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The Australian Wars - Culture is Life (Read 10337 times)

MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #150 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:36pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:31pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:29pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:22pm:

How many of my female ancestors, and yours, do you imagine were 'stolen' and ended up in some bloke's breeding chain? How many of my Irish ancestors suffered dispossession by Cromwell? How many of my German Jewish ancestors were persecuted and even killed? How many Scottish etc were beaten into the ground so their land could be taken?

Should I now be weeping about it and saying that means I am savagely disadvantaged here and now today?

Do I now get to claim all those ancestral lands?

Did you experience life as an Irishman, Scotsman, German-Jewish or Australian? What is your primary cultural identity?

Australian - same as the Cheeses or they forfeit all benefits and rights - and very poor upbringing - many Cheeses had it far better, let me tell you.

So the chances are you do not have bone-deep feelings for the old countries. Your Australian identity has extinguished any inherited cultural rage about past atrocities committed against your ancestor.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #151 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:38pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:34pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:22pm:

How many of my Irish ancestors suffered dispossession by Cromwell?

A childhood friend of mine was Irish by descent (parents Irish) and he would recount lurid tales of Cromwell pitchforking babies.

Cultural memory when shackled to cultural identity is forever.

His family would not tolerate protestants in their house.

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Frank

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #152 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 2:00pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:34pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:22pm:

How many of my Irish ancestors suffered dispossession by Cromwell?

A childhood friend of mine was Irish by descent (parents Irish) and he would recount lurid tales of Cromwell pitchforking babies.

Cultural memory when shackled to cultural identity is forever.

His family would not tolerate protestants in their house.

Multiculturalism in action. Diversity is Ireland's strength.

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #153 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 2:38pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:36pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:31pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:29pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 1:22pm:

How many of my female ancestors, and yours, do you imagine were 'stolen' and ended up in some bloke's breeding chain? How many of my Irish ancestors suffered dispossession by Cromwell? How many of my German Jewish ancestors were persecuted and even killed? How many Scottish etc were beaten into the ground so their land could be taken?

Should I now be weeping about it and saying that means I am savagely disadvantaged here and now today?

Do I now get to claim all those ancestral lands?

Did you experience life as an Irishman, Scotsman, German-Jewish or Australian? What is your primary cultural identity?

Australian - same as the Cheeses or they forfeit all benefits and rights - and very poor upbringing - many Cheeses had it far better, let me tell you.

So the chances are you do not have bone-deep feelings for the old countries. Your Australian identity has extinguished any inherited cultural rage about past atrocities committed against your ancestor.

It was long ago and in a faraway country, and besides - the woman is dead.... (comes from a famous poem) ...

I'm trying to enlighten our Cheeses and the CheeseLovers that the past is a foreign planet to which we cannot travel and from which there is no extradition treaty... you can't live there due to the toxic environment.

It's time! Time to get into the 21st Century or keep charging straight into civil war by your own impetus... and you can't win. With all this hot-headed BS in the streets, how long before some turkey gets it into his head to attack Whartey direct?

When you talk of war, be careful of what you speak.... you WILL lose, Cheeses.... and you were doing so well getting stupid politicians and courts to raise their arses to you...

Time for the BS to finish!

My father's family were Prods - my mother's Cat'lics - never the twain shall meet... I'm the Black Sheep of two Black Sheep....

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #154 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 4:42pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 2:38pm:

the past is a foreign planet to which we cannot travel and from which there is no extradition treaty... you can't live there due to the toxic environment.

The past is 15 minutes ago and raw, where ethnic/cultural memory linked with ethnic/cultural identity, is concerned.

That is true everywhere they are so linked - in Scotland, in Catalonia, in the Americas, in Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Armenia, Transnistria, South Africa, Israel, Palestine, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, the Phillippines, Cyprus, Ukraine, Ireland, Canada, Basque Country, the Caribbean, East Turkestan &etc

Why would it not be the same with the aboriginal peoples in Australia?

And, yes, you can live there, generation after generation, for hundreds, if not a thousand, years.

Why else would dominant cultures resort to the genocide or ethnic cleansing of subjugated peoples?

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Frank

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #155 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:11pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 4:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 2:38pm:

the past is a foreign planet to which we cannot travel and from which there is no extradition treaty... you can't live there due to the toxic environment.

