Australia to buy 11 advanced warships from Japan   :-?


News.com.au
August 5, 2025

Australia will upgrade its navy with 11 Mogami-class frigates built by Japan's Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Defence Minister Richard Marles said on Tuesday.

Billed as one of Japan's biggest defence export deals since World War II, Australia will pay US$6 billion (Aus$10 billion) over the next 10 years to acquire the fleet of stealth frigates.

Australia is in the midst of a major military restructure, bolstering its navy with long-range firepower in an effort to deter China.

It is striving to expand its fleet of major warships from 11 to 26 over the next decade.

"This is clearly the biggest defence-industry agreement that has ever been struck between Japan and Australia," Marles said, touting the deal.

"This decision was made based on what was the best capability for Australia," he added.

"We do have a very close strategic alignment with Japan."

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries was awarded the tender over Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems.

Mogami-class warships are advanced stealth frigates equipped with a potent array of weapons.


Marles said they would replace Australia's ageing fleet of Anzac-class vessels, with the first Mogami-class ship to be on the water by 2030.

"The Mogami-class frigate is the best frigate for Australia," said Marles.

"It is a next-generation vessel. It is stealthy. It has 32 vertical launch cells capable of launching long-range missiles."

The deal further cements a burgeoning security partnership between Australia and Japan.

Japan is deepening cooperation with US allies in the Asia-Pacific region that, like Tokyo, are involved in territorial disputes with China.

Both Japan and Australia are members of the "Quad" group alongside India and the United States.

Japanese government spokesman Yoshimasa Hayashi said Tuesday the deal was "proof of trust in our nation's high-level technology and the importance of interoperability between Japan's self defence forces and the Australian military."

It was also a "big step toward elevating the national security cooperation with Australia, which is our special strategic partner", Hayashi told reporters in Tokyo.

- 'More lethal' -

Japan's pacifist constitution restricts it from exporting weapons -- but Tokyo has in recent years loosened arms export controls to boost sales abroad.

"This is Japan's largest defence export deal since 1945 with a non-US partner," said Yee Kuang Heng from the University of Tokyo's Security Studies Unit.

"And only the second since Tokyo loosened its guidelines on defence exports in 2014, which led to exports of air surveillance radar to the Philippines."

Heng said the deal was a "massive shot in the arm" for Japan as it sought to strengthen its defence manufacturing industry.

Australian defence industry minister Pat Conroy said the Mogami-class frigates were capable of launching long-range Tomahawk cruise missiles.

"The acquisition of these stealth frigates will make our navy a bigger navy, and a more lethal navy," he said.

The first three Mogami-class frigates will be built overseas, Conroy said, with shipbuilding yards in Western Australia expected to produce the rest.

Australia announced a deal to acquire US-designed nuclear-powered submarines in 2021, scrapping a years-long plan to develop non-nuclear subs from France.   :(

Under the tripartite AUKUS pact with the United States and the United Kingdom, the Australian navy plans to acquire at least three Virginia-class submarines within 15 years.

The AUKUS submarine programme alone could cost the country up to US$235 billion over the next 30 years, according to Australian government forecasts, a price tag that has stoked criticism.

Major defence projects in Australia have long suffered from cost overruns, government U-turns, policy changes and project plans that make more sense for local job creation than defence.

Australia plans to gradually increase its defence spending to 2.4 percent of gross domestic product -- above the 2 percent target set by its NATO allies, but well short of US demands for 3.5 percent.

Where's the money coming from?.   :(

Notice that there is no talk at all of the parties involved in the arms race in SEA
getting around a table to try and reduce it?
We could save money and so could China, the USA, Japan, the Philippines,
India, and many other countries -
with simple arms reduction treaties with proper verification.

We now have China with the largest navy in the world
and heading towards 1,000 nuclear weapons and
wanting 3,000 to equal both Russia and the USA.
It's got way out of control and not one politician in the world
has even mentioned an arms reduction treaty.

We have the most useless set of politicians that the world has ever seen.
No one is standing up and proposing a solution.
Every side including Australia is ordering more and more weapons
to add to the arms race.

Well said Bobby and how right you are.  Where do we draw the line?.  With so many other things needing to be done.  Australia is in a housing crisis, people are sleeping under bridges and in their cars.  Far too few social housing homes have been built.  This is not just labor but also the coalition that should answer for this.  It is not good enough.   :(   

whiteknight wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 10:04am:

Well said Bobby and how right you are.  Where do we draw the line?.  With so many other things needing to be done.  Australia is in a housing crisis, people are sleeping under bridges and in their cars.  Far too few social housing homes have been built.  This is not just labor but also the coalition that should answer for this.  It is not good enough.   :(

Yes - we are just pumping more borrowed money into an arms race that we cannot win.

