Australian Politics Forum - Separation of powers

The_Barnacle

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Separation of powers
Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:05pm

Quote:

The principle of the separation of powers is that, in order to prevent oppressive government, the three powers of government should be held by separate bodies—the Legislature, Executive and Judiciary—which can act as checks and balances on each other.

Put aside your personal opinion of Novak Djokovic (unless you have met him in person your opinion of him is based solely on media reports anyway).
What we have is a decision by the Federal Court (The Judiciary) which has been overridden by a government minister (the executive). This is a clear breach of the separation of powers.

It also sets a dangerous precedent.
The reason given for the Ministers decision was that it was in “on health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so”.
So in an election year the minister overrides the Federal Court because there will be a few votes in it.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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lee

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #1 - Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:10pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Put aside your personal opinion of Novak Djokovic (unless you have met him in person your opinion of him is based solely on media reports anyway).

Yeah. You can't trust the ABC. Grin

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-12/novak-djokovic-statement-instagram-immigr...

"In Wednesday's statement, he said his agent had made an "administrative mistake" with the declaration.

"This was a human error and certainly not deliberate," Djokovic said."

You can't even believe direct quotes attributed to him. Roll Eyes

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #2 - Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:11pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Quote:

The principle of the separation of powers is that, in order to prevent oppressive government, the three powers of government should be held by separate bodies—the Legislature, Executive and Judiciary—which can act as checks and balances on each other.

Put aside your personal opinion of Novak Djokovic (unless you have met him in person your opinion of him is based solely on media reports anyway).
What we have is a decision by the Federal Court (The Judiciary) which has been overridden by a government minister (the executive). This is a clear breach of the separation of powers.

It also sets a dangerous precedent.
The reason given for the Ministers decision was that it was in “on health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so”.
So in an election year the minister overrides the Federal Court because there will be a few votes in it.

What are you talking about?

Which Govt Minister?

Have you a link to some article ?

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #3 - Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:14pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:11pm:

What are you talking about?

Which Govt Minister?

Have you a link to some article ?

Quote:

Another extraordinary day in the Novak Djokovic saga began at 5.52pm local time when Australia’s minister for immigration, Alex Hawke, exerted his personal powers to cancel the men’s world No 1’s visa for the second time. In a statement Hawke said he had done so “on health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so”.

Hawke’s decision also superseded a federal court’s decision on Monday that had allowed Djokovic to stay in Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/14/novak-djokovic-qa-a-wild-day-what-...

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Belgarion

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #4 - Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:39pm

lee wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:10pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Put aside your personal opinion of Novak Djokovic (unless you have met him in person your opinion of him is based solely on media reports anyway).

Yeah. You can't trust the ABC. Grin

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-12/novak-djokovic-statement-instagram-immigr...

"In Wednesday's statement, he said his agent had made an "administrative mistake" with the declaration.

"This was a human error and certainly not deliberate," Djokovic said."

You can't even believe direct quotes attributed to him. Roll Eyes

The declaration is his responsibility, not his agents. Roll Eyes

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16400 Gender:	Re: Separation of powers Reply #5 - Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:41pm The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:05pm: The Legislature, Executive and Judiciary—which can act as checks and balances on each other. So the Minister, as he was entitled, provided a check on the Federal Court. Djokovic has appealed to a higher court, as is his right.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 80194 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Separation of powers Reply #6 - Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:47pm The minister does have discretion to go either way..... as lee said - any such decision can be challenged. If the lower court had found against The Joke That Is, and the minister decided the other way - that he could stay - would there be a problem? Good advertising for the tennis, no? I can't wait until it finishes.
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freediver

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #7 - Jan 15^th, 2022 at 1:02pm

Quote:

What we have is a decision by the Federal Court (The Judiciary) which has been overridden by a government minister (the executive). This is a clear breach of the separation of powers.

The separation of powers is a principle, not a law.

Quote:

It also sets a dangerous precedent.

No it doesn't. This sort of thing has always happened.

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #8 - Jan 16^th, 2022 at 7:01am

lee wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:41pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

The Legislature, Executive and Judiciary—which can act as checks and balances on each other.

So the Minister, as he was entitled, provided a check on the Federal Court. Djokovic has appealed to a higher court, as is his right. Roll Eyes

✅

Exactly.

There's nothing untoward here.

And it's been done before.

PS It's interesting but.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #9 - Jan 16^th, 2022 at 7:15am

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:14pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:11pm:

What are you talking about?

Which Govt Minister?

Have you a link to some article ?

Quote:

Another extraordinary day in the Novak Djokovic saga began at 5.52pm local time when Australia’s minister for immigration, Alex Hawke, exerted his personal powers to cancel the men’s world No 1’s visa for the second time. In a statement Hawke said he had done so “on health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so”.

Hawke’s decision also superseded a federal court’s decision on Monday that had allowed Djokovic to stay in Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/14/novak-djokovic-qa-a-wild-day-what-...

Found this which explains things easier.

Exceptions to the principle

Australia does not have a complete separation of powers because some of the roles of the Parliament, the Executive and the Judiciary overlap.

For example :

1. The Prime Minister and ministers are part of the Executive and the Parliament.

2. High Court judges, the Prime Minister and ministers are officially appointed by the Governor-General, who is part of the Parliament and the Executive.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Valkie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16088 Central Coast Gender:	Re: Separation of powers Reply #10 - Jan 21^st, 2022 at 7:05am but some are more important than others.
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Gnads

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #11 - Jan 21^st, 2022 at 7:25am

lee wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:10pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

Put aside your personal opinion of Novak Djokovic (unless you have met him in person your opinion of him is based solely on media reports anyway).

Yeah. You can't trust the ABC. Grin

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-12/novak-djokovic-statement-instagram-immigr...

"In Wednesday's statement, he said his agent had made an "administrative mistake" with the declaration.

"This was a human error and certainly not deliberate," Djokovic said."

You can't even believe direct quotes attributed to him. Roll Eyes

What is it that you don't understand about a "declaration" ... that you sign in regards to it's veracity & truth?

A tax agent or accountant may compile your tax return but you sign it as a declaration that all the information & claims therein are legitimate.

Any errors made by the tax agent/accountant are your sole responsibility....... you cop the penalty if it is audited as having claims you are not entitled to.

So the human error by a 3rd party is an irrelevance.

It was on Djokovic & rightly so - he is gone.

Best of luck the wanker trying to sue. Grin

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #12 - Jan 21^st, 2022 at 9:42am

The golden rule: you sign it, you own it.

and then there's:

The [federal] court also said there was evidence that Djokovic had recently disregarded reasonable public health measures overseas by attending activities unmasked while COVID positive to his knowledge.

“It was open to infer that this, if emulated, may encourage an attitude of breach of public health regulations.”

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John Smith

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Re: Separation of powers
Reply #13 - Jan 21^st, 2022 at 9:46am

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 15^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

What we have is a decision by the Federal Court (The Judiciary) which has been overridden by a government minister (the executive).

no. The federal court ruled on procedure only. The govt. then had the power to act further as was outlined by the federal court at the time it made it's decision. As long as they stuck to legal procedure they complied with the court ruling.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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The Heartless Felon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2869 Gender:	Re: Separation of powers Reply #14 - Jan 21^st, 2022 at 4:44pm Valkie wrote on Jan 21^st, 2022 at 7:05am: but some are more important than others. What does this have to do with the separation of powers?
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