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The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb (Read 937 times)

freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #60 - Yesterday at 1:47pm

Gnads wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:19pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:16am:

lee wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:14am:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 8:49am:

Perhaps the Liberal party would have us believe in unicorns, and base their re-election strategy on it, until their critics can prove they do not exist.

So like you, they have no clue. That's all good.

I see you still haven't spelled out exactly what the minimum power generation shoulkd be. One must assume you think it is nothing. Wink

You do have a tendency to make it up when you don't know what you are talking about.

Would you also have us describe in great detail the features of the unicorns we do not think exist?

Hope your bike has mirrors? - you're back peddling so much.

What am I back pedalling on Gnads? You could at least try to make some sense. The Liberal party will not thanks you for posting mindless dribble on their behalf.

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #61 - Yesterday at 1:49pm

Gnads wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:29pm:

Oh & TASMANIA does not have the cheapest electricity.

https://www.premier.tas.gov.au/latest-news/2024/december/tasmania-continues-to-lead-the-nation-with-the-lowest-electricity-prices

Quote:

It’s been confirmed that Tasmania continues to have the lowest electricity prices in the nation for households and small businesses.

Treasurer, Guy Barnett, said the Independent Tasmanian Economic Regulator report shows that Tasmanian regulated residential customers on all tariffs have the lowest bills in the country and Tasmanian small business customers on both regulated and median time-of-use and general usage tariffs also have the lowest annual bills.

Gnads wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:32pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:15pm:

Quote:

What having baseload power means is having reliable supply that can handle peak demands without brown or black outs.

Thanks for shifting the goal posts again. But your definition is no less circular than Lee's attempt to define the minimum required power as whatever "it" needs.

Can you tell us what "peak demand" is?

Quote:

Batteries can not & will never do that

They can quite easily, but they won't do it alone, nor will they need to. We already have plenty of hydro, gas peaking etc. And people are already using the batteries in electric vehicles to get power when there is a blackout for the most common reason - storms. So the transition has already started to improve the reliability of supply.

Morning & afternoon peaks when the biggest draw on supply occurs.

You must again be deliberately being obtuse.

Try again Gnads. I did not ask you when it happens.

Are you having difficulty comprehending the question?

Gnads wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 7:49pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:36pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:37pm:

lee wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:23pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:59pm:

The consequence being that those who spruik it cannot even say what it is.

And those that think not, cannot mount a case for that. Wink

you are the one citing baseload, it's up to you to show it, not up to others to show that it doesn't exist.

Imagine applying that to any argument. I can claim aliens exist and then demand others prove there are no aliens Cheesy

Yes it is if they say it doesn't exist. You hypocrite.

Up to you to prove it exists first ya dumbarse since that was the original claim

No it's not dickhead. Major industry requires better supply than wind , solar & batteries.

So do huge metropolitan populations.

Give yourself an uppercut you complete phukwit.

Yes it is up to you Gnads. Losing your temper and insulting people does not make up for your inability to form a rational argument. Your insistence is no less stupid than asking someone to define a unicorn or disprove it's existence. But it does reveal a lot about why the Liberal party is losing votes and losing seats in every direction.

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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lee

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #62 - Yesterday at 2:10pm

freediver wrote Yesterday at 1:49pm:

https://www.premier.tas.gov.au/latest-news/2024/december/tasmania-continues-to-lead-the-nation-with-the-lowest-electricity-prices

Oh dear, a politician who does not lie? Grin

"State-by-State Electricity Price Breakdown

Australia’s National Electricity Market (NEM) spans several states and territories, each with its own mix of generation sources, network infrastructure, and regulatory settings. Here’s an in-depth look at the average residential electricity prices (in cents per kWh) by state for the fiscal year 2024/25 and what is projected for the future:
Australian Capital Territory (ACT)

Current Price: Approximately 30 c/kWh
Projection: A steep decline of around 31% by 2034, with rates potentially falling to approximately 21–22 c/kWh.
Key Drivers: The ACT’s unique pricing structure is influenced by significant costs from its renewable energy feed-in tariff schemes, which are set to decrease dramatically as legacy contracts expire.

