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Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? (Read 28744 times)
Frank
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1155 - Aug 9th, 2022 at 11:08am
 
Donald Trump Is Magnificently Right About Ukraine


He’s absolutely, magnificently right, and he’s right in direct proportion to the hysteria his Nashville remarks brought forth from the Global Liberals. Hillary Clinton told the London Financial Times the same day that Trump’s possible re-election was Vladimir Putin’s only possible path to victory. Clinton bears the lion’s share of the blame for the horrific bloodshed now underway in Ukraine: As Secretary of State, Clinton and her chief Europe aide Victoria Nuland helped stage-manage the Maidan Coup in Ukraine that set the present war in motion.

It is revolting, but not surprising, to see the leaders of the Republican Establishment try to out-shout the Democrats over Ukraine. The consensus echo chamber generates a stream of chatter so deafening that it takes a big voice to boom over it, and Donald Trump is the only American politician with a voice that big. Thank God we have him.
He was wrong about many things but right about one overriding big thing: The United States has no business starting wars to make the world safe for democracy.


That’s why the Deep State went after Trump with a vengeance, claiming that he was in cahoots with Putin to influence the outcome of the 2016 election. Andrew McCarthy, Lee Smith, and others have published book-length exposés of this egregious fraud.

There are a dozen small reasons to oppose Trump and one big reason to support him: The existence of civilization just might be at stake as a result of the fanaticism and incompetence of the U.S. foreign policy establishment. I would favor Ron DeSantis as the 2024 Republican candidate, but if the estimable Florida governor wants a shot at the top slot, he has to take a stand on the Ukraine disaster.

Russia has been the White Whale of the Global Liberal/Neoconservative cabal since the Fall of Communism. We expected Russia to turn into a liberal democracy after 1990. But the “free market” policies we pushed onto Russia (I was part of the first wave of neo-con economists to visit Russia in the early 1990s) allowed oligarchs to loot the corpse of the Soviet economy and plunge Russia into chaos and bankruptcy. Putin emerged as the capo di capi, the boss of bosses who rationalized and limited the looting and allowed Russia to get back on its feet. He’s the Lucky Luciano of Russia. There’s nothing to like about him.

But Russia remains a state with interests, and Russia will no more tolerate the expansion of NATO up to its Ukrainian border than we would tolerate Russian missiles in Mexico.

Trump would not have pushed Putin into a corner. He’s a deal-maker, and he would have found a formula to avoid war. Russia, after all, proposed the Minsk II framework in which Ukraine would remain neutral, and the Russian-speaking areas of Eastern Ukraine would have autonomous rule within a sovereign Ukraine. Washington and London encouraged Ukraine to junk the Minsk framework and helped it to re-arm.
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2022/06/19/auto-draft-73-n1606391
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athos
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1156 - Aug 9th, 2022 at 6:57pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:04am:
Chechens are changing sides and fighting for Ukraine now. Betrayed by Putin and still also feel aggrieved by russia’s invasion of Chechnya.


What a Moronic comment.

...
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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1157 - Aug 10th, 2022 at 12:25pm
 
Putin: "I am appointing you C-in-C of operation against the Ukraine Nazis."

General: "Thank you, Mr President."

Putin: "The modern Russian military is feared throughout the world. It is at your disposal. Go down there and give them Hell."

General: "It is a great honour, Mr President. May I ask what will become of the man I am replacing?"

Putin: Well, first of all, there is his funeral to be considered.
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athos
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1158 - Aug 11th, 2022 at 12:26pm
 
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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
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issuevoter
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1159 - Aug 13th, 2022 at 2:46pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 9th, 2022 at 11:08am:
Donald Trump Is Magnificently Right About Ukraine


He’s absolutely, magnificently right, and he’s right in direct proportion to the hysteria his Nashville remarks brought forth from the Global Liberals. Hillary Clinton told the London Financial Times the same day that Trump’s possible re-election was Vladimir Putin’s only possible path to victory. Clinton bears the lion’s share of the blame for the horrific bloodshed now underway in Ukraine: As Secretary of State, Clinton and her chief Europe aide Victoria Nuland helped stage-manage the Maidan Coup in Ukraine that set the present war in motion.

