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transaction tax (Read 3893 times)
freediver
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transaction tax
Apr 28th, 2022 at 9:18pm
 
A transaction tax is a terrible idea because it is easily avoided. People's efforts to avoid the tax would skew the entire economy in unproductive ways. On top of that, industries with low margins or long supply chains would be curtailed or destroyed, as they would bear the brunt of the tax. This would further skew the economy in unproductive ways. On top of that, the tax would be extremely regressive, placing a far higher burden on the poor compared to the current tax regime.

Yet some people support a transaction tax with a religious fervour that defies rational explanation. John for example appears to think that his support for a transaction tax requires no thought or explanation on his part until the flaws in it can be proven to him, which is a tough ask given his refusal to think about it. How do economically illiterate people get so attached to really bad ideas?

freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2022 at 8:24pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 28th, 2022 at 5:36pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 27th, 2022 at 8:47pm:
Can you not think of any way people would change how they do things to avoid the tax?



that is your argument, not mine. It's up to you to show us how. So far both your examples have failed miserably

I know, maybe you can convince you know what you are talking about by saying I don't understand economics again ... so far that seems to be the main basis of your argument.


I have shown you how. I was just wondering if you are capable of thinking for yourself.

Can you think of any way people would change how they do things to avoid your transaction tax?



John Smith wrote on Apr 28th, 2022 at 9:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2022 at 8:24pm:
I have shown you how



you haven't even come close to it. I shot down your suggestions without even trying. You'll have to do better than just repeating yourself if you want to convince anyone otherwise.


freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 8:54pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 7:35pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 6:05am:
Good way to boost the cash economy Aussie


it doesn't matter if they pay cash or use electronic. Take $100 out of your account to pay your plumber, thats a TRANSACTION ... you pay a tax. Pay him electronically ... a TRANSACTION. The plumber put the cash in his account. thats ANOTHER TRANSACTION. Or he doesn't put it in his account but rather spends it at Coles. There's ANOTHER TRANSACTION


is it sinking in yet FD?


Sure, it is sinking in how slow you are. What if the plumber uses the cash to pay his hairdresser instead of putting it into his bank account and then withdrawing it again when he wants to buy something?

What if he never even opens a bank account?


freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 8:54pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2022 at 2:19pm:
Quote:
taxes are taxes, no matter how much lipstick you dress them up with


Sure. But some work, and some are incredibly stupid ideas, no matter how much lipstick you dress them up with. Guess which one yours is?

I can only provide you with the information John. I cannot force you to think for yourself.

Quote:
crap .... they cannot avoid the transaction. If anything it adds a transaction


If a group of farmers enter into a coop with the pickers, a local packer, supermarket, transport service and whoever else is involved in the supply chain, where they simply split the income from the sale of their goods, it reduces all those transactions to one.

How many times do you need me to explain it to you before you get it John?



Every dollar from the split is taxed under that regime, so no profit is made from creating a cartel ....


Have another try Grapps.


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« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2022 at 9:33pm by freediver »  

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freediver
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #1 - Apr 28th, 2022 at 9:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2022 at 5:51pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 24th, 2022 at 12:34pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2022 at 12:23pm:
By reducing the number of transactions, as I just explained.



So if you owed bobby, Aussie and I $100 each, you are arguing that by reducing the number of transactions from 3 to 1 you avoid the tax?  WRONG All you would do is limit the number of times you pay the tax, not the total tax paid.

A tax of 1% would incur a $1 per transaction fee for the three transactions if you paid each of us individually, or $3 in tax .......... or a $3 fee for the one transaction if you paid us as a group, The total amount paid in tax would be the same.



You really have no idea John.

When you buy something at the supermarket, it has passed through many different hands to get there. Each of them owned it, or it's components, along the way. The number of transactions required depends on the extent of vertical integration. Your proposal would skew the entire economy towards vertical integration. Not because it is better, but because it would reduce tax bills.

For some products, there are a huge number of transactions involved. They would probably disappear, or get imported in a retail-ready state. Crucially, your idea would destroy any "high tech" industries in Australia.

