I sent an email to the immigration minister a while back asking whether we had a policy on immmigration of people with ideologies that oppose democracy and freedom, like Islamism, Nazism and Zionism. I still haven't recieved a response. Does anyone know what our policy is?

So does that mean it's easy to get in as long as we're not Zog?

Awesome.. I can refrain from holding my arm out and yelling HEIL!!! for awhile.. ;D

I could see very little in regard to immigrants opposing democracy and freedom.  I suppose the whole point of living in a democratic country is that immigrants have the freedom to oppose our democracy and freedom.

The nearest we've come is the citizenship test which Howard revised ie. as long as immigrants know who won the test match in 1901 and similar questions - they're allowed in.

The following site explains the constitutional and legal meanings of citizenship, naturalisation and revocation of naturalisation.  It would take some plodding through if you could be bothered.

http://www.naa.gov.au/naaresources/publications/research_guides/guides/ctznship/chapt2b.htm


When Beazley was opposition leader though he proposed a values test, which got nowhere - but he was on the right track.


Prime Minister John Howard has criticised a small section of the Muslim community for failing to integrate, including not adhering to Australian values such as respect for women.

Mr Beazley said including such a statement on visas would send a strong message about what Australia expected. But ethnic community representatives were sceptical, while the Government said it was already doing a great deal to make newcomers aware of Australian values.

Mr Beazley said Australian values of "respect for each other, mateship, fairness, freedom and respect for our laws are the front line in the struggle against extremists and terrorists".

The Australian values in the visa statement would include:

■ Respect for Australia's institutions, including its democracy, laws, courts, parliaments, armed forces and police.

■ Respect for different religions and cultures, for the equal treatment of women, and for hard work.

"Why wait until somebody applies for citizenship before making them commit to live as part of our society? I don't see the sense in waiting three years to demand a fair go," Mr Beazley said.

A spokesman for Mr Beazley said the "values" declaration would be required not just for residency visas, but for tourist visas as well.

Mr Beazley also suggested there should be sessions for migrants on Australian values including "the right treatment of women, the right treatment of each other and respect for each other's position in a democracy".

Education could play a significant role in making Australia safer, he said. Labor in government would make sure respect for Australian values played a strong role in school curriculums.

The president of the Islamic Council of Victoria, Malcolm Thomas, said Mr Beazley's visa proposal was a novel idea worthy of some focus group research.

"I don't know how effective it would be: it might be like the terms and conditions on a warranty — you see them there but don't read them," he said.

The chair of the Federation of Ethnic Communities Councils of Australia, Voula Messimemi, said Mr Beazley seemed to be trying to go one better than the Government's floating of a citizenship test. "If you're trying to reduce or eliminate terrorism, to put a list of values on a visa is a fairly ineffective tool." Anyway, she said, "apart from the rule of law and democracy, the jury's still out on what are Australian values".

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/beazley-proposes-visitors-migrants-agree-to-values/2006/09/11/1157826875313.html

Although personally I just think Beazley was trying to sound like he's just as "fair dinkum" as Howard and fighting for "Australianness", his ideas do have some merit.

New immigrants coming to Australia could at least be made aware of the way society functions here. Making a test out of it though is just nonsense. Just give them some presentations,  and try to make it clear to them this society functions the way it does and that you need to learn how to adapt to it.

But in the end, people are free to believe pretty much what they like in Australia fd, and you can't  change that, no matter how much you'd like to.

You need to understand though that there's a very fine line between mandatory acceptance of Australian values, and denying people political freedom. Otherwise opposition parties could soon be banned because their policies are the opposite of the rulings party.

If anyone who wants to change laws/values etc. becomes anti-Australian and an affront to Australian values, then pretty much all opposition parties will be out. Because they all seek in some way or another to modify those things..

It is anti Australian to wish to discard democracy in preference to theocracy or any other form of dictatorship. Quiet simple really.
However it is hard to make sure that people like that won't lie when are asked the question. It would help if the question is direct and possible answer is yes or no so they can not claim mistranslation, deflect or avoid answering.

Quote:

Mr Beazley said Australian values of "respect for each other, mateship, fairness, freedom and respect for our laws are the front line in the struggle against extremists and terrorists".

Beazley, get rid of mateship you clown. No wonder no-one took this seriously. I think democracy is more important than respect for our laws. If someone doesn't think democracy is the best form of government, don't let them in.

The equal treatment of women is an important one.


Quote:

Mr Beazley also suggested there should be sessions for migrants on Australian values including "the right treatment of women, the right treatment of each other and respect for each other's position in a democracy".

Another good suggestion. It needs to be more than signing on on a bit of paper.


Quote:

"If you're trying to reduce or eliminate terrorism, to put a list of values on a visa is a fairly ineffective tool."

Strawman.


Quote:

But in the end, people are free to believe pretty much what they like in Australia fd, and you can't  change that, no matter how much you'd like to.

Abu I'm not trying to change what Australians believe with this. I think we should change who we let into this country, that's all.


Quote:

You need to understand though that there's a very fine line between mandatory acceptance of Australian values, and denying people political freedom.

This is about denying them Australian citizenship, which I think is totally reasonable. It is not about denying citizens political freedom.


Quote:

Otherwise opposition parties could soon be banned because their policies are the opposite of the rulings party.

That's a bit of a stretch Abu. It is a citizenship test. Valuing democracy is all about valuing the right of people to form opposition parties.

On a different topic, our net immigration is about 180 000 people per year, with about 13 000 in the humanitarian programme (not all refugees).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Australia

John Howard increased immigration to the highest level ever seen in Australia. Yet at the same time, he managed to portray himself as stemming the tide of immigration by attacking refugees.

Whitlam had a zero net immigration policy.

Immigration has only just overtaken natural increases in population as the cause of population growth in Australia.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2009 at 9:38am:

But in the end, people are free to believe pretty much what they like in Australia fd, and you can't change that, no matter how much you'd like to. You need to understand though that there's a very fine line between mandatory acceptance of Australian values, and denying people political freedom.

Freedom of conscience is not feedom of action. And there is a mile, rather than a fine line, between accepting Australia values and freedom of political action. It is called treason.

The fine line is, rather, between dislike of and opposition to political islam and islamophobia
Like this example from Al-Canada shows:

Which side of the war would you like to be on?  
Old-fashioned types might think that those Britons - okay, make that "Britons" - helping to manufacture bombs for the Taliban are engaged in an act of treason. But, as a current court case in Quebec helps clarify, giving support to the Queen's enemies in their attempts to kill your compatriots is now just another vibrant, colourful manifestation of cultural diversity.
As the International Free Press Society notes, Said Namouh is on trial up north for aiding and abetting terrorism. The Crown charges that Mr Namouh distributed jihadist snuff videos, offered advice on bomb-making, volunteered his expertise for a planned truck bombing, and threatened governments (including Canada's) with troops in Afghanistan. Defence counsel René Duvall doesn't deny any of this, but says his client's enthusiasm for violent jihad is protected on grounds of freedom of religion and (mirthless chuckle from your humble typist) Canadians' cherished right to freedom of expression. As Maître Duvall put it outside the court, "Where do you draw the line?"

