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Who might be an Aboriginal? (Read 3220 times)
Lisa Jones
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #30 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 4:06pm
 
Aussie wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 12:49pm:
Quote:
'An Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander is a person of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who identifies as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander and is accepted as such by the community in which he or she lives'


All bow to the mighty Aussie. 

I coined that expression around 1972/73 at a Meeting of local Abos having a dispute about what an Abo was at the Civic Centre Bundaberg and it was recorded by an ABC Crew headed by a young journo turk called Kerry O'Brien.

Cool


You can’t even answer a simple question in the topic next door! In fact I don’t think you should be allowed anywhere near a referendum ballot paper this October. You can’t follow questions. And the topic next door in which I deliberately asked you a simple question along the same format as the upcoming Referendum proves it!

Now....let’s get back to this topic. Have another think about your above response for a moment.

Apply it to the family in question.

Can you see any issues?
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Frank
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #31 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 4:12pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 1:05pm:
Gnads wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 12:48pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 11:10am:
I think you guys and gals have some confusions going on. 

A person can free identify himself or her as an Aborigine even though he may not be of Aborigine descend.  This is that person's right of freedom of speech and personal liberty. 

However, in order to be recognised as someone of aborigine descend, and therefore, be eligible for government subsidies, and entitlements, that someone must have a 'letter of confirmation' is usually obtained from an incorporated Indigenous organisation and must be stamped with their common seal.  So its not like, someone random from overseas with zero% blood is able to obtain it. 

Now, one can say, oh you can potentially commit a fraud if you buy enough people out.  Well.. if you can buy enough people out, then you probably dont need to have government subsidies.  Or just get a fake MBBS qualifications or something.   Grin Grin Grin


Anywhere else people doing that are guilty of racial appropriation ....

in other words fraudulent behaviour.

As for the rest of your post so you're admitting that Aboriginal people get subsidies & entitlements not available to other Australians?

You don't sound anything like the usual tickleandrose. In fact no where near it.... more childlike.


It is the law.  Freedom of speech and personal liberty means that as individual, we can 'claim' that we are x, y or z.    In fact, it is well known in the census, people put down Jedi as their religion!  As long as they dont use what ever they pretend for fraudulent purposes, causing material damage to others, then, its okay. 

As to the rest of your post... well, yes..  we being talking about native titles... and there is this thing called Abstudy. 



You can self-identify as a lampshade if you like -we  are just not obliged to recognise you as a lampshade.

importantly, there is no preferment of any kind for lampshade- identifying people but there is plenty for Aborigines - that is why their number shoots up every year out of all proportion of natural increases.

Increasingly, Aborigines also demand that we just take them at their words of self-identification and treat any suggestion of verification as outrageous raclism. Perhaps for this sort of reason, nobody ever ask you for any verification in higher education, Abstudy, Mobtix (the latest idiocy) and many other Aboriginal concessions. In your great great great grandfather was Aborigine (and nobody else in the family since him) you are a Proud Aborigine with all the dysfunction, disadvantage and consequential entitlements. Just ask Marcus Stewart.
He is a proud Nira illim bulluk man of the Taungurung Nation and co-chair of the First Peoples’ Assembly of Victoria. Marcus is Brian Aboriginal, and so is his wife, a dysfunctional disadvantaged but proud Muthi Muthi and Wamba-Wamba woman , currently taking refuge from intergenerational colonial trauma in the Federal Senate.

...
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/identity/2023/03/a-family-heritage-overpainted-w...
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #32 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 4:24pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 4:06pm:
Aussie wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 12:49pm:
Quote:
'An Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander is a person of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who identifies as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander and is accepted as such by the community in which he or she lives'


All bow to the mighty Aussie. 

I coined that expression around 1972/73 at a Meeting of local Abos having a dispute about what an Abo was at the Civic Centre Bundaberg and it was recorded by an ABC Crew headed by a young journo turk called Kerry O'Brien.

Cool


You can’t even answer a simple question in the topic next door! In fact I don’t think you should be allowed anywhere near a referendum ballot paper this October. You can’t follow questions. And the topic next door in which I deliberately asked you a simple question along the same format as the upcoming Referendum proves it!