One of the key criteria economists use to assess taxation is the extent to which is skews the market. Your proposal is about as bad as it gets on that score. You could probably ask a bunch of primary school students to reform our tax system and they would do a better job.


John Smith wrote on Apr 23rd, 2022 at 7:47pm:
lee wrote on Apr 23rd, 2022 at 5:52pm:
Ironically the more complex the tax act the greater the opportunities to rort.



scrap it and start again. You only need one line


'x% on all transaction in country.'

problem solved.


John can you see any flaws in your system? It's OK if you did not think of them yourself, I am merely asking if you can see them yet.
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« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2022 at 9:32pm by freediver »  

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Re: transaction tax
Reply #2 - Apr 28th, 2022 at 10:00pm
 
15% on money shipped offshore other than for actual procurement of goods sounds good..... maybe 20% sounds better - catch the Mehajers who ship money off to Lebanon while they ostensibly go bust, and the tax haven pirates who pay nothing.......

At least you'd get something out of the bastards....

Free Diver Enterprises, purchasing diving equipment etc, is not similarly taxed..... likewise Aquascoot Unicorn procurements is not taxed ..... send it offshore to buy this block of flat no mine is belong my uncle/cousin etc, and you pay.... get your share dividends etc paid Offshore and you pay .......  No Farken Problem!
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John Smith
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #3 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 5:33pm
 
I'm not sure why you started another thread. I thought it'd be embarrassing enough for you not being able to explain how you avoid it in one thread ....


now you want to fail to explain how you avoid it in another one? knock yourself out. Cheesy
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #4 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 5:38pm
 
ohh, and for anyone interested in FD's first attempts at explaining how they avoid the tax ... these were his first two suggestions


freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2022 at 1:52pm:
Coops. There is not much need for them now, so there are not many of them. But your idiotic proposal would see everyone joining them to avoid tax.

Home brewing is an example of people going to zero transactions to avoid the alcohol tax. There are even clever services that allow you to do home brewing without doing the actual work. These only make sense as a tax avoidance scheme.



Grin Grin Grin Grin

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Gnads
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #5 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 5:46pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2022 at 9:18pm:
A transaction tax is a terrible idea because it is easily avoided. People's efforts to avoid the tax would skew the entire economy in unproductive ways. On top of that, industries with low margins or long supply chains would be curtailed or destroyed, as they would bear the brunt of the tax. This would further skew the economy in unproductive ways. On top of that, the tax would be extremely regressive, placing a far higher burden on the poor compared to the current tax regime.

Yet some people support a transaction tax with a religious fervour that defies rational explanation. John for example appears to think that his support for a transaction tax requires no thought or explanation on his part until the flaws in it can be proven to him, which is a tough ask given his refusal to think about it. How do economically illiterate people get so attached to really bad ideas?

freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2022 at 8:24pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 28th, 2022 at 5:36pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 27th, 2022 at 8:47pm:
Can you not think of any way people would change how they do things to avoid the tax?



that is your argument, not mine. It's up to you to show us how. So far both your examples have failed miserably

I know, maybe you can convince you know what you are talking about by saying I don't understand economics again ... so far that seems to be the main basis of your argument.


I have shown you how. I was just wondering if you are capable of thinking for yourself.

Can you think of any way people would change how they do things to avoid your transaction tax?



John Smith wrote on Apr 28th, 2022 at 9:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2022 at 8:24pm:
I have shown you how



you haven't even come close to it. I shot down your suggestions without even trying. You'll have to do better than just repeating yourself if you want to convince anyone otherwise.


freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 8:54pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 7:35pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 6:05am:
Good way to boost the cash economy Aussie


it doesn't matter if they pay cash or use electronic. Take $100 out of your account to pay your plumber, thats a TRANSACTION ... you pay a tax. Pay him electronically ... a TRANSACTION. The plumber put the cash in his account. thats ANOTHER TRANSACTION. Or he doesn't put it in his account but rather spends it at Coles. There's ANOTHER TRANSACTION


is it sinking in yet FD?


