Ragheads have been out to get him since the 1980s



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62524922?at_custom2=facebook_page&at_cu...

He is said to have been stabbed in the neck.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 8:51am:


He let his guard down, you can't do that with muslims, you've got to protect yourself the whole time everywhere you go

issuevoter wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 8:47am:

He was perceived as a "threat" by (fundamentalist) Moslems in the M.E. because he referred to the Koran as "The Satanic Verses". 

Just as I am likely to be considered a "threat" to (fundamentalist) Judaism when I refer to Jehovah as a genocidal bronze-age God, as stated in the OT itself. (eg 1 Samuel 15, 1-3). 

The difference is that Jews (and Christians] in the West have progressed through a cultural  "Enlightenment", so they will not so readily feel "threatened' by my (factual) statement.

Not so for the ME where any "enlightenment" is patchy at best.

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Well, a political dispute between democratic liberalism, and theocratic rule; just as there is a political dispute between democratic liberalism and rule by consensus one party 'autocracy'. (Theocracy is based on religious dogma, 'autocracy' is merely a different economic philosophy of government).

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No you wouldn't. Not all Moslems are fundamentalists,
and the Koran is merely an imperfect guide to a relationship with God, as is the OT - which unfortunately was combined with the NT in the first century AD, against the wishes of Marcion, an early compiler of the evolving NT canon.    

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Disputed above. Awareness that ALL scripture is the word of men, not the Word Of God, is the urgently required teaching  in the modern global world - especially in the 'backward' M.E.  countries.

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 1:14pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 1:26pm:


Haven't you heard? It was the same one Bwian/Gwoggy still go to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok

issuevoter wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:


Ditto to that

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 2:37pm:


The apologists always take that verse out of context when defending that backward belief called Islam.

Who are the children of Israel? 

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The next verse does apply to muslims which explains why Salman was attacked over a book.

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Salman was attacked over a book, Theo Van Gogh was killed over a movie and Charlie Hebdo employees were slaughtered over a few cartoons. This is the Islam apologists like you are so keen to defend.

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 4:28pm:


I already proved you wrong: Rabin's murderer is on the same level as Rushdie's attacker  (can't you read and comprehend?)

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How is pointing out that all scripture, especially the OT and its offshoot the Koran, needs to be read from an 'enlightenment' viewpoint...how is that "punishing  everyone else"?

If you intend to ban the Koran, you will have to ban the OT also (as Marcion wanted to do, in the first century).

I''ll pass on the authoritarian comment, you need to recognize the problem caused by an uncritical attitude toward "freedom of religion", at the global level.

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Of course, you know..the mob enslaved by Pharaoh.

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Muhammad plagiarized a lot from the Torah and the rest of the OT, including other Jewish texts he may have heard of or seen.   

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Because the Koran drew on Jewish sources other than, as well as the OT prophets.  

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That's because Islamic civilization fell into  backwardness for centuries. If you want to hasten Islam's 'enlightenment' - which you must in our  modern global world - then recognition of the limits
of plausibility of all scripture is necessary.

"Your religion is evil, but mine is good" ...doesn't cut the mustard.

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What do you mean "fell"?

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 6:10pm:



Stupid nonsense. Assassinating a head of government is NOT on the same level as as assassinating a private citizen like a novelist, a cartoonist, a film maker,  a teacher, a priest etc.  You are taking crap.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 9:27pm:


??

1. Both Rabin and Sadat were peacemakers;  they were both murdered by fundamentalist ideologues from their own side.

2. Muhammad failed to nominate his successor. Shia and Sunni have fought one another over the centuries....just as the early Christian sects fought one another (eg over the nature of Christ).


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I already pointed to the backwardness of the much of the Muslim world. You should read up on the religious wars among Christians in Europe, before the enlightenment.

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I already answered that; I will have to conclude you can't read or comprehend simple English. I am not "punishing everyone" by asking for an examination of the meaning of "religious freedom".

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I am protesting against the claims of ANY extant scripture to be the perfect, inerrant  'Word of God'.

