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Teal Independents (Read 2928 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #75 - May 26th, 2022 at 5:31pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 3:34pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 3:08pm:
freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2022 at 3:28pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on May 22nd, 2022 at 2:21pm:
I just hope Labor does no deals with the Greens.

The Greens gave up on the environment long ago. Neoliberalism is where they are at.

The Greens stopped the two efforts Labor made to price carbon. They will always be a fringe party because their actions belie their words.


What planet are you on Monk? The only reason we had a carbon tax is because Labor under Gillard was forced to negotiate with the greens to form minority government.


Labor policy. Labor wanted variable pricing, the neoliberals pretending to be environmentalists insisted on fixed price “for a trial” and abbott just ended the trial.


You are confused:  Lib, Lab and Greens are all deluded by mainstream neoliberal orthodoxy. 

So the argument between all of them was how to price carbon, to act as a price signal  in the free market. But the electorate rejects carbon pricing/taxes because they lift prices for energy...costing 5 Oz PM's their jobs in a decade.   

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The greens no longer give a stuff about the environment, have not for a long time.


Continuing  your confusion: the Greens are still working to save old growth forests,  along with other environmental issues...and climate change. 


Sure they are! Many fine words orated, totally unsupported by action.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #76 - May 26th, 2022 at 6:14pm
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #77 - May 26th, 2022 at 6:27pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 5:31pm:
Sure they are! Many fine words orated, totally unsupported by action.


A cursory attempt at debate, ignoring most of the post.....

Anyway,

(guick google;  Greens' environment policy):

"Green Australia by investing $24.4 billion over the next decade, including by restoring wildlife habitat, planting 2 billion trees by 2030 and reestablishing green space in our cities, regions and suburbs. End native forest logging to help reduce fire risk, and transition workers into sustainable plantation forestry."

Not enough for you? 

Let's see what they can achieve  in the Senate, if they have the balance of power....despite the disaster of the current neoliberal economic and monetary orthodoxy with its flat-earth "balanced budget" dogma.   

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Jovial Monk
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #78 - May 26th, 2022 at 6:39pm
 
Lol, more words no action and I am supposed to be impressed?

Son, the Greens been schmoozing wealthy inner city folk for some years now. These rich people want to feel good about themselves “environmentally aware—i have solar panels!” These nice people do NOT want to pay more tax or {whatever} and so the greens prostituted themselves and became neoliberals—nice line of oratory about the environment, no action to back it up, never will be action!
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #79 - May 26th, 2022 at 11:00pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 6:39pm:
Lol, more words no action and I am supposed to be impressed?


You are supposed to be capable of debate. Implementing policy requires control of government.

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Son, the Greens been schmoozing wealthy inner city folk for some years now.


Saving old growth forests, along with the Great Barrier Reef, and closing the environmentally harmful  fossil industry -  is not "schmoozing wealthy inner city folk".

Bob Brown drove his Greens bus up to the far regions of Qld. in the 2019 election, and was rejected because he didn't explain to coal and gas workers in the regions how they could transition to  well-paid jobs in the green economy. 


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These rich people want to feel good about themselves “environmentally aware—i have solar panels!”


As I said, many Teal voters in the wealthiest electorates don't have to bother with solar panels, even if they own top of the line Teslas. 

Quote:
These nice people do NOT want to pay more tax or {whatever} and so the greens prostituted themselves and became neoliberals


Please educate yourself about neoliberal economics, which was first  adopted by the Reagan and Thatcher governments  in the 80's. Greens did not have a Federal party at that time.

If anyone prostituted themselves,  it was the Hawke-Keating government, which is why Hawke mistakenly believed he had to  reintroduce uni fees (which had been abolished by Whitlam in 1972) to 'balance the budget.

Even Menzies - before the inadequacies  of neoliberal economics created  "the First World rust belt"  -  knew the government can run continuous deficits, which is how he funded housing and employment for everyone (unemployment in the Menzies era was less than - wait for it - 2%, and he funded the Public Housing Dept).       

Quote:
—nice line of oratory about the environment, no action to back it up, never will be action!


They need to be able to at least shape government, to do that.
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« Last Edit: May 26th, 2022 at 11:18pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #80 - May 26th, 2022 at 11:01pm
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #81 - May 26th, 2022 at 11:37pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 11:01pm:
.


