Australian Politics Forum - Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain

thegreatdivide

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Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain
Reply #15 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 12:43am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14^th, 2022 at 12:05am:

Like ever so many of your stamp, you are trapped in the illusion that others who don't 100% agree with you are an 'opponent'. Life doesn't work that way.... and if you insist on making it 'either you're with us or against us' - you will lose.

70 million refugees and 2 billion in absolute poverty and living in war zones are already losing, in our broken world.

Quote:

Ah - so I am now not a 'conservative' but an 'anarchist' AND an 'ideologist'.... thanks for telling me that... you are so rigid in your thinking... I am a humanitarian.... a fair broker... a civilised human being who does not exterminate his 'enemies' ..

And the reason why our world is broken, believe it or not, is your individual sovereignty ideology. You may be a humanitarian, but you can't fix our broken world with humanitarianism alone, we need an international rules based system as well (without a nuclear arms race, ffs...).

The millions struggling tonight under war, poverty, or starvation would love your "humanitarian" assistance, but unfortunately it won't be forthcoming.

Yet they, like Tosca's lover facing execution, love life as much as you do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU5roitYI1s

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Gnads

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Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain
Reply #16 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 9:09am

Quote:

by cancelling their entire workforce’s Employment Agreement and forcing an unprecedented return to the basic Award.

This is incorrect .... this has happened several times by several different companies after the

PRECEDENT was FIRST set by the company I worked for - when Aurizon Rail applied to Fair Work to cancel it's workforces EBA in 2014 ...which was granted....

Fair Work actually set the precedent which now allows all Companies to do this as a low ball negotiating/blackmailing tactic in EBA negotiations.

The "fair" in FAIR WORK is a misnomer.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain
Reply #17 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 9:43am

Gnads wrote on Jan 14^th, 2022 at 9:09am:

Quote:

by cancelling their entire workforce’s Employment Agreement and forcing an unprecedented return to the basic Award.

This is incorrect .... this has happened several times by several different companies after the

PRECEDENT was FIRST set by the company I worked for - when Aurizon Rail applied to Fair Work to cancel it's workforces EBA in 2014 ...which was granted....

Fair Work actually set the precedent which now allows all Companies to do this as a low ball negotiating/blackmailing tactic in EBA negotiations.

The "fair" in FAIR WORK is a misnomer.

I'm still at a loss as to how this could disadvantage anyone - given that EBA are supposed to never fall below the Award and to cover all conditions etc .... I'd say a work to regulations would bring them to heel anyway.... you wanna work to regs - we're happy to oblige.

Footnote:- Put every workplace back on the same playing field and that might bring some sense to the economy in several ways, including employment and social/economic disparities created by big pays v none. Again - if the 'management' was so wonderful in designing this 'EBA' (Howard's Way) and it is such a wonderful thing - why is there now a need to ditch them?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Dnarever

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Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain
Reply #18 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 10:27am

Valkie wrote on Jan 13^th, 2022 at 9:28am:

Gee.

Pretty bad stuff.
I'm glad public servants don't do that sort of thing.
Imagine if ....say teachers.....decided to go on strike just before or just after the single most important exams for young students.
Possibly destroying their lives for a few dollars a week.

Now, that would be terrible.

But politicians and senior public servants will never strike.
Because very quickly, people would realise that the country runs better without them.

You do not seem able to not blame the employee / union for the actions of the employer.

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« Last Edit: Jan 14^th, 2022 at 6:50pm by Dnarever »

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain
Reply #19 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 10:51am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14^th, 2022 at 10:27am:

Valkie wrote on Jan 13^th, 2022 at 9:28am:

Gee.

Pretty bad stuff.
I'm glad public servants don't do that sort of thing.
Imagine if ....say teachers.....decided to go on strike just before or just after the single most important exams for young students.
Possibly destroying their lives for a few dollars a week.

Now, that would be terrible.

But politicians and senior public servants will never strike.
Because very quickly, people would realise that the country runs better without them.

You do not seen able to not blame the employee / union for the actions of the employer.

Worked with a guy like that once - got laid off by the Sydney water board MANAGEMENT when they re-structured and blamed the Union (???????).