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I already asked for your solutions to dealing with fundamentalist Islam in the modern world, you didn't answer. Give it a go. We know you don't want to ban the Koran, so what DO you propose, to hasten the enlightenment in Islam? 

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I love your appeal to the UN......and your defense of the "right" to believe in "fairy-tales", even when said "fairy- tales"  in the heads of ideologues turns them into murderers. Oh the joys of "freedom" (in this case, of religion).

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Wrong again. Everything in the Koran (including the contradictions) applies to Muslims. 

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As Jews will disagree on the  Torah and the Talmud's interpretations of it. 

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Already addressed. The murderous Inquisition had it's own understanding of the Bible....

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Wrong again, you are grossly distorting history.

Mahummad sought to bring a religion of  "One True God" to his countrymen who were living in polytheistic confusion and disorder in the 6th century. Jews had been settled in the south  of Arabia for centuries, so its no surprise the Koran draws on the OT stories; nevertheless the Koran has reservations about both Jews and Christians - the former "argumentative" and the latter "blasphemous" for believing God was crucified...

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That's like asking me to read the Talmud....no thanks, the Bible and the Koran have  satisfied my interest in scripture.

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Wrong again, Islamic Cordoba was a leading center of science and culture in the 10-11th century, when London and Paris were pigsties.

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Avicenna was a genius who happened to be born in the Muslim world during Islam's golden age.  His genius was 'god-given', same as all geniuses everywhere and throughout history.

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A question which explains your stance in this debate.  Never mind.

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2022 at 12:06pm:


Tony Abbott said Islam needs to have its enlightenment.   He is correct.

The question is - how will it happen?

In Europe it was brought about by dissemination of knowledge, not by suffering.

The same will have to happen in Islam.

Mixed messages from UNUDHR Article 18 re "freedom of religion" won't help.

The Muslims in the West should be made to pay and suffer for such atrocities. It is their collective responsibility.

This jihadist is 24 years old. The fatwa was declared by the gruesome Ayatollah in 1989 - 33 years ago, 9 years BEFORE this bastard was born by them.
This jihadi, like all the others, IS the responsibility of the Muslims around him and they should be made to suffer the consequences of raising such a jihadi viper  in the West, for concealing and enabling and tolerating him.

He, like other such jihadis, should be executed and his family and mosque associates deported. All further immigration by practicing Muslims should be stopped. Enough. ENOUGH.

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14^th, 2022 at 12:00am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 14^th, 2022 at 11:49pm:


Rabin's murder is not "off topic nonsense"; it's all about fundamentalist religious ideology wherever it occurs. 

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The entire religious Right in the US is expecting the return of Christ: and Pompeo's belief in Armageddon made him a very dangerous politician vis a vis other non-fundamentalist countries.

And here is an article dedicated to showing the Bible is NOT the Word of God, despite widespread belief to the contrary.   

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/04/the-bible-is-not-the-word-of-god-1/#:~:text=...

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I asked for your solution in my earlier post. I'm not aware of your writing over the last decade.

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There have been times of tolerance in Islam especially in Islam's Golden age,  7th to 12th century; and there can be again.

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1992/10/22/tolerance-among-muslims-christians-j...

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5, 32 is a verse of the Koran, therefore it applies to Muslims. The Children of Israel  are "Peoples of the Book". Sounds like you have discovered some clever scholarship  which purports to show 5, 32 doesn't apply to Muslims, but that is false .

In the Koran, "We"  as at the start of 5.32  "We  decreed.." signifies an utterance of God, in this case to evil "children of Israel", who needed to be taught the lesson that to murder one man is tantamount to murder of all Mankind.

But of course "We" (ie God), who is the 'One True God', must be worshiped (according to Muhammud) by all 'peoples of the book', including Muslims.   

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Well we both know 5,32 contradicts the Koran's prescribed  execution or amputations of limbs of criminals (and infidels); just as torture, burning at the stake  by the Inquisition (pre -enlightenment) contradicted Christ commandments, but not Jehovah's genocidal savagery. (1 Samuel 15, 1-3).   

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Refuted above.