We don't have the money - we are already in $1 trillion of debt
and any money used will be printed by the RBA and cause more inflation -
that will hurt everyone with prices for food and everything else that we can't afford.

Steak is up to $75 per kilo at Coles and Woolies - when will people wake up?

https://www.coles.com.au/product/coles-finest-carbon-neutral-beef-eye-fillet-steak-330g-6827990

Bobby. wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 9:48am:

Notice that there is no talk at all of the parties involved in the arms race in SEA getting around a table to try and reduce it? We could save money and so could China, the USA, Japan, the Philippines, India, and many other countries - with simple arms reduction treaties with proper verification. We now have China with the largest navy in the world and heading towards 1,000 nuclear weapons and wanting 3,000 to equal both Russia and the USA. It's got way out of control and not one politician in the world has even mentioned an arms reduction treaty. We have the most useless set of politicians that the world has ever seen. No one is standing up and proposing a solution. Every side including Australia is ordering more and more weapons to add to the arms race.

Why is China doing this?

Frank wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 10:15am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 6th, 2025 at 9:48am: Notice that there is no talk at all of the parties involved in the arms race in SEA getting around a table to try and reduce it? We could save money and so could China, the USA, Japan, the Philippines, India, and many other countries - with simple arms reduction treaties with proper verification. We now have China with the largest navy in the world and heading towards 1,000 nuclear weapons and wanting 3,000 to equal both Russia and the USA. It's got way out of control and not one politician in the world has even mentioned an arms reduction treaty. We have the most useless set of politicians that the world has ever seen. No one is standing up and proposing a solution. Every side including Australia is ordering more and more weapons to add to the arms race. Why is China doing this?

I assume they feel threatened by the USA and
they want to invade Taiwan and get away with it.

Everything will be ok once they build the new football stadium in Tasmania and all the stadium for the Olympic Games in Brisbane.


Our navy does actually need these ships and unlike the submarine fleet we will actually receive them.
The current ships they are replacing are due to retire.

I’m not suggesting we don’t have higher priority’s in Australia but we do require a Navy of at least minimum numbers, which is all we will have.

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 10:17am:

Everything will be ok once they build the new football stadium in Tasmania and all the stadium for the Olympic Games in Brisbane. Our navy does actually need these ships and unlike the submarine fleet we will actually receive them. The current ships they are replacing are due to retire. I’m not suggesting we don’t have higher priority’s in Australia but we do require a Navy of at least minimum numbers, which is all we will have.

It's an arms race that we cannot win -

our economy is too small.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxl-1VcGYI

Ibelieve it’s simple replacement purchase for ships we already have that near retirement.
Our fleet is in need of upgrading desperately.

I’m actually impressed with Labor decision on this.
It appears quality.
I will wait and see how many ministers retire and take up positions with Mitsubishi but  for now I support it.

We need a Navy more than football stadiums and games.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries eh?

Maybe it's a lost in translation thing ...

They thought it was for "frigerates" not frigates?  ;)

Captain Nemo wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 11:16am:

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries eh? Maybe it's a lost in translation thing ... They thought it was for "frigerates" not frigates?  ;)

:D :D

Bobby. wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 10:19am:

our economy is too small.

14th largest economy in the world with a GDP of $1.7trillion , slightly below russia with a gdp of $2 trillion

I don’t believe it’s an arm race.
I actually give Labor credit for avoiding that.
We are an island nation and we have unfortunately had many mistakes made with purchasing decisions for our Navy.

The USA submarine deal is a disaster. Better to just write those billions off.

This decision/deal has the potential to revolutionise our Naval fleet with modern technology and quality control of the build.

We will have a small but highly effective fleet which I believe is perfect for Australian  naval interests in the near future.

Credit to the current defence minister.

Now all they need to do is find the sailors...

whiteknight wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 10:04am:

Well said Bobby and how right you are.  Where do we draw the line?.  With so many other things needing to be done.  Australia is in a housing crisis, people are sleeping under bridges and in their cars.  Far too few social housing homes have been built.  This is not just labor but also the coalition that should answer for this.  It is not good enough.   :(

https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/56adc759-3792-4dfa-a571-d3af62f8b4ce

John Smith wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 12:36pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 6th, 2025 at 10:19am: our economy is too small. 14th largest economy in the world with a GDP of $1.7trillion , slightly below russia with a gdp of $2 trillion

.. but Russia's flows to the arms races and fights - ours flows to the fat cats to wallow in ... and what good is a NATIONAL GDP when 90% of it is Offshored and Tax Havened?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 1:01pm:

Now all they need to do is find the sailors...

These ships require half the crew compared to our older ships.

Also I read somewhere that ADF recruitment has started to increase due to better communication on social media.