Another non-debater who doesn't under neoliberal economics  (see #69), and so hides  behind one  Alexandra Marshall who claims labor, greens and teals "only care about their investment portfolios."

What a fraud, as if wealthy Libs and the 'big end of town' don't care about their investment portfolios. 

And the biggest tax avoiders are of course to be found among the big end of town.

But yes, the current neoliberal economic orthodoxy insisting on the 'balanced budget' myth means timely funding  for a green transition is impossible, because no-one wants to pay higher taxes, while the self-interested private sector want to maintain their  fat fossil profits.    

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Baronvonrort
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #82 - May 27th, 2022 at 12:15am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 11:37pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 11:01pm:
.


Another non-debater who doesn't under neoliberal economics    



There is no point in wasting time with idiots like you.

Take your voodoo economics and shove it where the sun don't shine.
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« Last Edit: May 27th, 2022 at 12:24am by Baronvonrort »  

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #83 - May 28th, 2022 at 4:43pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on May 27th, 2022 at 12:15am:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 11:37pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 11:01pm:
.


Another non-debater who doesn't under neoliberal economics    



There is no point in wasting time with idiots like you.

Take your voodoo economics and shove it where the sun don't shine.


revealing the zero mental capacity of Conservative ideologues to engage in debate. ....as expected from   Conservative delusional "natural rights",  'survival of the fittest',  'invisible hand',  free market neoliberal ideologues.



 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #84 - May 29th, 2022 at 8:12pm
 
Quote:
Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills


Companies are searching for ways to deal with the tens of thousands of blades that have reached the end of their lives.

A wind turbine’s blades can be longer than a Boeing 747 wing, so at the end of their lifespan they can’t just be hauled away. First, you need to saw through the lissome fiberglass using a diamond-encrusted industrial saw to create three pieces small enough to be strapped to a tractor-trailer.

The municipal landfill in Casper, Wyoming, is the final resting place of 870 blades whose days making renewable energy have come to end. The severed fragments look like bleached whale bones nestled against one another.

Tens of thousands of aging blades are coming down from steel towers around the world and most have nowhere to go but landfills. In the U.S. alone, about 8,000 will be removed in each of the next four years. Europe, which has been dealing with the problem longer, has about 3,800 coming down annually through at least 2022, according to BloombergNEF. It’s going to get worse: Most were built more than a decade ago, when installations were less than a fifth of what they are now.

Built to withstand hurricane-force winds, the blades can’t easily be crushed, recycled or repurposed. That’s created an urgent search for alternatives in places that lack wide-open prairies. In the U.S., they go to the handful of landfills that accept them, in Lake Mills, Iowa; Sioux Falls, South Dakota; and Casper, where they will be interred in stacks that reach 30 feet under.

“The wind turbine blade will be there, ultimately, forever,” said Bob Cappadona, chief operating officer for the North American unit of Paris-based Veolia Environnement SA, which is searching for better ways to deal with the massive waste. “Most landfills are considered a dry tomb.”

“The last thing we want to do is create even more environmental challenges.”


To prevent catastrophic climate change caused by burning fossil fuels, many governments and corporations have pledged to use only clean energy by 2050. Wind energy is one of the cheapest ways to reach that goal.

The first wind farm in the U.S. was installed in New Hampshire in 1980, and California deployed thousands of turbines east of San Francisco across the Altamont Pass.

After 1992, when Congress passed a tax credit, manufacturers invested in taller and more powerful designs. Their steel tubes rose 260 feet and sported swooping fiberglass blades.

Wind power is carbon-free and about 85% of turbine components, including steel, copper wire, electronics and gearing can be recycled or reused. But the fiberglass blades remain difficult to dispose of. With some as long as a football field, big rigs can only carry one at a time, making transportation costs prohibitive for long-distance hauls. Scientists are trying to find better ways to separate resins from fibers or to give small chunks new life as pellets or boards.

In the European Union, which strictly regulates material that can go into landfills, some blades are burned in kilns that create cement or in power plants. But their energy content is weak and uneven and the burning fiberglass emits pollutants.

Casper is happy to take the thousand blades from three in-state wind farms owned by Berkshire Hathaway Inc.’s PacifiCorp. Warren Buffett’s utility has been replacing the original blades and turbines with larger, more powerful models after a decade of operation.

