Australian Politics Forum - The Australian Wars

thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #405 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:13pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Mad woman's underwear, divide - you can't have 'ethnic cleansing' and 'cleared off the land' and still have some living there.

your pigmy bonehead lawywer's brain is on display: blacks were increasingly pushed to more remote areas, as ethnic cleansing in frontier wars drove them out. No doubt some hid in the bush and survived.

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Just accept that some of you are wrong and stop twisting like a snake. They were NOT ethnic cleansed or cleared off the land... some died in open conflict with settlers etc, those that didn't take up the spear were not, so it was no 'genocide'.

Bonehead lawyer getting caught up in definitions: genocide does not refer to the entire race.

And now things are getting "interesting" after the Mabo decision. Blacks reckon they can claim possession through clan history and the like (likely a flawed process since black didn't keep records).

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Either these people are the direct descendants of the original Sydney Harbour Cheeses or that primest land has been handed over to the wrong people for political purposes.

yes... aided and abetted the High Court who casually recognized terra nullius as fiction, but then claimed British sovereignty over Oz without recognizing the contradiction and its consesequences

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Notice all the savage White demonstrations in the streets about that and the threats to burn the whole joint down, all those Whiteys carrying on about being Warriors of the Australian Resistance etc.... notice how angry people are over this abuse of office and outright theft of National Park land to give to a pack of fraudsters.....

Aided and abetted by the High Court; if the British monarch is sovereign in Oz (since 1788), a better solution than the flawed concept of land rights, and the resulting black claims, is the provision of PUBLIC land and housing for all as required, given only the wealthy can now afford to buy houses.

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Rioting in the streets they are.

We need the High Court to identify what British sovereignty means in practice..

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Honestly, some of you are so stupid it's not even funny.

Examined above (by me).

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Now to read the article Frank put up there...

You'll love it....but I already critiqued it.

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« Last Edit: Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:32pm by thegreatdivide »

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Frank

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #406 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:31pm

It was never in question whether Aborigines lived here before 1788. Of course they did.

The thorny questions are about how to deal with them in law. Aborigines had no recognisable social or legal organisation beyond loose tribes and clans whose most important rules related to kinship and marriage, not land or territorial ownership (unknown concepts to them) or nationhood (ditto) or representation (ditto) or any of the recognisable rules and laws relating to sovereignty, territory etc in Europe and most of the rest of the world.

The legal, social, cultural chasm between people who had just invented the steam engine and people who couldn't boil water could not have been any greater. The highly literate steam age met the illiterate stone age.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #407 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:41pm

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:31pm:

It was never in question whether Aborigines lived here before 1788. Of course they did.

You made a factually correct statement, let's see how long you can keep it up.

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The thorny questions are about how to deal with them in law.

Did you steal that comment from my previous 2 posts, in which I critized the High Court's lack of clarity on 'sovereignty'? Anyway, so far so good for you....

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Aborigines had no recognisable social or legal organisation beyond loose tribes and clans whose most important rules related to kinship and marriage, not land or territorial ownership (unknown concepts to them) or nationhood (ditto) or representation (ditto) or any of the recognisable rules and laws relating to sovereignty, territory etc in Europe and most of the rest of the world.

Still doing well.

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The legal, social, cultural chasm between people who had just invented the steam engine and people who couldn't boil water could not have been any greater. The highly literate steam age met the illiterate stone age.

Gosh ...a factually correct post....as far as it goes; - now, how to close the gap, and house everyone in public housing where required.

Sorry to offend your conservative home ownership ideology, running the risk the current Oz housing ponzi may collapse eventually.

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« Last Edit: Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:47pm by thegreatdivide »

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Frank

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #408 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:44pm

Quote:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:41pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:31pm:

It was never in question whether Aborigines lived here before 1788. Of course they did.

You made a factually correct statement, let's see how long you can keep it up.

Quote:

The thorny questions are about how to deal with them in law.

Did you steal that comment from my previous 2 posts, in which I critized the High Court's lack of clarity on 'sovereignty'? Anyway, so far so good for you....

Quote:

Aborigines had no recognisable social or legal organisation beyond loose tribes and clans whose most important rules related to kinship and marriage, not land or territorial ownership (unknown concepts to them) or nationhood (ditto) or representation (ditto) or any of the recognisable rules and laws relating to sovereignty, territory etc in Europe and most of the rest of the world.

