Australian Politics Forum - The question about a voice will be asked...

Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #165 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:33pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:19pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:02pm:

In short, what will be NEW and EFFECTIVE about the Voice?

Nothing, except it will highlight the incapacity of government - given current funding constraints enforced by greedy cabals of private financiers (aka central bankers) - to effectively intervene in the nation's pressing economic problems.

So why change to constitution then, for something we know already without changing the constitution?

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #166 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:35pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:10pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 2:19pm:

No silly - your comment about 'your job to bring pain'... what a way to claim to view the world.... you claim we ordinary folk 'bring pain' to Abos and such by doing not one thing to them, but you feel fine with coming here to inflict your idea of pain on others to get your way....

The neoliberal 'survival of the fittest' horror story which you regard as gospel, is the cause of most pain in the world.

Therefore it's only fitting you should feel the pain..

Quote:

That's a Lefty (capital L) thing... that and the smugness of your own belief in your own superiority and supreme knowledge.... Grin

What makes you imagine I regard it as gospel? Can you read my posts? English, lad... English!!

Nothing smug or superior about recognizing the evils of our dog eat dog/survival of the fittest neoliberal system based on self-interest alone.

Intelligent government intervention - an oxymoron. Governments have an incredible social libido - they f**k everything they can get their hands on.

the fact that you assume about others and then assume the absolute righteousness of your position is smug.

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #167 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:37pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:55pm:

Frank said it's a political issue, you say it's a social issue, you are both wrong, it's an economic issue.
"It's the economy, stupid." ...your evil survival of the fittest economy, to be exact.

It is actually a cultural issue. Politics and economics are downstream from culture.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #168 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:42pm

Frank wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:37pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:55pm:

Frank said it's a political issue, you say it's a social issue, you are both wrong, it's an economic issue.
"It's the economy, stupid." ...your evil survival of the fittest economy, to be exact.

It is actually a cultural issue. Politics and economics are downstream from culture.

Well - culture is a social issue sort of and creating an Apartheid Voice is a social issue, not a cultural one, other than in that it changes OUR culture to suit a minority again.

Complex - not really.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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John Smith

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #169 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:49pm

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:27pm:

The government will not be able to touch it.

crap. Govt. can change it however they see fit. The only constant is that it exists in some way shape or form

The government can change it in whatever way they can get away with, politically. They will have a far greater incentive to use it as a voice for the government than to make it work as a genuine voice for aboriginal people.

hows that any different from what govt., can do now?

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #170 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:59pm

The only genuine, effective voice by and for Aborigines - as for any other group - is the voice of their own conscience telling them what they need to do to make their lives better.

They will get - have been getting - all the help others can give them. But they need to find the will and the direction themselves, nobody can MAKE them improve their lives except themselves. They needed no central government for 40 thousand years to tell them how to survive. Governments have been told everything and the opposite of everything about how to help them, and they have done it all. It makes no difference to the Aborigines - or anyone else - who still lurches for the bottle, the drugs, the culture of self-debasement.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #171 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:46pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:27pm:

The government will not be able to touch it.

crap. Govt. can change it however they see fit. The only constant is that it exists in some way shape or form

The government can change it in whatever way they can get away with, politically. They will have a far greater incentive to use it as a voice for the government than to make it work as a genuine voice for aboriginal people.

hows that any different from what govt., can do now?

So you're voting NO? OK ......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #172 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:48pm

"The government can change it in whatever way they can get away with, politically. They will have a far greater incentive to use it as a voice for the government than to make it work as a genuine voice for aboriginal people. "

Ain't that the truth... so our basic mistrust lies with what government will do with it. It's all lies.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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freediver

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #173 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:50pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:27pm:

The government will not be able to touch it.

crap. Govt. can change it however they see fit. The only constant is that it exists in some way shape or form

The government can change it in whatever way they can get away with, politically. They will have a far greater incentive to use it as a voice for the government than to make it work as a genuine voice for aboriginal people.

hows that any different from what govt., can do now?

Great point John. The only difference is a pointless, expensive, time consuming and potentially dangerous change to the constitution.

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freediver

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #174 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:52pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 2:28pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 1:16pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 9:07am:

As you said there is no necessity for a voice to parliament based on race.
It is a divisive path to take.

Correct - but the problem of aboriginals living in 3rd world poverty, and the very real and shameful existence of 'the gap', is a national disgrace which must be solved.

So in other words more pandering/babying/ patronising..... yes?

No. Enabling intelligent government intervention.

Like the CCP starving 50 million Chinese to death by trying to distribute food equally?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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John Smith

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #175 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:52pm

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:27pm:

The government will not be able to touch it.

crap. Govt. can change it however they see fit. The only constant is that it exists in some way shape or form

The government can change it in whatever way they can get away with, politically. They will have a far greater incentive to use it as a voice for the government than to make it work as a genuine voice for aboriginal people.

hows that any different from what govt., can do now?

Great point John. The only difference is a pointless, expensive, time time consuming and potentially dangerous change to the constitution.

I know you always struggle to follow the bouncing ball but who said it was pointless? What I said was that it was no different from what they do was in reference to govts manipulating it to their own ends.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #176 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:53pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:46pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:27pm:

The government will not be able to touch it.

crap. Govt. can change it however they see fit. The only constant is that it exists in some way shape or form

The government can change it in whatever way they can get away with, politically. They will have a far greater incentive to use it as a voice for the government than to make it work as a genuine voice for aboriginal people.

hows that any different from what govt., can do now?

So you're voting NO? OK ......

I was undecided but I'm going to vote yes just so that I can laugh at your tears once it comes in

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« Last Edit: Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:59pm by John Smith »

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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freediver

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #177 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:55pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:27pm:

The government will not be able to touch it.

crap. Govt. can change it however they see fit. The only constant is that it exists in some way shape or form

The government can change it in whatever way they can get away with, politically. They will have a far greater incentive to use it as a voice for the government than to make it work as a genuine voice for aboriginal people.

hows that any different from what govt., can do now?

Great point John. The only difference is a pointless, expensive, time time consuming and potentially dangerous change to the constitution.

I know you always struggle to follow the bouncing ball but who said it was pointless? What I said was that it was no different from what they do was in reference to govts manipulating it to their own ends.

Pretty much everyone, in one way or the other. You are correct that it will achieve nothing that the government cannot already do, and will be manipulated for the benefit of the government, not aboriginal people.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #178 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:56pm

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 3:27pm:

The government will not be able to touch it.

crap. Govt. can change it however they see fit. The only constant is that it exists in some way shape or form

The government can change it in whatever way they can get away with, politically. They will have a far greater incentive to use it as a voice for the government than to make it work as a genuine voice for aboriginal people.

hows that any different from what govt., can do now?

Great point John. The only difference is a pointless, expensive, time consuming and potentially dangerous change to the constitution.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 77082 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #179 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:58pm freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 5:55pm: Pretty much everyone, in one way or the other. that tends to happen in your echo chamber. But out in the real world, thats not whats being said.
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Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?
YES 11 (28.9%) NO 27 (71.1%) Total votes: 38 « Created by: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM on: Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:27pm »