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Republic (Read 7695 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Republic
Reply #285 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 12:17pm
 
How can you determine where to go if you don't acknowledge where you have been?

Your aversion to discussions about history are typical of someone who neither knows any or understand it's effects, Lisa.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Republic
Reply #286 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 12:24pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 11:03am:
freediver wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 10:57am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 10:45am:
freediver wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 10:40am:
Quote:
The emergence of the two roles - head of state and head of government - has been a baptism of fire and blood


How many civil wars did it take?

That's my point.

A civil war, a deposing and exile of a sovereign, and five German Hanover kings who had either no interest in governing Britain, more interest in fighting among themselves, going mad, eating and drinking themselves to death or compulsive gambling.



So the baptism of fire and blood for British democracy was a German king with a really bad case of the runs?

That and the English civil war, the deposing of James II and parliament's inviting of William of Orange to invade England and claim the crown.


Oops, I missed the execution of Charles I, despite his challenge to parliament of their authority to try a sovereign who, by divine right, he believed, only answered to god. A famous legal challenge still used today by desperate deposed despots.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Republic
Reply #287 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 1:04pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
How can you determine where to go if you don't acknowledge where you have been?

Your aversion to discussions about history are typical of someone who neither knows any or understand it's effects, Lisa.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Not at all. I studied modern history at Uni and thoroughly enjoyed it.

What I'm merely attempting to communicate is this: the issue of Australia becoming a Republic is forward directed. We can't keep looking back when we've been constitutionally completely independent from England since 1986.

Hence why I stated this very important HISTORICAL fact!

Australia's FULL independence from the UK has already been achieved. By that I mean it was Constitutionally achieved. You do realise this. Yes?
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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freediver
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Re: Republic
Reply #288 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 1:06pm
 
You need to be thinking in centuries when changing the constitution. That's how long you hope it will last for.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Republic
Reply #289 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 1:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 1:06pm:
You need to be thinking in centuries when changing the constitution. That's how long you hope it will last for.


Well in that case we will end up thinking FOR centuries too.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Republic
Reply #290 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 2:09pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 1:04pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
How can you determine where to go if you don't acknowledge where you have been?

Your aversion to discussions about history are typical of someone who neither knows any or understand it's effects, Lisa.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Not at all. I studied modern history at Uni and thoroughly enjoyed it.

What I'm merely attempting to communicate is this: the issue of Australia becoming a Republic is forward directed. We can't keep looking back when we've been constitutionally completely independent from England since 1986.

Hence why I stated this very important HISTORICAL fact!

Australia's FULL independence from the UK has already been achieved. By that I mean it was Constitutionally achieved. You do realise this. Yes?


That is one fact, there are many, many others which can affect our movement towards or away from a republic, Lisa.  The UK is a good example, it has been there and gone back to a monarchy.   We might need the benefit of their experience.
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Republic
Reply #291 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 2:25pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 2:09pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 1:04pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
How can you determine where to go if you don't acknowledge where you have been?

Your aversion to discussions about history are typical of someone who neither knows any or understand it's effects, Lisa.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Not at all. I studied modern history at Uni and thoroughly enjoyed it.

What I'm merely attempting to communicate is this: the issue of Australia becoming a Republic is forward directed. We can't keep looking back when we've been constitutionally completely independent from England since 1986.

Hence why I stated this very important HISTORICAL fact!

Australia's FULL independence from the UK has already been achieved. By that I mean it was Constitutionally achieved. You do realise this. Yes?


That is one fact, there are many, many others which can affect our movement towards or away from a republic, Lisa.  The UK is a good example, it has been there and gone back to a monarchy.   We might need the benefit of their experience.


1. Ok who are you? And what have you done with the real Brian? The real Brian would never post without tsk tsking me.

2. Seriously though....regarding history and experience :

Julius Caesar once stated that Experience is the teacher of all knowledge.

That experience does not necessarily have to be our own. We can (and often do) learn from the experience of others.


^^^^ Which is why I looked back as far as the current French Republic model which dates back to the last century.

You're still looking back at England and even then back when Liz the 1st was around.

I'm surprised you've not yet brought up Plato's Republic. Or were you about to? 😩


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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones
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Re: Republic
Reply #292 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 2:28pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
How can you determine where to go if you don't acknowledge where you have been?

