Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 35
Send Topic Print
The Australian Wars - Culture is Life (Read 9481 times)
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79540
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #165 - Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:38pm
 
Black Culture Good - White Culture Bad?  Black entitled™ to hate and hold grudge and demand and demand after losing war - White can only kow-tow?

...


Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10280
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #166 - Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:42pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:38pm:
Black Culture Good - White Culture Bad?  Black entitled™ to hate and hold grudge and demand and demand after losing war - White can only kow-tow?

[][]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e8/d5/aa/e8d5aa601cfe63f37bcb5daacf7f1982.jpg[][]


As I said, you're an indoctrinated old man.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79540
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #167 - Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:52pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:22pm:
You're a product of your generation - indoctrinated with an Australian history skewed to sanctify colonial settlement.

However, it's no different to the narrative all dominant cultures teach their adherents toward the subjugated. You're just not capable of seeing it as applying to aboriginal peoples regarding colonialism.



You are choosing to overlook the killings of Whites for little to no reason, including women and children,  while lauding the righteous killings by the Noble Blacks, and  condemning every retaliatory action take by the Whites?

What possible characteristic could it be of a 'dominant society' to simply look with an open mind at the events under scrutiny?

What about your (absurd) narrative if the ONLY discussion on national television was the murder of Whites by Blacks and the vilification of Blacks as a result?  What would be your reaction if the whole deal was focused on what the Blacks did to get the punishment they did, and not what the Whites did in response to murder etc?

Would it be the same?  If not ..... WHY NOT?

Truth-telling - works ALL ways.

Just culchah, is it?

THAT, my son - is why YOU are a product of YOUR generation that knows everything but knows nothing, and I am a product of impartial and unprejudiced reason.........

As I said before - if I were a 'product of my generation' (the really educated one) - why was it that until such time as discussion of these things became the big deal of the day (same as Lefty's madness about 'trannies'), I held only the view that in the past some terrible things were done (or in the case of the trannies they existed but had no impact on me) .... but never in my experience?

Again - so we just forget that - for example - the 'Appin Massacre' of fourteen indigenous followed the murders of more (at that stage) Whites, including several women and even more children uncounted in the reporting but stated as 'her children' meaning more than one ..... and given the times probably three or four?

Let's look at it again - by the time of the 'Appin Massacre' SIXTEEN Whites had been killed - and leaving out that FOURTEEN Blacks - only FIVE Blacks had been killed.  Five  + Fourteen = NINETEEN.

So the Cheeses had been killing men, women and children at a rate of over three times their own deaths until that 'massacre', and yet this is nowhere described as a 'massacre'?

I'll try again - what if they had been YOUR family?

If they'd been mine I would kill every Black in sight..... YOU? And guess what - according to that descendant - they weren't all killed at Appin.

Something wrong with your generation, son?
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79540
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #168 - Sep 24th, 2022 at 7:08pm
 
You know what's good about all this and the other garbage doing the rounds these days - being discussed openly...... people who never thought that much about it dig and find the real truths..... which are NEVER what the zealots are trying to push on everyone else.

16 -5 ... add 14 .... 16-19 .... yet only one side is the criminal..... Jesus, you people are thick.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39921
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #169 - Sep 24th, 2022 at 9:08pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:28pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:11pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 4:42pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 2:38pm:
the past is a foreign planet to which we cannot travel and from which there is no extradition treaty... you can't live there due to the toxic environment.


The past is 15 minutes ago and raw, where ethnic/cultural memory linked with ethnic/cultural identity, is concerned.

That is true everywhere they are so linked - in Scotland, in Catalonia, in the Americas, in Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Armenia, Transnistria, South Africa, Israel, Palestine, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, the Phillippines, Cyprus, Ukraine, Ireland, Canada, Basque Country, the Caribbean, East Turkestan &etc

Why would it not be the same with the aboriginal peoples in Australia?

And, yes, you can live there, generation after generation, for hundreds, if not a thousand, years.

