Australian Politics Forum - The Voice Kool-Aid

ProudKangaroo

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #150 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:36pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Well ...there IS strong majority support to 'close the gap' among the Oz population, so you might need to start presenting some ideas on how to close the gap, if you want to avoid the voice being added to the constitution.

We've tried that, but he keeps trying to further dehumanise our Indigenous population and he has no interest in closing the gap, he's made it clear they already have too much and are above their standing in his opinion.

This is the biggest part of the problem and a key indicator of his true motivation.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #151 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:54pm

I'd like to hear all your ideas on how to 'close the gaps' .... so far all I hear is platitudes ....... give 'em a job... (snores)... been there done that .... NEXT ....

The rate of 16:1 Indigenous women killed annually is down to 12:1 - but I think that is more the workings of propaganda than anything else... (we also hear about 'wage gap' but the facts show the gap is actually the other way ... oh, well- facts in the way of a good bullshitting to suit The Cause and The Agenda) ...

FFS - we make a national heroine of some bint who sent her son off with his crazy father who threw him off a bridge - my god how that money rolls in and rolls in .... same with some dopey sheila who gets into the sack with her teacher and somehow 'survives' a good shagging .... but we hardly hear that out of one woman a week = 52 or so a year - 48 are likely to be Indigenous... that out of hundreds of young people who go missing annually - the vast percentage come from 3% of the population.... and so on and so on...

Tell me about closing some gaps.... without the mealy-mouthed platitudes.....

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« Last Edit: Dec 16^th, 2022 at 1:00pm by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #152 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:31pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:54pm:

I'd like to hear all your ideas on how to 'close the gaps' .... so far all I hear is platitudes ....... give 'em a job... (snores)... been there done that .... NEXT ....

Well... Pearson and I accept MMT and the Job Guarantee, but most aren't aware of MTT, and CIS/IPA ideologues actively oppose MMT.

Yet obviously above poverty participation in the economy is the beginning of closing the gap, because the demoralization of mere survival - often in states of chronic alcoholism, and perpetuated on poverty level dole payments, will not and cannot close the gap.

By all reports there is a growing mental health problem among white youth who are facing the insecurity of the gig economy, falling housing ownership rates, and the climate change issue (though the latter might just be a reflection of dissatisfaction with the current state of neoliberal capitalism in general).

So...your "go get a job" mantra is obviously simplistic and hence inadequate to deal with the problems facing white and black young people in today's economy in which home ownership rates are falling.

Quote:

The rate of 16:1 Indigenous women killed....

etc. etc ...your anti-feminist tirades are irrelevant to closing the gap, even if "women should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen"

Quote:

Tell me about closing some gaps.... without the mealy-mouthed platitudes.....

The JG is not a mealy-mouthed platitude, whereas your CIS/IPA neo-liberal ideologies are self-serving 'winner takes all' free-market monstrosities.

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« Last Edit: Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:39pm by thegreatdivide »

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #153 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 5:39pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:31pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:54pm:

I'd like to hear all your ideas on how to 'close the gaps' .... so far all I hear is platitudes ....... give 'em a job... (snores)... been there done that .... NEXT ....

Well... Pearson and I accept MMT and the Job Guarantee, but most aren't aware of MTT, and CIS/IPA ideologues actively oppose MMT.

Yet obviously above poverty participation in the economy is the beginning of closing the gap, because the demoralization of mere survival - often in states of chronic alcoholism, and perpetuated on poverty level dole payments, will not and cannot close the gap.

By all reports there is a growing mental health problem among white youth who are facing the insecurity of the gig economy, falling housing ownership rates, and the climate change issue (though the latter might just be a reflection of dissatisfaction with the current state of neoliberal capitalism in general).

So...your "go get a job" mantra is obviously simplistic and hence inadequate to deal with the problems facing white and black young people in today's economy in which home ownership rates are falling.

Quote:

The rate of 16:1 Indigenous women killed....

etc. etc ...your anti-feminist tirades are irrelevant to closing the gap, even if "women should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen"

This shows the true depth of your understanding... WTF is 'anti-feminist' about mentioning the comparative rate of Indigenous women killed... 48 of 52 annually are likely to be Indigenous.... you wouldn't know a true Egalitarian if you fell over one... are you autistic or simply bound up by your 'education' of relentless theory?