In fact, the line seems to be pretty clear: If a jihadist says he wants to kill Canadian troops, he's just exercising his right to freedom of religion. If I quote what he said in Canada's biggest-selling news weekly, we'll be charged with "flagrant Islamophobia" and hauled up in court.
[Mark Steyn]

Considering this is Australia and we are Australians (well most of us consider ourselves that)... just what is wrong with "Australianness"(sic) Abu?

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2009 at 10:50pm:

I sent an email to the immigration minister a while back asking whether we had a policy on immmigration of people with ideologies that oppose democracy and freedom, like Islamism, Nazism and Zionism. I still haven't recieved a response. Does anyone know what our policy is?

Perhaps we should look to Britain for an example.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/world/multiculturalism-policies-in-britain-a-failure-says-pm-david-cameron/story-e6frea9c-1226000767482

PRIME Minister David Cameron has condemned Britain's long-standing policy of multiculturalism as a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism.

In a speech to the Munich Security Conference, Mr Cameron signalled a marked change in policy towards Britain's ethnic and religious minorities, saying the "hands-off tolerance" of those who reject Western values has failed.

He urged a "more active, muscular liberalism" where equal rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech and democracy are actively promoted to create a stronger national identity.

"If we are to defeat this threat, I believe it's time to turn the page on the failed policies of the past," he said.

It was Mr Cameron's first major speech on Islamist extremism, an issue of major concern for British governments ever since four home-grown suicide bombers attacked the London transport system in 2005, killing 52 people.

The Prime Minister, who took power last May, argued that "under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream".

He said this had resulted in a lack of national identity in Britain which had made some young Muslims turn to extremist ideology.

"Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," Mr Cameron said.

"A passively tolerant society says to its citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone. It stands neutral between different values.

"A genuinely liberal country does much more. It believes in certain values and actively promotes them.... It says to its citizens: this is what defines us as a society."

Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same thing".

But he argued that non-violent organisations which present themselves as a gateway to the Muslim community but are ambiguous on Western values should no longer receive state funding, and should be banned from university campuses.

His speech echoed controversial remarks made by German Chancellor Angela Merkel last year, when she also called multiculturalism a failure, saying Germany had not devoted enough attention to the integration of immigrants.

"What I mean to say is that for years, for decades, the approach was that integration was not something that needed to be addressed, that people would live side-by-side and that it would sort itself out," Ms Merkel said in November.

"This turned out to be false."

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2009 at 10:50pm:

I sent an email to the immigration minister a while back asking whether we had a policy on immmigration of people with ideologies that oppose democracy and freedom, like Islamism, Nazism and Zionism. I still haven't recieved a response. Does anyone know what our policy is?

In the real world how would you be able to judge someone's ideology? You could have a test but just like the driving test people would tend to just give the answers required to pass.

I've had a similar discussion with those that beat their chests and shout "BAN MUSLIM IMMIGRATION". I ask them to provide a real world example of how this could be done but they couldn't. The closest they got was to force immigrants to eat pork before they could immigrate but this would mean that no vegetarians would be able to come to this country (plus there would be some human rights issues)

Getting back to the topic, how can we legislate against what people think?

Abu you greasy toad if you don't want to live by our rules F**K off back to the slime hole you used to call home.

Quote:

In the real world how would you be able to judge someone's ideology?

Ask them.


Quote:

You could have a test but just like the driving test people would tend to just give the answers required to pass.

Immigration tests are not multiple choice.


Quote:

I've had a similar discussion with those that beat their chests and shout "BAN MUSLIM IMMIGRATION".

That would be religious discrimination. We should only discriminate agains those who are ideologically opposed to freedom and democracy.


Quote:

I ask them to provide a real world example of how this could be done but they couldn't.

It's simple. You ask them questions, like I did with Abu. You will figure out quickly enough how to cut through the BS to what someone actually thinks.


Quote:

Getting back to the topic, how can we legislate against what people think?

You can only legislate against letting them into the country. We already put up a lot of requirements about people's morals.

Ok, FD, now I'm sort of curious as to why you included Zionism with Nazism and Islamism??

To be fair.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 12:28pm:

Ok, FD, now I'm sort of curious as to why you included Zionism with Nazism and Islamism??

we need a drastic reduction in state power, control over our lives and ability to engage in futurism, long term economic planing and social engineering.  I am personally engaged in the fight to have my Tax File number deleted - are you? :)

Aren't we all?

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 12:29pm:

To be fair.

Huh??

It doesn't really matter what the label is. If people oppose freedom and democracy, they are not welcome.

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 1:03pm:

It doesn't really matter what the label is. If people oppose freedom and democracy, they are not welcome.

I agree completely...

I was just wondering if you're using "Secretly run the world" version of zionism....or the actual real meaning??

Gillard promised she would deliver her "sustainable population" policy, however, this was before the election, so I guess not being a 'core' political promise, this is no longer applicable/on the table?

See there are core, and non-core ALP policies!


:)

Agreed, there are two types of Zimunism, covert and overt.

Covert being the more dangerous of the two!

8-).....anything 'covert' is dangerous, this and isn't democratic.

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 12:29pm:

To be fair.

As I said elsewhere, you and millions of others have successfully absorbed and accommodated the Islamist view and have come out with the 'Zionism is fasism' trope on fairness grounds. How utterly ridiculous.

Why the jews alone are not entitled to national self-determination is left unexplained by all the mindless  'zionism is fascism' mob.
Israel does not want to impose Juadism on the world, or to make all other countries its vassals the way the fascists and Islmists want to bring the world under their own ideological control.

It takes a particular kind of wilful and nasty stupidity to accuse Israel of all countries of being fascist state. It shows ignorance of both Zionism and fascism.

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 1:11pm:

Agreed, there are two types of Zimunism, covert and overt. Covert being the more dangerous of the two! 8-).....anything 'covert' is dangerous, this and isn't democratic.

Not quite mellie, there ARE two types of Zionism 'mentioned' on the internet....

One is the 'overt' one....which is/was a 'political' position, from the 1890's up until today, which is simply support for the existence (and right to defence) of the country called Israel......This actually exists...


The 'covert' type has been 'made up' by paranoid loons who think there is a secret group of people, made up of rich, powerful people, who secretly make ALL the real decisions of every government every where and want to enslave all people on earth at the behest of which ever alien race is currently seeking to take over the world...


Basically, go read any of it_is_the_light's posts in the Spirituality thread....from Lord SaLuSa or one of the "LightSpeakers"....and you'll understand..

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 1:25pm:

mellie wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 1:11pm: Agreed, there are two types of Zimunism, covert and overt. Covert being the more dangerous of the two! 8-).....anything 'covert' is dangerous, this and isn't democratic. Not quite mellie, there ARE two types of Zionism 'mentioned' on the internet.... One is the 'overt' one....which is/was a 'political' position, from the 1890's up until today, which is simply support for the existence (and right to defence) of the country called Israel......This actually exists... The 'covert' type has been 'made up' by paranoid loons who think there is a secret group of people, made up of rich, powerful people, who secretly make ALL the real decisions of every government every where and want to enslave all people on earth at the behest of which ever alien race is currently seeking to take over the world... Basically, go read any of it_is_the_light's posts in the Spirituality thread....from Lord SaLuSa or one of the "LightSpeakers"....and you'll understand..