New South Wales (NSW)

Current Price: Roughly 25–28 c/kWh
Projection: A moderate decrease of about 14% by 2034, lowering rates into the low 20s c/kWh.
Key Drivers: NSW benefits from a balanced energy mix and robust market competition, which help moderate price declines over time.

Queensland (QLD)

Current Price: Approximately 28–30 c/kWh
Projection: Expected to decline by around 15% by 2034, leading to rates of 24–26 c/kWh.
Key Drivers: Queensland’s mix of renewable and traditional fossil fuel generation, combined with steady network investment, drives these projected savings.

South Australia (SA)

Current Price: Close to 30 c/kWh
Projection: Similar to QLD, SA is forecast to experience a 15% decline by 2034, with prices settling in the mid-20s c/kWh range.
Key Drivers: SA’s past higher prices are influenced by intermittent renewable generation, but upcoming infrastructure improvements are expected to yield cost reductions.

Victoria (VIC)

Current Price: Among the lowest, around 22–23 c/kWh
Projection: A smaller decrease of about 9% by 2034, keeping rates in the low 20s c/kWh.
Key Drivers: Victoria’s efficient energy generation and distribution network, along with competitive retail markets, help keep prices low.

Tasmania (TAS)

Current Price: Approximately 26–27 c/kWh
Projection: A unique case where prices are expected to increase slightly by about 6% by 2034, reaching the upper-20s c/kWh.
Key Drivers: Tasmania’s reliance on hydroelectric power and its smaller, more isolated grid contribute to its divergent trend.

Source: AEMC 2024 Residential Electricity Price Trends Report

https://www.electricityprovider.com.au/electricity/blogs/what-is-the-price-of-el...

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lee

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Gender: male

Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #63 - Yesterday at 2:21pm

From the AEMO -

"Throughout this transition, the NEM must be both reliable and secure. To be reliable, there must be enough generation to meet consumer needs at any point in time. To be secure, the power system must operate safely within its defined technical limits, withstand disturbances, and be able to restart in the event of a widespread outage."

"enough generation to meet consumer needs at any point in time" - Sure sounds like a minimum, or baseload.

"Despite best endeavours, the power system can, on rare occasions, experience cascading failures resulting in loss of supply to large portions of the power system. Recent examples – including on the Iberian Peninsula and Chile in 2025, Brazil in 2023 and 2018, and South Australia in 2016 – demonstrate how failures to maintain sufficient system security can lead to widespread blackouts with severe consequences."

https://www.aemo.com.au/-/media/files/major-publications/tpss/2025-transition-pl...

Related -

"The Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) has warned, however, that while there are enough renewables in the pipeline to cover its closure, supporting infrastructure to keep the grid stable is not expected to be ready."

...

"But he said necessary technology like synchronous condensers, which help to absorb reactive power and keep the grid stable, is not due to be installed until after Eraring’s closure."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-01/energy-grid-not-ready-eraring-coal-aemo/1...

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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #64 - Yesterday at 4:07pm

Quote:

"enough generation to meet consumer needs at any point in time" - Sure sounds like a minimum, or baseload.

It sure sounds like it. But you still haven't answered the question, other than in a circular fashion. Have you tried thinking for yourself rather than googling other people failing to answer the same question?

What is the minimum energy needed? (other than saying the minimum energy needed with slightly different words, or adding "at a point in time" and insisting that clarifies something)

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #65 - Yesterday at 4:12pm

Gnads wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 7:49pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:36pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:37pm:

lee wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:23pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:59pm:

The consequence being that those who spruik it cannot even say what it is.

And those that think not, cannot mount a case for that. Wink

Yes it is if they say it doesn't exist. You hypocrite.

Up to you to prove it exists first ya dumbarse since that was the original claim

No it's not dickhead. Major industry requires better supply than wind , solar & batteries.

So do huge metropolitan populations.

Give yourself an uppercut you complete phukwit.

This is one of the simplest and most fundamental concepts in argumentative logic - you cannot prove a negative. Yet it somehow eludes the Liberal party and their cheerleaders.

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19708 Gender:	Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb Reply #66 - Yesterday at 5:19pm freediver wrote Yesterday at 4:07pm: It sure sounds like it. Yep and there you have it, despite your protestations,
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