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What ...writing by scholars determined to prove a particular  religion  can't experience enlightenment? Both the OT and the Koran posit God-ordained executions/genocide  for unbelievers, but the Bible is now constrained by  Western enlightenment.    We are still waiting for Islam's enlightenment. 

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Because Christians recaptured Spain (and Cordoba), and Mongols destroyed Baghdad (the other great centre of islamic civilization).

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Nonsense, Islam spread incredibly quickly around much of Eurasia and Africa,  and Islamic science prospered during the European dark ages.

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Scientists from all eras tend to be atheists....


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Addressed above. Ibn Sina's relationship with the spiritual realm was known only to him.

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That's the usual copout for ideologues.

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 15^th, 2022 at 1:40pm:


What stupid crap - now the Jews are responsible for lack of Islamic development. What stupid, Islamist nonsense: "it's the Jews!!"

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 15^th, 2022 at 1:40pm:


How?

Can we only teach Muslims to stop slaughtering people unless they are constantly appeased by appeasing them?

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 13^th, 2022 at 4:07pm:


Should China join in, do you think?

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 15^th, 2022 at 7:00pm:



The Rushdie Attack
He was assaulted by an enemy of free speech while about to speak in defense of free speech, a principle of which he has been a staunch and brave supporter.
Theodore Dalrymple
August 13, 2022 The Social Order
The man suspected of the attack on Salman Rushdie, Hadi Matar, grew up in the United States and was born nine years after Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini issued his notorious fatwa. Little else is known of him, though some people acquainted with him earlier in his life have told reporters that (as is often the way in such cases) that they were surprised by his action, for he seemed a normal and friendly person.

If Matar’s profile is confirmed, it will demonstrate once again the effect that a violent, aggressive, and totalitarian ideology may exert on people, though the question remains as to whether ideologies choose men, or men choose ideologies. No doubt a dialectical relationship exists between personality and ideology.

Future histories will see the Salman Rushdie affair, which followed the publication in 1988 of his novel, The Satanic Verses, as a pivotal moment in the history of Islamism: for the British response, and that of the West as a whole, was weak and vacillating, encouraging Islamists to imagine that the West was a kind of rotten fruit, ripe to fall from the tree, and therefore susceptible to terrorist attack. The Rushdie affair was to Islamists what the annexation of Crimea was to Vladimir Putin, or, indeed, the occupation of the Saarland to Hitler.

Britain did break off diplomatic relations with Iran over the matter but restored them when the regime softened its stance somewhat: it said that it would neither help nor hinder attempts to kill Rushdie. Naturally, Britain did not break relations off again after the regime hardened its stance and announced that the fatwa stood as before.

Internally in Britain, no one was prosecuted for having publicly called for the death of Rushdie, a call clearly not meant metaphorically. This inaction, no doubt, was designed to keep the peace, to avoid creating martyrs, and so on—a Danegeld payment—but Islamists interpreted it as weakness, cowardice, and a lack of real commitment to the expressed principles of liberal democracy. Again, they saw the fruit as rotten and ripe for falling.

In this, they were not entirely correct. For many in Britain, Rushdie was not a completely admirable or likeable figure. He was certainly not complimentary about Margaret Thatcher, prime minister at the time, who nevertheless defended him. In 1982, for example, he wrote an essay that begins:

Britain isn’t South Africa. I am reliably informed of this. Nor is it Nazi Germany. I’ve got that on the best authority as well. So let me concede that . . . Auschwitz hasn’t been rebuilt in the Home Counties. I find it odd, however, that those who use such absences as defences rarely perceive that their own statements indicate how serious things have become. Because if the defence for Britain is that mass extermination of racially impure persons hasn’t yet begun, or that the principle of white supremacy hasn’t actually been enshrined in the constitution, then something must have gone very wrong indeed.

This is unpleasant and stupid. It implies that the absence of Auschwitz was a fact of minor significance—or, as the French nationalist politician Jean-Marie Le Pen put it in another context, that the Holocaust was but an historical detail. The logic does not do much credit to Rushdie’s expensive education. It is as if the denial by a man accused of having committed a murder were taken to show just how bad he really was, if all he could say in his defense was that he didn’t do it.