I think it’s reasonable to suggest I can on occasions be mildly critical of our politicians and government 🤣

But also if I believe they are thankfully starting to get things right I will be proud to say that they are finally doing their jobs adequately.

I suggest this is more a case of politicians actually listening to the Navy and what they need and want rather then the billion dollar disaster Scomo and the submarines we pay for but will never receive political games he played.

Isn’t Scomo now working with a company linked to the shite submarine deal?

And how you travelling old fella 😀

It’s all good up here in Queensland.

But it be much better if they got rid off the Queenslanders!

Bit like New Zealand, a country of immense beauty I would move to but it’s full of New Zealanders.

Such a shame

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A4nUa_qp09g


Richard Miles as defensive Minister seems to be doing something right!

His not only playing with billions of dollars but also the protection of our country.

I’m impressed he might be actually doing his job!

You rarely get that in labor or lnp ministers.

Well about time we bought from Nihon. We should have got the Subs from them in the first place for want of getting off our lazy arses ourselves and build our own.
Obviously the ADF didn't agree with Turnbull's INNOVATION push to make Australia great again.
Germany is busy in a backlog of orders for Ukraine and NATO, so Nihon is the better bet.

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 2:51pm:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A4nUa_qp09g Richard Miles as defensive Minister seems to be doing something right! His not only playing with billions of dollars but also the protection of our country. I’m impressed he might be actually doing his job! You rarely get that in labor or lnp ministers.

Nonsense.

the Soviet Union was brought down
by trying to compete with the USA in the military arms race -
how we are doing the same trying to out compete China
when our GDP is much smaller.

Oh come on .

This is nothing to do with a arms race but just standard equipment replacement that I believe has  been done  well (compared to Scomo sub failure, but he scored a well paying job out it)

I would prefer for them to be locally made but we no longer have the skills or resources needed in this country.

Apparently our coffee is nearly world class 🥲


Priority

P.s it’s only a matter of time before everyone involved in the deal amazing gets jobs with the company they approve the deal with.

Such is life in convict Australia

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 4:48pm:

Oh come on . This is nothing to do with a arms race but just standard equipment replacement that I believe has  been done  well (compared to Scomo sub failure, but he scored a well paying job out it) I would prefer for them to be locally made but we no longer have the skills or resources needed in this country. Apparently our coffee is nearly world class 🥲 Priority P.s it’s only a matter of time before everyone involved in the deal amazing gets jobs with the company they approve the deal with. Such is life in convict Australia

And all paid for by printing money from the RBA to pay for Govt bonds.   ::)

If Turnbull didn't turn back on Abbott's push for Nihonese subs.
We could have had em all by now, let alone having the trained know how to build our own.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 5:44pm:

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 6th, 2025 at 4:48pm: Oh come on . This is nothing to do with a arms race but just standard equipment replacement that I believe has  been done  well (compared to Scomo sub failure, but he scored a well paying job out it) I would prefer for them to be locally made but we no longer have the skills or resources needed in this country. Apparently our coffee is nearly world class 🥲 Priority P.s it’s only a matter of time before everyone involved in the deal amazing gets jobs with the company they approve the deal with. Such is life in convict Australia And all paid for by printing money from the RBA to pay for Govt bonds.   ::)

And where exactly do you think the new Tasmania football stadium and the billions being spent on the Brisbane Olympic Games infrastructure is going to be paid for?

Our Navy not only deserves this but desperately needs it.

I remain convinced the Albo government has actually listened to the Navy and signed off on the very best possible solution to replace our aging fleet.

Until proven wrong of course 🤣

We are never going to see Scomo subs no matter how many billions we pay.

Plus they are an offensive weapon only.

A modern and innovative new technology warship is exactly what Australia needs.
We can both defend our borders and if needed  to ( hopefully not) project a powerful force in support of allies overseas.

This ship seems very versatile for numerous roles we require now and into the future.

I’m very rarely in support of our shite politicians and even rare if they are labor but this too my thinking is finally a smart decision for the ADF.

I  don’t believe we are in a “arms race “ this is just standard procurement and finally i think the politicians listen to navy and unbelievable  they got it right!

I’m buying a lottery ticket asap.

Scomo played politics and sunk our defence budget by billions.

I believe this is good money spent.

Aside it enhances our alliance with Japan
And much more importantly it gives our Navy much needed new ships, hopefully of the highest quality and technology.

Our sailors deserve nothing less!

