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Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler (Read 705 times)
Bobby.
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #30 - Sep 29th, 2022 at 11:07am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 1:47pm:
Which comes first - The chicken or the Time Traveller?

The night before a man is to step into a time machine, to travel back in time by 1 month, he eats a roast chicken.

The next day, he travels back in time by one month.

If the chicken he ate the night before is still alive when he gets to the past, do the chicken's atoms and molecules evaporate from his system, or does the chicken spontaneously disappear?



Silly question -
you can only travel forward in time not backwards.
Even then you would have to travel close to the speed of light
to go forwards in time which is almost impossible.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #31 - Sep 29th, 2022 at 11:13am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 11:06am:
This is a pointless exercise in a nonsensical hypothetical.

If one was to utilise a time machine to travel back in time, then
the time machine would not be there—would not then exist—in
order for you to use it in the future.

So by travelling back in time, you effectively remove any means
of doing so in your real-life future.    Or don't you?

"Time machines" are merely science fiction fantasies.


Maybe a simpler explanation for why time travel into the past cannot happen is because the past doesn't exist - there is no place to travel to.
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Carl D
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #32 - Sep 29th, 2022 at 11:22am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 11:13am:
Maybe a simpler explanation for why time travel into the past cannot happen is because the past doesn't exist - there is no place to travel to.


The Langoliers

I remember the TV miniseries scared the living daylights out of me when I first saw it in 1995 (despite the cheesy CGI effects).

Shocked
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"Masks are sand in the gears of the economy" - some f-wit pollie or big business CEO.
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #33 - Sep 29th, 2022 at 11:31am
 
Carl D wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 11:22am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 11:13am:
Maybe a simpler explanation for why time travel into the past cannot happen is because the past doesn't exist - there is no place to travel to.


The Langoliers

I remember the TV miniseries scared the living daylights out of me when I first saw it in 1995 (despite the cheesy CGI effects).


Memory creates an illusion of the past as existing independently from the present - as if it were an objective place to which you can physically return.
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chimera
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #34 - Sep 29th, 2022 at 12:16pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 9:56am:
chicken has not yet been born either.

Have you got another question for me?

Meantime I've got a chook and some potatoes to roast in the oven 🤭





You cook an under-age, month old chicken at under .1 kg? How many hours/ month are you cooking?
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chimera
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #35 - Sep 29th, 2022 at 12:21pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 11:06am:
travel back in time, then
the time machine would not be there—would not then exist—in
order for you to use it in the future.


Harvey Norman has them, 60 months nothing to pay. At month 59 you go back to him and get another. Or wait a month and use the old one.
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Carl D
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #36 - Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:28pm
 
One of the funniest scenes from The Big Bang Theory.

Sheldon going over the "Roommate Agreement" with Leonard.



Grin
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #37 - Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:59pm
 
Probably the most exploitative of the illusion of the past are political leaders.

There's a well-worn path of political, rhetorical trickery to lull the populace into believing the past can be resurrected or reconstructed; let's say 'get-backism'.

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Frank
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #38 - Sep 29th, 2022 at 10:10pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:59pm:
Probably the most exploitative of the illusion of the past are political leaders.





Novelists. by far.

Politics is always downstream from culture.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #39 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 5:53am
 
In the past Stephen Hawking wrote his novel in Time. Simultaneously he claimed that time can run backwards but can't run backwards. Chickens can't. They can go down worm holes and the mathematician L Carroll went down a rabbit hole on opium. Black holes didn't exist but now do although Hawking radiation escapes.
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Frank
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #40 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:24am
 
"What if some day or night a demon were to steal into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: “This life as you now live and have lived it you will have to live once again and innumerable times again; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unspeakably small or great in your life must return to you, all in the same succession and sequence — even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself…

The eternal hourglass of existence is turned over again and again—and you with it, speck of dust!’ Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: ‘You are a god, and never have I heard anything more divine!’ If this thought were to gain possession of you, it would change you as you are, or perhaps crush you. The question in each and every thing, “do you want this once more and innumerable times more?""
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #41 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:38am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:24am:
"What if some day or night a demon were to steal into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: “This life as you now live and have lived it you will have to live once again and innumerable times again; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unspeakably small or great in your life must return to you, all in the same succession and sequence — even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself…

The eternal hourglass of existence is turned over again and again—and you with it, speck of dust!’ Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: ‘You are a god, and never have I heard anything more divine!’ If this thought were to gain possession of you, it would change you as you are, or perhaps crush you. The question in each and every thing, “do you want this once more and innumerable times more?""

I can intuit what Nietzsche would have thought of this, with a curmudgeon's personality, his unattractiveness to women, his syphilis and his final descent into madness.

Was his prescience of the 20th century, a land he would never inhabit, worth the pain?
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Frank
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #42 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:48am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:38am:
Frank wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:24am:
"What if some day or night a demon were to steal into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: “This life as you now live and have lived it you will have to live once again and innumerable times again; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unspeakably small or great in your life must return to you, all in the same succession and sequence — even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself…

The eternal hourglass of existence is turned over again and again—and you with it, speck of dust!’ Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: ‘You are a god, and never have I heard anything more divine!’ If this thought were to gain possession of you, it would change you as you are, or perhaps crush you. The question in each and every thing, “do you want this once more and innumerable times more?""

I can intuit what Nietzsche would have thought of this, with a curmudgeon's personality, his unattractiveness to women, his syphilis and his final descent into madness.

Was his prescience of the 20th century, a land he would never inhabit, worth the pain?

It's a thought experiment - like time travel - not a piece of biography.  And the biographical interpretation of ideas misses their point.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #43 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:51am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:48am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:38am:
Frank wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 9:24am:
"What if some day or night a demon were to steal into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: “This life as you now live and have lived it you will have to live once again and innumerable times again; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unspeakably small or great in your life must return to you, all in the same succession and sequence — even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself…

The eternal hourglass of existence is turned over again and again—and you with it, speck of dust!’ Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: ‘You are a god, and never have I heard anything more divine!’ If this thought were to gain possession of you, it would change you as you are, or perhaps crush you. The question in each and every thing, “do you want this once more and innumerable times more?""

I can intuit what Nietzsche would have thought of this, with a curmudgeon's personality, his unattractiveness to women, his syphilis and his final descent into madness.

Was his prescience of the 20th century, a land he would never inhabit, worth the pain?

It's a thought experiment - like time travel - not a piece of biography.  And the biographical interpretation of ideas misses their point.


Yet Nietzsche put it to us. I wonder why.

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Lisa Jones
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Re: Which comes first-The chicken or the Time Traveler
Reply #44 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 12:08pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 10:45am:
Carl D wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 10:37am:
The Time Machine (2002)
Jeremy Irons: Über-Morlock

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268695/characters/nm0000460

Quote:
Über-Morlock : We all have our time machines, don't we. Those that take us back are memories... And those that carry us forward, are dreams.


Absolutely true.

Memories are facsimiles of your perception and alter over time - they belong to the present.

The subjects in the memory do not have agency.


Try saying that to those suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder who find themselves replaying the same traumatic episode over and over and over again. And the perpetrator/s in those memories have agency in that they are the reason why there is such a constant replay of the same episode. Such memories are STUCK on replay and do not alter over time.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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