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Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident (Read 3459 times)
UnSubRocky
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #75 - Oct 28th, 2021 at 10:49pm
 
rhino wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 10:29pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 10:10pm:
rhino wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 8:29pm:
Heres  a news flash for ya, what you think the gun should be called is irrelevant. Its commonly called a prop gun, end of story.


Anything portable and used to convey a story is called a prop in the theatre industry. But firearms that fire ammunition are also weapons.
No one said they arent weapons you idiot, they are called prop guns in the threatre. You are especially slow tonite.


A prop gun need not be loaded with actual ammunition in order to convey a story in theatre.
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rhino
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #76 - Oct 28th, 2021 at 11:39pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 10:49pm:
rhino wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 10:29pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 10:10pm:
rhino wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 8:29pm:
Heres  a news flash for ya, what you think the gun should be called is irrelevant. Its commonly called a prop gun, end of story.


Anything portable and used to convey a story is called a prop in the theatre industry. But firearms that fire ammunition are also weapons.
No one said they arent weapons you idiot, they are called prop guns in the threatre. You are especially slow tonite.


A prop gun need not be loaded with actual ammunition in order to convey a story in theatre.

You think?
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rhino
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #77 - Oct 28th, 2021 at 11:40pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 10:46pm:
rhino wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 10:27pm:
You idiot. the shooting happened in America Victorian government legislation doesnt mean much over there.  Now quote the relevant American legislation since  you claimed to know all about it. See how you look stupid when you try to claim things you know nothing about? You do it to yourself every time. Heres a hint for you, better  be thought a fool and keep your mouth shut than open it and be known as one.


Earlier tonight, rhino said Quote:
Really? can you quote the relevant section of OHS regulations in relation to firearms on move sets, thanks. (You wont because you just told a lie)


I managed to quote OHS regulations in relation to firearms on movie sets. The fact that you did not specify quoting regulations from the United States (or New Mexico) was the problem from you. Not me.

Go cite regulation where the actors are allowed to fire live ammunition on a movie set. Specifically, cite how actors are allowed to fire at other members of the crew without consequence.
I dont need to specifically cite US references, the OP is in the US you twat.
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rhino
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #78 - Oct 28th, 2021 at 11:43pm
 
Im asking a serious question, are you considered mentally disabled Rocky? Because I will give you a break if thats the case, just tell me.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #79 - Oct 29th, 2021 at 12:26am
 
rhino wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 11:43pm:
Im asking a serious question, are you considered mentally disabled Rocky? Because I will give you a break if thats the case, just tell me.


I will consider that a serious question and give you a serious answer. I would probably consider that the "mentally impaired" would have been appropriate to describe my disposition about 15 or 16 years ago. Not "mentally disabled". I did try to claim disability back in 2006. But my schizophrenia was not serious enough to warrant being classed as such.

For the last 3 weeks, at least, I have gone through a major depressive/anxiety episode. I have been as nonsocial as I have ever been for a long time. And no amount of medication, counselling, or whatever else will resolve the problem until I have an insight into my own problems and find a solution to reset my mindset. I usually drag myself out of the slump and end up back on track being constructive.

In the meantime, I come across forum posts, such as yours and others, where you are just being flippant about serious issues and playing semantics about whether a weapon is not a weapon if it is a prop. Perhaps I should just limit myself to doing movie reviews and not bother with other forum topics. Nobody seems to be criticising my opinion there.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #80 - Oct 29th, 2021 at 1:26am
 
rhino wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 11:40pm:
I dont need to specifically cite US references, the OP is in the US you twat.


You do not seem to have a position on what armourers and crew dealing with firearms are allowed to do. However, I cannot find any legislation that allows someone to fire a weapon without some safety procedures in place, during shooting scenes of a movie.

Being on set, you are not exempt from safety measures. I will await the findings of the shooting before I comment more about this.
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #81 - Oct 29th, 2021 at 8:02am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 28th, 2021 at 8:11pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 27th, 2021 at 4:00pm:
That "duty of care" is unworkable, at least here.


Occupational health and safety, in relation to firearms, would mean that someone holding the firearm has a "duty of care" to make sure the weapon is used in a safe manner.