It is revolting, but not surprising, to see the leaders of the Republican Establishment try to out-shout the Democrats over Ukraine. The consensus echo chamber generates a stream of chatter so deafening that it takes a big voice to boom over it, and Donald Trump is the only American politician with a voice that big. Thank God we have him.
He was wrong about many things but right about one overriding big thing: The United States has no business starting wars to make the world safe for democracy.


That’s why the Deep State went after Trump with a vengeance, claiming that he was in cahoots with Putin to influence the outcome of the 2016 election. Andrew McCarthy, Lee Smith, and others have published book-length exposés of this egregious fraud.

There are a dozen small reasons to oppose Trump and one big reason to support him: The existence of civilization just might be at stake as a result of the fanaticism and incompetence of the U.S. foreign policy establishment. I would favor Ron DeSantis as the 2024 Republican candidate, but if the estimable Florida governor wants a shot at the top slot, he has to take a stand on the Ukraine disaster.

Russia has been the White Whale of the Global Liberal/Neoconservative cabal since the Fall of Communism. We expected Russia to turn into a liberal democracy after 1990. But the “free market” policies we pushed onto Russia (I was part of the first wave of neo-con economists to visit Russia in the early 1990s) allowed oligarchs to loot the corpse of the Soviet economy and plunge Russia into chaos and bankruptcy. Putin emerged as the capo di capi, the boss of bosses who rationalized and limited the looting and allowed Russia to get back on its feet. He’s the Lucky Luciano of Russia. There’s nothing to like about him.

But Russia remains a state with interests, and Russia will no more tolerate the expansion of NATO up to its Ukrainian border than we would tolerate Russian missiles in Mexico.

Trump would not have pushed Putin into a corner. He’s a deal-maker, and he would have found a formula to avoid war. Russia, after all, proposed the Minsk II framework in which Ukraine would remain neutral, and the Russian-speaking areas of Eastern Ukraine would have autonomous rule within a sovereign Ukraine. Washington and London encouraged Ukraine to junk the Minsk framework and helped it to re-arm.
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2022/06/19/auto-draft-73-n1606391


Trump may have been right about some policies, but you cannot say he would have talked Putin out of the invasion. Plenty of influential people tried. Putin had his mind made up once his puppet was deposed. And what ever Trump says now, he does without any responsibility at all. Furthermore, you completely overlook Trump's tactical incompetence in thinking his wall would be anything other than a publicity stunt.

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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1160 - Aug 13th, 2022 at 3:46pm
 
athos wrote on Aug 9th, 2022 at 6:57pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:04am:
Chechens are changing sides and fighting for Ukraine now. Betrayed by Putin and still also feel aggrieved by russia’s invasion of Chechnya.


What a Moronic comment.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/znwloz3RFj6S0XiQuc/200.gif


Reality.
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Frank
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1161 - Sep 27th, 2022 at 4:53pm
 
Not One Inch: America, Russia and the Making of Post-Cold War Stalemate
M.E. Sarotte

Yale University Press, pp. 568, £25


When Yeltsin destroyed the Soviet Union by taking Russia out of it, he did not reckon on losing Ukraine. Yet, in a referendum in 1991, the Ukrainians voted by a large majority to go their own way.

The American ambassador in Moscow, Robert Strauss, a savvy newcomer to international politics, saw the implications at once and reported:

"The most revolutionary event of 1991 for Russia may not be the collapse of communism but the loss of something Russians of all political stripes think of as part of their own body politic and near to the heart at that: Ukraine."

The Baltics eventually became members of both the European Union and Nato. But to this day neither organisation has dared to welcome Ukraine.