The past is 15 minutes ago and raw, where ethnic/cultural memory linked with ethnic/cultural identity, is concerned.

That is true everywhere they are so linked - in Scotland, in Catalonia, in the Americas, in Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Armenia, Transnistria, South Africa, Israel, Palestine, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, the Phillippines, Cyprus, Ukraine, Ireland, Canada, Basque Country, the Caribbean, East Turkestan &etc

Why would it not be the same with the aboriginal peoples in Australia?

And, yes, you can live there, generation after generation, for hundreds, if not a thousand, years.

Why else would dominant cultures resort to the genocide or ethnic cleansing of subjugated peoples?

Memory doesn't have to be self-destructive. Conversely, self-destructive behaviour will not improve memories.

The last two centuries of Aboriginal life and history is exhaustively documented compared to the previous 40 thousand years. The relentless self-pity is futile and energy-sapping as well as alienating of others. Who wants to walk with people who have no other topic but the bipolarity of billowing self-pity or exaggerated pride.

I can't help noticing that both the self-pity and pride are done in English, using all the tools of culture and technology Aborigines did not have themselves. How about some gratitude for the obvious improvement civilisation has brought to most Aborigines' lives, especially the loudest protesters' lives. What are they doing for the remote kin, other than yelling in English on the ancient Aborigal streets through ancient Aboriginal electronic loudspeakers, fully dressed in Western clothes?

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #156 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #157 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:27pm

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

You can be dispossessed of land you occupy by ancient custom.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #158 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:11pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 4:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 2:38pm:

the past is a foreign planet to which we cannot travel and from which there is no extradition treaty... you can't live there due to the toxic environment.

The past is 15 minutes ago and raw, where ethnic/cultural memory linked with ethnic/cultural identity, is concerned.

That is true everywhere they are so linked - in Scotland, in Catalonia, in the Americas, in Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Armenia, Transnistria, South Africa, Israel, Palestine, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, the Phillippines, Cyprus, Ukraine, Ireland, Canada, Basque Country, the Caribbean, East Turkestan &etc

Why would it not be the same with the aboriginal peoples in Australia?

And, yes, you can live there, generation after generation, for hundreds, if not a thousand, years.

Why else would dominant cultures resort to the genocide or ethnic cleansing of subjugated peoples?

Memory doesn't have to be self-destructive. Conversely, self-destructive behaviour will not improve memories.

The last two centuries of Aboriginal life and history is exhaustively documented compared to the previous 40 thousand years. The relentless self-pity is futile and energy-sapping as well as alienating of others. Who wants to walk with people who have no other topic but the bipolarity of billowing self-pity or exaggerated pride.

I can't help noticing that both the self-pity and pride are done in English, using all the tools of culture and technology Aborigines did not have themselves. How about some gratitude for the obvious improvement civilisation has brought to most Aborigines' lives, especially the loudest protesters' lives. What are they doing for the remote kin, other than yelling in English on the ancient Aborigal streets through ancient Aboriginal electronic loudspeakers, fully dressed in Western clothes?

Cultural memory and its resultant resentment of subjugation are extraordinarily tenacious, the language that transmits it is irrelevant - it just needs to be communicated.

And it cannot be bought off or appeased out of existence.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #159 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #160 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:31pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:27pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

You can be dispossessed of land you occupy by ancient custom.

Whose ancient custom?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #161 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 6:09pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Since 1788 - the Crown as represented by the governing body here.

What was the go in 1787 is not the go now - I can't claim a huge swathe of land because I walk over it regularly. It just doesn't work that way any more and it is time to get used to it.

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #162 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 6:12pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:11pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 4:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 2:38pm:

the past is a foreign planet to which we cannot travel and from which there is no extradition treaty... you can't live there due to the toxic environment.

The past is 15 minutes ago and raw, where ethnic/cultural memory linked with ethnic/cultural identity, is concerned.

That is true everywhere they are so linked - in Scotland, in Catalonia, in the Americas, in Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Armenia, Transnistria, South Africa, Israel, Palestine, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, the Phillippines, Cyprus, Ukraine, Ireland, Canada, Basque Country, the Caribbean, East Turkestan &etc

Why would it not be the same with the aboriginal peoples in Australia?

And, yes, you can live there, generation after generation, for hundreds, if not a thousand, years.