Hypothetical scenario 1: Imagine if you had a pistol in your hand and you walked around town with the firearm. Oh, the pistol is not loaded. But you like to carry the pistol around because you like guns. The police get called to attend a person waving around a pistol in public. The police show up and point their guns at you, demanding that you put the gun down. You wave the gun around, claiming that it is not loaded and that your duty of care is unworkable, at least here. The police shoot you, thinking that the taser option is not feasible. They handcuff you and you get your medical care as soon as possible. The police determine that the pistol you were holding was actually not loaded. It does not change the fact that you are breaking the law/acting reckless.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-28/police-speak-alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-h...

We have a situation here where the actor, Alec Baldwin, was given a gun that he claims to be "cold" (safe). Irrelevant that the actor was told that the gun was safe to use, in terms of Mr Baldwin was still in possession of a weapon that could fire live rounds. Mr Baldwin should have checked to see if there were rounds in the gun. And then he should have used the weapon in a safe manner.


It was an actor on a film set, not someone trying suicide by police.

I'm not saying Baldwin is blameless, I'm just pointing out that the situation is not as black and white and you're painting it and in the real world, there is someone whose sole responsibility is the manage and maintain all aspects of these weapons including their safety on set.

If that was you, the armourer, since you like hypotheticals, and you've done your job, checked the weapon, announced that it's cold and then handed the weapon to the actor and they then attempt to check the gun how can you be sure they haven't then loaded a bullet?

If they have and it's discharged, that's on you.

Or what if they don't deliberately load anything but because they're an actor and not a weapons expert, what if part of their wardrobe gets stuck in the barrel without them even realising and when they fire their blank during filming it kills someone by launching the metal stud into their head, all because the actor thought they knew better than you.

That all become your responsibility.

See in the real world, the armourer would not let the guns out of their site and if it's a bigger production with multiple weapons firing blanks there is actually a team of people, not just a single person.

Again, here in Aus, the moment an actor attempts to tamper with the gun (remove or check the ammunition etc) or looks down the barrel, everything stops and the armourer steps in, confiscating the weapons and either checking them again, or in the case of an actor aiming the weapon at a person or themselves, they're ejected from the set (depending on their billing).

None of that was happening in this case sadly.  I'm not entirely sure they care this much in the US because of their crazy gun culture, but not only was it not the armourer who gave Baldwin the gun, telling him that it was "cold" but that same gun was used for target practice earlier in the day with live rounds, a massive no-no on a film set (again, at least here).

The actor's job is to act, not to think they know better than the armourer.

You're just not being realistic.  You're acting as if your hours in video games would enable you to pick up a gun and check not only that it's loaded correctly, what type of ammo is in there, how to engage the safety etc, all without blowing your own head off.

I own multiple rifles and while it's trivially easy to get the license here in QLD (the people who failed the test when I took mine were given the answers and allowed to take the test again 15minutes later) it doesn't mean you know what you're doing.

I've been around any actors before, I wouldn't want them to hold any responsibility with a firearms check whatsoever.
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« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2021 at 8:37am by SadKangaroo »  
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #82 - Oct 30th, 2021 at 2:31pm
 

The scumbags are still trying to score cheap politic points by exploiting this poor woman's death.

Do life forms get much lower?

...
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #83 - Oct 30th, 2021 at 4:24pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 29th, 2021 at 8:02am:
It was an actor on a film set, not someone trying suicide by police.


The situation was that an actor fired a gun that had live ammunition in it. If he had not been trained in using a firearm, he should not have been using the firearm.

Quote:
I'm not saying Baldwin is blameless, I'm just pointing out that the situation is not as black and white and you're painting it and in the real world, there is someone whose sole responsibility is the manage and maintain all aspects of these weapons including their safety on set.


I think my point is that Baldwin fired a loaded gun AT someone. That person later died. I would hold Baldwin accountable for discharging a loaded firearm, regardless of whether he meant to or not. I was not suggesting that Baldwin deliberately set out to murder someone. However, he should be made accountable for negligence in the very least.

Quote:
If that was you, the armourer, since you like hypotheticals, and you've done your job, checked the weapon, announced that it's cold and then handed the weapon to the actor and they then attempt to check the gun how can you be sure they haven't then loaded a bullet?


