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EV batteries are dangerous. (Read 10139 times)
AusGeoff
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #45 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 7:34am
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 2:47pm:
Even AA lithium batteries are dangerous ... 

https://youtu.be/cTJh_bzI0QQ

Interesting video, thanks.

Lithium-ion batteries don't use elemental (metal) lithium. They typically contain
a lithium-metal oxide, such as lithium-cobalt oxide (LiCoO2) which supplies the
lithium-ions, hence the name.

Drop a Li-ion cell into water, and absolutely nothing will happen.


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John_Taverner
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #46 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 8:11am
 
Bobby. wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 8:20am:
I wasn't discussing the likelihood of EV fires.....


Good! You now recognise where you went wrong.
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John_Taverner
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #47 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 8:26am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 7:34am:
Interesting video, thanks.

Lithium-ion batteries don't use elemental (metal) lithium. They typically contain
a lithium-metal oxide, such as lithium-cobalt oxide (LiCoO2) which supplies the
lithium-ions, hence the name.

Drop a Li-ion cell into water, and absolutely nothing will happen.



Correct, but they can catch fire if overheated. Modern designs make that much less likely though.

However there is such a thing as a lithium metal battery.  They are made for special purposes and are not usually rechargeable.

Ironically the newest design is even safer than the Lithium ion batteries currently in use and have a higher energy density.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-return-of-the-lithiummetal-battery
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Bobby.
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #48 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 8:32am
 
John_Taverner wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 8:11am:
Bobby. wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 8:20am:
I wasn't discussing the likelihood of EV fires.....


Good! You now recognise where you went wrong.



Don't half quote a sentence -
the whole sentence was

Quote:
I wasn't discussing the likelihood of EV fires as per an insurance risk assessment.
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John_Taverner
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #49 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 11:59am
 
Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 8:32am:
John_Taverner wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 8:11am:
Bobby. wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 8:20am:
I wasn't discussing the likelihood of EV fires.....


Good! You now recognise where you went wrong.



Don't half quote a sentence -
the whole sentence was

Quote:
I wasn't discussing the likelihood of EV fires as per an insurance risk assessment.


- but you don't deny the fact that you didn't consider the likelihood of EV Fires in any context. Right?
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John_Taverner
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #50 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 12:12pm
 
If you had actually researched the likelihood, you would have found something like this study.

https://belux.edmo.eu/fact-check-do-electric-cars-catch-fire-more-often-than-com...

Quote:
A major insurance company in the United States recently conducted a study. Electric cars, according to the study, are in fact the least likely to catch fire. 25.1 out of every 100,000 electric vehicles sold caught fire. For the same number of combustion engine cars, 1,529.9 caught fire.


So the next time you post something sensationaist, do everybody a favour and consider the comparative likelihood.

We currently have almost 8 billion people on the planet. So far only two people have been struck by meteorites. The likelihood is very low.

The likelihood of an eloectric car fire is much lower than that of an ICE car.

Let's put this one to bed.
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lee
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #51 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 12:44pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 12:12pm:
If you had actually researched the likelihood, you would have found something like this study.


Now tell us how easy lithium fires are to put out as opposed to diesel or petrol fires.
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John_Taverner
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #52 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 2:37pm
 
lee wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 12:44pm:
John_Taverner wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 12:12pm:
If you had actually researched the likelihood, you would have found something like this study.


Now tell us how easy lithium fires are to put out as opposed to diesel or petrol fires.


Put it this way: By the time the fire service arrive, all three are burnt out, depending on how much fuel is in the tank. All fire service appliances here in Queensland carry F-500EA extinguishers.

Don't try to extinguish a vehicle fire yourself. There is too much risk of explosion and toxic fumes regardless of the vehicle type. The Fire service uses Breathing Apparatus.
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lee
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #53 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 3:42pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 2:37pm:
By the time the fire service arrive, all three are burnt out, depending on how much fuel is in the tank


And the motorists involved likely dead if a lithium ion fire. Lithium fumes are extremely toxic.

Our brigade has BA equipment. We are still told to stand 600m upwind. We don't have F-500 EA extinguishers.
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John_Taverner
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #54 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 5:44pm
 
lee wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 3:42pm:
John_Taverner wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 2:37pm:
By the time the fire service arrive, all three are burnt out, depending on how much fuel is in the tank


And the motorists involved likely dead if a lithium ion fire. Lithium fumes are extremely toxic.

Our brigade has BA equipment. We are still told to stand 600m upwind. We don't have F-500 EA extinguishers.


It's very unlikely that the motorists would be dead, although the fumes are indeed toxic and corrosive. (Phosphoryl fluoride and Hydrogen Fluoride). 

I am a Hazmat adviser by the way. The HAG always errs on the conservative side.  Are you a volunteer or a regular?
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lee
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #55 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 6:11pm
 
I am a Volunteer in a country Brigade. No full timers here.
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John_Taverner
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #56 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 9:54pm
 
OK. I'm not sure what other States do, but in Queensland we're very lucky as far as HAZMAT is concerned. Here, the Rurals mainly deal with bushfires. In fact they are the competent authority for bushfires.  The CFA in Victoria and WA, and the CFS in SA are pretty similar.

HAZMAT reponse everywhere else in Australia is less developed and very centralised.

I'd be very surprised if the full time stations don't have F-500 extinguishers.
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #57 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 10:03pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 11:59am:
Bobby. wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 8:32am:
John_Taverner wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 8:11am:
Bobby. wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 8:20am:
I wasn't discussing the likelihood of EV fires.....


Good! You now recognise where you went wrong.



Don't half quote a sentence -
the whole sentence was

Quote:
I wasn't discussing the likelihood of EV fires as per an insurance risk assessment.


- but you don't deny the fact that you didn't consider the likelihood of EV Fires in any context. Right?



I said they were dangerous.

QED.

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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #58 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 10:03pm
 
Oh, by the way, while partisans argue the toss, the fact that EVs are going to displace most motor vehicles used by the general public, does not mean the end of the internal combustion engine. It will be with us for a very long time. Part of the reason is the vulnerability of the charging network in times of disaster.
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lee
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Re: EV batteries are dangerous.
Reply #59 - Sep 1st, 2022 at 11:45am
 
John_Taverner wrote on Aug 31st, 2022 at 9:54pm:
OK. I'm not sure what other States do, but in Queensland we're very lucky as far as HAZMAT is concerned.


A question How close to a lithium fire do you need to be to uses an F-500 EA? Considering they burn hot enough to melt steel, I wouldn't have thought that close.

Edit: I see they have a 1 litre container to fit on a fire hose. On a firefighters forum they say it is expensive but better than Class B foam.
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« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2022 at 11:55am by lee »  
 
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