Australian Politics Forum - The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb

lee

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #15 - Nov 29^th, 2025 at 1:26pm

LNP never again wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 8:30am:

https://x.com/strangerous10/status/1850724316050247746?t=m5ije1gW3L9fAZJPcfW1yg&...

John Grimes, according to his bio on Smart Energy, has no history or study listed for his opinions.

"John Grimes was appointed Chief Executive in 2008, and has grown the profile and influence of the Smart Energy Council since that time.

John is a bold advocate for the smart energy industry and sits on a number of expert reference committees and boards providing advice to several state governments and the energy sector.

John started his career as an officer in the Air Force and went on to found and grow a number of companies, including a startup company he took to a successful listing on the ASX with a market capitalisation in excess of $30m.

His most recent company was in the environmental sector with operations in Australia, the US and the Middle East.

John has a passion for the solar, storage and the smart energy industry. He is regularly called upon by the media to provide relevant and independent comment in these areas."

https://smartenergy.org.au/our-team/

Ah, passion for a passion Fingered individual.

"A reliable electricity supply is all about balancing the real-time demand and supply."

https://energyfactcheck.com.au/2024/09/17/can-we-have-a-reliable-power-system-wi...

Something that can't be relied upon due to intermittency and the chance that batteries won't be charged. That is energy storage. Wink

As recently as 9 days ago -

"Baseload power refers to the minimum amount of electric power required by a utility to be supplied to the electrical grid at all times. It is the consistent, non-fluctuating foundation of the power supply."

https://study.sustainability-directory.com/learn/what-is-baseload-power-and-why-...

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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #16 - Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 1:08pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 7:36am:

Quote:
Baseload power is simply the minimum needed to provide services

Which is?

What ever it needs at the time.

Which is?

Who decides what "it" needs and how much "it" needs?

Are you saying that the coalition bases their entire energy policy and re-election platform on an imaginary number that disappears into a puff of windbaggery as soon as you ask them what they mean?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Leroy

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #17 - Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:20pm

A base load power station is engineered and built as such. They are mostly larger units depending on grid demands. Starting a base load station will take hours and shutting down also takes hours, you cant just shut them down for a couple of hours as it shortens the life of the unit. When they are running at less than full load they don't run as efficiently. Peak load units can start up in minutes and reduce load in minutes (mainly gas turbines) and normally are smaller units. Grid operators prefer to have enough spinning reserve to cover the largest unit on line at the time so if your biggest running unit is 300Mw the optimum spinning reserve would be 300Mw.

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Trump derangement syndrome
Fareed Zakaria defined the term as "hatred of President Trump so intense that it impairs people's judgment"

Lets check in at 5pm on 23rd July 2025 then at 5pm on 30th July

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Leroy

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #18 - Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:38pm

LNP never again wrote on Nov 28^th, 2025 at 8:09pm:

Where does oversupply of power go in a coal fired power station ? There is power or the lights go out , tell me how a coal fired power station ramps up at a millisecionds notice like batteries and gas us a backup ? It doesnt

Coal fired units have a reserve of pressure in the boiler drum, as an example a boiler may run at 15mpa pressure in the drum supplying steam to the turbine, if demand exceeds supply then the frequency of power will drop from 50hz and when the unit detects that the frequency has dropped to about 49.8htz the turbine ramps up using some of the pressure in the boiler which in turn the boiler will increase the fuel input to correct the pressure. It takes a bit of time for the fuel increase to bring the boiler pressure back to running pressure but the increase in output from the turbine is almost immediate. For a short time the boiler will run at a reduced pressure until it has balanced the fuel back to demand but the turbine will maintain the 50htz. There is a limited time frame depending on the gap in supply and demand. Further drops in frequency will result in load shedding to balance supply and demand.

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Trump derangement syndrome
Fareed Zakaria defined the term as "hatred of President Trump so intense that it impairs people's judgment"

Lets check in at 5pm on 23rd July 2025 then at 5pm on 30th July

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lee

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #19 - Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:45pm

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

Who decides what "it" needs and how much "it" needs?

Oh you do petal. Grin

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

Are you saying that the coalition bases their entire energy policy and re-election platform on an imaginary number that disappears into a puff of windbaggery as soon as you ask them what they mean?

Windbaggery? Sounds suspiciously like wind power. Just put a bigger bag on, a wind turbine bellows. Grin

But do tell us what the minimum requirement is to run a modern manufacturing environment. You must have some idea, since you post about there being no baseload power. Wink

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #20 - Nov 29^th, 2025 at 6:22pm

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:45pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

Who decides what "it" needs and how much "it" needs?