Sure, it is sinking in how slow you are. What if the plumber uses the cash to pay his hairdresser instead of putting it into his bank account and then withdrawing it again when he wants to buy something?

What if he never even opens a bank account?


freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 8:54pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 26th, 2022 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2022 at 2:19pm:
Quote:
taxes are taxes, no matter how much lipstick you dress them up with


Sure. But some work, and some are incredibly stupid ideas, no matter how much lipstick you dress them up with. Guess which one yours is?

I can only provide you with the information John. I cannot force you to think for yourself.

Quote:
crap .... they cannot avoid the transaction. If anything it adds a transaction


If a group of farmers enter into a coop with the pickers, a local packer, supermarket, transport service and whoever else is involved in the supply chain, where they simply split the income from the sale of their goods, it reduces all those transactions to one.

How many times do you need me to explain it to you before you get it John?



Every dollar from the split is taxed under that regime, so no profit is made from creating a cartel ....


Have another try Grapps.





It's only a terrible idea for those who have too much money & are averse to paying tax.

If all PAYE tax was abolished on PAYE wages/salary tax payers & they paid a small tax on every transaction or on monies withdrawn from their accounts ..... there would be more money flowing throughout the community benefitting those with a bigger take home pay & the businesses they spend their money with.

Here's a basic economic theory for you Fleadriver

Money is made round to go round ......

not flat to stack.
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #6 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 5:48pm
 
Hi FD,
why even bother arguing economics with a painter?

Smith can tell you what paint to use but that's about all.
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #7 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 5:57pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Apr 29th, 2022 at 5:48pm:
Hi FD,
why even bother arguing economics with a painter?

Smith can tell you what paint to use but that's about all.


Why discuss it or take any notice of your input?

You're a multi- subject all round idiot.  Roll Eyes
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John Smith
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #8 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 6:16pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Apr 29th, 2022 at 5:48pm:
Hi FD,
why even bother arguing economics with a painter?

Smith can tell you what paint to use but that's about all.



this painter has run various businesses successfully for over 20 yrs .... what have you done that makes you any sort of expert on economics? Or Fd for that matter?
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #9 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 8:37pm
 
So, freed - your cartel is going 'black money'?  We'll recoup that the moment they start to spend it..... told yez - 'black money' is only one step removed from the tax cycle... even drug dealers pay taxes eventually... but someone needs to be asking how they got all those assets without ever holding a job...  many good days at the races?
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John Smith
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #10 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 9:59pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 29th, 2022 at 8:37pm:
So, freed - your cartel is going 'black money'? 



he's not even suggesting that.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #11 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 10:11pm
 
John Smith wrote on Apr 29th, 2022 at 6:16pm:
Bobby. wrote on Apr 29th, 2022 at 5:48pm:
Hi FD,
why even bother arguing economics with a painter?

Smith can tell you what paint to use but that's about all.



this painter has run various businesses successfully for over 20 yrs .... what have you done that makes you any sort of expert on economics? Or Fd for that matter?




Organising your mates to paint a few kitchens and some dunny doors
does not qualify you to guide us on economics.
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #12 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 10:14pm
 
Bobby you should cash your assets and send the proceeds to ScoMo.

ScoMo might appoint Bobby Disinformation Minister.
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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #13 - Apr 29th, 2022 at 10:17pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on Apr 29th, 2022 at 10:14pm:
Bobby you should cash your assets and send the proceeds to ScoMo.

ScoMo might appoint Bobby Disinformation Minister.



Who will you vote for?



...
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freediver
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Re: transaction tax
Reply #14 - Apr 30th, 2022 at 8:38am
 
John Smith wrote on Apr 29th, 2022 at 5:33pm:
I'm not sure why you started another thread. I thought it'd be embarrassing enough for you not being able to explain how you avoid it in one thread ....


now you want to fail to explain how you avoid it in another one? knock yourself out. Cheesy


I shouldn't need to explain. It is bleeding obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Can you see how your tax would be avoided?
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