Your aversion to discussions about history are typical of someone who neither knows any or understand it's effects, Lisa.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


1. I absolutely love history. Foxtel's History Channel is basically always on here. I love waking up to it lol.

2. The word is its NOT it's.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Jovial Monk
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Re: Republic
Reply #293 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 3:28pm
 
No apostrophe in the possessive use of it so ‘its.” But there is an apostrophe when ‘It is’ is condensed to “it’s.”
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« Last Edit: Jan 17th, 2022 at 3:37pm by Jovial Monk »  

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Republic
Reply #294 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 3:48pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 2:25pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 2:09pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 1:04pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
How can you determine where to go if you don't acknowledge where you have been?

Your aversion to discussions about history are typical of someone who neither knows any or understand it's effects, Lisa.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Not at all. I studied modern history at Uni and thoroughly enjoyed it.

What I'm merely attempting to communicate is this: the issue of Australia becoming a Republic is forward directed. We can't keep looking back when we've been constitutionally completely independent from England since 1986.

Hence why I stated this very important HISTORICAL fact!

Australia's FULL independence from the UK has already been achieved. By that I mean it was Constitutionally achieved. You do realise this. Yes?


That is one fact, there are many, many others which can affect our movement towards or away from a republic, Lisa.  The UK is a good example, it has been there and gone back to a monarchy.   We might need the benefit of their experience.


1. Ok who are you? And what have you done with the real Brian? The real Brian would never post without tsk tsking me.


Oh dearie, dearie, me.  Feeling a little left out of things are we? 

Quote:
2. Seriously though....regarding history and experience :

Julius Caesar once stated that Experience is the teacher of all knowledge.

That experience does not necessarily have to be our own. We can (and often do) learn from the experience of others.


^^^^ Which is why I looked back as far as the current French Republic model which dates back to the last century.

You're still looking back at England and even then back when Liz the 1st was around.

I'm surprised you've not yet brought up Plato's Republic. Or were you about to? 😩



Nope, nor have I mentioned Liz the first.  I think Charles the first is about as far as I go.  Cromwell is a good example.  The English were a republic in all but name but turned their backs on the idea in favour the monarchy of Charlie II.  Why?  Was their something wrong with republicanism?   Was Charlie II a better monarch for having his dad's head removed?  All good questions.

Oh and a fine tch, tch, tch... just for you...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Republic
Reply #295 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 3:50pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 3:28pm:
No apostrophe in the possessive use of it so ‘its.” But there is an apostrophe when ‘It is’ is condensed to “it’s.”


Oh dearie, dearie, me, a grammar flame!  i haven't had one of those for over a decade.  Tsh, tsh, tsh...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: Republic
Reply #296 - Jan 17th, 2022 at 5:03pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 3:48pm:
Cromwell is a good example.  The English were a republic in all but name but turned their backs on the idea in favour the monarchy of Charlie II.  Why?  Was their something wrong with republicanism?   Was Charlie II a better monarch for having his dad's head removed?  All good questions.

Oh and a fine tch, tch, tch... just for you...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Up to a point, Lord Copper, up to a point.

You jumble things, Bbwian, as is your reflex and habit.


In the spring of 1657 Parliament voted to invite Cromwell to become king, since kingship was an office “interwoven with the fundamental laws” of the nation, as Cromwell himself stated, and there would be an end to constant innovation. Torn between his desire for “settlement” and his continued yearning for a godly reformation, he hesitated for many weeks and then declined the title. Cromwell did agree, however, to a new constitutional arrangement that restored many of the trappings of monarchy, including the restoration of a House of Lords. That decision provoked a republican backlash, and Cromwell’s final parliamentary session (January–February 1658) ended in bitter recrimination and in accusations of a new “Egyptian bondage.”

Ever since the campaign in Ireland, Cromwell’s health had been poor. In August 1658, after his favourite daughter, Elizabeth, died of cancer, he contracted malaria and was taken to London with the intention of living in St. James’s Palace. But he died in Whitehall at three o’clock on September 3, the anniversary of two of his greatest victories. The embalmers bungled their work, and his putrefying body was secretly interred several weeks before his state funeral and the interment of a probably empty coffin in Westminster Abbey on November 23, 1658. In 1661, after the Restoration of Charles II and on the anniversary of the regicide, a corpse that may or may not have been Cromwell’s was exhumed and hung up at Tyburn, where criminals were executed. That body was then buried beneath the gallows. But the head was stuck on a pole on top of Westminster Hall, where it is known to have remained until the end of Charles II’s reign.

