured exports does not imply that in a free-trade world every country including China would have a balance in its manufactured exports and imports. But any comparative advantage China may have in manufacturing is dwarfed by the Chinese Communist Party subsidies designed to crush international competition.

This presents a wicked dilemma for any government. If you want the cheapest, fastest route to decarbonising your economy then let Chinese solar panels and EVs flood your market. This also would help cut inflation even as it lays waste to domestic industries and increases carbon emissions in China.

If, however, you want a piece of the burgeoning green manufacturing market and would like to stay in office, then block Chinese goods with prohibitive tariffs and try to build a local industry behind the flood walls. This will create some jobs but it will deliver more expensive and probably inferior products. That will drive inflation up and slow down the reduction in domestic emissions.

Victorian  & no doubt other states householders with solar putting energy back into the grid are now  being charged to do so.

Thus turning the residential rooftop solar energy policy introduced and pushed by govts about 15 years ago into a white elephant on their homes.

So instead of getting a return on your investment you are going to be charged to have it. >:(

That is unless you go off grid and get expensive battery backup for night use........

as long as the battery doesn't explode and burn your house down & gas you with toxic fumes.

That also costing $thousands more per household to put into the pockets of energy companies & companies pushing the renewable products.

It's an absolute scandal. As bad as water authorities charging farmers for water that falls from the sky that they collect in dams on their properties that they paid to have installed.


Quote:

Power companies will soon be able to charge Australians with rooftop solar panels for exporting electricity to the grid, under new rules introduced by the Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC).

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-12/power-companies-to-charge-solar-owners-for-exporting-to-grid/100368588

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2024 at 8:51am:

Why is it such a bad thing if the Chinese government subsidises our electricity for us?

Very perspicacious of you.

So much so - I'm guessing you are being sarcastic....

Frank wrote on May 18^th, 2024 at 9:11am:

With its thumb pressed hard on the trade scales, Beijing is expunging competition in some sectors from the international landscape. Start spreading the news, if you can’t make it there you can’t make it anywhere. This second “China shock” is shaking the world. The first came after China entered the World Trade Organisation. Then, in parts of the US that were directly competing in manufacturing, a million jobs were lost. Another 1.5 million vanished from the communities where industry was shuttered. While Americans benefited from lower prices overall there was desolation in some regions, mostly the midwest and southeast, and the effects were persistent. Thriving communities withered into poverty. There is a reason for the searing anger at Washington in parts of the US and it is bloodlessly rational. But that is another story. Analysis of the second China shock led by Brad Setser from the US Council on Foreign Relations calculates Beijing’s manufacturing surplus now stands at about 2 per cent of world GDP, roughly $2.5 trillion. That is bigger than Australia’s economy and “far exceeds the peak surpluses run by export powerhouses like Japan and Germany”. Highlighting China’s massive subsidy-driven surplus in manufactured exports does not imply that in a free-trade world every country including China would have a balance in its manufactured exports and imports. But any comparative advantage China may have in manufacturing is dwarfed by the Chinese Communist Party subsidies designed to crush international competition. This presents a wicked dilemma for any government. If you want the cheapest, fastest route to decarbonising your economy then let Chinese solar panels and EVs flood your market. This also would help cut inflation even as it lays waste to domestic industries and increases carbon emissions in China. If, however, you want a piece of the burgeoning green manufacturing market and would like to stay in office, then block Chinese goods with prohibitive tariffs and try to build a local industry behind the flood walls. This will create some jobs but it will deliver more expensive and probably inferior products. That will drive inflation up and slow down the reduction in domestic emissions.

"This presents a wicked dilemma for any government".

Indeed - the WTO neoliberal, free trade system won't work in a climate challenged world.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18^th, 2024 at 2:43pm:

freediver wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 8:51am: Why is it such a bad thing if the Chinese government subsidises our electricity for us? Very perspicacious of you. So much so - I'm guessing you are being sarcastic....

No. I actually think we should take advantage of it. Let the Chinese peasants work for 50c a day making solar panels and EVs for us. It won't last forever. Unless the CCP does another great leap forward.

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2024 at 3:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 2:43pm: freediver wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 8:51am: Why is it such a bad thing if the Chinese government subsidises our electricity for us? Very perspicacious of you. So much so - I'm guessing you are being sarcastic.... No. I actually think we should take advantage of it. Let the Chinese peasants work for 50c a day making solar panels and EVs for us. It won't last forever. Unless the CCP does another great leap forward.

The small question of employment for our own people remains - see Frank's posts #54 and #56. 

Actually the productive capacity of China is now so huge, the government can subsidize consumption by low income groups, creating the world's largest virtual middle class of over a billion people in China. The government  just haven't woken up yet how to use that vast productive capacity for China's benefit, now that the West is complaining about competition from Chinese exports.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18^th, 2024 at 4:28pm:

Actually the productive capacity of China is now so huge, the government can subsidize consumption by low income groups,

Are you hoping they will get as fat as the Americans? This is just the sort of thinking that will drag them back to the Mao era. You can already see it happening.