Fair enough, I try not to read itthelights post though Giz, they were bad enough on Yahoo lol.

I'm sure he means well, but....  it's a tad extreme.

I agree with what you are saying, about people going too far with their silly new-world-order conspiracy theories when denoting to any particular religious order or political movement, but I do think there's still a concern with fascism and corporate communism in this country, and I don't think they discriminate (race/religion wise)  don't particularly care who funds their agenda, be it extreme Zionists, Muslims, or Christians.

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 1:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 1:25pm: mellie wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 1:11pm: Agreed, there are two types of Zimunism, covert and overt. Covert being the more dangerous of the two! 8-).....anything 'covert' is dangerous, this and isn't democratic. Not quite mellie, there ARE two types of Zionism 'mentioned' on the internet.... One is the 'overt' one....which is/was a 'political' position, from the 1890's up until today, which is simply support for the existence (and right to defence) of the country called Israel......This actually exists... The 'covert' type has been 'made up' by paranoid loons who think there is a secret group of people, made up of rich, powerful people, who secretly make ALL the real decisions of every government every where and want to enslave all people on earth at the behest of which ever alien race is currently seeking to take over the world... Basically, go read any of it_is_the_light's posts in the Spirituality thread....from Lord SaLuSa or one of the "LightSpeakers"....and you'll understand.. Fair enough, I try not to read itthelights post though Giz, they were bad enough on Yahoo lol. I'm sure he means well, but....  it's a tad extreme. I agree with what you are saying, about people going too far with their silly new-world-order conspiracy theories when denoting to any particular religious order or political movement, but I do think there's still a concern with fascism and corporate communism in this country, and I don't think they discriminate (race/religion wise)  don't particularly care who funds their agenda, be it extreme Zionists, Muslims, or Christians.

Well that's kinda my point......'extreme' Zionism is sort of contradiction in terms (to my mind)....it's sort of like being an 'extreme Australianist'......

I can understand the idea of 'extreme' Judaism....because you see comments all the time, from the rabid Rabbis (and there are a fair few around) who want to kill or expell all non-jews from Israel etc....Or from extreme Islamists or Christians, who want to convert the world to their faith..

But how do you have an 'extreme' (Israel has a Right to Exist), idea???

It's like being an extreme Liberal/Labor/Green.....It's not really a threat to democracy is it??

Quote:

It's like being an extreme Liberal/Labor/Green.....It's not really a threat to democracy is it??

-Giz, no, not strictly speaking, agreed, however,  when these extremists, be they religious groups or even corps start influencing  crucial policy/politics, which gives way to fascism, yes, they can interfere with the fair democratic process  itself, discarding others right to freedom in the process.

Take our 'biased' unbalanced media for example ... and how some might argue how biased it's become, this and how this plays a central role in televising pro-(whatever given party they are funding) agenda.

It all comes down to $$$$$, and unfortunately, why do you think Gillard is so pro-Israel?  Because it gives her much needed airtime on channel 7.

Otherwise she wouldn't give a sh1t about Israel!

Lol, she even pimped her boyfriend Mathieson out to a Zionist (Ubertas's) development mob in Melbourne, had him selling prestigious property for them as some sort of assurance...well, until we all found out about it at which point he had to resign.

The currency of money speaks all languages and to all groups!

8-)i

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:14pm:

Quote: It's like being an extreme Liberal/Labor/Green.....It's not really a threat to democracy is it?? -Giz, no, not strictly speaking, agreed, however,  when these extremists, be they religious groups or even corps are influencing policy/politics, which gives way to fascism, yes, they can interfere with the fair democratic process of itself, discarding others right to freedom in the process. Take our 'biased' unbalanced media for example ... and how some might argue how biased it's become, this and how this plays a central role in televising pro-(whatever given party they are funding) agenda. It all comes down to $$$$$, and unfortunately, why do you think Gillard is so pro-Israel?  Because it gives her much needed airtime on channel 7. Otherwise she wouldn't give a sh1t about Israel! Lol, she even pimped her boyfriend Mathieson out to a Zionist (Ubertas's) development mob in Melbourne, had him selling prestigious property for them as some sort of assurance...well, until we all found out about it at which point he had to resign. The currency of money speaks all languages and to all groups! 8-)

Yeah mellie....but Zionism is NOT related to Fascism...I know you might think so....but it's like trying to relate Nationalism to Communism.....chalk and cheese, it's quite the opposite

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:17pm:

mellie wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 2:14pm: Quote: It's like being an extreme Liberal/Labor/Green.....It's not really a threat to democracy is it?? -Giz, no, not strictly speaking, agreed, however,  when these extremists, be they religious groups or even corps are influencing policy/politics, which gives way to fascism, yes, they can interfere with the fair democratic process of itself, discarding others right to freedom in the process. Take our 'biased' unbalanced media for example ... and how some might argue how biased it's become, this and how this plays a central role in televising pro-(whatever given party they are funding) agenda. It all comes down to $$$$$, and unfortunately, why do you think Gillard is so pro-Israel?  Because it gives her much needed airtime on channel 7. Otherwise she wouldn't give a sh1t about Israel! Lol, she even pimped her boyfriend Mathieson out to a Zionist (Ubertas's) development mob in Melbourne, had him selling prestigious property for them as some sort of assurance...well, until we all found out about it at which point he had to resign. The currency of money speaks all languages and to all groups! 8-) Yeah mellie....but Zionism is NOT related to Fascism...I know you might think so....but it's like trying to relate Nationalism to Communism.....chalk and cheese, it's quite the opposite

Define fascism,  fact is, it's principles are the same...essentially, chequebook privy for some groups/classes, and not others, irrespective of what group/class they be.

Personally, I don't like the idea of any religious group, or corporation, development mob etc having this much of a self-interested say in our nations politics. We pay politicians to run our country, not them...and whilst they, like all Australians are entitled to their say too, I don't think this is overly balanced right now...(media wise) whereby we are becoming quite fascist indeed.

I knew this was the case when we saw BHP's CEO publicly promoting Gillards policies, re- a Carbon tax late last year.

lol

;D

"Whitlam had a zero net immigration policy."
yes, and that's what it still should be.
j.

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 2:17pm: mellie wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 2:14pm: Quote: It's like being an extreme Liberal/Labor/Green.....It's not really a threat to democracy is it?? -Giz, no, not strictly speaking, agreed, however,  when these extremists, be they religious groups or even corps are influencing policy/politics, which gives way to fascism, yes, they can interfere with the fair democratic process of itself, discarding others right to freedom in the process. Take our 'biased' unbalanced media for example ... and how some might argue how biased it's become, this and how this plays a central role in televising pro-(whatever given party they are funding) agenda. It all comes down to $$$$$, and unfortunately, why do you think Gillard is so pro-Israel?  Because it gives her much needed airtime on channel 7. Otherwise she wouldn't give a sh1t about Israel! Lol, she even pimped her boyfriend Mathieson out to a Zionist (Ubertas's) development mob in Melbourne, had him selling prestigious property for them as some sort of assurance...well, until we all found out about it at which point he had to resign. The currency of money speaks all languages and to all groups! 8-) Yeah mellie....but Zionism is NOT related to Fascism...I know you might think so....but it's like trying to relate Nationalism to Communism.....chalk and cheese, it's quite the opposite Define fascism,  fact is, it's principles are the same...essentially, chequebook privy for some groups/classes, and not others, irrespective of what group/class they be. Personally, I don't like the idea of any religious group, or corporation, development mob etc having this much of a self-interested say in our nations politics. We pay politicians to run our country, not them...and whilst they, like all Australians are entitled to their say too, I don't think this is overly balanced right now...(media wise) whereby we are becoming quite fascist indeed. I knew this was the case when we saw BHP's CEO publicly promoting Gillards policies, re- a Carbon tax late last year. lol ;D

"Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy."