Poll added

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 8:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 6th, 2025 at 5:44pm: Daves2017 wrote on Aug 6th, 2025 at 4:48pm: Oh come on . This is nothing to do with a arms race but just standard equipment replacement that I believe has  been done  well (compared to Scomo sub failure, but he scored a well paying job out it) I would prefer for them to be locally made but we no longer have the skills or resources needed in this country. Apparently our coffee is nearly world class 🥲 Priority P.s it’s only a matter of time before everyone involved in the deal amazing gets jobs with the company they approve the deal with. Such is life in convict Australia And all paid for by printing money from the RBA to pay for Govt bonds.   ::) And where exactly do you think the new Tasmania football stadium and the billions being spent on the Brisbane Olympic Games infrastructure is going to be paid for? Our Navy not only deserves this but desperately needs it. I remain convinced the Albo government has actually listened to the Navy and signed off on the very best possible solution to replace our aging fleet. Until proven wrong of course 🤣 We are never going to see Scomo subs no matter how many billions we pay. Plus they are an offensive weapon only. A modern and innovative new technology warship is exactly what Australia needs. We can both defend our borders and if needed  to ( hopefully not) project a powerful force in support of allies overseas. This ship seems very versatile for numerous roles we require now and into the future. I’m very rarely in support of our shite politicians and even rare if they are labor but this too my thinking is finally a smart decision for the ADF. I  don’t believe we are in a “arms race “ this is just standard procurement and finally i think the politicians listen to navy and unbelievable  they got it right! I’m buying a lottery ticket asap. Scomo played politics and sunk our defence budget by billions. I believe this is good money spent. Aside it enhances our alliance with Japan And much more importantly it gives our Navy much needed new ships, hopefully of the highest quality and technology. Our sailors deserve nothing less!

Hold it, bruvvas!  The Brisbane Olympic Games site has been declared a sacred site after countless decades and centuries of lying fallow and totally unrecognised as such ......  the bruvvas and sistahs just came up with a song-line for the pizzle-headed bumble bee or something.... so now you can just sit back and let the 'courts' rob you all again to suit some absurd BS...

Anyone for splitting Queensland up into a dozen or so states including a Homeland for all recalcitrant Abos and the like?  Let the Rump Hole of Brisdrain bear the full cost of their self-created nonsense.

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2025 at 2:43pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Aug 6th, 2025 at 1:01pm: Now all they need to do is find the sailors... These ships require half the crew compared to our older ships. Also I read somewhere that ADF recruitment has started to increase due to better communication on social media. I think it’s reasonable to suggest I can on occasions be mildly critical of our politicians and government 🤣 But also if I believe they are thankfully starting to get things right I will be proud to say that they are finally doing their jobs adequately. I suggest this is more a case of politicians actually listening to the Navy and what they need and want rather then the billion dollar disaster Scomo and the submarines we pay for but will never receive political games he played. Isn’t Scomo now working with a company linked to the shite submarine deal?

You have made some good points, however there is much you have missed. The Mogami class are an excellent choice, however the small ships company of only 90 is not enough to cover all the operational requirements in a ship this size. I would like to see the designers reasoning behind this.
The AUKUS deal is a win for Australia. We need SSNs for strategic and tactical reasons and until we can develop the technical base to produce our own we need the US and UK, no matter what issues they have themselves at the moment.  We also need SSKs to fill an immediate need and to compliment the SSNs once they become available.

All in all. It's been a complete farce all along.

One of the advantages in buying from one source is commonality across different classes of ship with respect to layout, maintenance, operating procedures and in capability and importantly, configuration  When our ships and submarines were mainly British, you could get crash posted from one capability to another and familiarise yourself quickly with that new posting.     As we started to diversify in classes of ship, and from different countries, we introduced different systems for different ships - for example, when we received the American DDGs in the 60s, they came with their own American Maintenance system, which was different to the RN one.       As we now start getting hulls from different countries, we introduce a danger that crewing these may become an issue, sailors may become “type cast” to a platform and that time to familiarise quickly to a new capability may become longer.     We had this with FFGs, where gas turbines were introduced to provide the propulsion power.   A sailor from a different capability would take months to be trained to competently operate the system.  This lead to massive problems with posting sailors between platforms and also impacted sea/shore rosters.

It is too late now, but rather than a mixture of Spanish, British, Japanese and other countries designs, we would have been better off staying with one country and modifying design to our needs

Another issue design commonality across the class.    In the case of the Armidale Class Patrol Boats, there were 14 boats in class - but 4 different hull designs!    This led to huge problems when these boats needed to be docked because docking cradles had to be modified for a particular boat - sometimes taking days to achieve.

As the time taken between builds of each ships can be years, it is natural that equipment, design and build will vary between ships.    It is vital that this is captured properly and compared against the baseline to ensure we do not have a mixiblob of class

Great insight and I appreciate it.