...
In the spring of 1657 he was tempted by an offer of the crown by a majority in Parliament on the ground that it fitted in better with existing institutions and the English common law. In the end he refused to become king because he knew that it would offend his old republican officers. Nevertheless, in the last year and a half of his life he ruled according to a form of government known as “the Petition and Advice.” This in effect made him a constitutional monarch with a House of Lords whose members he was allowed to nominate as well as an elected House of Commons. But he found it equally difficult to govern either with or without parliaments.

Although in the late 17th century Cromwell was execrated as a brave bad man, it was admitted that he had made his country great. In the 18th century, on the other hand, he was considered a nauseating hypocrite, while the 19th century, under the influence of the writer and historian Thomas Carlyle, regarded him as a constitutional reformer who had destroyed the absolutism of Charles I. Modern critics are more discriminating. His belief in God’s providence is analyzed in psychological terms. Marxists blame him for betraying the cause of revolution by suppressing the radical movement in the army and resisting the policy of the Levelers. On the whole, he is regarded only in a very limited sense as a dictator but rather as a patriotic ruler who restored political stability after the Civil Wars and contributed to the evolution of constitutional government and religious toleration.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Oliver-Cromwell/Legacy
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Frank
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Re: Republic
Reply #297 - Jan 19th, 2022 at 5:52pm
 
Could France’s upcoming presidential election risk destabilising the country, whether or not Emmanuel Macron triumphs? So far, nearly 40 candidates have declared their intention to stand in April’s poll. But to qualify, they face another hurdle: one which several key candidates, including Marine Le Pen, Éric Zemmour and Jean-Luc Mélenchon, are struggling to overcome. Together, Le Pen (16.5 per cent), Éric Zemmour (12.5 per cent) and Jean-Luc Mélenchon (ten per cent) enjoy the support of nearly four in ten French voters. But they might be shut out of the race. If so, a real democratic chasm would open up, undermining the whole election and the legitimacy of the winner.

Every candidate in the presidentials must deal with the system of parrainages, which requires a person running for office to validate their eligibility. They must do so by obtaining 500 signatures from France’s elected representatives (mayors to senators) by 22 February. The system – which has long existed under the 5th Republic – is aimed at eliminating fantasy candidates. But that Le Pen, Zemmour and Mélenchon are all struggling to reach the required number of signatures, shows that this system has become far too restrictive.

So could these candidates really be shut out? It’s certainly no theoretical scenario. In 1981, when the system was less restrictive, it still prevented Jean-Marie Le Pen of the Front National from standing. Since 2017, these signatures have been made public. This has provoked considerable anxiety on the part of local mayors that either their voters may not approve of their assenting to a particular candidate or, worse still, that councils of a different political colour at departmental or regional level might punish local mayors by denying them subsidies. The process works against non-traditional candidates without local party bases, effectively fossilising the system. The irony is that established party candidates with meagre poll ratings have no difficulty in obtaining their signatures, like the Socialist party’s Anne Hidalgo on 2.5 per cent, and for whom it is waspishly observed that her signatures will outnumber her votes.
....
A final ingredient to this potentially explosive cocktail is the impact it could have on the legislative elections that will follow on 12 and 19 June 2022 if Macron wins by default. If many French voters resent Macron’s return to the Elysée, the ensuing parliamentary elections could deprive him of a majority to govern. If this happens, the potential for a crisis of regime against a background of mounting violence conjures up historical precedents from France’s turbulent political history that she may prefer to forget.
https://spectator.com.au/2022/01/could-marine-le-pen-be-shut-out-of-frances-elec
tion/
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Republic
Reply #298 - Jan 19th, 2022 at 5:55pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 2:28pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
How can you determine where to go if you don't acknowledge where you have been?

Your aversion to discussions about history are typical of someone who neither knows any or understand it's effects, Lisa.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


1. I absolutely love history. Foxtel's History Channel is basically always on here. I love waking up to it lol.

2. The word is its NOT it's.



Excuse me Brian....could you address this post please?
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Republic
Reply #299 - Jan 19th, 2022 at 7:24pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 19th, 2022 at 5:55pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 2:28pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
How can you determine where to go if you don't acknowledge where you have been?

Your aversion to discussions about history are typical of someone who neither knows any or understand it's effects, Lisa.   Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


1. I absolutely love history. Foxtel's History Channel is basically always on here. I love waking up to it lol.

2. The word is its NOT it's.



Excuse me Brian....could you address this post please?


Why should I address it?  I have already answered the point 2.  Point 1?  Well if you watch History Channel no wonder you have problems with understanding history.  How many aliens built the pyramids and why did the Nazis turn out to be such losers?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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