Now....let’s get back to this topic. Have another think about your above response for a moment.

Apply it to the family in question.

Can you see any issues?


I have told you TWICE that what you posted concerning Richardson was factually incorrect.  You have typically chosen to ignore that and crap on with another refined question about whether I think he is a fraud.  About that, I could not give a flying f
uck
.  He is yesterday's very old news and Off Topic.

That definition I coined has been upheld in the High Court, so that will do me.


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Frank
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #33 - Nov 9th, 2023 at 2:00pm
 
Defining Aboriginality


The legal definition of Aboriginality is a complex issue, raising questions that have to do with identity, epistemology and politics. And while "race" as a biological category has been scientifically discredited, it still persists in Australian society, culture and law. So how should Aboriginality be defined? Is it possible to have a fixed definition that avoids replicating colonialist ways of thinking and knowing?

Guest: Taylor-Jai McAlister, clinical psychology registrar, PhD candidate in Philosophy at Macquarie University, Sydney

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/philosopherszone/defining-aboriginality/1...

She 'has issues' with descent, biological descent, as a defining characteristic of Aboriginality, itself a settler colonial construct. She doesn't say how 'Aborigines construct' their identity as Aborigines but believe that the settler colonial definitions gradually define Aboriginality out of existence. Perhaps she means her own case, looking nothing like a descendant of Aborigines.  Complains about 'lateral violence', Aborigines not accepting claims of Aboriginality by people who appear nothing like Aborigines.

But if not descent - what determine Aboriginality?  Should Aboriginality be treated like a religion or a political choice that can be  adopted or rejected?
Philosophy departments, like all other Arts faculties, are now infected with muddy and resentful 'thinking'.



...


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« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2023 at 2:14pm by Frank »  

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JC Denton
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #34 - Nov 9th, 2023 at 2:17pm
 
https://twitter.com/HuttNationalist/status/1713860900837532146

this twitter thread explains how abo is defined today, pretty interesting
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #35 - Nov 9th, 2023 at 4:38pm
 
Anyone?  what about that pink little cherub with the red hair and beard explaining some dead language... he made it past the post.... five out of six 'Indigenous' medical graduates from UNSW had not a feature among them - blue eyes, blonde hair... one looked like a fat Greek or something ....

They should just give it up... I like the Canadian system - your parents or grandparents must be pure blood...
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« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2023 at 5:10pm by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #36 - Nov 9th, 2023 at 5:08pm
 
Oh - I'd say the pair who went on a shooting spree up the Pacific Highway from Coopernook to Kundabung and into Port Macquarie, and who may be linked to a body found on a side road, and identified by police as 'of Aboriginal appearance' stand a good chance of passing the test...

They're being 'questioned' now after shooting at police in Port Mack...

Gee - you could be thinking a war had begun or something...

Wonder if they'll get prison time?  Bit dangerous this deaths in custody thing.... you know .... bruvvas could be hurt in prison if they weren't actually safer there ... must be racist thinking there, eh?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Valkie
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #37 - Nov 9th, 2023 at 5:51pm
 
Aboriginality needs to be define in a clear and honest way.

No more pretend abbos who are sucking the system dry.

Canada has it right.
Parents or grandparents MUST be full blood toaccess any welfare of benefits.

Others can calltgemselves abbos, but not entitled to any benefits.

If we implemented this, the number of aboriginals would drop like a stone and the welfare would get to where it was needed.

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Frank
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #38 - Nov 9th, 2023 at 7:47pm
 
Aborigines are primitive. If that can be made into a virtue, great.

But it can't be be made into a virtue. Being primitive is not a virtue. It is an affliction you needs to get out of, leave behind.

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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #39 - Nov 10th, 2023 at 12:40pm
 
Well - in Oireland I was informed, a person can become any 'gender' they choose by signing to that effect on a piece of paper - and that this now means that MEN are NOT invading women's spaces since they are not now men!!

Well - it seems then that anyone who cares to put name to paper can become whatever they want - so Aboriginal has lost all meaning... well .... more meaning...

Sign here for all benefits etc ......