Despite having likened the British government to a Nazi regime, Rushdie was protected by it at public expense for several years—and rightly so. Free speech must be defended, irrespective of whether those who exercise it are wholly admirable. The person does not defend free speech who demands only that those with whom he agrees should be heard or free to speak.

Salman Rushdie is hospitalized and in apparently serious condition; “the news is not good,” his agent says. Rushdie was attacked by an enemy of free speech while about to speak in defense of free speech, a principle of which he has been a staunch and brave supporter. His assailant and likeminded others are believers in an alien ideology that we find repellent. But are they the only—or even the main—threat to free speech in the West today?
https://www.city-journal.org/rushdie-attack

'Twitter is more than ready to label you as “fake news” or “disinformation” – and even cancel you, permanently. But, if you want to gloat and glory at the stabbing of a novelist and hail it as a great day for Islam and all believers, Twitter’s all cool with that.'

https://mobile.twitter.com/GBoNEWS/status/1559263566070534145


Monday's edition of The Mark Steyn Show started and ended with the attack on Salman Rushdie. Yasmine Mohammed joined Mark to look at the terrible, remorseless retreat of free speech.

Next up was Dr Ros Jones to look at a certain amount of artful re-positioning on the Covid vaccines and their benefits. Eva Vlaardingerbroek checked in to discuss social media's disinclination to accept wider bounds of debate, and we rounded out the hour with Kelvin MacKenzie on the staggering immigration numbers that will surely break England.


From 7'

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2022 at 10:38am:

"Investigators hunt for motivation"

- (in video, re: Rushdie attack)

Pretty dumb investigators, I'd give them just five minutes to figure out the motive, if they took longer, I'd sack them

Captain Nemo wrote on Aug 16^th, 2022 at 11:38am:


Priceless. But don't forget: Islamic push back against fundamentalist Jewish WB-settler claims to "The Promised Land" resulted in the 9/11 attacks.

There are always two opposing views in the political spectrum.

The reference to "children of Israel" in verse 5 32 of the Quran is referring to muslims.

Its mind-numbingly obvious. Baron is quite literally the only person on earth who believes otherwise.

But lets not begrudge him this 'creative' piece of thinking - its been the crown jewel in his anti-Islam diatribes for well over a decade.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 16^th, 2022 at 2:59pm:



Yet 5,32 is an admonition from God (Allah) to Muslims;
to paraphrase; 5,30: "(Cain's) soul prompted him to kill his brother"; 5,31: "he became remorseful" ...

so 5,32, "We (ie, God or Allah) decreed to the Children of Israel; "if a man kills another..." etc. 

This decree applying to Muslims as ordained by the  Koran also.

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Ex muslims no doubt, making a simple error in logic, they say a decree made by God to Jews in the OT doesn't apply to Muslims, because it was made to the "Children of Israel". But God's (Allah's)  decrees, as revealed in the Koran,  are universal for all time, ie Allah is the same God who spoke to Jews a thousand years and more before Muhammad.

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Your error is  explained above.

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 16^th, 2022 at 1:24pm:


Oh, I see. Sorry, Great. I must have read you wrong.

By "re-examined", you must mean BANNED, no?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2022 at 3:48pm:



CONTRADICTIONS

1/
ACCORDING TO ISLAM....
When mohamedans, TODAY, speak of scripture, they do not venerate the holy books of Israel ['the law and the prophets'].

Why is that ?

The mohamedans, of TODAY, venerate the Holy Koran, and ONLY the Koran [the writings of Mohammed].

QUESTION;
If [as mohammedans claim] the ancient Israelis were mohhamedans, why don't the mohamedans of TODAY venerate the ancient holy books of Israel [i.e. as all Jews and Christians do] ?


.


2/
ACCORDING TO ISLAM....
....mohamedans make the claim that all of the ancient Israelis, including Moses and Jacob, were mohamedans.

Mohamedans also claim is that Jesus too is a mohamedan [a prophet of ISLAM].