Quote:

Tell me about closing some gaps.... without the mealy-mouthed platitudes.....

The JG is not a mealy-mouthed platitude, whereas your CIS/IPA neo-liberal ideologies are self-serving 'winner takes all' free-market monstrosities.

It's a mealy-mouthed platitude for several reasons - they won't turn up unless they feel like it - money for nothing... and it will do nothing to improve their self-esteem or their social intelligence... no lasting results will come of it, as shown by your fabulous CDEP... no skills zacuired and not work ethic acquired..... once the money stops so does everything else, as per your CDEP.

It's just money for jam and that's it... nothing at the end of the trail....no gulag of working in a trade at the end of that rail line... no lasting benefit to their community.... no motivation to change things for the better by running a garbage collection service or something, doing some trade work on homes etc... just let it all fall into disrepair...

I don't follow any ideology - only that of Truthtelling.... you, on the other hand, are a hardened Leftist of the semi-educated and limited experience type .... you actually seem to think these kinds of things will work other than to provide money for jam to feed the pokies and the grog shops...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #154 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 5:49pm

We have tried EVERYTHING that ProudKangaroo wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Well ...there IS strong majority support to 'close the gap' among the Oz population, so you might need to start presenting some ideas on how to close the gap, if you want to avoid the voice being added to the constitution.

We've tried that, but he keeps trying to further dehumanise our Indigenous population and he has no interest in closing the gap, he's made it clear they already have too much and are above their standing in his opinion.

This is the biggest part of the problem and a key indicator of his true motivation.

We have tried EVERYTHING that treat Aborigines as helpless bystanders and mere recipients in their own lives.
Time to try active agency: their own agency in their misery and their own agency in ending that misery.

Truth-telling requires nothing less.

No Aborigine is face down, drunk, in his gourmet witchetty grub pizza because of the First Fleet or wacism. Violence, neglect, rape, illiteracy, petrol sniffing, alcoholism, criminality, car theft have absolutely nothing to do with colonialism. If they did, ALL Aborigines would be doing them.
They don't.

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« Last Edit: Dec 16^th, 2022 at 5:54pm by Frank »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #155 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 6:03pm

Frank wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 5:49pm:

We have tried EVERYTHING that ProudKangaroo wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Well ...there IS strong majority support to 'close the gap' among the Oz population, so you might need to start presenting some ideas on how to close the gap, if you want to avoid the voice being added to the constitution.

We've tried that, but he keeps trying to further dehumanise our Indigenous population and he has no interest in closing the gap, he's made it clear they already have too much and are above their standing in his opinion.

This is the biggest part of the problem and a key indicator of his true motivation.

We have tried EVERYTHING that treat Aborigines as helpless bystanders and mere recipients in their own lives.

Indeed, and that is the problem.

As Keating said: "we are the ones who smashed their culture"....and have since then insisted on treating them as helpless bystanders

Quote:

Time to try active agency: their own agency in their misery and their own agency in ending that misery.

Truth-telling requires nothing less.

And truth telling requires looking at the plight of the long term white unemployed, before the nation can enable blacks to regain their own agency, because blacks are even more socially and generationally disadvantaged in the modern economy than whites.

Quote:

No Aborigine is face down, drunk, in his gourmet witchetty grub pizza because of the First Fleet or wacism. Violence, neglect, rape, illiteracy, petrol sniffing, alcoholism, criminality, car theft have absolutely nothing to do with colonialism. If they did, ALL Aborigines would be doing them. They don't.

Refuted above: "we smashed their culture" (straight talking from Keating), now the task is to clean up the mess from that smash, to enable prosperous participation in the modern world.

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« Last Edit: Dec 16^th, 2022 at 6:10pm by thegreatdivide »

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #156 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 7:10pm

What part of the culture of wandering hunter gatherers did they lose? What part of that is 'cultural' as in inescapably binding and spiritual etc?

Most seem to have transitioned (barp - buzz word) well into houses, dole money etc, Macca's and KFC, cars, motor bikes, clothing, boats, guns, fishing gear, plane flights, medical standards, shoes, city and town living, overseas trips, and so on and so on and so on... the only ways they don't seem to have transitioned (barp) is away from petty tribalism, violence, and demands for everything on the basis of having been here first....