Happy???

NOW you can explain how THAT relates to the support of the existence of an individual country..

Quote:

but Zionism is NOT related to Fascism

-Giz

No, but it can be, this and can result in the same chequebook determined outcome where our policies are concerned.


Ie...the same pro-Israel Zionist development mob Gillards boyfriend was working for down in Melbourne up to and during the election made generous campaign donations to the ALP.

This and are also personal friends of the Rudds, having spent New Years with them the year before. David Koch is a personal friend of Rudd, and I don't have a problem with this, until it begins to demonstrate a degree of bias in our media.

So....


Yes 'Zionism' can take on fascist tones, in this context. Anything can really...religious group or otherwise..because it all comes down to $$$$.

On the whole, I really like Jewish people, I like their living values and standards, the clean way in which they live, and I especially like the way they place so much importance and value on their children's education, ..but like all groups, this has the potential to be disadvantageous when it comes to political funding also.

:)

I think you need to look into 'Fascism' a little more deeply Giz, no offence intended.

Look into..."Religious fascism," sometimes called "clerical fascism," Giz.


:) It's not exclusive to corporations.

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:37pm:

I think you need to look into 'Fascism' a little more deeply Giz, no offence intended. Look into..."Religious fascism," sometimes called "clerical fascism," Giz. :) It's not exclusive to corporations.

LOL yes that's cute mellie.....BUT Zionism ISN'T a 'religious' concept...

"Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is primarily a nationalist or national liberation, Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland. Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to advocate on behalf of the Jewish state and address threats to its continued existence and security. In a less common usage, the term may also refer to 1) non-political, Cultural Zionism, founded and represented most prominently by Ahad Ha'am; and 2) political support for the State of Israel by non-Jews, as in Christian Zionism"

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:30pm:

Quote: but Zionism is NOT related to Fascism -Giz No, but it can be, this and can result in the same chequebook determined outcome where our policies are concerned. Ie...the same pro-Israel Zionist development mob Gillards boyfriend was working for down in Melbourne up to and during the election made generous campaign donations to the ALP. This and are also personal friends of the Rudds, having spent New Years with them the year before. David Koch is a personal friend of Rudd, and I don't have a problem with this, until it begins to demonstrate a degree of bias in our media. So.... Yes 'Zionism' can take on fascist tones, in this context. Anything can really...religious group or otherwise..because it all comes down to $$$$. On the whole, I really like Jewish people, I like their living values and standards, the clean way in which they live, and I especially like the way they place so much importance and value on their children's education, ..but like all groups, this has the potential to be disadvantageous when it comes to political funding also. :)

Hmm mellie, do you believe that Australia has the right to 'self-determination'?? And the right to make our own internal and international policies without the US, England or the UN telling us what to do or how to think....and, Finally, the right to exist as a free and indpendant country???

Quote:

LOL yes that's cute mellie.....BUT Zionism ISN'T a 'religious' concept...

-By giz

It doesn't have to be, but they can and do use 'religion' to bankroll their political objectives,( under guise of saving Israel)  and donations generated from this is put towards funding political campaigns none the less, as has been demonstrated.


Quote:

Hmm mellie, do you believe that Australia has the right to 'self-determination'??

by Giz?

Yes I do, but think this should extend to all Australians, not just some fortunate enough to have the right genetic composition.

:) Ie, save Israel vote Labor!!

This was the message being delivered to the Jewish community last election, some of their students were so annoyed with this they went public about it and were ostracised from their Jewish communities (one even lost his job as the editor for an online Jewish journal/newspaper)  for having told fellow Jewish students to vote for who they think they should vote for, not who their Rabbi tells them to vote for as per postal vote arrangement given elections fall on the Sabbath.

....  Not fascism you think?

Lol

;D Wakey wakey Giz.

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:01pm:

Quote: LOL yes that's cute mellie.....BUT Zionism ISN'T a 'religious' concept... -By giz It doesn't have to be, but they can and do use 'religion' to bankroll their political donations none the less, as has been demonstrated. [quote]Hmm mellie, do you believe that Australia has the right to 'self-determination'??

by Giz?

Yes I do, but think this should extend to all Australians, not just some fortunate enough to have the right genetic composition.

:) Ie, save Israel vote Labor!!

This was the message being delivered to the Jewish community last election, some of their students were so annoyed with this they went public about it and were ostracise from their communities for having told fellow Jewish student to vote for who they think they should vote for, not who their Rabbi tells them to vote for as per postal vote!

8-)

[/quote]

LOL but you DO think Australia has the right to exist???

What do you mean "right genetic composition"???

You do realise that Arab people are FULL citizens in Israel, and can vote, hold seats in the Knesset, own businesses, join the army etc etc, don't you??? Or do you just automatically believe all the rubbish from the anti-semite sites???

To give you a comparison, right now Australia has ONE Indigenous Politician in Federal Parliament...Kenneth George Wyatt AM, out of 150 in the House of Representatives

Israel has 12 Arab members of the Knesset, out of 120...

So, Australia = 0.006% of the Parliament is Indigenous
And Israel = 10% of the Parliament(Knesset) is Arab....


So which country is 'less' caring???

Giz, when we start talking about "Religious/clerical fascism," we are talking about deep-politics, which can be somewhat like deep-space, a little unexplored and hypothesised in places, but it's getting there, this and I think it's definitely something worth exploring none the less.

Especially in light of how 'fascist' our country has become in recent years.

:)

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:01pm:

Quote: LOL yes that's cute mellie.....BUT Zionism ISN'T a 'religious' concept... -By giz It doesn't have to be, but they can and do use 'religion' to bankroll their political objectives,( under guise of saving Israel)  and donations generated from this is put towards funding political campaigns none the less, as has been demonstrated. [quote]Hmm mellie, do you believe that Australia has the right to 'self-determination'??

by Giz?

Yes I do, but think this should extend to all Australians, not just some fortunate enough to have the right genetic composition.

:) Ie, save Israel vote Labor!!

This was the message being delivered to the Jewish community last election, some of their students were so annoyed with this they went public about it and were ostracised from their Jewish communities (one even lost his job as the editor for an online Jewish journal/newspaper)  for having told fellow Jewish students to vote for who they think they should vote for, not who their Rabbi tells them to vote for as per postal vote arrangement given elections fall on the Sabbath.

....  Not fascism you think?

