Australian Politics Forum - Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes

Belgarion

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5682
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #15 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:23am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:13am:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:34am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 9:58am:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 9:52am:

making a mountain out of a molehill.

So you'd agree that the same could be said of the ADF's case against David McBride?

Not the same thing. McBride was a serving ADF member when he supplied classified information to the media. This 'ScoJo' is a civilian who is making statements about his own time in Afghanistan and things he has heard second hand.

Another one who didn't watch the whole video.

So-called "machine-gun Dave" was involved in the killing of 2 Afghani police officers and admitted to lying to the ADFIS, testifying that the officers were not in uniform (which they were).

You don't grasp the concept of 'serving member'.

Back to top

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 15129
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #16 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:45am

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:23am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:13am:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:34am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 9:58am:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 9:52am:

making a mountain out of a molehill.

So you'd agree that the same could be said of the ADF's case against David McBride?

Not the same thing. McBride was a serving ADF member when he supplied classified information to the media. This 'ScoJo' is a civilian who is making statements about his own time in Afghanistan and things he has heard second hand.

Another one who didn't watch the whole video.

So-called "machine-gun Dave" was involved in the killing of 2 Afghani police officers and admitted to lying to the ADFIS, testifying that the officers were not in uniform (which they were).

You don't grasp the concept of 'serving member'.

Is it a legitimate justification for perjury?

Back to top

IP Logged

Belgarion

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5682
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #17 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:29pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:45am:

Is it a legitimate justification for perjury?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. McBride has been charged with passing classified information to the media. This former soldier has stated on a podcast that he lied to ADFIS investigators.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury.

B. This person is no longer a serving member therefore he cannot be charged with anything under the DFDA as the time limitations for preferring charges has run out. If he is to be charged with anything there will need to be an entirely new investigation conducted by AFP, not the ADF.

I don't know anything of this blokes history however I get a feeling from the little I saw on the podcast he may be a wannabe talking himself up.

Back to top

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 15129
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #18 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:44pm

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:29pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:45am:

Is it a legitimate justification for perjury?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. McBride has been charged with passing classified information to the media. This former soldier has stated on a podcast that he lied to ADFIS investigators.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury.

B. This person is no longer a serving member therefore he cannot be charged with anything under the DFDA as the time limitations for preferring charges has run out. If he is to be charged with anything there will need to be an entirely new investigation conducted by AFP, not the ADF.

I don't know anything of this blokes history however I get a feeling from the little I saw on the podcast he may be a wannabe talking himself up.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury, eh. So a called witness to an ADF investigation is not sworn or expected to tell the truth, then.

B. Show the section of the act where there are limitations on liability if a former serving member admits to lying to an ADF investigation.

Back to top

IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 52770 Gender:	Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes Reply #19 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:48pm Oh! Meister Eccy has thrown down a pair of Aces.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 87686 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes Reply #20 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 1:11pm Couldn't be bothered.
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Belgarion

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5682
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #21 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 1:32pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:44pm:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:29pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:45am:

Is it a legitimate justification for perjury?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. McBride has been charged with passing classified information to the media. This former soldier has stated on a podcast that he lied to ADFIS investigators.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury.

B. This person is no longer a serving member therefore he cannot be charged with anything under the DFDA as the time limitations for preferring charges has run out. If he is to be charged with anything there will need to be an entirely new investigation conducted by AFP, not the ADF.

I don't know anything of this blokes history however I get a feeling from the little I saw on the podcast he may be a wannabe talking himself up.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury, eh. So a called witness to an ADF investigation is not sworn or expected to tell the truth, then.

No lying to investigators is not perjury as statements are not made under oath. Oaths come later at a Board of Inquiry or a trial.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:44pm:

B. Show the section of the act where there are limitations on liability if a former serving member admits to lying to an ADF investigation.

DFDA S.96 deals with time limitations, however as lying to an investigators is not an offence in itself the applicable charge would be Prejudicial Conduct as defined in S.60. As this charge attracts a maximum penalty of 3 months imprisonment S.96(6) will apply.

Back to top

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 15129
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #22 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 1:32pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:44pm:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:29pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:45am:

Is it a legitimate justification for perjury?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. McBride has been charged with passing classified information to the media. This former soldier has stated on a podcast that he lied to ADFIS investigators.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury.

B. This person is no longer a serving member therefore he cannot be charged with anything under the DFDA as the time limitations for preferring charges has run out. If he is to be charged with anything there will need to be an entirely new investigation conducted by AFP, not the ADF.

I don't know anything of this blokes history however I get a feeling from the little I saw on the podcast he may be a wannabe talking himself up.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury, eh. So a called witness to an ADF investigation is not sworn or expected to tell the truth, then.

No lying to investigators is not perjury as statements are not made under oath. Oaths come later at a Board of Inquiry or a trial.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:44pm:

B. Show the section of the act where there are limitations on liability if a former serving member admits to lying to an ADF investigation.

DFDA S.96 deals with time limitations, however as lying to an investigators is not an offence in itself the applicable charge would be Prejudicial Conduct as defined in S.60. As this charge attracts a maximum penalty of 3 months imprisonment S.96(6) will apply.

OK, I'll take you at your word.

