http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plH9s_fyMMQ&feature=player_embedded

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 4:49pm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plH9s_fyMMQ&feature=player_embedded

Abu,
I have no idea what the subject matter of the video is.

I do not have the bandwidth or the plugin, i have not viewed your video.

Is the subject of the video anything to do with this action by Egyptians, expressing their 'will' ???






http://www.jihadwatch.org/images/Egypt_Wall_Thugs_9-9.jpg
Finally the will of the Egyptians shines through ???




Egyptians break into Israeli embassy, dump documents from windows, desecrate flag again,
....as [Egyptian] police stand aside
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/egyptians-break-into-israeli-embassy-dump-documents-from-windows-desecrate-flag-again-as-police-stan.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/peaceful-democratic-arab-spring-egyptians-tear-down-israel-embassys-security-wall.html

If attacking the embassy of a foreign nation is an expression of the will of the Egyptian people, it's no wonder that the civilised world looks down on them as uncivilised barbarians.  

No matter what the disagreements between nations, diplomats and embassies are sacrosanct both by international laws and long standing custom. To disregard such niceties makes these people no better than a mindless rabble. However the violation of diplomatic status is a common occurrence in middle eastern 'nations', indicating a lack of the maturity and intelligence required to be taken seriously on the world stage.

Quote:

However the violation of diplomatic status is a common occurrence in middle eastern 'nations', indicating a lack of the maturity and intelligence required to be taken seriously on the world stage.

It is? Can you name a few examples for me?

The Israeli embassy should not be there in the first place, as the Egyptian, and all other people in the region, do not accept or recognise the imposition on the land of Palestine that is the Zionist descration. For decades American-imposed dictators have forced the people to accept these embassies and these relations with this illegitimate entity, not any more.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 7:51pm:

Quote: However the violation of diplomatic status is a common occurrence in middle eastern 'nations', indicating a lack of the maturity and intelligence required to be taken seriously on the world stage. It is? Can you name a few examples for me?.

US embassy in Tehran, Libyan embassy in London.


abu_rashid wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 7:51pm:

The Israeli embassy should not be there in the first place, as the Egyptian, and all other people in the region, do not accept or recognise the imposition on the land of Palestine that is the Zionist descration. For decades American-imposed dictators have forced the people to accept these embassies and these relations with this illegitimate entity, not any more.

And by this comment you yet again demonstrate why trying to deal with muslims as if they were rational human beings is a waste of time.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 7:51pm:

Quote: However the violation of diplomatic status is a common occurrence in middle eastern 'nations', indicating a lack of the maturity and intelligence required to be taken seriously on the world stage. It is? Can you name a few examples for me? The Israeli embassy should not be there in the first place, as the Egyptian, and all other people in the region, do not accept or recognise the imposition on the land of Palestine that is the Zionist descration. For decades American-imposed dictators have forced the people to accept these embassies and these relations with this illegitimate entity, not any more.

Do you understand that such behaviour could be construed as a declaration of war?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 7:51pm:

Quote: However the violation of diplomatic status is a common occurrence in middle eastern 'nations', indicating a lack of the maturity and intelligence required to be taken seriously on the world stage. It is? Can you name a few examples for me? The Israeli embassy should not be there in the first place, as the Egyptian, and all other people in the region, do not accept or recognise the imposition on the land of Palestine that is the Zionist descration. For decades American-imposed dictators have forced the people to accept these embassies and these relations with this illegitimate entity, not any more.

The Egyptian people didn't say that, 'way back when'.....
.....after they and the Israelis negotiated the Israeli return of the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt -
....on the basis of a peace pact, between both nations.


If the Egyptian people now close the Israeli embassy, and eject the Israeli diplomats....
....will they also agree to withdraw from the Sinai Peninsula ???


An agreement, a pact, a treaty, with a moslem entity....
....isn't worth the paper it is written on.


Google;
treaty of hudaybiyyah, tactical deceit


Google;
agreements with muslims, worthless muslim deception







God forgive me....
.....if 'the Egyptian people' now seize embassy hostages,
OR,
.....if 'the Egyptian people' attack Israel in a new ISLAMIST war,
....then i really, really, hope that Israel nukes Cairo.






+++


Psalms 5:4
For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
5  The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6  Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing [deceit]: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.


