I saw the program as well and considered it very thought provoking. Of especial note was the comment by one of the confirmed recidivists and nonprogram participents (not verbatim) - "it is a criminal problem, not a mental problem". Which confirms my opinion these individuals have quite clearly rationalised their behaviour as an illegal drug user might - it might be illegal, but that don't neccessarily make it wrong...... Consequently, if you're a parent your natural concern is going to extend to the welfare of your child, if you're a community minded person that concern will extend well past your own immediate familial boundary to broader societial welfare. But your concerns for your or others children wont deter a rock spiders sexual deviance. In fact there really isn't any "remedy" or redemption for people of any sexual persuasion other than "normal" people supposedly, as physcologists ahve announced there is no such thing as "normal" human sexual behaviour, urhum unless it's hetrosexual or homosexual of course. Most pedos, bestiality, necrophiliacs and others that act outside "accepted" or "normal" sexual behaviour parameters use almost the exact same catch cry and rational that homosexuals used to agitate for change until homosexual acts were no longer percieved as "unnatural or perverted" sexual acts and consequentially de-criminalised. As can be evidenced by the open remarks of the condemned - it aint wrong - just criminal........ It is in fact, it must be said, that this is one of the major disconcerting reminders that people like the Rev Fred Nile and others of similar ilk like to remind us of: that if this rational formulated into a simple catch cry can be used by homosexuals and subsequent legal provence is accorded and laws are withdrawn from the statutes, then what is to stop further concessions to Kiwis and their love for all things wooly? (sorry I just couldn't resist myself there, I had to make a joke, pardon) It is also one of the more terrifying aspects of why most "normal" hetrosexual people still can't reconcile into their own beliefs homosexuality is "normal" - the rational goes like this; if the line that declares some forms of sexuality is an arbitrary one, and it is simply a matter of bringing pressure to bear on the government of the day, then what is to prevent say the age of consent mirroring that of some european countries of 13 years of age being introduced into law in Australia? Lets not forget that one of the planks used to argue for a more tolerant view on homosexual acts was that Europe was able to be tolerant toward homosexuality so why shouldn't we? Similarly if 13 years of age is acceptable in tolerant europe, then what age IS ethically tolerable for a child to have sex with a partner in this country? Would many fathers of 13 year old teenagers "tolerate" their son being buggered? What of animal sex? Is it simply a matter of a donkey or pig showing sexual excitment or acceptance to a man, or woman to justify the act of "love"? History tells us course that the mores' of the day are the deciding factor in what laws stand and what won't. But how can acceptance and tolerance of teenage pedo's be tolerated in society if the judical system doesn't first point the way to acts justified before the Law? In other words if the courts see no reason or pressure to bring down harsh sentences upon the heads of these perpertrators of crime and there is pressure to be tolerant then in future we might expect to see increasing diversion therapy sentences and findings overturned on appeal. Well paid barristers and QC's aren't paid thousands of dollars a hour because the "might" know a way to extricate you from your present position. We dont need to look far in our recent past in Britain and even to present day Europe to find most of our present day attitudes to legal sexual acts are just a fairly recent innovation in our codified ethics and morals. It was only in the 1890's - just over a hundred years ago - to find when laws that criminalised child prostitution were enacted. During Queen Victorias' rule she influenced the parliment to outlaw child prostitution. Yup - not just pedo but open and unhindered child prostitution was rampart here and in most of the colonised world of Brittainia. One of the innovations the aristocracy and Monarchy of Britain bought to most of the colonies. And until the early 1900's you prolly wouldn't find laws like that in the colonies books either. I don't know if there is any scholarly work about, that has investigated just how entrenched prostitution of the indigenous, the convicts (read white slave labour - and the recent immigrants reckon they are hard done by? I haven't heard of any of their children being forced into prostitution while they wait to get citizenship) or their progeny were, but you can assume that no mercy was given to children aboard those voyages coming over here, nor the early children of the convicts that found themselves born here. When it came to satisfying the depraved needs of the Landlord masters the Govenors and the troopers that protected them the slaves and their children were merely instruments used to serve the needs of those in power. Returning to the present, in consideration of how we might deal with these parasites, like most pyschopaths and sociopaths they will only refrain from indulging in these excitements if they have a pronounced and impending fear of being caught and punished in a way that interferes with their freedom. This accounts for the worldwide push from all quarters for increased monitoring of convicted sex crime offenders with electronic tagging. I personally advocate the mandatory electronic tagging of all sex crime offenders. No matter how minor the crime - there should of course be some form of sliding rule applied to outline the mandatory wearing of the tag for minor offences. While sex crimes deemed unforgivable mandate lifetime monitoring. I believe that over a period of perhaps 30 years the movements and behaviours of these types of predators can perhaps help to solve the puzzle of how or more precisely why people become the sexual monsters they do. Nature or nuture as it were. More broadly I think there is however (since the laws against sex with a child were enacted, along with any other law) the ability for the powerful to evade prosecution for commiting a crime through the firmly established networks of the old boy networks in elite private religious