Still doing well.

The legal, social, cultural chasm between people who had just invented the steam engine and people who couldn't boil water could not have been any greater. The highly literate steam age met the illiterate stone age.

Gosh ...a factually correct post.

So the Terra was nullius for legal, treaty making purposes. Which is what it ALWAYS meant.

'First Nations' is a recently invented anachronistic sleight of hand.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #409 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:51pm

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:44pm:

So the Terra was nullius for legal, treaty making purposes. Which is what it ALWAYS meant.

It wasn't left as a legal nicety, it was the basis for all land acquisition throughout Australia without the need for negotiations or agreements with Aboriginal peoples.

It became the founding principle for legal dispossession.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #410 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:56pm

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:44pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1662899102/407#407 date=1665211270][quote author=Frank link=1662899102/406#406 date=1665210673]It was never in question whether Aborigines lived here before 1788. Of course they did.

You made a factually correct statement, let's see how long you can keep it up.

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The thorny questions are about how to deal with them in law.

Did you steal that comment from my previous 2 posts, in which I critized the High Court's lack of clarity on 'sovereignty'? Anyway, so far so good for you....

Quote:

Aborigines had no recognisable social or legal organisation beyond loose tribes and clans whose most important rules related to kinship and marriage, not land or territorial ownership (unknown concepts to them) or nationhood (ditto) or representation (ditto) or any of the recognisable rules and laws relating to sovereignty, territory etc in Europe and most of the rest of the world.

Still doing well.

Quote:

The legal, social, cultural chasm between people who had just invented the steam engine and people who couldn't boil water could not have been any greater. The highly literate steam age met the illiterate stone age.

Gosh ...still correct.

Quote:

So the Terra was nullius for legal, treaty making purposes. Which is what it ALWAYS meant.

Terra nullius was a fiction recognized by the High Court as late as 1992. so your statement is wrong.

Well... I didn't think you would make it to the end.

So the legal profession is making a killing in the subsequent black land rights claims

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'First Nations' is a recently invented anachronistic sleight of hand.

At least you finished correctly...yet the High Court still hasn't addressed sovereignty versus terra nullius

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« Last Edit: Oct 9^th, 2022 at 10:39am by thegreatdivide »

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #411 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #412 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:06pm

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 26^th, 2022 at 4:37pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 7:56pm:

Reprise - takes another bow:-

Well - I guess they didn't learn their lesson at Appin all those years ago after running around and murdering more than sixteen Whites, including women and children, in their ethnic cleansing/genocide against Whites ... and when Whartey cunningly snuck up on them and caught them napping while in hiding and took down fourteen armed combatants in a melee in the dark with a few not so innocent bystanders included.

When you run with the wild dogs killing sheep - you die with the wild dogs....

Now they run around murdering society by proxy while feeding off it .... and nobody mounts an operation against them... instead all the spiritually, morally and cerebrally blind, mentally lame and halt, and drug-addled on New City Hall Righteousness (NCHR) actually change history to make it into something it never was.

They stand at the gates (gatekeepers), lumping people (as the generationophobes do) into neat little boxes in their own minds, like Dr Mengele - and determine on a purely arbitrary basis which facts and reports and histories will be sent to work for the cause and which will go to the Social Scientist gas chambers...

Blacks raping and murdering women and children - GOOD! Whites killing combatants and taking children into protection - BAD!

Seriously - this country has become very, very sick.

Much of the world is in trouble, as Guterres said (to which your reply was: zzzzzzzzzzzz, - an indication of your grasp of reality.

Now, the reason why people want to rewrite black history in Oz is to provide an explaination of why the egregious and disgraceful gap exists.

But like I said, the survival and transition of an illiterate hunter-gatherer society which possessed no technology at all (apart from animal skins for clothing in cold regions?) is an extremely complex task.

You were on course with your previous post: assisted training to enter the modern world's economy.

To be sure, if you want to measure the cost of this training in dollars, and force the government to tax or borrow the money, the project loses its appeal.....

But Oz has all the resources it needs to train 100K or more blacks to enter the modern economy.

However, since everyone's fooled by the current central bank arrangements, that task won't be achieved.