Lol

;D Wakey wakey Giz.
[/quote]

Why is voting for the a Government(in another country) that supports 'your' homeland 'Facism'???

Is asking ex-pat Australians to vote for a 'pro-Australian' (or Australian friendly) US President....Facism..or smart politics??

Australian political elections should be about what's best for our nation, predominantly, not be bankrolled by those with a vested political interest in another nations politics ie Israel.

Don't you think?

8-)

Australia's immigration policy, should be about policy concerning the intake of immigrants, not be about immigrants, religious groups, corps funding specific political party's campaigns with a view to 'instilling' political policies of their own.

And to them, Gillard says thank you for their $generosity$, hence Jewish schools are being funded more than any other independent schools in Australia.

8-)

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 1:06pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 1:03pm: It doesn't really matter what the label is. If people oppose freedom and democracy, they are not welcome. I agree completely... I was just wondering if you're using "Secretly run the world" version of zionism....or the actual real meaning??

I have no idea where it was from, but something I read at the time indicated that Zionism should be on the list.

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:35pm:

Australian political elections should be about what's best for our nation, predominantly, not be bankrolled by those with a vested political interest in another nations politics ie Israel. Don't you think? 8-)

No, I'm not THAT naive....do you really think that the Italian Gov, British Gov ,American Gov don't ask, or expect, recent immigrants (from their country) ,to vote for which ever party shows the 'most'  inclination to support their country???

They'd ALL like the immigrants to pick the party that will 'favour' them....

It's natural...If your parent's STILL live in a foreign country, of course you'll vote for the party that likes THAT country more...


Just because they're Jews, doesn't make it any worse than if they were English....Unless you're a bigot...

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:44pm:

mellie wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 3:35pm: Australian political elections should be about what's best for our nation, predominantly, not be bankrolled by those with a vested political interest in another nations politics ie Israel. Don't you think? 8-) No, I'm not THAT naive....do you really think that the Italian Gov, British Gov ,American Gov don't ask, or expect, recent immigrants (from their country) ,to vote for which ever party shows the 'most'  inclination to support their country??? They'd ALL like the immigrants to pick the party that will 'favour' them.... It's natural...If your parent's STILL live in a foreign country, of course you'll vote for the party that likes THAT country more... Just because they're Jews, doesn't make it any worse than if they were English....Unless you're a bigot...

...

Sorry, you have just crashed and burned,(lost the debate)  by implying I'm a bigot on account of my being opposed to all forms of 'fascism' when I have already made it clear this applies to all groups, religions, corps  donating and having too much instrumental input in Australian policy,...thus is a deal breaker Giz. Sorry.

Time you sat in the naughty corner with a dunce hat on your head.

;D

Still, you had to give it a crack I guess... ::)

It's about what's best for all, not just a few!

:)

Quote:

As I said elsewhere, you and millions of others have successfully absorbed and accommodated the Islamist view and

So you think I came up with a policy that would exclude from immigration problematic ideologies like Abu's version of Islam because I have been tricked into believing him?


Quote:

Why the jews alone are not entitled to national self-determination

Soren, this is about Australia's immigration policy.

It cant be a fair and democratic process, when this process (power) only applies to a given group funding a chosen political campaign.

It's called purchased power, 'fascism' ...in a nutshell.

:)

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:58pm:

It cant be a fair and democratic process, when this process (power) only applies to a given group funding a chosen political campaign. It's called purchased power, 'fascism' ...in a nutshell. :)

Yes I do understand mellie...YOU hate Jews, it doesn't matter that you 'claim' to like them.....your refusal to allow Israel the same 'liberties' that America and England enjoy prove your bigotry...

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 4:04pm:

mellie wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 3:58pm: It cant be a fair and democratic process, when this process (power) only applies to a given group funding a chosen political campaign. It's called purchased power, 'fascism' ...in a nutshell. :) Yes I do understand mellie...YOU hate Jews, it doesn't matter that you 'claim' to like them.....your refusal to allow Israel the same 'liberties' that America and England enjoy prove your bigotry...

No, I quite like Jews, have not got a problem with them as individuals what so ever, however I do have a problem with any group, corp, purchasing political advantage by way of making generous donations to political partys.

OK.

And this applies to all religious groups and corps, for I couldn't give a fig who or what they are, thus would like to see political donations stopped all together.  They should have an even playing field, this and be able to sell themselves and their policies to their 'own' nations people, in accordance to merit, not generous political campaign funding donated by a few.

Our nations political donations are some of the least transparent and dishonest in the world.

This needs to change as it interferes with the fair working process of democracy this and makes way for fascism.

We need to start practising what we preach, in the way of 'true' democracy, especially when preaching to less developed nations in pursuit of freedom.

:)  Do as we say, but not as we do?

Why did the Jewish publication sack their Jewish student and sub-editor for telling their readership to vote for whoever they pleased?

Are you suggesting this Jewish university student, (who I happen to admire btw) is a bigot also?


8-)

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 4:10pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 4:04pm: mellie wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 3:58pm: It cant be a fair and democratic process, when this process (power) only applies to a given group funding a chosen political campaign. It's called purchased power, 'fascism' ...in a nutshell. :) Yes I do understand mellie...YOU hate Jews, it doesn't matter that you 'claim' to like them.....your refusal to allow Israel the same 'liberties' that America and England enjoy prove your bigotry... No, I quite like Jews, have not got a problem with them as individuals what so ever, however I do have a problem with any group, corp, purchasing political advantage by way of making generous donations to political partys. OK. And this applies to all religious groups and corps, for I couldn't give a fig who or what they are, thus would like to see political donations stopped all together.  They should have an even playing field, this and be able to sell themselves and their policies to their 'own' nations people, in accordance to merit, not generous political campaign funding donated by a few. Our nations political donations are some of the least transparent and dishonest in the world. This needs to change as it interferes with the fair working process of democracy this and makes way for fascism. We need to start practising what we preach, in the way of 'true' democracy, especially when preaching to less developed nations in pursuit of freedom. :)  Do as we say, but not as we do?

No, I quite like Jews, have not got a problem with them as individuals

NO mellie, you don't...that is quite clear...you might 'like' jewish people...,but you actually HATE 'jews'.....There really IS a difference...

It's sort of like a guy saying 'I like a girl', but I hate 'women'....or (to make a point that you'll understand) I 'like' individual AFL Players, but hate St Kilda players....Much the same thing...

You 'may' like 'individual' jewish people...but YOU hate JEWS, as a class....

Oh dear, Giz is in a tiz... time to boycott ship I think... I'll return when you are over your abusive little tanty, when we can get back to discussing "Australian" immigration policy.

:) Cheers

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 4:21pm:

Oh dear, Giz is in a tiz... time to boycott ship I think... I'll return when you are over your abusive little tanty, when we can get back to discussing "Australian" immigration policy. :) Cheers

Yes, I'm absolutely in 'a tiz'....But then I always get annoyed by people who 'pretend' to like 'people' as individuals but hate the same people as a 'group'....

I react the same way to bigots who say 'I like the black next door' but hate black people.....The idea is this...IF you hate a 'class'.....like YOU do with jewish people..what reason do I have to believe that you like the 'jew' next door???

