Australian Politics Forum - The submarine fiasco continues.

Brian Ross

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #45 - Aug 12^th, 2023 at 9:34pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 8:47pm:

Belgarion wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 10:33am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

On the contrary - I could set a much better military strategy than
the halfwits running our defense here.

For a start I wouldn't spend $40 billion each on $5 billion subs
that won't arrive for 15 years or more. Roll Eyes

OK, can you outline your strategy?

First of all -
Australia should point out to the USA and China that they could
save a lot of money if they both agreed to limit their arms manufacturing.
That's how the old SALT treaties worked and needs to be applied to
conventional arms and armies.

No one even talks about that. Roll Eyes

SALT and START treaties only came about because the US hit financial trouble in the 1960s because of it's insane commitment to the Vietnam War. If that hadn't happened they would have kept on churning out nukes. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #46 - Aug 12^th, 2023 at 9:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 9:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 8:47pm:

Belgarion wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 10:33am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

On the contrary - I could set a much better military strategy than
the halfwits running our defense here.

For a start I wouldn't spend $40 billion each on $5 billion subs
that won't arrive for 15 years or more. Roll Eyes

OK, can you outline your strategy?

First of all -
Australia should point out to the USA and China that they could
save a lot of money if they both agreed to limit their arms manufacturing.
That's how the old SALT treaties worked and needs to be applied to
conventional arms and armies.

No one even talks about that. Roll Eyes

SALT and START treaties only came about because the US hit financial trouble in the 1960s because of it's insane commitment to the Vietnam War. If that hadn't happened they would have kept on churning out nukes. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Brian,
get your history straight first.
At the height of the cold war each side had over 30,000 nuclear weapons.
It was an obvious waste of money.
China got through the cold war with 12 nuclear weapons. Tsk tsk tsk ... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 44333	Re: The submarine fiasco continues. Reply #47 - Aug 12^th, 2023 at 10:29pm Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk...
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 44333	Re: The submarine fiasco continues. Reply #48 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk...
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Bobby.

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #49 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Dear Brian,
many blessings.

My strategy involves copying Israel's strategy:
Buy weapons only when really necessary and
design and manufacture our own weapons here in Australia as much as possible.
That uses our money in our economy and helps to retain a sovereign advantage.
Some costs could be offset by selling weapon systems to our Allies.

More to follow.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #50 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:38pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Dear Brian,
many blessings.

My strategy involves copying Israel's strategy:
Buy weapons only when really necessary and
design and manufacture our own weapons here in Australia as much as possible.
That uses our money in our economy and helps to retain a sovereign advantage.
Some costs could be offset by selling weapon systems to our Allies.

More to follow.

Make something here instead of buying it off the rack. How terrible that is Cheesy

LOL

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"All of the arab states have said we will have peace with Israel when there is a state of Palestine as a UN member state and properly constituted." - Jeffrey Sachs.

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Brian Ross

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #51 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:52pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Dear Brian,
many blessings.

My strategy involves copying Israel's strategy:
Buy weapons only when really necessary and
design and manufacture our own weapons here in Australia as much as possible.
That uses our money in our economy and helps to retain a sovereign advantage.
Some costs could be offset by selling weapon systems to our Allies.

More to follow.

So, in otherwords, you are copying the present strategy employed by the present Government, Bobby? No difference, Australia is seeking to manufacture it's own weapons and would like to sell them to it's allies. However, our weapons tend to be expensive because of differences in costs because of differences in exchanges. And there you were, proclaiming how great your strategy was compared to the existing strategy... Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #52 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:56pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:38pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Dear Brian,
many blessings.

My strategy involves copying Israel's strategy:
Buy weapons only when really necessary and
design and manufacture our own weapons here in Australia as much as possible.
That uses our money in our economy and helps to retain a sovereign advantage.
Some costs could be offset by selling weapon systems to our Allies.

More to follow.