Why else would dominant cultures resort to the genocide or ethnic cleansing of subjugated peoples?



Memory doesn't have to be self-destructive. Conversely, self-destructive behaviour will not improve memories.

The last two centuries of Aboriginal life and history is exhaustively documented compared to the previous 40 thousand years.  The relentless self-pity is futile and energy-sapping as well as alienating of others. Who wants to walk with people who have no other topic but the bipolarity of billowing self-pity or exaggerated pride.

I can't help noticing that both the self-pity and pride are done in English,  using all the tools of culture and technology Aborigines did not have themselves.  How about some gratitude for the obvious improvement civilisation has brought to most Aborigines' lives, especially the loudest protesters' lives. What are they doing for the remote kin, other than yelling in English on the ancient Aborigal streets through ancient Aboriginal electronic loudspeakers, fully dressed in Western clothes?


Cultural memory and its resultant resentment of subjugation are extraordinarily tenacious, the language that transmits it is irrelevant - it just needs to be communicated.

And it cannot be bought off or appeased out of existence.


You can't do Dreamtime in English, in an air conditioned university or government office or on the streets of capital cities. You can't recollect and live cultural memory that has been unchanged for 40 thousand years like that.

Everything Aborigines demand is stuff introduced by Europeans - sovereignty, legal rights, written treaty, money, mining royalties, financial compensation, democratic representation, referendums,  legislative power, government power etc. Absolutely none of it is rooted in Aboriginal culture or language. These are fairly recent inventions in Europe itself, none of them older than about 2500 years.

If the Europeans had been just like an overwhelmingly powerful Aboriginal tribe but culturally identical,  they would have subjugated or exterminated the weaker Aboriginal tribes here.  The point is that Aboriginal cultural similarity would have been even worse as they would have been a lot harsher, unaccommodating and cruel - see how some Aborigines - the most traditional ones -  still treat each other to this day. 

Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79540
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #170 - Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:06pm
 
An Indian bloke on Twitter asked if Britain should be paying reparations to the nations they once held.  One English bloke got it in one - he said they were still waiting for word from the Romans, and had not heard a peep from the Saxons, Jutes, Danes, and Vikings - let alone the Normans, etc as regard reparations for invasion.

It's time the Cheeses stopped this nonsense and got on with it.  Their day is gone.  If we all held the Entitlement™ to be active for losses in our past, we would all be on the streets endlessly parading with our own personal 'flag' and all the other rubbish.

At 16+ Whites killed v 5 Cheeses in the lead-up to Appin - it sounds like the ethnic cleansing was coming from the Cheeses..... sorry 'bout that.  THEY were the ones intent on driving the others out or killing them, man, woman and child, yet all we hear is the whining over 'the Appin Massacre' of fourteen combatants who clearly knew they were in a 'war' since they were hiding.

They lost.  Now for the Truth-telling sequel - The Truth About Frontier Wars Australia.

Many of you here, and out there in LaLaland Australia, need to wake up and actually work these things out - and stop accepting everything you're told as gospel.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:12pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #171 - Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:50am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:11am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 10:03pm:
The more I see of this the more disgusted I become with the history re-writer fantasists and their lies - and the more I become alienated from your Noble Abos.

Maybe the idiots should have left it well enough alone before the truth came out.


There's something you need to accept - the history you were taught as a child was biased towards the colonists. It whitewashed (pardon the pun) atrocities committed by the British, then Australian, authorities out of non-indigenous memory. Australianism became defined through 'wild colonial boys', a sheep rustling swagman, convicts as happy scamps, salt-of-the-earth non-indigenous farmers, gold prospectors, European entrepreneurs and explorers - anything but native peoples' heroics.

However, here's the thing - this is not about right vs wrong; it's about right vs right and wrongs committed for wrongs done.

In the case of the convicts, as depraved as most of them were, did not come to Australia by choice, and yet were forced to survive by any means necessary.

The free colonists may have come here by choice but, equally, once here, were also forced to survive by any means necessary.

