Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 30
th, 2022 at 6:23pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 29
th, 2022 at 2:07pm:
The only thing I came here to dispute was Baron's absurd line (that he's been repeating over and over as one of his favourite 'go-to' arguments against Islam for the last decade and more) - that Islamic doctrine itself - specifically verse 5-32 - is not applicable to muslims because it refers to "bani Israel". Or in other words, that muslims themselves don't believe that many of the Quranic commands - including some emanating from their own prophets - apply to them.
You would presumably agree with me when you say things like "What Muslims believe after Mohammed is precisely what makes them Mohammedan."
If 5/32 means what apologists and muslims claim it means why do they always leave out the first bit mentioning children of Israel?
I already explained that to you, are you blind? (....yes). eternal 'Allah' was eternal 'Jehovah' to Jews in the OT days. Muhammud merely revealed the final revelation of God, in the Koran (according to the Koran). Nothing 'apologetic' about that.
5,32 is merely restating (in the 7th century) Allah/Jehovah's "thou shalt not kill' commandment, for all men including Muslims, as Jehovah/Allah did for bronze age Jews (while authorizing genocide at the same time....)
Quote:If 5/32 applied to muslims then surely the moderates would be able to silence the fundamentalists who do Jihad (Islamic terror) by quoting that verse yet for some reason this doesn't happen.
Read 5,32 again - it contains an "except for murderers and those spreading corruption" ie infidels" clause......
Quote:If 5/32 applies to muslims why did Qadri need 600 pages for his fatwa to outlaw Islamic terror surely he could have just quoted 5/32 which he didn't.
Addressed above: 5,32 refered to those who the commandment/decree doesn't apply.
Quote:Because of that,
We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul
unless for a soul (ie to save a soul, in the Spanish Inquisition manner of saving a soul....) or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
https://legacy.quran.com/5/32As we can see with Muhsin Khans translation here children of Israel = Jews. Bit in brackets doesn't appear in Quran
.
Muhammud, as God's last prophet, is merely recognizing the Jews were favoured by God/Allah; as Muslims are favoured by God's final revelation in the Koran.
Quote:O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.
Correct, and addressed above.