ALL jewish people (or any other group) are basically the same...You either treat ALL members of that group the same( as individuals, like some or hate some, depending on the PERSONS behaviour) OR you make a 'blanket' statement ( I hate ALL people of that religion/colour/sexual preference, etc)...YOU can't do both...You can EITHER treat everyone as an individual (i.e, everyone is different, so I like 'fred' but not 'steve', based on fred or steve's attitude) OR you can say ALL people of 'Fred' or Steve's religion/race are less than human...

You can't have it both ways...

What I like about Jews, as a race, as a people...

-Clean
-Motivated and educated
-Conservative and respectable family values
-Often intelligent
-A good sense of pride in their appearance when they go out
-They mix well with Anglo-Australians, get on with Christians, our being a predominantly Christian nation.
-Their values are similar to our nations existing values, so they mix well with our people.
-They are a mild mannered well thought through people, never met an ill tempered or abusive one yet...(this could change if you are Jewish yourself however Giz, which I doubt).
-Family orientated, not loafers, they are industrious and continually strive towards personal improvement, are workers.

Must I go on?

:)

I was however very disappointed with how some of their clergy ostracised one of their own Jewish students who went against the Zionist grain and told his publications readership that he sub-edited to vote for whoever they wanted to, not for the party their Zionist elders told them to postal vote for.

Fair enough?

Like he said, it was condescending and rather communist to tell Jews to vote for a given party (Labor) simply because Labor had Israel's best interests at heart, this and had promised them $kick-back$ (which would cost them dearly later on down the track anyway)  post election should Labor get in.

Upon getting in, Labor promised not to review Jewish schools funding arrangements, ...  and knowing how Jews value education, our government knew just how to appeal to them in order to score votes.

Quite manipulative really, lest we forget Gillards lunch she invited a number of influential people to... of which came with a rather hefty door fee.

Would you pay $10,000 for a cup of tea and a croissant?

For me, it's the underlying principle of the thing, I couldn't care less what group, or race, corp etc were purchasing political privy.

:)


Bad points...

They milk  the Holocaust genocide atrocity for all it's worth, this and play the victim card a bit,  but you cant blame them for this, for our nations politicians, (both Liberal and Labor) have encouraged this by awarding them political privy and social advantage in return for their votes, as they have with a number of other minority groups and even non-minority groups here in Australia also...so

Time the sectoral  bribery/political donating stopped!

This or at least was more transparent.

:)

I like them because like me, they are misers, and a tad 'bookish'... this and hate TV.

;D (excuse my stereotyping them, but I actually respect these traits)

Come off it Giz, do you really think favourably of fascism in this country?

Labor don't have Jews best interests at heart, they were political point-scoring and vote-grabbing...this and should want to help all members of the community, and their claimed humanitarian movements (re- Israel)  because they genuinely want to..not because Jews bought tickets at Labors fund-raising luncheon. ::)

And Liberal are known for this too...which is why I think these political donations need to stop...or at the very least, be far more transparent than they are as they find loop holes and hold these 'lunches' and charge a door fee, thus technically we cant call them donations, even if we know fine well they are.

Sneaky!

:)

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:50pm:

Quote: Why the jews alone are not entitled to national self-determination Soren, this is about Australia's immigration policy.

How is  equating Zionism with fascism about Australian immigration policy?

Soren wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 5:34pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 3:50pm: Quote: Why the jews alone are not entitled to national self-determination Soren, this is about Australia's immigration policy. How is  equating Zionism with fascism about Australian immigration policy?

Lol, it went a little off topic a while back...  Immigrants making/purchasing their own policies perhaps?

;)

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:50pm:

Quote: As I said elsewhere, you and millions of others have successfully absorbed and accommodated the Islamist view and So you think I came up with a policy that would exclude from immigration problematic ideologies like Abu's version of Islam because I have been tricked into believing him?

Not for me to fathom how your mind works.

Equating zionism with fascism,. however, is a new trope, cultivated and amplified by islamists and nazis. Your including zionism with islamism and nazism is a sign of being tricked, though, into mindless reflexes characteristic of nazis and islamists.

Delve into it more Soren, religious fascism exists, fascism doesn't only apply to corporations OK.

It applies to any movement, group or body even individual who purchases political advantage off a given political party.

Christians do it too, and Muslims are in on the act (what religious group isn't these days, not bad for a party's PM who claims to be Atheist..lol) ....you know the site Getup?



It's ran by Muslims, and they too made donations to ALP's 2010 campaign.

It has to stop, unless you want the wealthy elitists discarding the remaining 80% of the country.

Think about it... What political party has scored the most money in political donations last year?

Again, it has to stop, if it doesn't, then it's a false democracy!

Australia needs skilled migrants, that fact is undeniable.

What it needs to do is set a preference of skilled workers from culturally suitable nations in the Commonwealth.

My father from the UK and mother from RSA being prime examples of what we need more of. End a sentence in a preposition, go and stand in the corner yes I know.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 5:57pm:

Australia needs skilled migrants, that fact is undeniable. What it needs to do is set a preference of skilled workers from culturally suitable nations in the Commonwealth. My father from the UK and mother from RSA being prime examples of what we need more of. End a sentence in a preposition, go and stand in the corner yes I know.

Yes, but we need to be selective... this current government is intentionally immigrating those who they know are more likely to vote for them.

You know how the UK sent all their convicts to Australia 200 years ago?

Lol, now they are sending us their immigrants, because they now realise they took on too many.

Don't be fooled by the UK figures immigrating to Australia....as many of them are Indian/Pakistani.

We are taking UK's immigrational left overs, and other nations crooks.

We are still a dumping ground according to the Labor government.

 :) The jokes on us!

Actually Mellie have you noticed how many Union leaders in Australia have British accents????

The clearout of the dead wood by Mrs T in the 1980s when she turned the country around, looks like they all cleared out and went to Australia!!!

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 6:06pm:

Actually Mellie have you noticed how many Union leaders in Australia have British accents???? The clearout of the dead wood by Mrs T in the 1980s when she turned the country around, looks like they all cleared out and went to Australia!!!

Australia is a UK diplomats/union leaders (communists) paradise right now....    ;D

Soren wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 5:34pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 3:50pm: Quote: Why the jews alone are not entitled to national self-determination Soren, this is about Australia's immigration policy. How is  equating Zionism with fascism about Australian immigration policy?

I did not equate the two Soren. Mentioning two ideologies in the same sentence is not the same thing as equating them.

Crap.
You obviously do think that they are of a kind.

Soren it really would be simpler for all concerned if you addressed what I actually said rather than what you think I think.

Personally, I cant see the point in immigrating known anti-democratic immigrants, when they are opposed to our nations existing culture, it's politics, it's people, our Australian way of life.

Yes, we need to start thinking about being more selective.

Double digit unemployment in the US due to housing collapse , high unemployment in UK .. those people with many skills and speaking the same language and would like to come here for jobs .. but i bet they would have no chances .. as jobs only available for the third world ..

I added a policy on this for the sustainability party:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/immigration.html

Quote:

PRIME Minister David Cameron has condemned Britain's long-standing policy of multiculturalism as a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism.