Aye. Good post VIC.
Sounds like it isn't efficient with all this multi-cultural complexity.
Why we could build a submersible at Pyrmont in Sydney to go to a max of 14kms deep for Cameron's 11km voyage into the Marianna Trench...
...but not build our own Subs/Ship Naval needs is beyond belief ❓

Jasin wrote on Aug 7^th, 2025 at 3:09pm:

Aye. Good post VIC. Sounds like it isn't efficient with all this multi-cultural complexity. Why we could build a submersible at Pyrmont in Sydney to go to a max of 14kms deep for Cameron's 11km voyage into the Marianna Trench... ...but not build our own Subs/Ship Naval needs is beyond belief ❓

You may recall in the early 2000s, the Minister at the time introduced the DMO - the Defence Materiel Organisation.   The idea was that the Defence Force (Uniform) would raise, train and sustain a body of personnel who would go to the sharp end and fight the good fight.   The equipment they needed would be acquired, maintained and disposed of by the DMO.  Unfortunately, the DMO became an upside down pyramid of public servants, many of whom had no idea about Defence.    So, the government produces a white paper and shows it to the Defence Chiefs with the question: What does your service need to address the concerns of the white paper?     So, the Defence Chiefs make their wish list and that is handed to the DMO with a budget - and the top.heavy and bloated DMO look for options to buy.   Defence (uniformed) is then handed a capability that sort off matches what they want - but is it the best for the task and represents value for money, or is it an interpretation of what the DMO think the Defence Uniformed mob need?    Has the capability been costed right from procurement to disposal - including all running costs?    Sadly, in most cases it hasn't and shortcuts are made, procurement is delayed and things run way over budget.

The DMO has been disbanded and the decisions and budget have been given back to the Defence Chiefs to decide what they need.    Inevitably, this has problems as many are out of touch with life in a blue, green or grey suit - which is the people at the sharp end who actually have to USE the capability.

From a Navy perspective, a combination of the above two scenarios has led to a number of issues in budget over runs, late delivery, "fitted for but not with" thinking and just out and out incompetence.

One of the things that needs to be looked at is the role of the defence force in a modern Australia.   Aside from actual combat, is the Defence Force also required to undertake humanitarian and disaster work?   What else do they need to do?.     The primary role of our defence force is to protect Australia - and it should be funded for that and have equipment related to that alone.     All other tasks should be separated from that primary function and allocated and funded by another body (think a proper coastguard, a proper humanitarian and disaster relief body) not using a billion dollar fighting asset geared to the teeth with all the armament required to go to war

We have lost the plot in many ways and terrible leadership at the top of defence and government has played the path for a dissatisfied and below par fighting force

I worked in a DMO as a Navy Lieutenant.     My job was looking after a certain class of ship.      One of these had a small elevator system that transported food from the freezers up two or three decks to the galley.   The lift had malfunctioned and the Ship was using its crew to hand pass heavy and awkward items up the stair wells to the Galley.    Now, if we had control of our own destiny, the job would be looked at by Ship's Staff and a repair plan sorted out.     But, as we were using Contractors to perform all maintenance on these Ships, the scope of work and repair plan had to be designed, costed and approved.    I had a budget of just under 1/2 mil to do ALL the maintenance on these platforms.    So, I went to our maintenance contractor and asked for all the guff I needed.   From memory:

1 page engineering assessment to determine what was wrong (we knew what was wrong, but it had to come from them:    Cost:  80K

Design review, plans and initial scope of work.    Cost:  150K

Advanced Design work - including draft drawings, costings, design plan.  Cost:  200K

Actual Repair using Defence Spares or outsourced parts, plus Labour and amending drawings. $400K

It never got done.     Even if I had of spread the cost over years, the platform would have paid off before it was done.      This is what makes outsourcing such a disaster and makes Contractors millions

Great post again VIC.
One point though. Military should not be conducting conventional Rescue actions. This should be done by orthodox rescue entities like the Medical and associated industries.
Alas for Australia, it is not currently culturally compliant to empower such rescue entities like SES, Fire, Marine Rescue, etc beyond just pissy volunteer levels.
In essence, it will be the Lefty region of Oceania that will create anything close to a professionalism of something like an International Rescue (like Thunderbirds, etc).
No offence, but Military and Medical are very different mindframes and performance/result aspects.

I sympathize with the ADF (a Right industry) in that it has been compromised by Leftism politics here for many decades. My sibling was in the Navy. I'm not pointing to women in the forces. No, that's as beneficial as more males in the Medical. I'm pointing to the ADF having become labelled by the international community as the Lefty Boutique Force.

Yes. My sibling told me the same budget stories. Bandaids and outsourced contractors who charge a motza from anything tax-payer/govt. Not just for the ADF, but everything from charging triple if it's via NDIS to government works. I saw all of this in construction too. He told me ships were mostly in dock the majority of the year for maintenance, repairs, etc.
The ADF after Kim Beazley had become no longer self sufficient and  no longer efficient.