Tell me all about this 'culture' that Keating says 'we' smashed...... how much did he personally pay into the compensation fund? How many did he employ in his business ventures?

If a 'culture' was so easy to destroy, it wasn't meant to exist beyond the time when it was the only one available... sorry 'bout that ... and I certainly never smashed any of it for them and certainly no more than they ever did with their petty tribal wars and such .................. what's this 'we', White Man?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #157 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 8:21pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 7:10pm:

What part of the culture of wandering hunter gatherers did they lose?

the lot: "we smashed it", as correctly observed by Keating, without demanding that a burden of guilt be borne by today's Australians.

Quote:

What part of that is 'cultural' as in inescapably binding and spiritual etc?

That is another question to be answered, in the required truth-telling, as part of closing the gap.

Quote:

Most seem to have transitioned (barp - buzz word) well into houses, dole money etc, Macca's and KFC, cars, motor bikes, clothing, boats, guns, fishing gear, plane flights, medical standards, shoes, city and town living, overseas trips, and so on and so on and so on..

"transitioned", but certainly not transitioned well, only a few have managed that...which is why we still need to close the gap.

Quote:

the only ways they don't seem to have transitioned (barp) is away from petty tribalism, violence, and demands for everything on the basis of having been here first....

Poverty does engender violence; recall Trump's words re US blacks: " you are living in poverty, your neighborhoods are like war zones" etc etc

Quote:

Tell me all about this 'culture' that Keating says 'we' smashed......

The h-g culture mentiond above.

Quote:

how much did he personally pay into the compensation fund? How many did he employ in his business ventures?

same as all of us, via taxes which have mostly been wasted except for a period on the CDEP which reduced alcoholism and crime in black communities.

Quote:

If a 'culture' was so easy to destroy, it wasn't meant to exist beyond the time when it was the only one available... sorry 'bout that ...

well, yes, that's why guilt shouldn't be part of closing the gap today (despite the horrors of past wars and genocide)

Quote:

and I certainly never smashed any of it for them and certainly no more than they ever did with their petty tribal wars and such .................. what's this 'we', White Man?

I already absolved you of any guilt for the "smashed culture", above.

What you are now responsible for is joining the nation's efforts to close the gap.

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Boris

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #158 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:27pm

ProudKangaroo wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Well ...there IS strong majority support to 'close the gap' among the Oz population, so you might need to start presenting some ideas on how to close the gap, if you want to avoid the voice being added to the constitution.

We've tried that, but he keeps trying to further dehumanise our Indigenous population and he has no interest in closing the gap, he's made it clear they already have too much and are above their standing in his opinion.

This is the biggest part of the problem and a key indicator of his true motivation.

I lived and worked in the NT for many years and was a first responder to their extreme violence.

Do not tell me you know me - you have not been where I have been or seen what I have seen.

Look at the statistics for Violence - rape - assault - murder in the NT and tell me the Voice is going to fix it - it will not.

They are doing the dehumanising for themselves and don't need my help.

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Boris

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #159 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:29pm

This from an Indian Doctor

'I've never witnessed such horrific brutality': On tenth anniversary of gang rape that shocked the world, the doctor who tried to save victim's life reveals he is still traumatised.. as India still faces daily 'barbaric' sex crimes
Jyoti Singh, 23, was gang-raped by six men at the back of a bus in New Delhi
Dr Mahesh Misra, who treated Jyoti in hospital ten years ago, said in his 52 years as a medic, he had never witnessed such 'gruesome and unbelievable injuries'
Jyoti's death sparked nationwide protests and sent shockwaves through India
But ten years on, hundreds of women in the country are still raped every day

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11353131/On-tenth-anniversary-gang-rape...

I say exactly the same about the brutality I have seen Aborigines to to each other - especially women and children.