...
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« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2023 at 10:02am by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #40 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 7:35pm
 
That’s Dr Rachel Farrelly of the tribe of “Farrelly [which]is an anglicised form of Ó Faircheallaigh, a family name of the Irish nobility from County Cavan. The patronym means "descendant of Faircheallaigh", whose name means "super war".[1] Faircheallaigh was the son of Ailill, a 7th-great-grandson of Niall, King of Ireland.[2] He was made the heir of Saint Máedóc of Ferns in the 7th century and his Ó Faircheallaigh descendants were the Abbots of Drumlane for 7 centuries until David Ó Faircheallaigh became Bishop of Kilmore.[3] The surname was anglicised on emigration across the Anglosphere, where Major Patrick Farrelly (m. Elizabeth Mead) founded the Farrelly political family of Pennsylvania with his son David Farrelly, author of the third Pennsylvania Constitution (1836); and General Terrence Farrelly was the first judge of Arkansas County, Speaker of the General Assembly of Arkansas Territory and author of the first Arkansas Constitution (1836); his son John Farrelly (m. Martha Clay) was a politician and his grandson John Patrick Farrelly was Bishop of Cleveland. The surname became Farley and John Farley became Cardinal Archbishop of New York.[4]”
[lifted from Wikipaedia]
She’ll make another good Irish doctor.
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #41 - Nov 28th, 2023 at 8:28am
 

Aboriginal status shouldn’t hold up adoption:’ teen’s plea
By CHRISTINE MIDDAP
8:09AM NOVEMBER 28, 2023


A young Indigenous man who made an impassioned plea to be adopted by his foster parents has been granted his wish by a NSW court, amid warnings that Aboriginality should never be weaponised in decisions involving children.

The NSW Supreme Court heard that Richard*, now 18, was aggrieved that his Aboriginal heritage posed an obstacle to his adoption by the non-Indigenous family that had reared him since he was two.

An Aboriginal consultant told the court that Richard was “very angry that his cultural heritage is the one component that has impacted adversely on this adoption process’’.

The consultant, who was not identified in court documents, said this could lead to Richard rejecting his Aboriginality in the ­future. “Aboriginality should never be weaponised to the point where it impacts on the long-term decision-making for a child/young person. Everyone learns their culture in different ways...,” the consultant said.

“By weaponising Aboriginality, it could potentially lead to a child/young person not identifying in the future because they associate it with trauma and rejection.”

The court heard Richard’s birth mother opposed the adoption because it was contrary to Aboriginal custom and interracial adoption was not in the best interests of Aboriginal children “in the great majority of cases’’.

In deciding the adoption should go ahead, Justice James Stevenson, who last week ruled in another case that two Indigenous siblings could be adopted by their long-term non-Aboriginal foster parents, said Richard’s best interests must be the paramount consideration.

The court head Richard had vented his frustration over the adoption process, writing to the judge: “I’ve spoken to that many people over the years telling them what I want and what my needs are … to have my adoption to go through; it’s getting to the point where I feel like no one is listening to me.

“I understand I have Aboriginal heritage in my blood and I will identify with my culture as I please; this shouldn’t be something that should hold up my adoption. For the last 16 years, Mum and Dad have been saying the same thing on behalf of me and I’ve been saying for myself for the last nine years yet nothing has changed.”

Richard, who has not been in contact with his birth mother, *Jane, since 2020, told the court that if he wanted to make contact, “that would be up to me to decide and only me’’.

He accepted his Anglo-Australian birth father did not wish to see him.

His foster parents did not learn of Richard’s Aboriginal status until he was seven, five years after he joined the family. His foster parents supported his cultural awareness education but Justice Stevenson said they faced some difficulty to meet his cultural needs, given Richard’s lack of desire to engage in cultural activities.

“I agree that it is important to allow Richard autonomy in relation to his choice of whether or not to engage in such cultural activities,’’ the judge said.

The Aboriginal consultant said that at Richard’s age, he has the capacity to self identify how he chooses “and should be not be pressured into justifying this to anyone.’

“[Richard] has contributed to his own cultural plan, has sought his own mentor and is comfortable with his own knowledge about his culture and is open to learning more, in a time and place that is comfortable for him, and this should be encouraged and valued.”

