Australian Politics Forum - Why is China seen in the West as a threat?

MeisterEckhart

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Re: Why is China seen in the West as a threat?
Reply #135 - Jan 29^th, 2023 at 4:24pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 29^th, 2023 at 3:23pm:

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You need to understand that totalitarianism is hard-wired to fail and collapse. It is inherently corrupt - as all its forms elsewhere in the 20th century have proved.

You need to understand that totalitarianism was a reaction against the evils of the capitalist world in the 19th century. Undoubtedly Marx would not have approved of the methods used to establish 'socialism', in Russia and China - they were largely subsistence agricultural economies, not the industrializing economy Marx had in mind.

Lenin had no problem with imposing a reign of terror on the newly formed Soviet Union. Stalin having usurped the state by exiling and murdering all contenders, lost count of how many Soviets he'd murdered after 10 million. Mao didn't bother counting but was ok with the murder of half the population of China if needed (300 million). Xi is ploughing his way to Mao-style numbers as the facade of the CCP's health care system is laid bare for the fraud that it is.

The number of Chinese living today in extreme poverty in China is estimated at over 100 million. Most will be dead by the end of the year.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Why is China seen in the West as a threat?
Reply #136 - Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:03pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 29^th, 2023 at 4:24pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 29^th, 2023 at 3:23pm:

Quote:

You need to understand that totalitarianism is hard-wired to fail and collapse. It is inherently corrupt - as all its forms elsewhere in the 20th century have proved.

You need to understand that totalitarianism was a reaction against the evils of the capitalist world in the 19th century. Undoubtedly Marx would not have approved of the methods used to establish 'socialism', in Russia and China - they were largely subsistence agricultural economies, not the industrializing economy Marx had in mind.

Lenin had no problem with imposing a reign of terror on the newly formed Soviet Union. Stalin having usurped the state by exiling and murdering all contenders, lost count of how many Soviets he'd murdered after 10 million. Mao didn't bother counting but was ok with the murder of half the population of China if needed (300 million). Xi is ploughing his way to Mao-style numbers as the facade of the CCP's health care system is laid bare for the fraud that it is.

The number of Chinese living today in extreme poverty in China is estimated at over 100 million. Most will be dead by the end of the year.

So you don't understand the principle of reaction - in this case, against the evils of 19th century capitalism.

Meanwhile, s ince 1980 China has lifted more people out of poverty at a faster rate than any nation in history.

Time for you to teach yourself something about macro- eonomics, regardless of any sins of the CCP:

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=51201

Conclusion
The point is that both sides of .... politics are crippled by the same fictional mania about having to design policies that cover spending with tax revenue, not understanding that to really address the challenges will require substantially larger fiscal deficits for an extended period into the future".

It will be far more benficial for you, than listening to Peterson's unbalanced "individual responsibility" nonsense based on his ignorance of economics.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Why is China seen in the West as a threat?
Reply #137 - Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:08pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:03pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 29^th, 2023 at 4:24pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 29^th, 2023 at 3:23pm:

Quote:

You need to understand that totalitarianism is hard-wired to fail and collapse. It is inherently corrupt - as all its forms elsewhere in the 20th century have proved.

You need to understand that totalitarianism was a reaction against the evils of the capitalist world in the 19th century. Undoubtedly Marx would not have approved of the methods used to establish 'socialism', in Russia and China - they were largely subsistence agricultural economies, not the industrializing economy Marx had in mind.

Lenin had no problem with imposing a reign of terror on the newly formed Soviet Union. Stalin having usurped the state by exiling and murdering all contenders, lost count of how many Soviets he'd murdered after 10 million. Mao didn't bother counting but was ok with the murder of half the population of China if needed (300 million). Xi is ploughing his way to Mao-style numbers as the facade of the CCP's health care system is laid bare for the fraud that it is.

The number of Chinese living today in extreme poverty in China is estimated at over 100 million. Most will be dead by the end of the year.

So you don't understand the principle of reaction - in this case, against the evils of 19th century capitalism.

Meanwhile, s ince 1980 China has lifted more people out of poverty at a faster rate than any nation in history.

So you rant about others digging up Maoist past atrocities, then rant about 19th-century capitalism.