schools, quasi-religious child organisations where children are placed into the care of other adults for extended periods of time, orphanages run by religious organisations, jails and slave runs by colonialists - nearly always organisations that extended from religious or elite private education institutional heritage extending from the Crown of England down................. Catholic, Protestant, Methodist, Jewish, Islamic or otherwise. To suggest that single sex schools some how have become paragons of sexual behaviour in the last decade or so is to ignore the history of how these schools operate, no matter what the religious persuasion. Our indigenous brothers can attest to that through having had to endure every concievable religious proslytism concievable to man and g*d willingly persecuted often enough with brutal results through the act of buggery perpertrated upon them and their children with indifference. It's been pointed out previously in this thread there seems to be a lack of a concerted effort to stamp out this behaviour through any effort to bring the criminal networks down and charge the members. It is less about the making of the punishment fit the crime and more about lieniancy toward peers. There isn't a crime on the books however where this form of social/spiritual bartering doesn't influence the outcome of the sentence meted out. In almost all instances where any form of leiniency toward the offender eventuates, odds on it seems as if a prerequisite character reference outlining repentance and a clearly observed period of remorseful behaviour is accounted for blah blah blah etc. from the offenders parish priest or chaplain is tendered post finding and pre sentencing, as if it thereby is to account toward having served some form of penance or commisserate penality in the eyes of the judiciary and the terms of imprisonment or severity of a sentence is consequently discounted. At least this is my perception of how these matters are dealt with. In addition it has been a rewarding although traumatic experience to hear stories from others that directly had to learn to deal with the repercussions of our "enlightened" civilisation. In the eighties I worked as a relief cook in an Aboriginal alcohol and drug rehab centre in Broome - Milliya Rummurra. Stories I heard of slavery and human debasement perpertrated by religious zealots of various sects along with the police and other sections of the judicaiary and government agencies borders upon crimes of war. We the colonists and their agents of Britain should be grateful that the indig are not vengeful people, we should also pray and hope they never become full of revenge for the crimes that their people have endured for it is like nothing I have ever read about before. Listening to the stories brought tears to my eyes and to this day breaks my heart to know that ungracious and callous disregard for this one aspect of the how the religious para-military proslytising zealots infested and cruelly brutalised the indig for the riches they could extract at the expense of the naive loving (non-sexual) accepting native indig. Paradoxically however most activist indigenous people this century erronously believe that somehow the white poor people that often enough lived alongside the indig got treated better. This is not the reality of the time as contemporary history of the poor white people brought here to serve the upper-class and aristocrats. How the English treated the Irish at that same time in history is testament to that. It is unfortunate that so many of us whiteys clearly wish to believe our past stems from a history free from the taint of slavery - for that is exactly how our convict forebears saw their sentence. It is exactly how our forebears were treated not just criminals - but slaves. Not simply was it a simple matter of going to pokie for a couple of weeks for unpaid fines or a case of petty larceny ie shoplifting like it is these days. Going to jail in the mid to late 1800's in England almost always meant time chain-ganged in the lower holds of old ship-hulks left to rot in English ports and harbours, for their jails were full to overflowing and they had nowhere else to confine criminals. Transportee - for the term of your natural life, wasn't an oxymoron for a cheap holiday spent on Bondi Beach with the mates knockin back a few ales like the backpackers of today. No. A life sentence then meant you had been enslaved to a system that announced you would be working for the benefit of the Monarch and those it accorded privileges too ie the aristocracy and it's military governors unitl the last day you drew breath into your lungs. In the instance of Australian convict times that meant you could end up on a chain gang clearing land for some runt 2nd in line aristocratic limp dick from England so he could make a living off the land for his family of inbreds - for the rest of your life enslaved to a English Aristocrat Lord - if you were lucky. You'd have met the descendents of one of these limpdicks if you've ever met anyone who declares their family has a owned a property for 5 generations or more and it was granted by the monarch of the time. It is improbable however unless you have met a elderly member of the Victorian Liberal Party as this is where this relic ostensibly surveyed it's domain. Interestingly and somehow ironically tho' while some might use the phrase "don't be so Victorian" as an insult it should be remembered if not for this astute hemp smoking hippy widower queen our children might still be a bugger for the evenings enjoyment for an middle-class yuppie government HOD. Addendum - while some of you might find it intolerable in what I have written and perhaps even antagonistic toward homosexual acts, I should like to point out that while most of my red-necked school friends might have gone bashing the pedos hanging around the public toilets in railways and sports grounds around Brisbane in the 70's and 80's you would more be more likely to find me enjoying myself with friends dancing and drinking at The Silver Dollar, downstairs in The Rose or sometimes even the Hacienda with close friends and aquaintances. So please dont make any half arsed attempt at trying to paint me as homo- phobic, if you're going to try that you had better come philosophically well armed and be prepared to leave the battle mentally scarred. For the record, my sexuality is none of your goddam business.