In this struggle for survival, violent conflict between aboriginal peoples and colonists was guaranteed.

Not only that, the harsh truth is that it is irreconcilable. Ethno-chauvinism is innate in humans as is the longevity of cultural memory - as countless world conflicts confirm.

There will never be a time when aboriginal peoples will feel compensated (no matter what reparations are delivered).

Grievance culture can and does span hundreds of years, if not millennia.



Well that can be seen in non Aboriginal immigrant groups as well ...... when the Australian Govt decided to take the 3 generationally at odds Yugoslav groups in ...Serbs, Croats & Muslim Bosnians.

The Australian born children are taught the prejudices of their parents, Grandparents  aggrievances of the past & don't like each other even today.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #172 - Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:52am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:42pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:38pm:
Black Culture Good - White Culture Bad?  Black entitled™ to hate and hold grudge and demand and demand after losing war - White can only kow-tow?

[][]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e8/d5/aa/e8d5aa601cfe63f37bcb5daacf7f1982.jpg[][]


As I said, you're an indoctrinated old man.


I'd say a fair chance the indoctrination is in your court.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10280
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #173 - Sep 25th, 2022 at 8:39am
 
Gnads wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:50am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:11am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 10:03pm:
The more I see of this the more disgusted I become with the history re-writer fantasists and their lies - and the more I become alienated from your Noble Abos.

Maybe the idiots should have left it well enough alone before the truth came out.


There's something you need to accept - the history you were taught as a child was biased towards the colonists. It whitewashed (pardon the pun) atrocities committed by the British, then Australian, authorities out of non-indigenous memory. Australianism became defined through 'wild colonial boys', a sheep rustling swagman, convicts as happy scamps, salt-of-the-earth non-indigenous farmers, gold prospectors, European entrepreneurs and explorers - anything but native peoples' heroics.

However, here's the thing - this is not about right vs wrong; it's about right vs right and wrongs committed for wrongs done.

In the case of the convicts, as depraved as most of them were, did not come to Australia by choice, and yet were forced to survive by any means necessary.

The free colonists may have come here by choice but, equally, once here, were also forced to survive by any means necessary.

In this struggle for survival, violent conflict between aboriginal peoples and colonists was guaranteed.

Not only that, the harsh truth is that it is irreconcilable. Ethno-chauvinism is innate in humans as is the longevity of cultural memory - as countless world conflicts confirm.

There will never be a time when aboriginal peoples will feel compensated (no matter what reparations are delivered).

Grievance culture can and does span hundreds of years, if not millennia.



Well that can be seen in non Aboriginal immigrant groups as well ...... when the Australian Govt decided to take the 3 generationally at odds Yugoslav groups in ...Serbs, Croats & Muslim Bosnians.

The Australian born children are taught the prejudices of their parents, Grandparents  aggrievances of the past & don't like each other even today.

Yes. Ethno-cultural, religious grievances can be observed everywhere in the world, almost without exception, where two or more confront each other - and made worse where one group dominates, or has dominated, the others.

And the memory of the struggle can last millennia - hence the statue of Boudica.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10280
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #174 - Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:17am
 
Gnads wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:52am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:42pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:38pm:
Black Culture Good - White Culture Bad?  Black entitled™ to hate and hold grudge and demand and demand after losing war - White can only kow-tow?

[][]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e8/d5/aa/e8d5aa601cfe63f37bcb5daacf7f1982.jpg[][]


As I said, you're an indoctrinated old man.


I'd say a fair chance the indoctrination is in your court.

There is no doubt that the narrative of colonisation, as taught to those of the 50s, and before, is in its death throes and within 20 years will be gone with the passing of those generations.

However, grievances will persist, surviving us all, and generations after us.

But, a word of caution to those who believe those grievances will be extinguished by reparations - they will not.

Like a hydra, severing the head of one grievance issue will spawn two others; that is the nature of the human capacity for harbouring resentment for dispossession and subjugation.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10280
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #175 - Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:25am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 2:00pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:38pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:34pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:22pm:
How many of my Irish ancestors suffered dispossession by Cromwell? 