Vic wrote on Aug 7^th, 2025 at 6:57pm:

One of the things that needs to be looked at is the role of the defence force in a modern Australia.   Aside from actual combat, is the Defence Force also required to undertake humanitarian and disaster work?   What else do they need to do?.     The primary role of our defence force is to protect Australia - and it should be funded for that and have equipment related to that alone.     All other tasks should be separated from that primary function and allocated and funded by another body (think a proper coastguard, a proper humanitarian and disaster relief body) not using a billion dollar fighting asset geared to the teeth with all the armament required to go to war We have lost the plot in many ways and terrible leadership at the top of defence and government has played the path for a dissatisfied and below par fighting force

Excellent summation. The LHD saga shows that 'International Rescue' mindset at its finest.  We should be first and foremost a military force whose job is, to quote something I read some years ago, 'to hurt people and break their stuff', not to fight fires, floods or staff nursing homes. A federal version of the SES and a dedicated Coastguard are needed. The only problem I can see is a blowout in the bureaucracy that would come with the formation  of such services, but this can be managed with the correct people in charge. 

There is a problem there.  We don't have sufficient budget to do both things. Australia has limited budgetary means, it can afford to spend money on expensive ships or expensive rescue organisations.  Then, what do we do when we are really faced with a disaster such as Cyclone Tracey in Darwin?  Gough wisely dispatched MELBOURNE and other ships because the scale of the disaster overwhelmed the limited relief organisation that was available.  We sent civilian planes to evacuate the population holding for many years the record for the number of people crammed on a 747 from Singapore.  We simply did not have the resources otherwise. 

Yes, the primary role of the ADF is the defence of Australia, 'to hurt people and break their stuff' as Belgarion put it but they have a secondary role as a source of trained, disciplined manpower that can accomplish most of the tasks assigned to them.  No, that doesn't mean they have to spend time on training for that task but does mean they need to be available to provide, "Aid to the civil power" when required to. 

I have fought bush fires when I was in the Army.  It was simply another duty which has to be performed.  The Navy has had to evacuate people trapped by bush fires, the air force to drop supplies, no one else is equipped for such duties and available to perform them.  Look at the cries whenever there is a need to build new ships or submarines, imagine what will be screamed about if we need new fire engines for the bush fire brigade.  Bobby will be screaming over spilt milk, JaSin will be claiming we can build better ones in Australia if we need to purchase something overseas.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

I agree with Vic .
We need an ADF that is 100% committed to the task of defending Australia against threats.

It’s not their responsibility to take the role of disaster cleanup personnel.

There is ample money in the federal budget to fund ( and should fund) an  enhanced SES and Coast Guard.

The government just prefers to use the funds to build football stadiums and waste billions on Olympic venues and Commonwealth games.

The ADF has only one job, as it name confirms. Defend Australia.

This  whole concept of a defence force that acts as a secondary defacto  Local emergency service is just ridiculous.!

Vic wrote on Aug 7^th, 2025 at 7:10pm:

This is what makes outsourcing such a disaster and makes Contractors millions

A lifetime ago in a land far  far away I had a similar experience to what you described.

We were being “ updated “ with new equipment.
A day worth of research and I discovered very early this new equipment was basically crap. But basically given away for free because you have to buy only their supplies to operate them, on the  rare occasion they weren’t  out of service.
I also discovered that the cost to maintain and operate with the  necessary  products was over 12 times other companies costs.

I made this claim clearly in writing.

Two years later  I attended a meeting to discuss how why this equipment is failing in operational duties and why it is costing x20 times more than the previous budget.

I handed them a copy of the letter I had written and sat down with a grin on my face.

That was quickly wiped off ( the grin) but it was a great moment I will never forget 😂

Hi, Vic.  I've known sailors of recent vintage and a lot of the low retention is due to the reality that they are required to be offshore for extended periods of time.. not all, of course, but ship's crew are.

Service people are not like they used to be - serving first and foremost... these days they expect their 'work from home' or rough equivalent .... and they do not want to spend long times away from their families any more.

On top of that, recent examples of pillorying of Veterans has created a serious issue with retention and interest... the current rise in interest is probably because those things are starting to fade.

Add to that 'dei' - Division, Exclusion, and Incapacity .... and you are finding people given 'inside running' - as has occurred for far too long now - who are only there for purposes of 'inclusion' - meaning that for each such a one, someone else missed out = exclusion.

You all know who I mean.  As I said - it was with surprise that I saw the latest Defence recruitment ad showing more men for a change.... considering that men are the sharp end and always will be. It is not a holiday camp (as one sailor said of HMAS Watson Training, around 1995 or so) ... and while we appreciate the numbers and certain attributes - I find it shocking to see people with chests full of medals without a shot fired when people who have spent twelve months and more in direct combat have two or three at most.