Mad as a cut snake.... hated Unions and worked to bring down the delegates etc.... tattling lies to the management behind their backs trying to cause trouble.... the management there crashed the company eventually through incompetence and out he went.... couldn't happen to a more deserving bloke.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47441 At my desk.	Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain Reply #20 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 5:10pm How is PT sabotaging the supply chain? Sounds to me like they are trying to keep the place running. Is this the unions pre-emptively blaming others for when everyone loses their job?
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Dnarever

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Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain
Reply #21 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 6:52pm

freediver wrote on Jan 14^th, 2022 at 5:10pm:

How is PT sabotaging the supply chain? Sounds to me like they are trying to keep the place running.

Is this the unions pre-emptively blaming others for when everyone loses their job?

This action would force the employees to take legal action to protect their position, the employer knows this would be the result.

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Dnarever

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Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain
Reply #22 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 6:54pm

Gnads wrote on Jan 14^th, 2022 at 9:09am:

Quote:

by cancelling their entire workforce’s Employment Agreement and forcing an unprecedented return to the basic Award.

This is incorrect .... this has happened several times by several different companies after the

PRECEDENT was FIRST set by the company I worked for - when Aurizon Rail applied to Fair Work to cancel it's workforces EBA in 2014 ...which was granted....

Fair Work actually set the precedent which now allows all Companies to do this as a low ball negotiating/blackmailing tactic in EBA negotiations.

The "fair" in FAIR WORK is a misnomer.

Seen an example where the employees selected to go to the modern award in preference to what they were offered.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47441 At my desk.	Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain Reply #23 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 6:54pm Quote: This action would force the employees to take legal action It's not my fault! He MADE me do it!
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Dnarever

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Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain
Reply #24 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 7:02pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14^th, 2022 at 9:43am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 14^th, 2022 at 9:09am:

Quote:

by cancelling their entire workforce’s Employment Agreement and forcing an unprecedented return to the basic Award.

This is incorrect .... this has happened several times by several different companies after the

PRECEDENT was FIRST set by the company I worked for - when Aurizon Rail applied to Fair Work to cancel it's workforces EBA in 2014 ...which was granted....

Fair Work actually set the precedent which now allows all Companies to do this as a low ball negotiating/blackmailing tactic in EBA negotiations.

The "fair" in FAIR WORK is a misnomer.

I'm still at a loss as to how this could disadvantage anyone - given that EBA are supposed to never fall below the Award and to cover all conditions etc .... I'd say a work to regulations would bring them to heel anyway.... you wanna work to regs - we're happy to oblige.

Footnote:- Put every workplace back on the same playing field and that might bring some sense to the economy in several ways, including employment and social/economic disparities created by big pays v none. Again - if the 'management' was so wonderful in designing this 'EBA' (Howard's Way) and it is such a wonderful thing - why is there now a need to ditch them?

Quote:

given that EBA are supposed to never fall below the Award and to cover all conditions etc

The Modern award is the lowest allowed rates and conditions for the industry. It is the safety net. It is like the lowest minimum wage for the industry and includes conditions.

In negotiations all terms are vulnerable down to this position, no above award condition or payment is safe.

In negotiation every cycle is about what you can give away in order to keep some other things. Their is no avenue to look at improvements.

The negotiation will be that if you are $x above the award rate what working conditions will you give away to keep that money ?

Yes there are big problems with the flaws in the system. The fair work modern award system for employees is a race to the bottom.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain
Reply #25 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 7:46pm

"The Modern award is the lowest allowed rates and conditions for the industry. It is the safety net. It is like the lowest minimum wage for the industry and includes conditions."

One hell of a long way from what Howard told us it would be... now the Award is a far lower remunerated 'safety net' - a kind of dole payment for people to come to work... what an insult...

If all Award conditions are paid in full, there should be buggar-all difference - except that the 'flexibility' didn't work any more.... no arguments about penalty rates and allowances for heat etc.... Tongue

What have they changed about the Award structure to allow this?

If the ACTU wasn't a pack of sheilas these days and had some balls, they would demand and fight for a return to Awards as they were at that time... full penalty rates, full conditions allowances - all indexed, of course - you want people to work crazy shifts, you pay for it.

No boss ever gave anything for nothing..... Patricks should take their hand off it.... they're running up the costs of their business and whining about it.. typical stupid management.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47441 At my desk.	Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain Reply #26 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 7:49pm Do the unions ever take responsibility for destroying their own jobs? Or is it always someone else's fault?
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 80282 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Patrick Terminals Set To Sabotage Supply Chain Reply #27 - Jan 14^th, 2022 at 7:51pm silly comment phrased as questions passed by
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