At nearly every page of this outstanding book one comes back to the same question. Was Nato expansion worth the risk of enduring Russian resentment and hostility? The answer is: probably.
The Kennan/Kissinger view assumes that an unprovoked Russia would have been more benign, and this seems unlikely. Russia has been a predatory autocracy for three centuries. It has always had a strong sense of entitlement in eastern Europe. It grabbed Poland and the Baltic states in the 18th century. It brutally suppressed successive risings in 19th-century Poland. It posed as the protector of the Slav regions of south-eastern Europe throughout the 19th and 20th centuries. It was constantly beating at the gates of Ottoman Turkey. It conquered all of eastern and central Europe in 1944-5 and imposed satellite communist regimes on them for the next 50 years.

When, in a now notorious essay written at the end of last year, Putin invoked the ghost of the expansionary 18th-century Tsarina Catherine the Great, he was asserting Russia’s inherited rights over eastern Europe. This fantasy no doubt derived its intensity from the humiliations of the 1990s, but it had much older and more fundamental origins. It would not have gone away, however Russia had been handled after 1989. ‘Great empires do not go gracefully into oblivion,’ observed the ever shrewd Strauss from the Moscow embassy.

More cautious statesmen than George Bush and Bill Clinton might have rejected the pleas of the central European states for Nato membership. But it would have been a grotesque essay in great power politics to condemn a third of Europe to indefinite Russian domination. It is what the wartime allies did at Tehran in 1943 and Yalta in 1945. But there was no alternative then, whereas the West had a choice after 1989.

The consequences of leaving former Russian satellites at the mercy of their old master became painfully clear in the next three decades. Those which had no Nato guarantee foundered. Chechnya was reconquered. Georgia was dismembered. Belarus was bribed, and its democracy ‘managed’ out of existence. The Crimea was annexed. Ukraine is now engaged in a desperate struggle for survival in the face of Russian brute force. ‘To hell with that,’ Bush replied when the risks of extending Nato’s reach were pointed out to him. It may have been the wisest judgment.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/09/the-ultimate-gamble/
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Frank
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1162 - Sep 28th, 2022 at 3:57am
 
Russia is the first country where people flee not because someone invaded their country but because they invaded another country.
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1163 - Sep 28th, 2022 at 6:33am
 
Berlin had the first city-wall to defend against its people leaving.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1164 - Sep 28th, 2022 at 6:38am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 3:57am:
Russia is the first country where people flee not because someone invaded their country but because they invaded another country.


Not so! Plenty young male yanks headed for Canada to avoid the draft during the Vietnam war.
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chimera
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1165 - Sep 28th, 2022 at 6:43am
 
Vietnam was a dud but the west didn't invade Saigon. Although North Korea said it defeated the US invasion of south K. Most sensible Russians and NK believe everything the dictatorship TV tells them.
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1166 - Sep 28th, 2022 at 8:41am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 3:57am:
Russia is the first country where people flee not because someone invaded their country but because they invaded another country.


Should we invite them over here, dear boy?

I'm curious. What say you?
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chimera
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1167 - Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:31am
 
That's tints in the tent and reds under the bed.
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1168 - Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:14am
 
chimera wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 6:43am:
Vietnam was a dud but the west didn't invade Saigon. Although North Korea said it defeated the US invasion of south K. Most sensible Russians and NK believe everything the dictatorship TV tells them.


Incredible how revisionist the Right Wing Nut Jobs are.  Recently the Vietnam War was won by the US ... apparently.  Or at the very least, not lost.  Americans and White Supremisists have a hard time acknowledging that Asians kicked their faarkkking arses out of the country.

Now I get why they are trying to deny the history in plain sight.  White Supremacy movement.

...

...

...
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So many farkwits, so little time.
 
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chimera
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1169 - Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:28am
 
'This is an example of the loony racist right, or 'the Right' in general'.-random.

Probaly the last post was about me. Correct?
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