It's not a feel good exercise.... it's not just an attendance thing... medals should be earned for real commitment to real things.

I bitch a lot about this - always have.  And I think it was the HMAS Westralia that had a fire due to contractor negligence that cost lives... Vic?

Oh - and I'm wary of materiels bought from nations that I do not trust 100% - Japan has had a reputation for a long time of persisting in the pursuit of hegemony in the Asian Pacific Basin, after the loss in WW II, by business means.. the New Samurai and just as merciless....

They are a reluctant ally due to the rising influence and actions of China... but I do not trust them 100%.  They developed THE most extensive anti-submarine capacity - due to the failure to contain and control and combat the US fleet subs chopping their maritime to bits... and a number of other things... as said - many such in the 'business' realm..... and money talks.

I would be reluctant to accept a deal with them for ships......... and 'we' the nation, need to be absolutely certain of what is in them.

We don't want any 'cut-off' switches ... or black holes into which their systems can be plunged at the press of a button.

On a lighter note - the problems with the USS South Dakota at the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal were purely design issues - the 16" guns firing knocked out EVERY electrical relay .... a system error not in existence with the USS Washington of the class just before but similarly armed etc which ship promptly clobbered the Japanese battleship ... I just don't want systems going down at a crucial moment for the crews...

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 7^th, 2025 at 9:11pm:

There is a problem there.  We don't have sufficient budget to do both things. Australia has limited budgetary means, it can afford to spend money on expensive ships or expensive rescue organisations.  Then, what do we do when we are really faced with a disaster such as Cyclone Tracey in Darwin?  Gough wisely dispatched MELBOURNE and other ships because the scale of the disaster overwhelmed the limited relief organisation that was available.  We sent civilian planes to evacuate the population holding for many years the record for the number of people crammed on a 747 from Singapore.  We simply did not have the resources otherwise.  Yes, the primary role of the ADF is the defence of Australia, 'to hurt people and break their stuff' as Belgarion put it but they have a secondary role as a source of trained, disciplined manpower that can accomplish most of the tasks assigned to them.  No, that doesn't mean they have to spend time on training for that task but does mean they need to be available to provide, "Aid to the civil power" when required to.  I have fought bush fires when I was in the Army.  It was simply another duty which has to be performed.  The Navy has had to evacuate people trapped by bush fires, the air force to drop supplies, no one else is equipped for such duties and available to perform them.  Look at the cries whenever there is a need to build new ships or submarines, imagine what will be screamed about if we need new fire engines for the bush fire brigade.  Bobby will be screaming over spilt milk, JaSin will be claiming we can build better ones in Australia if we need to purchase something overseas.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

We certainly have along and proud history with aid to civil power in natural disasters,but when ADF equipment starts being tailored to aid to civil power instead of war fighting we need to reassess.
  Increasingly government sees the ADF as a  convenient resource and a way to deal with natural disasters on the cheap instead of investing in emergency services. The use of the ADF in nursing homes during Covid was a real wake up call as to how far this dependence has gone.

Belgarion wrote on Aug 8^th, 2025 at 10:32am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 7th, 2025 at 9:11pm: There is a problem there.  We don't have sufficient budget to do both things. Australia has limited budgetary means, it can afford to spend money on expensive ships or expensive rescue organisations.  Then, what do we do when we are really faced with a disaster such as Cyclone Tracey in Darwin?  Gough wisely dispatched MELBOURNE and other ships because the scale of the disaster overwhelmed the limited relief organisation that was available.  We sent civilian planes to evacuate the population holding for many years the record for the number of people crammed on a 747 from Singapore.  We simply did not have the resources otherwise.  Yes, the primary role of the ADF is the defence of Australia, 'to hurt people and break their stuff' as Belgarion put it but they have a secondary role as a source of trained, disciplined manpower that can accomplish most of the tasks assigned to them.  No, that doesn't mean they have to spend time on training for that task but does mean they need to be available to provide, "Aid to the civil power" when required to.  I have fought bush fires when I was in the Army.  It was simply another duty which has to be performed.  The Navy has had to evacuate people trapped by bush fires, the air force to drop supplies, no one else is equipped for such duties and available to perform them.  Look at the cries whenever there is a need to build new ships or submarines, imagine what will be screamed about if we need new fire engines for the bush fire brigade.  Bobby will be screaming over spilt milk, JaSin will be claiming we can build better ones in Australia if we need to purchase something overseas.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) We certainly have along and proud history with aid to civil power in natural disasters,but when ADF equipment starts being tailored to aid to civil power instead of war fighting we need to reassess.   Increasingly government sees the ADF as a  convenient resource and a way to deal with natural disasters on the cheap instead of investing in emergency services. The use of the ADF in nursing homes during Covid was a real wake up call as to how far this dependence has gone.