A childhood friend of mine was Irish by descent (parents Irish) and he would recount lurid tales of Cromwell pitchforking babies.

Cultural memory when shackled to cultural identity is forever.

His family would not tolerate protestants in their house.


Multiculturalism in action. Diversity is Ireland's strength.


To close this out, years later when, as an adult, he visited Ireland, he told me he was stunned to discover that the Republic had progressed well beyond its psychiatric obsession with the Catholicism of his parent's generation and before - he saw Irish protestant churches, met Irish Buddhists, and saw Irish Hari Krishnas.

Irish freedom from subjugation in the south had extinguished the active resentment towards the British and their rule, although that resentment was still alive when it came to the issue of 'the six counties' (Northern Ireland) and when it came to the memory of British rule.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ron
Junior Member
**
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 86
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #176 - Sep 25th, 2022 at 10:15am
 
As aboriginal woman Jacinta Price says "we should be grateful that the British colonised Australia".
There are no wars in Australia, only the ungrateful and divisive activists that are doing their best to stuff things up.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10280
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #177 - Sep 25th, 2022 at 10:25am
 
I read a counterfactual some time ago of Australia's history had the Dutch in the East Indies colonised the north; had the French not been distracted by the revolution and Napoleonic wars, colonising the west, and had the British colonised only the southeast.

Australia would have had three distinct cultures - a Quebec-style state in the west, a northern Islamic state and an eastern British state.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 10397
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #178 - Sep 25th, 2022 at 10:58am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:31pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:27pm:
Gnads wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:21pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:24am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:10am:
Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.


So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.



You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.


You can be dispossessed of land you occupy by ancient custom. 

Whose ancient custom?


Gnads made a confused statement about "ownership" of land.

I just pointed out 'history's' custom: 6OK years ago, hunter-gatherers entered Oz and occupied the land (which really had been 'terra nullius'...).

Interestingly today, some academics are grappling with the problem of maintaining  a 'living' black culture, by adopting the concept of black ownership of land which they are free to develop in their own way thereby preserving the culture.

I think that's madness, as well as contradictory; ownership of land is NOT part of black culture. 

A more practical idea, to account for black dispossession, would be government housing for blacks (and whites) who cannot access the private housing market; housing ownership rates in Oz are falling, will soon drop below 50%. 

(Meanwhile , I'm pleased to see the CCP has finally taken control of the chaotic free-market housing outcomes in China, by reaffirming houses are for living in, not private investment; the CCP is guaranteeing funds to ensure completion of housing already paid for, and to ensure stabilization of Evergrande's debt, thus avoiding the housing crash expected by Western economists].
Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:12am by thegreatdivide »  
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39921
Gender: male
Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #179 - Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:26am
 
Aboriginal relation to the land is not in any way like 'land rights' or ownership. It is radically different to ownership, in fact. But since neither contemporary urban Aborigines nor non-Aborigines can comprehend or reproduce or articulate that radically different relationship, and because the entire contemporary legal, philosophical, political system is deaf and blind to it, those ancient relationships are expressed in concepts and language that misses the point.

"The Australian people of the pre-conquest era did not avoid agriculture because they didn’t know how plants grow. The proposition would be absurd, given they were acute observers of the plants around them and the plants’ life cycles. Instead, they regarded the fertility and the reproductive spark that maintained plant populations via seeds to be spiritual, not a matter of secular human technology."

Aboriginal law, similarly, is nothing like Western law. While there is continuity between, say, Greco-Roman antiquity and contemporary Western concepts, law, etc, there is nothing connecting ancient Aboriginal ways of seeing the world and our contemporary way of seeing, regardless of Aboriginality or otherwise.

There was an irreversible paradigm shift between two radically incompatible ways of seeing and being when the British arrived.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 25th, 2022 at 3:52pm by Frank »  

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 35
Send Topic Print