The CCP has published that it lifted more people out of poverty since 1980, but the CCP is currently congratulating itself on the success of its pandemic management. It does not acknowledge that absolute poverty is far from eradicated in China and any mention of it will get the reporter arrested and jailed for picking quarrels and causing trouble.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Why is China seen in the West as a threat?
Reply #138 - Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:51pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

So you rant about others digging up Maoist past atrocities, then rant about 19th-century capitalism.

Poor analysis: I point out that the CCP has evolved since Mao, so that since 1980 it has lifted more people out of poverty at a faster rate than any nation in history.

Meanwhile the evils of 19th century capitalism gave rise to central command states like Stalin's Russia and Mao's China, while capitalist excesses remain in the US and elsewhere (like 45,000 uninsured health deaths in the US per year)

Quote:

The CCP has published that it lifted more people out of poverty since 1980,

And the entire world - except apparently deluded "freedom values" ideologues like you, acknowledges the fact.

Quote:

but the CCP is currently congratulating itself on the success of its pandemic management.....

Change of topic won't save you

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It does not acknowledge that absolute poverty is far from eradicated in China and any mention of it will get the reporter arrested and jailed for picking quarrels and causing trouble.

China's per capita GDP is 5 times and more the level of 3rd world absolute poverty.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Why is China seen in the West as a threat?
Reply #139 - Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:57pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

So you rant about others digging up Maoist past atrocities, then rant about 19th-century capitalism.

Poor analysis: I point out that the CCP has evolved since Mao, so that since 1980 it has lifted more people out of poverty at a faster rate than any nation in history.

No it hasn't evolved. It's got more secretive about hiding atrocities. Using its surveillance technology, the CCP has quietly disappeared nearly everyone who held up a piece of blank paper in December, even arresting people who lived near by or were just walking past demonstrations.

The actual number of people lifted out of poverty will never be known as the CCP has fabricated, in its favour, every figure known about China and, given there is no independent reporting possible, it is now understood that all data about China is unreliable.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Why is China seen in the West as a threat?
Reply #140 - Jan 30^th, 2023 at 3:20pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:57pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

So you rant about others digging up Maoist past atrocities, then rant about 19th-century capitalism.

Poor analysis: I point out that the CCP has evolved since Mao, so that since 1980 it has lifted more people out of poverty at a faster rate than any nation in history.

No it hasn't evolved.

Poor anaysis. as usual.

We are talking about how to engender prosperity and eliminate poverty. China has created the world's largest middle class (400 million) in history , as well as lifting a billion out of 3rd world poverty, since 1980, at the fastest rate in history.

That's evolution.

Quote:

The actual number of people lifted out of poverty will never be known as the CCP has fabricated, in its favour, every figure known about China and, given there is no independent reporting possible, it is now understood that all data about China is unreliable.

Er...it's a fact China is now the biggest economy in the world by PPP - which relates to purchasing power inside any nation, to give comparisons of purchasing power within nations.

about $23 trillion in fact ...hefty enough to eliminate absolute poverty.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Why is China seen in the West as a threat?
Reply #141 - Jan 30^th, 2023 at 4:09pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 3:20pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:57pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 30^th, 2023 at 2:08pm:

So you rant about others digging up Maoist past atrocities, then rant about 19th-century capitalism.

Poor analysis: I point out that the CCP has evolved since Mao, so that since 1980 it has lifted more people out of poverty at a faster rate than any nation in history.

No it hasn't evolved.

Poor anaysis. as usual.

We are talking about how to engender prosperity and eliminate poverty. China has created the world's largest middle class (400 million) in history , as well as lifting a billion out of 3rd world poverty, since 1980, at the fastest rate in history.

That's evolution.

Quote:

The actual number of people lifted out of poverty will never be known as the CCP has fabricated, in its favour, every figure known about China and, given there is no independent reporting possible, it is now understood that all data about China is unreliable.

Er...it's a fact China is now the biggest economy in the world by PPP - which relates to purchasing power inside any nation, to give comparisons of purchasing power within nations.

about $23 trillion in fact ...hefty enough to eliminate absolute poverty.

China is on the verge of economic collapse.

There are only two things that concern CCP seniors, (and they're not how to engender prosperity and eliminate poverty): (1) how to get their money out of China and (2) where to escape to when the CCP collapses. The US/Canada, UK, Australia and Europe are likely closed off to them, which leaves Russia and maybe the middle east as the two most likely regions. Russia, of course, looks less attractive by the day, so the middle east is fast becoming the most likely.

Most have already got their families out.

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