Justice Stevenson said he understood that for many Indigenous people, adoption of an Aboriginal child by non Aboriginal people “is a contentious matter.”

He said that many peak Indigenous bodies oppose the process, and noted the Aboriginal child placement principle which says that children should, as a priority and where possible, be placed with kin or community.

“The Court respects the views that Aboriginal people have expressed about the process of adoption and I respect the views that Jane has expressed in this case,’’ he said.

“I nonetheless concluded that Richard’s best interests, which are the paramount consideration, required that an adoption order be made and that, particularly now that Richard is an adult, the upholding of Richard’s dignity required that his wish that he be adopted be granted."
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #42 - Nov 28th, 2023 at 8:56am
 
Aussie wrote on Sep 18th, 2023 at 12:49pm:
Quote:
'An Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander is a person of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who identifies as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander and is accepted as such by the community in which he or she lives'

All bow to the mighty Aussie. 

I coined that expression around 1972/73 at a Meeting of local Abos having a dispute about what an Abo was at the Civic Centre Bundaberg and it was recorded by an ABC Crew headed by a young journo turk called Kerry O'Brien.

Your evidence of this claim?

Definition of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person.
According to s51 (25) of the High Court of Australia (1983):
"An Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person, is a person
of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent who identifies
as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander and is accepted as
such by the community in which he or she lives".


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Frank
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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #43 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 7:42am
 
Universities are undercutting workplace standards by fast-tracking the careers of some Indigenous academics, a new study concludes.

The provocative Close the Gap Research paper, published by a leading Indigenous organisation, warns that well-intentioned diversity and inclusion targets “can come at a cost’’.

“It is difficult to see how a two-tier system with lower expectations applied based on publicly declared racial heritage benefits the pursuit of high quality scholarship, deep expertise, and research excellence that universities claim to value,’’ it says.

“Political or ideological objectives should not have a bearing on minimum standards for academic performance.’’

The research paper states that “for many Aboriginal academics at senior levels, Australian universities seem to be undermining the minimum standards set out in their Enterprise Agreements, policies, and guidelines’’.


Its research fellow, Samara McPhedran, who holds degrees in psychology and law, analysed the qualifications and experience of 118 senior Aboriginal academics working across 37 universities, and compared them to 118 non-Indigenous academics in similar roles.

Her study found 10 Indigenous academics had been appointed at a senior level before receiving their PhD, including some appointed a decade before completing a doctorate. Only one non-Indigenous academic had been appointed to a senior role before receiving a PhD.

The study found non-Indigenous academics had to wait twice as long as Indigenous academics, on average, for a promotion from Level D to the leadership Level E.

Aboriginal academics had published an average of 39 ­papers, compared to 101 for non-Indigenous academics.

The study found that “diversity and inclusion targets that ­emphasise the appointment and promotion of Aboriginal academics may be influencing employment decisions and creating a culture of low expectations’’.

“Appointment of Aboriginal-identifying academics is associated with lower track record expectations and, particularly in recent years, fast-tracking relative to non-Aboriginal academics,’’ it says.

“This raises serious questions about the appearance of universities not applying equivalent standards to all academics, irres­pective of identity.’’

The study was prompted by The Australian’s revelation that Queensland University of Technology vice-chancellor Margaret Sheil had abolished merit-based appointments in favour of a “more inclusive suitability assessment’’ in hiring policies last year.

The research paper states that “adopting lower expectations for Aboriginal academics appointed to senior levels, relative to non-Aboriginal academics, carries ­notable risks for individuals and institutions’’.

“Do universities wish to create divisions between staff because of perceptions of inequitable race-based treatment?’’ it concludes.

“Do they seek to erode public confidence that the government funding given to universities is being used to appoint the most appropriately qualified individuals?’’

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/indigenous/diversity-targets-cut-univers...

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Re: Who might be an Aboriginal?
Reply #44 - Apr 3rd, 2024 at 9:03pm
 
Well - Professor Plankton is an anthropologist - she identified some artefacts in the NT and got a doctorate from some unheard of little college at the tip of a narrow promontory for doing so....

"Now this is a fish spear.......... this is a cooking stone used in a fire ......  this is a woven basket .......  this is a sacred Akubra hat....."
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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