Why else would dominant cultures resort to the genocide or ethnic cleansing of subjugated peoples?

Memory doesn't have to be self-destructive. Conversely, self-destructive behaviour will not improve memories.

The last two centuries of Aboriginal life and history is exhaustively documented compared to the previous 40 thousand years. The relentless self-pity is futile and energy-sapping as well as alienating of others. Who wants to walk with people who have no other topic but the bipolarity of billowing self-pity or exaggerated pride.

I can't help noticing that both the self-pity and pride are done in English, using all the tools of culture and technology Aborigines did not have themselves. How about some gratitude for the obvious improvement civilisation has brought to most Aborigines' lives, especially the loudest protesters' lives. What are they doing for the remote kin, other than yelling in English on the ancient Aborigal streets through ancient Aboriginal electronic loudspeakers, fully dressed in Western clothes?

Cultural memory and its resultant resentment of subjugation are extraordinarily tenacious, the language that transmits it is irrelevant - it just needs to be communicated.

And it cannot be bought off or appeased out of existence.

So we forget the murdered White men, women and children, and carry on forever over the relatively few actually killed as long as they were Aborigines? their families are not entitled™ to hold anything against the people who did those murders etc, but the Cheeses are entitled™ to carry on forever over a few war casualties in a war they declared?

Is that what you're truth-telling us?

What if White Australia carried the same grudges? There'd be hell on the streets... and there may well be some time soon if this keeps up.

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #163 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 6:12pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 6:09pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Since 1788 - the Crown as represented by the governing body here.

What was the go in 1787 is not the go now - I can't claim a huge swathe of land because I walk over it regularly. It just doesn't work that way any more and it is time to get used to it.

The consequence of terra nullius.

In Britain that is exactly how walkways through private land are kept public - by the public walking through the land at least once a year.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #164 - Sep 24^th, 2022 at 6:22pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 6:12pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:28pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:11pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 4:42pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 2:38pm:

the past is a foreign planet to which we cannot travel and from which there is no extradition treaty... you can't live there due to the toxic environment.

The past is 15 minutes ago and raw, where ethnic/cultural memory linked with ethnic/cultural identity, is concerned.

That is true everywhere they are so linked - in Scotland, in Catalonia, in the Americas, in Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Armenia, Transnistria, South Africa, Israel, Palestine, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, the Phillippines, Cyprus, Ukraine, Ireland, Canada, Basque Country, the Caribbean, East Turkestan &etc

Why would it not be the same with the aboriginal peoples in Australia?

And, yes, you can live there, generation after generation, for hundreds, if not a thousand, years.

Why else would dominant cultures resort to the genocide or ethnic cleansing of subjugated peoples?

Memory doesn't have to be self-destructive. Conversely, self-destructive behaviour will not improve memories.

The last two centuries of Aboriginal life and history is exhaustively documented compared to the previous 40 thousand years. The relentless self-pity is futile and energy-sapping as well as alienating of others. Who wants to walk with people who have no other topic but the bipolarity of billowing self-pity or exaggerated pride.

I can't help noticing that both the self-pity and pride are done in English, using all the tools of culture and technology Aborigines did not have themselves. How about some gratitude for the obvious improvement civilisation has brought to most Aborigines' lives, especially the loudest protesters' lives. What are they doing for the remote kin, other than yelling in English on the ancient Aborigal streets through ancient Aboriginal electronic loudspeakers, fully dressed in Western clothes?

Cultural memory and its resultant resentment of subjugation are extraordinarily tenacious, the language that transmits it is irrelevant - it just needs to be communicated.

And it cannot be bought off or appeased out of existence.

So we forget the murdered White men, women and children, and carry on forever over the relatively few actually killed as long as they were Aborigines? their families are not entitled™ to hold anything against the people who did those murders etc, but the Cheeses are entitled™ to carry on forever over a few war casualties in a war they declared?

Is that what you're truth-telling us?

What if White Australia carried the same grudges? There'd be hell on the streets... and there may well be some time soon if this keeps up.

You're a product of your generation - indoctrinated with an Australian history skewed to sanctify colonial settlement.

However, it's no different to the narrative all dominant cultures teach their adherents toward the subjugated. You're just not capable of seeing it as applying to aboriginal peoples regarding colonialism.

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