It comes down to your word versus their's. That is going to be the problem here. You cannot hold a weapons manufacturer for legally selling weapons to a person who then goes on to murder someone with it. An armourer might check a weapon and test fire it before handing the 'safe' gun to the actor. And if the actor does not check the weapon before discharging ammunition at another actor, you would kind of wonder whether the actor was being safety conscious. The armourer could have been lying. Or the one who discharged the gun could have been lying. The onus is on the person using the weapon to make sure it is safe to use.

Quote:
Or what if they don't deliberately load anything but because they're an actor and not a weapons expert, what if part of their wardrobe gets stuck in the barrel without them even realising and when they fire their blank during filming it kills someone by launching the metal stud into their head, all because the actor thought they knew better than you.


Forensics would determine that the projectile was from clothing. And if a person's clothing got caught in the chamber, you would think that the person would be aware of such. Someone else's actions do not make it your responsibility.
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #84 - Oct 30th, 2021 at 11:00pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 29th, 2021 at 8:02am:
You're just not being realistic.  You're acting as if your hours in video games would enable you to pick up a gun and check not only that it's loaded correctly, what type of ammo is in there, how to engage the safety etc, all without blowing your own head off.


As if hours of video gaming had anything to do with my experience with firearms. It has been 17 years since I last touched a handgun. I was shown how to load it. I fired the handgun at a target. Then I gave it back to the person authorised to use it. But, 17 years later, I should be able to safely figure out how to unload a loaded weapon.

Quote:
I've been around any actors before, I wouldn't want them to hold any responsibility with a firearms check whatsoever.


I would suggest that Alec Baldwin was old enough to understand the potential harm in using a firearm. He should have treated the weapon as if it was loaded.
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #85 - Oct 31st, 2021 at 10:13am
 
This hilarious big shot celebrity A-lister untouchable pointed a gun at one of the crew and pulled the trigger, why isn't he in Alcatraz, why isn't the woke media Trump haters giving him hell,, oh yeah he is one of them.
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #86 - Oct 31st, 2021 at 10:18am
 
Johnnie wrote on Oct 31st, 2021 at 10:13am:
This hilarious big shot celebrity A-lister untouchable pointed a gun at one of the crew and pulled the trigger, why isn't he in Alcatraz, why isn't the woke media Trump haters giving him hell,, oh yeah he is one of them.


What sort of creep tries to score cheap political points by exploiting the death of a young woman?

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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #87 - Oct 31st, 2021 at 4:21pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 31st, 2021 at 10:18am:
Johnnie wrote on Oct 31st, 2021 at 10:13am:
This hilarious big shot celebrity A-lister untouchable pointed a gun at one of the crew and pulled the trigger, why isn't he in Alcatraz, why isn't the woke media Trump haters giving him hell,, oh yeah he is one of them.


What sort of creep tries to score cheap political points by exploiting the death of a young woman?


Hypocrite
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rhino
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #88 - Oct 31st, 2021 at 9:57pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 30th, 2021 at 11:00pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 29th, 2021 at 8:02am:
You're just not being realistic.  You're acting as if your hours in video games would enable you to pick up a gun and check not only that it's loaded correctly, what type of ammo is in there, how to engage the safety etc, all without blowing your own head off.


As if hours of video gaming had anything to do with my experience with firearms. It has been 17 years since I last touched a handgun. I was shown how to load it. I fired the handgun at a target. Then I gave it back to the person authorised to use it. But, 17 years later, I should be able to safely figure out how to unload a loaded weapon.
In true Unsubrocky tradition that makes you an expert on firearms, how to safely handle firearms and of course, video gaming.

Quote:
I would suggest that Alec Baldwin was old enough to understand the potential harm in using a firearm. He should have treated the weapon as if it was loaded.
One reason I dont like firearms, idiots and firearms dont mix. Too many idiots around. Nothing to
do with the acting profession whatsoever, Ive seen highly vetted, trained and experienced people do stupid things with firearms.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Alec Baldwin - Tragic Accident
Reply #89 - Nov 1st, 2021 at 2:34am
 
I have to say that I did not understand much of what you wrote there, rhino. One too many glasses of plonk tonight? You say you do not like firearms because idiots and firearms do not mix. Nice to know you admit that you are not intelligent enough to use firearms. Though, you might not be allowed to own one.

I do not see the difficulty in understanding that Baldwin and the armourer should both have inspected the firearm before using it for a scene. One to inspect the firearm. The other to witness that the firearm had been inspected.
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