Maybe doing away with Britain's long-standing policy of persecuting her Muslim population would work better.

You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home?

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2011 at 9:57pm:

You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home?

More likely that they were being intensely-persecuted in their new home - as has been the case since that fateful day of 'shock and awe' when the bomb-in-the-backpack mob purportedly managed to hijack several planes on US soil and proceeded to use them as missiles...

A peasant driving a Mercedes or wearing a suit will always be a peasant regardless of how he or she is packaged.

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 9:40pm:

Personally, I cant see the point in immigrating known anti-democratic immigrants, when they are opposed to our nations existing culture, it's politics, it's people, our Australian way of life. Yes, we need to start thinking about being more selective.

thinkin' 'bout it????
it's already out of hand.
j.

HC wrote on Feb 21^st, 2011 at 11:33pm:

A peasant driving a Mercedes or wearing a suit will always be a peasant regardless of how he or she is packaged.

yup, see 'em all the time in Burwood, NSW.
j.
they, and their cars are just adding to pollution.
j.

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 6:01pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 5:57pm: Australia needs skilled migrants, that fact is undeniable. What it needs to do is set a preference of skilled workers from culturally suitable nations in the Commonwealth. My father from the UK and mother from RSA being prime examples of what we need more of. End a sentence in a preposition, go and stand in the corner yes I know. Yes, but we need to be selective... this current government is intentionally immigrating those who they know are more likely to vote for them. You know how the UK sent all their convicts to Australia 200 years ago? Lol, now they are sending us their immigrants, because they now realise they took on too many. Don't be fooled by the UK figures immigrating to Australia....as many of them are Indian/Pakistani. We are taking UK's immigrational left overs, and other nations crooks. We are still a dumping ground according to the Labor government.  :) The jokes on us!

you bet it is.
j.

if you travel in most countries in the world .. even in south east Asia .. those face with skill shortaged .. just because the local don't want to do low paid jobs .. all big cities have policies opening doors to people from country sides to migrate to cities to those low paid jobs .. it's  callled skills shortaged ..

Quote:

You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home?

Not quite, but when a section of the community becomes disenfranchised, it breeds frustration and anger. Angry kids are susceptible to people who'd like to take advantage of that.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 21^st, 2011 at 9:46pm:

Quote: PRIME Minister David Cameron has condemned Britain's long-standing policy of multiculturalism as a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism. Maybe doing away with Britain's long-standing policy of persecuting her Muslim population would work better.

Oh, don't be such a silly bint. They are accommodating them more than anywhere in the world, INCLUDING Muslim countries.

"For many Muslims across the world the 1.8 million Muslims in the UK represent a success story unmatched anywhere in the world where Muslim immigration has taken place. With over 1000 mosques, the adoption of halaal food across the nations institutes and high street chains, Muslim MP's and a dozen Islamic schools, for many the Ummah in Britain has achieved more living in dar ul-Kufr than Muslims in the Islamic world. Muslim thinkers in the West such as Tariq Ramadhan and journalist Yasmine Ali Bai Brown have consistently asserted that the freedom to practice Islam afforded to the ummah in Britain is not available anywhere in the world even in the Muslim world."

http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/comment/4089-muslim-life-in-britain

Equitist wrote on Feb 21^st, 2011 at 10:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 9:57pm: You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home? More likely that they were being intensely-persecuted in their new home - as has been the case since that fateful day of 'shock and awe' when the bomb-in-the-backpack mob purportedly managed to hijack several planes on US soil and proceeded to use them as missiles...

You are unsurprisingly daft and muddle-headed. You'd say anything just to maintain that carefully crafted persona...

How exactly are they persecuted in their new homes?

Soren wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2011 at 10:05am:

Equitist wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:11pm: freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 9:57pm: You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home? More likely that they were being intensely-persecuted in their new home - as has been the case since that fateful day of 'shock and awe' when the bomb-in-the-backpack mob purportedly managed to hijack several planes on US soil and proceeded to use them as missiles... You are unsurprisingly daft and muddle-headed. You'd say anything just to maintain that carefully crafted persona... How exactly are they persecuted in their new homes?

Firstly - and notwithstanding your contradictory accusations that I am "muddle-headed" - I cannot reveal my true identity, for then I'd have to kill you all!   :-X

Secondly, I suggest that you try to be more consistent in your interpretation of the metaphorical use of the word "home"!   ::)

Silly bint? Is that a step up or down from useful idiot?

That success story you pasted highlights the hard work of the Muslim themselves. It doesn't mention the internment of Iraqi citizens in Britain during the first Gulf War or the mass opposition toward government funding of Islamic schools.


Quote:

From April to July 2001, Oldham, Burnley and Bradford experienced clashes between second- and third-generation Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrant youth and police, provoked by racist gang attacks on their neighbourhoods and the failure of the police to protect their communities (Kundnani, 2001). Indeed, the initial police response to the first violent rampage of white racist youths in Oldham had been to arrive in riot gear, arrest the attacked Asians, and turn on the gathering crowds of the angered community (Evans, 2005; Kundnani, 2001: 109). Similar events took place in Burnley, then Bradford, where some 200 police were injured over three days of disturbances

http://jos.sagepub.com.ezproxy.library.uq.edu.au/content/43/1/61.full.pdf+html

Oh yeah. That's great.

Mate  :( :( :( :( :( 8-) 8-) 8-)

the alps immigration policy .................

"keep them out and let them in."

leftwaddedness

imperiums immigration policy 8-)

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2011 at 10:21am:

http://jos.sagepub.com.ezproxy.library.uq.edu.au/content/43/1/61.full.pdf+html

Step up, it seems... Or is it down??
Anyway - Scott Poynting? Couldn't you find any Chomsky or Pilger?

Equitist wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2011 at 10:11am:

Soren wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:05am: Equitist wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:11pm: freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 9:57pm: You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home? More likely that they were being intensely-persecuted in their new home - as has been the case since that fateful day of 'shock and awe' when the bomb-in-the-backpack mob purportedly managed to hijack several planes on US soil and proceeded to use them as missiles... You are unsurprisingly daft and muddle-headed. You'd say anything just to maintain that carefully crafted persona... How exactly are they persecuted in their new homes? Firstly - and notwithstanding your contradictory accusations that I am "muddle-headed" - I cannot reveal my true identity, for then I'd have to kill you all!   :-X Secondly, I suggest that you try to be more consistent in your interpretation of the metaphorical use of the word "home"!   ::)

Hey, Ditzy, bombs in backpacks in connection with buses = UK or Israel or anywhere in the Middle East + 'US soil' - that's a whole load of allusions to different countries by your yingy-yangy spinning self.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXgnItLLgwA

JC Denton wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2011 at 11:02am:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXgnItLLgwA

I dont usually bother to look at youtube videos IMP, but that must be one of the most politically incorrect vids I've watched.
I must say I'm ashamed of myself for pissing myself laughing throughout it. :-?

LoL..Meekathara.Meekathara.Meekathara.Meekathara.Meekathara

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 21^st, 2011 at 9:46pm:

Quote: PRIME Minister David Cameron has condemned Britain's long-standing policy of multiculturalism as a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism. Maybe doing away with Britain's long-standing policy of persecuting her Muslim population would work better.