And yet we witness Jesus, in his sayings, repeatedly acknowledging the ancient holy books of Israel [the validity of the Old Testament - 'the law and the prophets'].


Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40  And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35  If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36  Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


.


3/
ACCORDING TO ['original'] ISLAM....
.....the ancient holy books of Israel cannot be corrupted.

How so ?

Well, Mohammed himself, stated that Allah was protecting the ancient holy books of Israel.

It is written [in original ISLAMIC scripture], that Mohammed venerated the Torah, and Mohammed declared that the Torah was a scripture which was eternally protected, by Allah.



Yadda wrote on Jan 19^th, 2011 at 10:22am:



.









And the Koran states very clearly, that those scriptures which had 'come before', to Moses and Jesus, had actually been protected by Allah! ..., 'confirming the scripture that came before it [i.e. before the Koran], and guarding it in safety' .


"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein......
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:......."
Koran 5.46-48

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 16^th, 2022 at 11:51pm:


I see. So you're willing to let up on Falun Gong, eh?

How about Buddhists? Any plans to guarantee any freedoms?

Cheers.

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 17^th, 2022 at 1:09pm:



OBSERVATION;
When Allah established his new, 'perfect' religion, ISLAM, if he is the I AM,
he [God] must have had a personality transplant.  !!!

Below, read how the God of the Jews [the I AM] expresses himself,
and then, compare, how the God of ISLAM expresses himself.



e.g.


The treatment of strangers ['unbelievers'] under the law of Moses;



Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Leviticus 25:47-49
[these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19

For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger

, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...




+++


Whereas,



"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 3.028

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 4.144

"O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him."
Koran 9.123

"Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment."
Koran 18.102

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other......"
Koran 48.029

"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed."
Koran 9.073
Koran 66.009

"Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 002.216


.

But where is the evidence that Allah and the I AM, are the same god ?







[/quote]

Quote:

freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2022 at 5:57pm:


And yet their lessons and teachings are still very much part of Christian doctrine - as they are for Islamic doctrine.

Also, "muslim" is not equivalent to "christian" - as in a follower specifically of a man named Christ. Otherwise we would call ourselves "Muhammadens". According to Islam, people who "submit" to the one true God did not suddenly appear when the Quran appeared - they have existed since the very first human - Adam - himself a prophet in Islam. The Quran describes Abraham, whom Israel and his sons were descendants of, was specifically referred to as a "muslim" - and specifically *NOT* a jew:

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim (arabic: مُسلِماََ).
3:67

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I don't. I assume Islam makes sense to muslims. And what obviously does *NOT* make sense is that muslims revere Islamic prophets that they don't even believe were muslims. Especially when the Quran itself describes their forefather as a muslim.

Yadda wrote on Aug 18^th, 2022 at 8:22am:


Of course he did, because Allah is ("the one true") God of Abraham

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Which is true,  but these "peoples of the book' have differentt 'books' ...and  make the mistake of claiming their respective scriptures are THE "Word of God"....

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Explained above; the god of Abraham was revealed in books written centuries after Abraham lived...including the later NT and Koran.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 18^th, 2022 at 3:38pm:




Quote:




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Baron it's really simple: The god of Abraham is the god of ...the children of Israel... and Christians...and Muslims.

The books of all three "peoples of the book" were written long after Abraham lived.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 18^th, 2022 at 3:48pm:


Baron it's really simple: The god of Abraham is the god of ...the children of Israel... and Christians...and Muslims.

The books of all three "peoples of the book" were written long after Abraham lived.

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 18^th, 2022 at 4:07pm:


He believed in Abraham's God. 

"According to the Islamic statement of witness, or shahada, “There is no god but Allah”. Muslims believe he created the world in six days and sent prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, and lastly Muhammad, who called people to worship only him, rejecting idolatry and polytheism."

Here is a list of Muslim preachers and apologists who have condemned the attack on Salman Rushdie:
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Australian Muslim leaders and apologists:

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thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 18^th, 2022 at 3:32pm:



.....because Allah is ("the one true") God of Abraham


Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1376013300/121#121
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