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Israel's right to exist (Read 9126 times)
Jasin
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #315 - Nov 12th, 2025 at 4:56pm
 
Islam is failing as a military expression.
Israel is just filling the void.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #316 - Nov 12th, 2025 at 5:20pm
 
A secret map President Truman found in FDR's desk that revealed Roosevelt knew
about Nazi concentration camps since 1942 but refused to bomb them.
Learn the disturbing truth about the railway lines to Auschwitz
that could have been destroyed, the tens of thousands of lives that might have been saved,
and the sick political calculations behind Roosevelt's decision.


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Sir lastnail
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #317 - Nov 12th, 2025 at 6:48pm
 
Jasin wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 4:56pm:
Islam is failing as a military expression.
Israel is just filling the void.


So how did it fare dealing with Iran Cheesy LOL
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"All of the arab states have said we will have peace with Israel when there is a state of Palestine as a UN member state and properly constituted." - Jeffrey Sachs.
 
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Jasin
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #318 - Nov 12th, 2025 at 7:00pm
 
More BBC nonsense from Nail Roll Eyes
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #319 - Nov 12th, 2025 at 11:38pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 6:48pm:
Jasin wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 4:56pm:
Islam is failing as a military expression.
Israel is just filling the void.


So how did it fare dealing with Iran Cheesy LOL


America bombed their nuclear capability into the dust... any further questions?  Iran is isolated as the most extreme Islamist regime on Earth - they alone have an absolute 'legal requirement' to kill gays, stone women and all that Dark Age horse manure.

What else do you need to know? The sooner the Irani regime is gone from this Earth - the better it will be for everyone.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #320 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 6:18am
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 11:38pm:
Iran is isolated as the most extreme Islamist regime on Earth

So, not Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, then?
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #321 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 8:18am
 
Or Saudi Arabia.
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OzPolitic needs a >real< Environment MRB now!
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Topics in the right MRB!
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #322 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 8:24am
 
What needs to be understood is that religiosity and religious zeal are the norms in human societies, not the exception.

The vast majority of people would likely admit to a (strong) religious belief rather than not (excluding those who claim a spiritual sensibility or people living under repressive atheistic regimes).

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Frank
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #323 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 9:05am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 13th, 2025 at 6:18am:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 11:38pm:
Iran is isolated as the most extreme Islamist regime on Earth

So, not Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, then?

Anger In Russia Over Muslim Migrants Praying In Public


Central Asian migrants have said they fear that street praying could lead to a backlash.

Daler, a 34-year-old Tajik taxi driver who only gave his first name, said he has seen migrants praying in the streets or "near buildings or rubbish bins." Most of them, he said, are Tajik, Uzbek, or Kyrgyz taxi drivers who fear missing prayers if they wait until they get to a mosque.

"It draws attention and builds resentment toward migrants," Daler told RFE/RL. "I respect people's right to religious freedom, but I think we shouldn't add fuel to hostility toward migrants by praying where it inconveniences people."

https://www.rferl.org/a/islam-prayers-muslim-migrants-russia-tajikistan-khabarov...
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #324 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 11:26am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 4:02pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 1:06pm:
Note: none of the other members would have used their veto against enforcing the partition; perhaps Britain hadn't yet adjusted to the fact is was no longer the woirld's superpower and would need to cooperate with other powers (in this case the UNSC powers). 


A veto would have only cancelled the outcome, not reversed it.


I meant:  without the  disastrous UNSC veto (the granting of which  Doc Evatt had fought to resist, a fight which he lost) the UNSC would have easily enforced the partition as per UN res 181, since all 5 members  were in favour of UN res 181, I think.

Quote:
Doc Evatt had ensured that the UNSCOP Partition decision won out over the other option. He cajoled Truman to support partition even against Truman's own administration, which vehemently opposed it. Truman, for his part, blackmailed every nation he could at the UN, particularly the Philippines, African states, and South American states, with economic and aid consequences if they did not vote for partition, to help ensure a 2/3 majority for partition. Stalin was for partition (so that was the Soviet bloc sorted), as was France.


Ah.....Truman versus his own administration...the plot thickens. Thanks.

Any clues why Truman was so aligned  with the Evatt plan, against the (anti-Jewish/anti-Zionist?) US administration?

While the UNSC was toothless in any case,  to defend the partition as per UN res 181.    


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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #325 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 12:13pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 5:20pm:
A secret map President Truman found in FDR's desk that revealed Roosevelt knew
about Nazi concentration camps since 1942 but refused to bomb them.
Learn the disturbing truth about the railway lines to Auschwitz
that could have been destroyed, the tens of thousands of lives that might have been saved,
and the sick political calculations behind Roosevelt's decision.