Oh you do petal. Grin

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

Are you saying that the coalition bases their entire energy policy and re-election platform on an imaginary number that disappears into a puff of windbaggery as soon as you ask them what they mean?

Windbaggery? Sounds suspiciously like wind power. Just put a bigger bag on, a wind turbine bellows. Grin

But do tell us what the minimum requirement is to run a modern manufacturing environment. You must have some idea, since you post about there being no baseload power. Wink

The main problem with the OP is it fails to acknowledge that the need to upgrade the Oz power system will be expensive whichever way we go.

As to minimum requirements in Oz (serving business and a population of only 27 million living on a windy, sunny desert the size of China), they can be easily met with a surplus of batteries (widely available) connected to several SunCable equivalent schemes, in conjunction with large pumped hydro schemes in the Great Dividing Range.

And if necessary to meet future requirements, maybe nuclear in a couple of decades might be able replace some of those batteries which need to be be rolled out NOW....so relax, just get on with the unavoidable transition.

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Leroy

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #21 - Nov 29^th, 2025 at 6:58pm

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 7:36am:

Can you tell me what the baseload requirements are?

Base load is the minimum a system requires. If your system needs only 2500mw during low demand and then needs 3800mw at peak loads then the requirement for base load is 2500Mw. This base load can be made up with 8 x 250Mw units that run at full load all the time. This allows you to run these units at maximum efficiency. The remainder of demand will be produced by peak load units that can change load, come on line, go off line at short notice.

The base load units are cheaper to run, higher efficiency, require much less maintenance and have more longevity.

Unfortunately Australians will learn how load shedding works and how it will become part of your life.

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Trump derangement syndrome
Fareed Zakaria defined the term as "hatred of President Trump so intense that it impairs people's judgment"

Lets check in at 5pm on 23rd July 2025 then at 5pm on 30th July

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lee

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #22 - Nov 29^th, 2025 at 7:08pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 6:22pm:

As to minimum requirements in Oz (serving business and a population of only 27 million living on a windy, sunny desert the size of China), they can be easily met with a surplus of batteries (widely available) connected to several SunCable equivalent schemes, in conjunction with large pumped hydro schemes in the Great Dividing Range.

Ah several Suncable schemes, with each costing $30 billion. And the pumped hydro coming in at $12 billion and counting. Grin

Subsidies writ large.

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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #23 - Nov 29^th, 2025 at 9:09pm

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:45pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

Who decides what "it" needs and how much "it" needs?

Oh you do petal. Grin

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

Are you saying that the coalition bases their entire energy policy and re-election platform on an imaginary number that disappears into a puff of windbaggery as soon as you ask them what they mean?

Windbaggery? Sounds suspiciously like wind power. Just put a bigger bag on, a wind turbine bellows. Grin

But do tell us what the minimum requirement is to run a modern manufacturing environment. You must have some idea, since you post about there being no baseload power. Wink

I am not the one pretending there is some "minimum requirement". You are. I am the one telling you it doesn't exist, and you are the one failing to demonstrate that it exists.

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lee

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #24 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 12:19pm

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 9:09pm:

I am not the one pretending there is some "minimum requirement".

No, you are saying there is no minimum requirement. "NO baseload" Wink

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 9:09pm:

I am the one telling you it doesn't exist, and you are the one failing to demonstrate that it exists.

And yet you can't demonstrate that it doesn't exist. Grin

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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #25 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:32pm

Quote:

No, you are saying there is no minimum requirement. "NO baseload"

Correct. There is no such thing as a minimum amount of needed power. It does not exist. Which is why you cannot tell us what it is.

Quote:

And yet you can't demonstrate that it doesn't exist. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Do you understand how stupid this line of argument is? Or are you a Liberal party supporter?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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lee

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #26 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:36pm

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:32pm:

There is no such thing as a minimum amount of needed power.

It will just magically appear. Grin

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:32pm:

Do you understand how stupid this line of argument is?

What, that you can't explain any minimum power requirement, but expect others to so so? You really are deluded. Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51762 At my desk.	Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb Reply #27 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:59pm Yes Lee, it is a meaningless concept, born of economic illiteracy (and Liberal party echo chambers). The consequence being that those who spruik it cannot even say what it is.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19708 Gender:	Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb Reply #28 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:23pm freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:59pm: The consequence being that those who spruik it cannot even say what it is. And those that think not, cannot mount a case for that.
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John Smith

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #29 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:37pm

lee wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:23pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:59pm:

The consequence being that those who spruik it cannot even say what it is.

And those that think not, cannot mount a case for that. Wink

you are the one citing baseload, it's up to you to show it, not up to others to show that it doesn't exist.

Imagine applying that to any argument. I can claim aliens exist and then demand others prove there are no aliens Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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