Psalms 28:3
Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.
4  Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.

Quote:

US embassy in Tehran

That's about the only case I'm aware of where an embassy was overrun by the people.


Quote:

Libyan embassy in London

What happened at the Libyan embassy... do tell.

Perhaps you mean when British police besieged it? Wouldn't that be the opposite of what you're talking about?

Even if both these cases were correct, that's hardly "a common occurrence"

Sappho,


Quote:

Do you understand that such behaviour could be construed as a declaration of war?

I don't know where you've been, but the Zionists declared war on the entire Muslim world back in the 1920's when they began their little project to swipe a Muslim country, and make it their own. Bit late to realise a state of war exists isn't it?

Yadda wrote on Sep 10^th, 2011 at 10:35pm:

An agreement, a pact, a treaty, with a moslem entity.... ....isn't worth the paper it is written on. Google; treaty of hudaybiyyah, tactical deceit Google; agreements with muslims, worthless muslim deception

see also......
"Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds,"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295407319/0#0

Quote:

+++ From the Jewish O.T. Bible; Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth. +++ From the Koran, Hadith; Allah told Mohammed, it is OK to not fulfil the oaths you make. i.e. If you find something better, you are free to go, and make a better deal, and abandon your first oath. "Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise." Koran 66:2 "The Prophet said, "If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath."." hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #007.067.427 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.078.618 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.709 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.710 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.712 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.715 "expiate my oath", means an obligation to Allah of penance [Kaffara], e.g. fasting for three days, or to clothe or feed poor people. "If you ever take an oath to do something and later on you find that something else is better, then you should expiate your oath and do what is better." hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.260 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.261 "The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: An oath or a vow about something over which a human being has no control, and to disobey Allah, and to break ties of relationship is not binding. If anyone takes an oath and then considers something else better than it, he should give it up, and do what is better, for leaving it is its atonement." hadithsunnah/abudawud/ #021.3268 "Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar said, "Whoever swears by Allah and then says, 'Allah willing' and then does not do what he has sworn to, has not broken his oath." " hadithsunnah/muwatta/ #022.22.6.10 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.260 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.260 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.089.260 +++ God is love. "Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds,..." But who, is Allah? Moslems claim, and would have us believe that; "Allah, and the Jewish God, are the same God." Never. This cannot be so, unless God has had a personality transplant. Read the Koran, and then read the Bible, it is like comparing chalk and cheese.

INFIDEL-ity, and fidelity.

Chalk and cheese.


Dictionary;
fidelity = = continuing loyalty to a person, cause, or belief.






In the book of Jeremiah, the God of Israel stated that if the extent of the heavens could [ever] be found out, and measured by men, God would cast off his people.

Fidelity.

Jeremiah 31:37
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 12:24am:

Sappho, Quote: Do you understand that such behaviour could be construed as a declaration of war? I don't know where you've been, but the Zionists declared war on the entire Muslim world back in the 1920's when they began their little project to swipe a Muslim country, and make it their own. Bit late to realise a state of war exists isn't it?

So what you are saying is that Britain and by default the Commonwealth and the US are at war with all Arab nations and have been since Israel's inception?

You see it was the British that secured Israel for the Jews. It started with the Balfour Declaration and then went on to the British Mandate of Palestine which the US also signed off on; separately of course, since they were not a part of the League of Nations.

Yadda,

No treaty ever existed between the Muslims and the Zionist entity. That's the point here. The treaty existed between the Western installed puppets and the Western installed Zionist entity... ie. the treaty was between the West and herself. Just like the wars were largely between the West and herself. The Zionist trained and installed army against the British led "Arab" legions... A farce designed to fool the gullible, (obviously reaching its intended target in you).

Sappho, not just the Arab world, the entire Muslim world, yes. Again, where have you been?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 12:24am:

What happened at the Libyan embassy... do tell. Perhaps you mean when British police besieged it? Wouldn't that be the opposite of what you're talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher

Let all those who are interested read the link and let's see what the general opinion is.

As far as I can see that's a Western government violating the sanctity of the Libyan embassy...

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 4:49am:

Sappho, not just the Arab world, the entire Muslim world, yes. Again, where have you been?

So in reality we should be rounding up all known Muslims from the Arab region and placing them in Prisoner of War Camps?