In the meantime, Bratvold and his co-workers have set aside about a half dozen blades and in coming months, they’ll experiment with methods to squeeze them into smaller footprints. They’ve tried bunkers, berms and even crushing them with the bulldozer, but the tracks kept slipping off the smooth blades. There’s little time to waste. Spring is coming, and when it does, the inexorable march of blades will resume.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-...



These fiberglass turbine blades have a limited fatigue life they're junk after 10 years.

They have to be cooked around 70 deg C for epoxy resin to set while under vacum bag a lot of energy used to create them.

Warren Buffet was one of the first to invest in wind farms what does he say about them?

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« Last Edit: May 29th, 2022 at 8:20pm by Baronvonrort »  

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #85 - May 30th, 2022 at 2:55pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on May 29th, 2022 at 8:12pm:
These fiberglass turbine blades have a limited fatigue life they're junk after 10 years.


Google reports life span of 20 years.

Quote:
They have to be cooked around 70 deg C for epoxy resin to set while under vacum bag a lot of energy used to create them.


https://blog.ucsusa.org/james-gignac/wind-turbine-blades-recycling/


"This form of recycling involves control of the disposal supply chain—including sawing the turbine blades into smaller pieces at the decommissioning site to decrease transportation logistics and costs. The process promises 100 percent recycling and reductions in carbon dioxide emissions from cement co-processing through replacing production of cement raw materials with the recycled blades, plus the use of biogas from organic remnants in place of coal as a fuel.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Quote:
Warren Buffet was one of the first to invest in wind farms what does he say about them?


Waste recycling will be  a huge part of the green economy, research funded not by Buffet but by the public sector. 
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« Last Edit: May 30th, 2022 at 3:00pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #86 - May 31st, 2022 at 6:50pm
 
aquascoot wrote on May 23rd, 2022 at 12:28pm:
freediver wrote on May 23rd, 2022 at 7:34am:
Dnarever wrote on May 22nd, 2022 at 6:46pm:
freediver wrote on May 22nd, 2022 at 3:28pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on May 22nd, 2022 at 2:21pm:
I just hope Labor does no deals with the Greens.

The Greens gave up on the environment long ago. Neoliberalism is where they are at.

The Greens stopped the two efforts Labor made to price carbon. They will always be a fringe party because their actions belie their words.


What planet are you on Monk? The only reason we had a carbon tax is because Labor under Gillard was forced to negotiate with the greens to form minority government.


Labor were stupid - we could have had the same fixed price on carbon without it being a tax.


It would still be a tax. Calling it something else would just make them look silly.

Quote:
The share of fossil fuels in the total global energy consumption mix remained steady. Coal, oil and gas accounted for 80.3% of the mix in 2009 and 80.2% of the mix in 2019.


Where did you get that from scoot?




https://www.edie.net/report-global-fossil-fuel-use-not-yet-in-decline-despite-re...


This paints a very different picture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_supply_and_consumption#/media/File:World_energy_mix.svg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_supply_and_consumption
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #87 - May 31st, 2022 at 6:57pm
 
Dnarever wrote on May 23rd, 2022 at 1:42pm:
The fixed price on carbon had only one aspect making it a tax.


Sure. The fact that it was a tax made it a tax.

Quote:
It was not a tax common to any known tax it was only technically a tax because the government collected it (not because of the operation of it).


Yea, that's what a tax is. Not sure what all the gibberish in the first half of the sentence is getting at.

Quote:
Labelling it as a tax was the real error even though it is technically correct it never really had anything meaningful in common with taxes.


What it had in common with taxes is that it is a tax.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2022 at 3:34pm:
But the electorate rejects carbon pricing/taxes because they lift prices for energy...costing 5 Oz PM's their jobs in a decade.   


You don't speak for the Australian people any more than you speak for the Chinese people when you insist they were happy to see 50 million fellow Chinese starved to death by the CCP. Carbon taxes are the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions.
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« Last Edit: May 31st, 2022 at 7:03pm by freediver »  

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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #88 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 7:43am
 
The United Teal Housewives Party




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thegreatdivide
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Re: Teal Independents
Reply #89 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 1:40pm
 
freediver wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 6:57pm:
But the electorate rejects carbon pricing/taxes because they lift prices for energy...costing 5 Oz PM's their jobs in a decade. 
:TGD. 

You don't speak for the Australian people any more than ...etc etc)



What part of the above quote in red would you say is NOT a reflection of the Oz electorate's views?
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