First Australians had a lot more technology than that but yes, they were ripped from their way of life into one they did not know

Absolute bullshyte.

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Brian Ross

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #413 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:11pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 26^th, 2022 at 4:37pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 25^th, 2022 at 7:56pm:

Reprise - takes another bow:-

Well - I guess they didn't learn their lesson at Appin all those years ago after running around and murdering more than sixteen Whites, including women and children, in their ethnic cleansing/genocide against Whites ... and when Whartey cunningly snuck up on them and caught them napping while in hiding and took down fourteen armed combatants in a melee in the dark with a few not so innocent bystanders included.

When you run with the wild dogs killing sheep - you die with the wild dogs....

Now they run around murdering society by proxy while feeding off it .... and nobody mounts an operation against them... instead all the spiritually, morally and cerebrally blind, mentally lame and halt, and drug-addled on New City Hall Righteousness (NCHR) actually change history to make it into something it never was.

They stand at the gates (gatekeepers), lumping people (as the generationophobes do) into neat little boxes in their own minds, like Dr Mengele - and determine on a purely arbitrary basis which facts and reports and histories will be sent to work for the cause and which will go to the Social Scientist gas chambers...

Blacks raping and murdering women and children - GOOD! Whites killing combatants and taking children into protection - BAD!

Seriously - this country has become very, very sick.

Much of the world is in trouble, as Guterres said (to which your reply was: zzzzzzzzzzzz, - an indication of your grasp of reality.

Now, the reason why people want to rewrite black history in Oz is to provide an explaination of why the egregious and disgraceful gap exists.

But like I said, the survival and transition of an illiterate hunter-gatherer society which possessed no technology at all (apart from animal skins for clothing in cold regions?) is an extremely complex task.

You were on course with your previous post: assisted training to enter the modern world's economy.

To be sure, if you want to measure the cost of this training in dollars, and force the government to tax or borrow the money, the project loses its appeal.....

But Oz has all the resources it needs to train 100K or more blacks to enter the modern economy.

However, since everyone's fooled by the current central bank arrangements, that task won't be achieved.

First Australians had a lot more technology than that but yes, they were ripped from their way of life into one they did not know

Absolute bullshyte.

I am glad you are recognising your contribution to this debate, Gnads finally. All you have contributed is bullshit, Racism pure and simple. What a WOFTAM. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #414 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

Like fauna?

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 31417 Gender:	Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Reply #415 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:16pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 27^th, 2022 at 5:00pm: Ron wrote on Sep 27^th, 2022 at 4:44pm: You're being kind to them Grapps. He's ranting like the brain dead racist old man he is You calling anyone braindead is an ultimate hypocrisy
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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #416 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:20pm

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28^th, 2022 at 7:41am:

Frank wrote on Sep 27^th, 2022 at 9:40pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 27^th, 2022 at 6:23pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 27^th, 2022 at 5:35pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 27^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 27^th, 2022 at 5:27pm:

*snip the racist bs*.

Oh. Look

You should listen to that Conversation, ya ignorant nutter.

Or not - you wouldn't be able to leave your eyewateringly stupid, kooky comments on The Conversations website.

Your tears energise me

People shite and piss on you 24/7 and you think it's tears just because it's wet.

Keep talking, let's see what else you misunderstand completely.

The whole point is that this forum is full of right wing scum who I easily prove to be lying, and the fact you're in a circle jerk changes nothing

You don't do a solitary thing except blather leftard drivel.

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Frank

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #417 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:22pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

Like fauna?

In LEGAL terms, and spiritually, yes. You can't make a treaty with people who do not have the concepts of a treaty and what it might cover and what it might not.

Not colonising Australia was not an option.

What would YOU have done?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #418 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:23pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

Like fauna?

No, by possession of tribal lands.

But since the High Court in 1992 has asserted British sovereignty since 1788 (while eradicating terra nullis at the same time), we have some some legal problems - which will appeal to the fat cats on the High Court.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #419 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:26pm

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:22pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Gnads wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 5:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:24am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24^th, 2022 at 11:10am:

Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.

So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation.

You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own.

Who determines ownership?

Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land.

Like fauna?

In LEGAL terms, and spiritually, yes. You can't make a treaty with people who do not have the concepts of a treaty and what it might cover and what it might not.

So they could be legally cleared from the land like the thylacine?

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