Mole Special: A Stranger in My Own Land

As a woman, it was difficult for me to gain many first-hand impressions of the Muslims. I was generally ignored by both men and women, and on the rare occasion that I had to interact, when for example a car was parked illegally and blocking my gate, I was addressed as if inconsequential. My husband, however, faithfully reported conversations which you may find somewhat alarming. One of our favourite dinner-party pieces is this: opposite our vicarage there is a "library" which has some computers, some burkas and occasionally tracts that say offensive things about Jews and Christians. My husband did his photo-copying there, and got on rather well with everybody. One day he was chatting to a man with a passing resemblance to Lawrence of Arabia, who had just arrived from Antwerp — one of an increasing number of Muslims who are arriving here with EU passports. He asked him why he had come to Birmingham. He was surprised at the question: "Everybody know. Birmingham — best place in Europe to be pure Muslim." Well, there must be many places in Europe where Muslims are entirely free to practise their faith, but I suspect there are few places in which they can have so little contact with the civic and legal structure of a Western state if they choose. It seems to be particularly easy to "disappear" if that is their intention. A parishioner once described a lorry pulling up outside his house, the side opening to reveal stacked mattresses full of sleepy, and presumably illegal, immigrants, who staggered out into broad Brummie daylight. We heard tales of how houses are exchanged for cash payments in our area. An untaxed car was once clamped by a frightened-looking official at 8am, but within hours the owner of the vehicle had organised the clamps to be sawn off, and he sped away.

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/the-mole-janfeb-11-a-stranger-in-my-own-land-anonymous-inner-city-birmingham-muslim-gangs

I just happened across this poll on the Lib-allied Menzies House web-site - and (even allowing for the curious wording of the question) the results might surprise everyone on here...

http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/

---

That 36% is significant and it is about Muslims - not Buddhists, Catholics, Taoist - not even the Chinese, whatever ideology or religion they may have.
All the talk across the world about the failure of multiculturalism is about the failure of absorbing Muslims.

Equitist wrote on Feb 21^st, 2011 at 10:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 9:57pm: You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home? More likely that they were being intensely-persecuted in their new home - as has been the case since that fateful day of 'shock and awe' when the bomb-in-the-backpack mob purportedly managed to hijack several planes on US soil and proceeded to use them as missiles...

They blew up the busses to make a political point - because they disagreed with the government's foreign policy. They were not victims, and it is absurdly naive to assume they must be victims in order to do something so evil.


Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2011 at 9:43am:

Quote: You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home? Not quite, but when a section of the community becomes disenfranchised, it breeds frustration and anger. Angry kids are susceptible to people who'd like to take advantage of that.

And blowing up busses? I know plenty of disenfranchised, frustrated, angry Aussies. I don't see them committing mass murder. Are you suggesting that busses blowing up is inevitable if local Muslims don't get what they want?

hi,
more fuel.
as you know, i live in Burwood NSW.
as though there are not enough ppl here now, 3 huge apartment towers are being
built above the council chambers.
prolly house another 1000+.
and make an already congested suburb even more so.
this is greed, pure and simple.
funny thing is, that under the council chambers the ground floor is empty, with "for lease" signs everywhere.
and it's been like that from day one.
hmmmm.
j.

freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2011 at 10:13pm:

Equitist wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:11pm: freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 9:57pm: You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home? More likely that they were being intensely-persecuted in their new home - as has been the case since that fateful day of 'shock and awe' when the bomb-in-the-backpack mob purportedly managed to hijack several planes on US soil and proceeded to use them as missiles... They blew up the busses to make a political point - because they disagreed with the government's foreign policy. They were not victims, and it is absurdly naive to assume they must be victims in order to do something so evil. Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 9:43am: Quote: You think they blew up busses because they were persecuted at home? Not quite, but when a section of the community becomes disenfranchised, it breeds frustration and anger. Angry kids are susceptible to people who'd like to take advantage of that. And blowing up busses? I know plenty of disenfranchised, frustrated, angry Aussies. I don't see them committing mass murder. Are you suggesting that busses blowing up is inevitable if local Muslims don't get what they want?

Maybe they are intensely persecuted because they blow up buses when they don't get their way.

I could see very little in regard to immigrants opposing democracy and freedom.  I suppose the whole point of living in a democratic country is that immigrants have the freedom to oppose our democracy and freedom.

- Mantra

Why would anyone against democracy and freedom seek to migrate to Oz? Seems strange.

It's only the islamics (muslims) who oppose our free western athiest capitalistic democracy.

Free democracy is incompatable with islam (muslims)

athiest capitalistic democracies are the most advanced countried in the world.
islam contains the most retarded nations.

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2009 at 10:50pm:

I sent an email to the immigration minister a while back asking whether we had a policy on immmigration of people with ideologies that oppose democracy and freedom, like Islamism, Nazism and Zionism. I still haven't recieved a response. Does anyone know what our policy is?

http://www.australiaforum.com/information/immigration/new-oz-pm-declares-policy-direction-on-immigration.html

That may help a tad ..

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 28^th, 2011 at 9:24am:

I could see very little in regard to immigrants opposing democracy and freedom.  I suppose the whole point of living in a democratic country is that immigrants have the freedom to oppose our democracy and freedom. - Mantra Why would anyone against democracy and freedom seek to migrate to Oz? Seems strange.

Money

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2009 at 10:50pm:

I sent an email to the immigration minister a while back asking whether we had a policy on immmigration of people with ideologies that oppose democracy and freedom, like Islamism, Nazism and Zionism. I still haven't recieved a response. Does anyone know what our policy is?

Thiis thread is a good example of the lies that the sustainability party stand for.

Islam does not prohibit voting.

Great big liars advocating political parties is a real turn off.

falah wrote on May 31^st, 2012 at 2:40pm:

Islam does not prohibit voting.

;D

Nice try Falah. So tell us, does it prohibit voting by non-Muslims?

Because of the one child policy in China and the fact that males outnumber females nearly 10/1 now. A lot of Chinese males are getting here via Student Visas and hooking up with Aussie females (who outnumber males here by 3/1) just to continue their bloodline. Hence why you can go to Sydney and see a lot of mixed relationships of Asian males with Aussie girls.
"Just don't know where the Aussie boys are?" said one girl on a SBS flick holding hands with a Student from China. Well, they most likely smoking pot and drinking beer with their Yob mates.

10/1?
3/1?
White girls hooking up with chinese men in anything approaching significant numbers?

I LOL @ U

K Rudd's new grandchild:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/img/2012/national/0106_rudd_a.jpg

falah wrote on May 31^st, 2012 at 2:40pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2009 at 10:50pm: I sent an email to the immigration minister a while back asking whether we had a policy on immmigration of people with ideologies that oppose democracy and freedom, like Islamism, Nazism and Zionism. I still haven't recieved a response. Does anyone know what our policy is? Thiis thread is a good example of the lies that the sustainability party stand for. Islam does not prohibit voting. Great big liars advocating political parties is a real turn off.

Watch Falah dodge some simple questions about Islam and democracy:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226714182/88#88