It's noted that any former soldiers and killers need only look over their shoulders for a limited time before they are free from prosecution for any crimes they may have committed- and, of course, free from culpability from the subsequent providing of false information to investigators with the help of other soldiers, if they were witnesses, by their conspiring to pervert the course of an investigation's outcome.

Back to top

IP Logged

Belgarion

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5682
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #23 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 8:23pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 1:32pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:44pm:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:29pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:45am:

Is it a legitimate justification for perjury?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. McBride has been charged with passing classified information to the media. This former soldier has stated on a podcast that he lied to ADFIS investigators.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury.

B. This person is no longer a serving member therefore he cannot be charged with anything under the DFDA as the time limitations for preferring charges has run out. If he is to be charged with anything there will need to be an entirely new investigation conducted by AFP, not the ADF.

I don't know anything of this blokes history however I get a feeling from the little I saw on the podcast he may be a wannabe talking himself up.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury, eh. So a called witness to an ADF investigation is not sworn or expected to tell the truth, then.

No lying to investigators is not perjury as statements are not made under oath. Oaths come later at a Board of Inquiry or a trial.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:44pm:

B. Show the section of the act where there are limitations on liability if a former serving member admits to lying to an ADF investigation.

DFDA S.96 deals with time limitations, however as lying to an investigators is not an offence in itself the applicable charge would be Prejudicial Conduct as defined in S.60. As this charge attracts a maximum penalty of 3 months imprisonment S.96(6) will apply.

OK, I'll take you at your word.

It's noted that any former soldiers and killers need only look over their shoulders for a limited time before they are free from prosecution for any crimes they may have committed- and, of course, free from culpability from the subsequent providing of false information to investigators with the help of other soldiers, if they were witnesses, by their conspiring to pervert the course of an investigation's outcome.

Depends. The above relates to charges that the ADF can bring. If these men are charged with anything realted to 'war crimes' it will be the federal government that prefers the charges not the ADF.

Back to top

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 15129
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #24 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 8:44pm

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 8:23pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 2:57pm:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 1:32pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:44pm:

Belgarion wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:29pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:45am:

Is it a legitimate justification for perjury?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. McBride has been charged with passing classified information to the media. This former soldier has stated on a podcast that he lied to ADFIS investigators.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury.

B. This person is no longer a serving member therefore he cannot be charged with anything under the DFDA as the time limitations for preferring charges has run out. If he is to be charged with anything there will need to be an entirely new investigation conducted by AFP, not the ADF.

I don't know anything of this blokes history however I get a feeling from the little I saw on the podcast he may be a wannabe talking himself up.

A. Lying to investigators is not perjury, eh. So a called witness to an ADF investigation is not sworn or expected to tell the truth, then.

No lying to investigators is not perjury as statements are not made under oath. Oaths come later at a Board of Inquiry or a trial.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 12:44pm:

B. Show the section of the act where there are limitations on liability if a former serving member admits to lying to an ADF investigation.

DFDA S.96 deals with time limitations, however as lying to an investigators is not an offence in itself the applicable charge would be Prejudicial Conduct as defined in S.60. As this charge attracts a maximum penalty of 3 months imprisonment S.96(6) will apply.

OK, I'll take you at your word.

It's noted that any former soldiers and killers need only look over their shoulders for a limited time before they are free from prosecution for any crimes they may have committed- and, of course, free from culpability from the subsequent providing of false information to investigators with the help of other soldiers, if they were witnesses, by their conspiring to pervert the course of an investigation's outcome.

Depends. The above relates to charges that the ADF can bring. If these men are charged with anything realted to 'war crimes' it will be the federal government that prefers the charges not the ADF.

Well then, it tends to relegate ADF investigations to irrelevancy. Witnesses are not bound to tell the truth, (do they sign their testimony as, to the best of their knowledge, true and accurate?), so an investigation's outcomes may be nothing more than concoctions and perversions of the truth which conveniently absolve ADF personnel of any wrongdoing.

Back to top

IP Logged

Boris Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4376 Gender:	Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes Reply #25 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:13pm Brian Ross wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:05am: Boris wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:19am: C'est la guerre .. Spoken like a true RWJW, Matty. I suppose you think any effort to investigate wrong doing against Muslims is misguided? Tsk, tsk, tsk... War is Hell - William Tecumseh Sherman
Back to top	IP Logged

Jasin

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 52770
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #26 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:25pm

Boris wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:05am:

Boris wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:19am:

C'est la guerre ..

Spoken like a true RWJW, Matty. I suppose you think any effort to investigate wrong doing against Muslims is misguided? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

War is Hell - William Tecumseh Sherman

Pandemics are far worse.

Back to top

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 51464
Gender: male

Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes
Reply #27 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:26pm

Boris wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 11:05am:

Boris wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:19am:

C'est la guerre ..

Spoken like a true RWJW, Matty. I suppose you think any effort to investigate wrong doing against Muslims is misguided? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

War is Hell - William Tecumseh Sherman

Hell is other people like Bbwian.
Sartre, No Exit

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 15129 Gender:	Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes Reply #28 - Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:55pm War is where truth goes to die.
Back to top	IP Logged

Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 51464 Gender:	Re: Australian Soldiers Admitting to War Crimes Reply #29 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 12:15am MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 10:55pm: War is where truth goes to die. You sound like a Lennonist.
Back to top	Estragon: I can’t go on like this. Vladimir: That’s what you think. IP Logged