If you're a fascist I guess that's what you'd be wanting to do.

Keep in mind here, it is the West that has made this declaration against the Muslim world, not the other way 'round.

So not only are they the victims of these aggressions, you're now suggesting that they should be further vilified and oppressed.

Quite a nasty piece of work aren't you?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 1:31pm:

If you're a fascist I guess that's what you'd be wanting to do.

It is not a fascist thing. It is what is done during war time to protect it's people from the fifth column and enemy soldiers. When the war is over the people are release.

Even Arabs do it. Why they are doing it now in Libya. Are Libyan's fascists therefore?  


Quote:

Keep in mind here, it is the West that has made this declaration against the Muslim world, not the other way 'round.

Irrelevant. War is war no matter who declares it. And during war time, one of the first things to be done is rounding up the fifth column.


Quote:

So not only are they the victims of these aggressions, you're now suggesting that they should be further vilified and oppressed. Quite a nasty piece of work aren't you?

I'm not the one who is saying that we are at war... that was you. So far as I understood we were not at war with all Arab nations.

All I am doing is checking your understanding of what war really means and the various conventions of war that need to be enacted.

But still... judging from your comments you seem to think that the Libyan's because they have prisoners of war are quite a nasty piece of work... is that right?

I don't recall saying Arab nations... this is your invention.

The West declared war on the Muslim world, on the civilians, on the people, on their resources, on their culture, on their society, on their sanctity, on their security, on their peace. The "nations", or the puppet rulers the West put into place, are certainly not at war with the West, they are sustained by the West. Hence the misunderstanding about the Israeli embassy in Cairo. The puppet government there respects the embassy, and defends it with their lives, and the Israelis acknowledge that. The people on the other hand are a different kettle of fish.

Imprisoning people based on their religion/race etc. is fascism, pure and simple, and I think you well know it.

If Israel wanted to they could blow every Arab nation off the face of the planet tomorrow. They should all consider themselves lucky Israel shows constraint.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 1:31pm:

.....Keep in mind here, it is the West that has made this declaration against the Muslim world, not the other way 'round. So not only are they [moslems!] the victims of these aggressions, you're now suggesting that they should be further vilified and oppressed. Quite a nasty piece of work aren't you?

This is all a bit rich [A BIG LIE] Abu.


+++


"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98
[i.e. 'Unbelief' is a crime.]

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76
[i.e. Fighting against 'unbelievers' is sanctified, fighting against 'unbelievers' is 'good works'. Because 'unbelievers' [of Allah] are in league with SATAN. So those who are indeed, good moslems will fight against the 'unbelievers'.]

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them."
Koran 3.28

"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196




+++


Abu,

You know, very well, that ISLAM mandates [holds it to every moslem, as a 'religious' obligation], that a state of enmity and warfare MUST ALWAYS EXIST towards ALL non-moslems.

Isn't it true that ISLAM, from its very inception has been at war with ALL of 'unbelieving' mankind ???

Didn't Allah inform Mohammed, that Allah [and therefore ALL moslems!], are engaged in never-ending warfare with ALL of 'unbelieving' mankind ???



And, that ISLAM mandates, that moslems ARE NEVER ALLOWED TO EXTEND PEACEFUL RELATIONS, TO NON-MOSLEMS, NOR TO NON-MOSLEM NATIONS.
....but only a hudna [truce].

But THAT truce MUST only be extended, until moslems feel themselves strong enough to engage in a 'hot' war [Jihad] with 'unbelievers'.




Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims London, Sept.8 [2007] A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war. Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece





AND;




Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian. Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'" Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders." And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us". These texts are not fossils from a distant past. They are not dead letters. They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world. ...DDA

Google it.


n.b.
"Killing infidels is a small matter to us"

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 9:24pm:

Imprisoning people based on their religion/race etc. is fascism, pure and simple, and I think you well know it.

I concede that that, would be a 'fascist' act.


But ISLAM is not a 'race', and ISLAM is hardly a religion.

ISLAM is not a religion, not in any sense of the word [as understood to the Western mind].

Why not?

Because ISLAM teaches moslems that it is 'lawful' [for moslems] to kill people who reject ISLAM.

And because ISLAM is not about promoting any form of spirituality.

But the focus of all of ISLAM's doctrines are about promoting the use of deception, blatant lying, intimidation, terror, extreme violence, and murder, in seeking what ???

