Australian Politics Forum - Renaissamce mathematicians

John_Taverner

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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #30 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:35pm

Frank wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 6:11pm:

Lennox is after my own heart although my convictions are a lot weaker than his. He does make it clear, as does Dawkins despite himself, that god is NOT a scientific question (like so many other, lesser things aren't).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVEuQg_Mglw
55.20 esp 55.55

It is a delight to to listen to him and he brings the best out of Dawkins who cannot talk down to Lennox.

Today's word: paradigm.

Yes. There has been a paradigm shift with regards to religiosity, and I agree that god (lower case acknowledged) is not a scientific question, except maybe in the field of psychology.

When I talk about god, I'm not talking about the Abrahamic God that has dominated the last two millennia.

My previous point (maybe on the other thread) was about the decline in established religion in recent decades. I don't think that "scientism" has played a significant role in the decline. I think it's more about a shift in cultural paradigm. It started long before the end of the Second World War, but the real avalanche where more and more people started to question established ideas and principles, was catalysed by WWII.

First you had John Osborne and his angry young men, but then there was an enormous influence on the arts and popular music. Some of it came from new found prosperity, but with the 60s and 70s came a music revolution and a powerful youth rebellion against social norms. Something similar happened in the 90s, but the 60s and 70s were the beginning.

So while atheists often use science as a lame justification, I think that science and religion are if anything complementary, and frankly I don't want to waste time in denigrating somebody else's worldview.

So what next in this Atheism forum? I might start a thread about Ancient Celtic languages and the myth of mass migrations. Maybe something about cultural migration. That might be fun.

Maybe that will wake up the moderator.

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Frank

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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #31 - Sep 18^th, 2022 at 12:53pm

John_Taverner wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:35pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 6:11pm:

Lennox is after my own heart although my convictions are a lot weaker than his. He does make it clear, as does Dawkins despite himself, that god is NOT a scientific question (like so many other, lesser things aren't).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVEuQg_Mglw
55.20 esp 55.55

It is a delight to to listen to him and he brings the best out of Dawkins who cannot talk down to Lennox.

Today's word: paradigm.

Yes. There has been a paradigm shift with regards to religiosity, and I agree that god (lower case acknowledged) is not a scientific question, except maybe in the field of psychology.

When I talk about god, I'm not talking about the Abrahamic God that has dominated the last two millennia.

My previous point (maybe on the other thread) was about the decline in established religion in recent decades. I don't think that "scientism" has played a significant role in the decline. I think it's more about a shift in cultural paradigm. It started long before the end of the Second World War, but the real avalanche where more and more people started to question established ideas and principles, was catalysed by WWII.

First you had John Osborne and his angry young men, but then there was an enormous influence on the arts and popular music. Some of it came from new found prosperity, but with the 60s and 70s came a music revolution and a powerful youth rebellion against social norms. Something similar happened in the 90s, but the 60s and 70s were the beginning.

So while atheists often use science as a lame justification, I think that science and religion are if anything complementary, and frankly I don't want to waste time in denigrating somebody else's worldview.

So what next in this Atheism forum? I might start a thread about Ancient Celtic languages and the myth of mass migrations. Maybe something about cultural migration. That might be fun.

Maybe that will wake up the moderator.

Agree.

Cultural migration is interesting. Religio is means binding, bond, obligation.
With the loss of religion in the West but with massive immigration by non-Western peoples who are not minded to lose their religion- what will bind us together? What will be the basis of cultural and societal bonds, solidarity, fraternity, mutuality?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #32 - Sep 18^th, 2022 at 1:02pm

Frank wrote on Sep 18^th, 2022 at 12:53pm:

I don't think that "scientism" has played a significant role in the decline. I think it's more about a shift in cultural paradigm. It started long before the end of the Second World War,

Long before the second world war? You can say that again! You mean the Enlightenment?

The American founding fathers were already either atheists or deists at best.

And, apologies to Nietzsche.

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Frank

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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #33 - Sep 18^th, 2022 at 1:47pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 18^th, 2022 at 1:02pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 18^th, 2022 at 12:53pm:

I don't think that "scientism" has played a significant role in the decline. I think it's more about a shift in cultural paradigm. It started long before the end of the Second World War,

Long before the second world war? You can say that again! You mean the Enlightenment?

The American founding fathers were already either atheists or deists at best.

And, apologies to Nietzsche.

And yet the US is the most religious Western country. And a scientific powerhouse. Science and the Enlightenment both grew from a Christian soil, as did human rights, anti-slavery, emancipation of all sorts.

As JT says, rightly, religion and science are complimentary.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #34 - Sep 18^th, 2022 at 2:48pm

Frank wrote on Sep 18^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 18^th, 2022 at 1:02pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 18^th, 2022 at 12:53pm:

I don't think that "scientism" has played a significant role in the decline. I think it's more about a shift in cultural paradigm. It started long before the end of the Second World War,

Long before the second world war? You can say that again! You mean the Enlightenment?

The American founding fathers were already either atheists or deists at best.

And, apologies to Nietzsche.

And yet the US is the most religious Western country. And a scientific powerhouse. Science and the Enlightenment both grew from a Christian soil, as did human rights, anti-slavery, emancipation of all sorts.

Those New England puritans and quakers weren’t having any of that secularism. Industrialisation as a result of scientific progress was fine. Atheism, not so much.

The US almost stands alone as a highly successful country while full to the brim with godism. Nearly every other state where godism is involved is backward.

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John_Taverner

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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #35 - Sep 18^th, 2022 at 9:04pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 18^th, 2022 at 2:48pm:

The US almost stands alone as a highly successful country while full to the brim with godism. Nearly every other state where godism is involved is backward.

Well it's successful financially, but highly dysfunctional. I could tell you some horror stories about how industry operates over there.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 13182 Armidale Gender:	Re: Renaissamce mathematicians Reply #36 - Sep 23^rd, 2022 at 2:56pm 6 hours for this one. livescience.com/nasa-perseverance-rover-parachute-secret-code.html
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 51464 Gender:	Re: Renaissamce mathematicians Reply #37 - Sep 25^th, 2022 at 12:45am Schrödinger's Plates: They are both broken and not broken until you open the door.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50566 At my desk.	Re: Renaissamce mathematicians Reply #38 - Dec 10^th, 2023 at 4:55pm *This Topic was moved here from Atheism* by freediver.**
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