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2024 at 8:42pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 4:28pm: Actually the productive capacity of China is now so huge, the government can subsidize consumption by low income groups, Are you hoping they will get as fat as the Americans? This is just the sort of thinking that will drag them back to the Mao era. You can already see it happening.

Good point.  By consumption   I mean healthy consumption from the point of view of both the public and private sectors, including provision of services and infrastructure which improves peoples' lives.

eg subsidized rents: China can build - has built -  as many good housing units as required to house everyone, including low income groups,  but the private sector has stuffed up because people can't afford to buy the houses built in the private-sector 'housing as investment' scheme for private wealth creation by rent-seekers - hence Evergrande's collapse. 

 

thegreatdivide wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 12:18pm:

freediver wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 8:42pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 4:28pm: Actually the productive capacity of China is now so huge, the government can subsidize consumption by low income groups, Are you hoping they will get as fat as the Americans? This is just the sort of thinking that will drag them back to the Mao era. You can already see it happening. Good point.  By consumption   I mean healthy consumption from the point of view of both the public and private sectors, including provision of services and infrastructure which improves peoples' lives. eg subsidized rents: China can build - has built -  as many good housing units as required to house everyone, including low income groups,  but the private sector has stuffed up because people can't afford to buy the houses built in the private-sector 'housing as investment' scheme for private wealth creation by rent-seekers - hence Evergrande's collapse.

Ah. Subsidise healthy consumption. Is there any aspect of people's lives the CCP doesn't want to control?

From what I heard the CCP built way too many, though not necessarily of "good" quality. They have dozens of ghost cities. Brand new cities with no-one in them. The CCP is trying to do to the housing industry what they did to the farming industry during the Great Chinese Famine. It is mind boggling how the CCP is allowed to repeat the same moronic mistakes over and over again.

But just keep parroting their propaganda for them. Just ignore those empty cities, ignore the tens of millions of dead people, but if a private company collapses and investors lose money, it proves the failure of capitalism.

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 19th, 2024 at 12:18pm: freediver wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 8:42pm: thegreatdivide wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 4:28pm: Actually the productive capacity of China is now so huge, the government can subsidize consumption by low income groups, Are you hoping they will get as fat as the Americans? This is just the sort of thinking that will drag them back to the Mao era. You can already see it happening. Good point.  By consumption   I mean healthy consumption from the point of view of both the public and private sectors, including provision of services and infrastructure which improves peoples' lives. eg subsidized rents: China can build - has built -  as many good housing units as required to house everyone, including low income groups,  but the private sector has stuffed up because people can't afford to buy the houses built in the private-sector 'housing as investment' scheme for private wealth creation by rent-seekers - hence Evergrande's collapse.   Ah. Subsidise healthy consumption. Is there any aspect of people's lives the CCP doesn't want to control?

 

Haha- see how the ideologically blind FD turns quality consumption - to eliminate poverty - to "control" by the CCP; it's actually my presciption for sustainable prosperity, though the CCP is taking small steps in this direction.


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From what I heard the CCP built way too many, though not necessarily of "good" quality. They have dozens of ghost cities. Brand new cities with no-one in them. The CCP is trying to do to the housing industry what they did to the farming industry during the Great Chinese Famine. It is mind boggling how the CCP is allowed to repeat the same moronic mistakes over and over again.

What you heard is wrong. The private sector built more houses than could be bought by the public, in a 'housing for investment' frenzy. 

Fortunately, some local governments are now buying these unsold houses, to let for affordable rents.


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But just keep parroting their propaganda for them. Just ignore those empty cities, ignore the tens of millions of dead people, but if a private company collapses and investors lose money, it proves the failure of capitalism.

Corrected above ; the free market is subject to failure.    Affordability of housing for low income groups is the problem.

ABC, 2 weeks ago

The Australian dollar is showing some strength, and that could be good news for travellers
By business reporter David Taylor
Posted Wed 10 Jul 2024 at 5:00amWednesday 10 Jul 2024 at 5:00am, updated Wed 10 Jul 2024 at 10:10am



Reality now
The Australian dollar fell in its longest stretch of losses in almost a year as concerns about China’s economic recovery continue to weigh on the currency and commodity prices.

The local currency dropped for its seventh consecutive session on Tuesday to trade at US66.30¢, its lowest level since June 17. That’s down more than 2 per cent from a peak of US67.84¢ just over a week ago after the Chinese Communist Party’s Third Plenum policy meeting left markets disappointed.





China is going the way Japan did in the 1990s.

China’s newest nuclear submarine sank, setting back its military modernisation

China’s newest nuclear-powered attack submarine sank in the spring, a major setback for one of the country’s priority weapons programs, US officials said.

The episode, which Chinese authorities scrambled to cover up and hasn’t previously been disclosed, occurred at a shipyard near Wuhan in late May or early June.

It comes as China has been pushing to expand its navy, including its fleet of nuclear-powered submarines.

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In a rare move, China on Thursday published a photograph showing the previous day's launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile that can reach most of the continental United States. ... It has a reported range of 6,959 miles, capable of reaching the U.S. mainland (and Australia) from most its deployment areas in China, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists said in a January report.

https://www.newsweek.com/china-news-releases-photo-rare-icbm-test-pacific-1959549