In seeking to achieve ISLAM's WORLDLY and POLITICAL aims,  ....to POLITICALLY dominate and rule over all of mankind.

ISLAM, is NOT a religion, in any Western, traditional sense of that word.




e.g.

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98
[i.e. 'Unbelief' is a crime.]

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76
[i.e. Fighting against 'unbelievers' is sanctified, fighting against 'unbelievers' is 'good works'. Because 'unbelievers' [of Allah] are in league with SATAN. So those who are indeed, good moslems will fight against the 'unbelievers'.]

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


The Hadith,
"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260


+++

ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110

n.b. "Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





Abu,

You accuse those in the West of fascist acts, BECAUSE, we resist, and seek to defend ourselves from ISLAMIC violence, being directed against non-moslems.


But isn't ISLAM, in fact, a fascist philosophy, which is hiding behind a 'veil' of deception and blatant lying, by calling itself, a 'religion', and portraying itself [to the naive and the uninformed] as a tolerant philosophy ???


In my book, it is ISLAM itself which is a fascist philosophy.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 11^th, 2011 at 9:24pm:

I don't recall saying Arab nations... this is your invention.

It was not an invention. It was an assumption based on the fact that we were discussing an Arab region in which Israel finds itself. It was a rather reasonable assumption at that.


Quote:

The West declared war on the Muslim world, on the civilians, on the people, on their resources, on their culture, on their society, on their sanctity, on their security, on their peace.

Ah, I see. This is not a territorial dispute, this is a what? Racial dispute? No... that can't be because Muslims come from all ethnicities. And it can't be religious because The West has welcomed many religions including Muslims into their fold... indeed in the West, Muslims are the second largest religious group after Catholics did you know.  And it can't be a 'white' thang, because there are too many 'white' Muslims.

So, what is this war you speak of?


Quote:

The "nations", or the puppet rulers the West put into place, are certainly not at war with the West, they are sustained by the West. Hence the misunderstanding about the Israeli embassy in Cairo. The puppet government there respects the embassy, and defends it with their lives, and the Israelis acknowledge that. The people on the other hand are a different kettle of fish.

You have a lot of hate and not a lot of substance in that paragraph.


Quote:

Imprisoning people based on their religion/race etc. is fascism, pure and simple, and I think you well know it.

You said we were at war. When there is war, nations must protect themselves against the fifth column. The fifth column is not a race or religion. It is those people from those nations with whom we are at war irrespective of their race, creed or colour. During WWII for example, many Germans were rounded up in Australia and placed into internment camps because you just can't know who the sleepers are. It is wrong of you to twist the standard conventions of war into a cry against racism.

Lest we forget, only the Western Nations actively pursue an official policy of Multiculturalism. No non Western nation does. Go google it. And you dare to call The West racist? I suggest you take a look around the world and re-evaluate your position. It is not The West who are racist... and we haven't been for a long time.

You cannot judge a nation by a few trashy citizens which you may have happened across. It is not fair or just.

double post

All Abus rantings destroyed by Sapphos logic....but don't expect him to admit this, for it must shame him before allah to be metaphorically routed by an infidel female. ;)

Belgarion wrote on Sep 12^th, 2011 at 8:43pm:

All Abus rantings destroyed by Sapphos logic....but don't expect him to admit this, for it must shame him before allah to be metaphorically routed by an infidel female. ;)

A moslem will NEVER, EVER, concede that the logic and reason of an 'unbeliever', can expose a fault within ISLAM.

ISLAM is Allah's already perfect religion [according to moslems].

THEREFORE, the 'unbeliever' [and his/her logic/reason] is in error, ALWAYS.

Belgarion wrote on Sep 12^th, 2011 at 8:43pm:

All Abus rantings destroyed by Sapphos logic....but don't expect him to admit this, for it must shame him before allah to be metaphorically routed by an infidel female. ;)

lol...righteo. Do you come with pom poms as well, or is cheer leading a part time job for you.

Oh...and by the way. 'Infidel' is in fact a christian term...it is latin, to describe one of little faith. It is/was used by Christians in fact, to describe muslims and other peoples of the orient.

You may know of the english equivalent...that being 'infidelity'.

I suggest you do some research before making yourself look foolish...again.  :)