You Latte sipping Inner City Lefties will never understand anything.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #160 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:31pm

Boris wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:29pm:

This from an Indian Doctor

'I've never witnessed such horrific brutality': On tenth anniversary of gang rape that shocked the world, the doctor who tried to save victim's life reveals he is still traumatised.. as India still faces daily 'barbaric' sex crimes
Jyoti Singh, 23, was gang-raped by six men at the back of a bus in New Delhi
Dr Mahesh Misra, who treated Jyoti in hospital ten years ago, said in his 52 years as a medic, he had never witnessed such 'gruesome and unbelievable injuries'
Jyoti's death sparked nationwide protests and sent shockwaves through India
But ten years on, hundreds of women in the country are still raped every day

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11353131/On-tenth-anniversary-gang-rape...

I say exactly the same about the brutality I have seen Aborigines to to each other - especially women and children.

You Latte sipping Inner City Lefties will never understand anything.

Has Donald Trump moved to India? Undecided

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Boris Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4376 Gender:	Re: The Voice Kool-Aid Reply #161 - Dec 17^th, 2022 at 5:37am Like that Indian Doctor I am traumatised by what I have seen. You Latte sipping Inner City Lefties will never understand anything.
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ProudKangaroo

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #162 - Dec 17^th, 2022 at 8:51am

Boris wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:27pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Well ...there IS strong majority support to 'close the gap' among the Oz population, so you might need to start presenting some ideas on how to close the gap, if you want to avoid the voice being added to the constitution.

We've tried that, but he keeps trying to further dehumanise our Indigenous population and he has no interest in closing the gap, he's made it clear they already have too much and are above their standing in his opinion.

This is the biggest part of the problem and a key indicator of his true motivation.

I lived and worked in the NT for many years and was a first responder to their extreme violence.

Do not tell me you know me - you have not been where I have been or seen what I have seen.

Look at the statistics for Violence - rape - assault - murder in the NT and tell me the Voice is going to fix it - it will not.

They are doing the dehumanising for themselves and don't need my help.

Those committing those actions, true enough. They don't need any help and it's unforgivable.

But the fact that you see it perfectly normal and accurate to claim this is representative of all Indigenous Australians is what people are talking about, and highlighting in your behaviour.

Boris wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:29pm:

This from an Indian Doctor

'I've never witnessed such horrific brutality': On tenth anniversary of gang rape that shocked the world, the doctor who tried to save victim's life reveals he is still traumatised.. as India still faces daily 'barbaric' sex crimes
Jyoti Singh, 23, was gang-raped by six men at the back of a bus in New Delhi
Dr Mahesh Misra, who treated Jyoti in hospital ten years ago, said in his 52 years as a medic, he had never witnessed such 'gruesome and unbelievable injuries'
Jyoti's death sparked nationwide protests and sent shockwaves through India
But ten years on, hundreds of women in the country are still raped every day

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11353131/On-tenth-anniversary-gang-rape...

I say exactly the same about the brutality I have seen Aborigines to to each other - especially women and children.

You Latte sipping Inner City Lefties will never understand anything.

Next you'll be telling us all people of Indian decent are child rapists and murderers because you've decided to highlight some of the most inexcusable and unforgivable actions from members of their population.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #163 - Dec 17^th, 2022 at 11:22am

"But the fact that you see it perfectly normal and accurate to claim this is representative of all Indigenous Australians is what people are talking about, and highlighting in your behaviour."

Nobody says that - but when the facts and figures show a picture - there are clearly problems that need to be resolved ... your kind grasp at this false interpretation - that people who criticise and comment fairly on realities are somehow attacking the whole group ... very short-sighted thinking of you - and for a good reason - nothing else will sustain your stated position.

So you will continue to defend this group as a whole, and while they are sheltering under the protection of society's prohibitions on criticising faults within that group - they will never improve their ways. As I said - you are part of the problem - not the solution.

Can you show us the tattoo on the forehead of the bloke who comes in the door looking for a job - the one that tells us he does not do meth and ICE and does not beat his missus and starve his kids while hitting the booze and won't just not show up for work but rather go fishing or something or off with his mates smoking dope etc?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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ProudKangaroo

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #164 - Dec 17^th, 2022 at 1:47pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 11:22am:

"But the fact that you see it perfectly normal and accurate to claim this is representative of all Indigenous Australians is what people are talking about, and highlighting in your behaviour."

Nobody says that

Boris wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 8:41am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 8:30am:

In case there has been some miscommunication, you're saying that ALL Indigenous Australians do these things you claim, not just their bad elements like in any community?

Yes

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