Make something here instead of buying it off the rack. How terrible that is Cheesy

LOL

Tell that to the Liberal/Country coalition which proclaimed that it preferred all weapons to be manufactured overseas, rather than manufactured here. They then learnt that they would lose South Australia because it was the Defence State, heavily reliant on defence industries, just as it used to be on white goods back in the days when we used to make things, hey? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #53 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:59pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Dear Brian,
many blessings.

My strategy involves copying Israel's strategy:
Buy weapons only when really necessary and
design and manufacture our own weapons here in Australia as much as possible.
That uses our money in our economy and helps to retain a sovereign advantage.
Some costs could be offset by selling weapon systems to our Allies.

More to follow.

So, in otherwords, you are copying the present strategy employed by the present Government, Bobby? No difference, Australia is seeking to manufacture it's own weapons and would like to sell them to it's allies. However, our weapons tend to be expensive because of differences in costs because of differences in exchanges. And there you were, proclaiming how great your strategy was compared to the existing strategy... Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

We do so but only on a small scale.
We buy just about everything from overseas at inflated prices from the military industrial complex.
We buy things like a bolt or a nut for $100 that you could buy at Bunnings for $2.
We're being ripped off.

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whiteknight Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8630 melbourne Gender:	Re: The submarine fiasco continues. Reply #54 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:09pm Well said Bobby, also consider this, how many time does Australia buy thing from overseas not fit for purpose?.
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Bobby.

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #55 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm

whiteknight wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:09pm:

Well said Bobby, also consider this, how many time does Australia buy thing from overseas not fit for purpose?. Sad

Thanks Sir Crook:
yes - what about those helicopters?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66352770

Australia grounds MRH-90 helicopter fleet after crash

Australia's army chief says the military is grounding a fleet of military helicopters after a crash left four crew members missing.

Lt Gen Simon Stuart said none of the army's 45 MRH-90 Taipan helicopters would be flown again until they were found to be safe.

The crash took place during a US-Australian military exercise off Lindeman Island on Friday night.

Australia has previously grounded its Taipans for safety reasons.

"We are not flying the MRH-90 today and won't until we think it is safe to do so," Gen Stuart told reporters in Sydney on Sunday.

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whiteknight Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8630 melbourne Gender:	Re: The submarine fiasco continues. Reply #56 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:23pm Yes Bobby that's right. Also what about the Bushmasters, was there not a problem with the brakes a while ago. Has it been corrected?.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 111593 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The submarine fiasco continues. Reply #57 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:26pm whiteknight wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:23pm: Yes Bobby that's right. Also what about the Bushmasters, was there not a problem with the brakes a while ago. Has it been corrected?. I dunno - at least they were made here.
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Belgarion

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #58 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:29pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Dear Brian,
many blessings.

My strategy involves copying Israel's strategy:
Buy weapons only when really necessary and
design and manufacture our own weapons here in Australia as much as possible.
That uses our money in our economy and helps to retain a sovereign advantage.
Some costs could be offset by selling weapon systems to our Allies.

More to follow.

You do understand that this SSN deal is all about developing the ability to construct these boats here and eventually to design our own? We certainly could do more about local development and manufacture, but we do have a fairly healthy arms export industry, no 11 in the world in 2020.
https://globelynews.com/world/world-top-arms-exporting-countries/

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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Bobby.

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Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Reply #59 - Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:34pm

Belgarion wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Dear Brian,
many blessings.

My strategy involves copying Israel's strategy:
Buy weapons only when really necessary and
design and manufacture our own weapons here in Australia as much as possible.
That uses our money in our economy and helps to retain a sovereign advantage.
Some costs could be offset by selling weapon systems to our Allies.

More to follow.

You do understand that this SSN deal is all about developing the ability to construct these boats here and eventually to design our own? We certainly could do more about local development and manufacture, but we do have a fairly healthy arms export industry, no 11 in the world in 2020.
https://globelynews.com/world/world-top-arms-exporting-countries/

It says
11. Australia — $396 million

I'm surprised it's that much.

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