So...the American public - like much of the Christian world -  was anti-semitic at the time, so Roosevelt, the politician,  had domestic issues to contend with...

(And he no doubt knew bombing the concentration camps would have killed the inmates waiting to be gassed).

So we can see (from the video)  how American guilt resulted in  Truman's support for the Partition plan...... and Israel's creation.

How can the world get rid of illegal WB Jewish settlers now, given 'iron-clad US support' for Israel?
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #326 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 12:29pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2025 at 11:26am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 4:02pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 1:06pm:
Note: none of the other members would have used their veto against enforcing the partition; perhaps Britain hadn't yet adjusted to the fact is was no longer the woirld's superpower and would need to cooperate with other powers (in this case the UNSC powers). 


A veto would have only cancelled the outcome, not reversed it.


I meant:  without the  disastrous UNSC veto (the granting of which  Doc Evatt had fought to resist, a fight which he lost) the UNSC would have easily enforced the partition as per UN res 181, since all 5 members  were in favour of UN res 181, I think.

Britain abstained, but advised the UN that it believed partition would be unenforceable as both sides would breach it using the most brutal form of warfare they could inflict, meaning UN peacekeepers would be slaughtered in the crossfire.

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #327 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 12:41pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2025 at 11:26am:
Quote:
Doc Evatt had ensured that the UNSCOP Partition decision won out over the other option. He cajoled Truman to support partition even against Truman's own administration, which vehemently opposed it. Truman, for his part, blackmailed every nation he could at the UN, particularly the Philippines, African states, and South American states, with economic and aid consequences if they did not vote for partition, to help ensure a 2/3 majority for partition. Stalin was for partition (so that was the Soviet bloc sorted), as was France.


Ah.....Truman versus his own administration...the plot thickens. Thanks.

Any clues why Truman was so aligned  with the Evatt plan, against the (anti-Jewish/anti-Zionist?) US administration?

Doc Evatt had close Australian Jewish friends and was very much interested in helping Jews fleeing Europe and those already in Palestine, so he set about covertly assisting the Zionist cause, even over his instructions from the Australian government to remain impartial.

Truman was not anti-Jewish and had some heart for their plight in Europe, but he was hindered by his administration, particularly the State Department, whose seniors resented Jewish influence in the US, were outright Jew-haters - a common sensibility in late-40s US - and did not want to offend the new Arab states and risk an oil embargo backlash.

Evatt's influence on Truman was predicated on Truman's own leanings towards assisting Jews and, as Evatt suggested, avoiding a mass immigration of Jews into the US, which he feared would damage his presidency in the minds of the American people.

To this day, Jewish-Israeli scholars are convinced that without Evatt's help, partition would not even have been put to the vote in the UN.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #328 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 4:10pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 13th, 2025 at 12:29pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2025 at 11:26am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 4:02pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 12th, 2025 at 1:06pm:
Note: none of the other members would have used their veto against enforcing the partition; perhaps Britain hadn't yet adjusted to the fact is was no longer the woirld's superpower and would need to cooperate with other powers (in this case the UNSC powers). 


A veto would have only cancelled the outcome, not reversed it.


I meant:  without the  disastrous UNSC veto (the granting of which  Doc Evatt had fought to resist, a fight which he lost) the UNSC would have easily enforced the partition as per UN res 181, since all 5 members  were in favour of UN res 181, I think.

Britain abstained, but advised the UN that it believed partition would be unenforceable as both sides would breach it using the most brutal form of warfare they could inflict, meaning UN peacekeepers would be slaughtered in the crossfire.



Otoh, an UNSC speaking with one voice, ie without being split by the veto, could have 'laid down the law' to prospective law-breakers, thereby easily neutering  any opposition to 181 without firing a shot....except those indoctrinated fools willing to die as martyrs for their cause.....


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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #329 - Nov 13th, 2025 at 4:55pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2025 at 4:10pm:
Otoh, an UNSC speaking with one voice, ie without being split by the veto, could have 'laid down the law' to prospective law-breakers, thereby easily neutering  any opposition to 181 without firing a shot....except those indoctrinated fools willing to die as martyrs for their cause.....



Those martyrs included Arabs and militant Zionists, many of whom were military-trained Polish Jews, who'd already proved with their terror campaign against the British Mandate that they were a seriously effective fighting force.

The UN peacekeepers may have been required to be unarmed, which would have been a death sentence.

As it was, in 1948, immediately after the state of Israel was declared, a vicious, brutal war did follow, after an Arab force attacked it - exactly as Britain had predicted.
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