That was ScoMo and Co.  They lacked any understanding of what the ADF is meant for and it showed time and again.  It was "Aid to the Civil power" in reaction to a natural disaster.  The ADF rose to the challenge and excelled.  What was telling to me was the deployment of the Army on civil tasks, patrolling the streets of Melbourne to keep civilians off the streets during the lockdown.  The Army was not equipped, trained or understood what they were doing there.  The use of the ADF in hospitals/nursing homes was not unprecedented it occurred during the last pandemic in 1919.  Australia was overwhelmed then and was overwhelmed in the COVID one.  I think the main problem is the at the Top.  The CDF is only too willing to use the ADF in roles and tasks it is not meant to used in.

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 7^th, 2025 at 9:11pm:

There is a problem there.  We don't have sufficient budget to do both things. Australia has limited budgetary means, it can afford to spend money on expensive ships or expensive rescue organisations.

Why?

From $650m to $5.5b: Massive blowout for renewables zone
The cost of building NSW’s first renewable energy zone has risen from $65 milion to more than $5.5 billion in a further increase after last year’s jump, underscoring the hit to consumers from the transition to low-carbon power.

AFR

They spent $450m on their Voice campaign.
$29m on a flagpole.
$20m to Hamas
Millions each year to Indonesia
...the list goes on.

Good posts.

I've done Marine Rescue and when it had to rescue 35 naval personnel. Of course, you'll never hear about such naval incompetence, for obvious reasons. But the fact is that the Military mindset is not 'safe' and it has shown time and again. Even joining Academic divers for research, we could tell that we would have to keep an eye on their 'clumsy' ways.

The ADF should not be the main excuse for Rescues. It's not their forte. It's not... military. It may appear they are doing a good job. But it's only because Australia does not have an effective National Rescue industry that would do an even better job of it.

I'm sorry to say, but Australia, Great Britain and USA has a medical-rescue culture-industry akin to nothing more than a sick bay in a Military Base and Parliament house.
I can tell you that European, NZ to Cuba and even South Africa have far superior trained and professional Medical & Rescue personnel.
That's fine. Each region has its strengths. But Medical/Rescue is not one of Australia's. Like I said, the fact that most of it runs on the vapours of Volunteer and Donations, says a lot.

But the root cause is tax-payer's money being spent on all the wrong things. $450m for Media for the Voice campaign. $29m for a flagpole on the SHBridge, $20m to Hamas and so on. Flippant and frivolous spendings into dead ends.

Let the Military do it's Defence (invading other countries for America). While the Medical should be doing the Rescuing. It's a pretty normal act of true professions in other countries here.
But at the moment under Albo, it seems it's all about appeasing a Media image as if he was some actor from Hollywood.

I have watched and waited for all those that “should know “ to identity the link between the announcement on that particular day.

But alas it appears history is easily forgotten.




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowra_breakout

Advanced warship?
Another toy for the boys.
Can it compete against some other Nations’ steam submarines?

Regarding these latest toys, they are going to cost billions of dollars.
Meanwhile our native wildlife is being threatened by imported predators and imported weeds, the fire ants and cane toads adapt and are moving South.
Camels and donkeys, in increasing numbers, are destroying native species’ habitat and the camels also posing a threat to humans as well.

A few of the apparently inexhaustible billions could be spent on these real everyday problems, but it wouldn’t look good in the history books to be remembered for eradicating fire ants.

“The "wa borer" likely refers to the Polyphagous shot-hole borer (PSHB), an invasive beetle detected in Western Australia (WA) since 2021. It attacks a wide range of trees by tunnelling into them and introducing a fungus that can kill the tree. The borer is particularly problematic because it has no known chemical treatment and can spread easily through infested wood. “

I believe that the federal government has a clever plan.
By allowing the borers to destroy every tree in western Australian and advance East while at the same time protecting and allowing the fire ants to move south while NSW Minns government fails to stop land clearing of endangered Koalas habitats eventually the fire ants and borers will meet near the Victoria and south Australian border and fight it out!

This clever strategy will mean our  Albo government will have to  do nothing effective and just stand on the roof and play fiddle as Australian land is slowly destroyed and our wildlife destroyed.

I’m sure if they can they will award themselves an environmental certificate for their actions!

It’s not funny because it’s true- LOOK OVER THE OTHER SIDE THE WORLD, nothing to see here in Australia too worried about 😞😒

Well under a Lefty government in power.
Don't expect much benefit to Right-wing industries like Military and Politics itself.

Albo government is just grabbing any opportunity to distract from its own failures to deliver assistance to Australian families and instead pretending to be world saviours.