Australian Politics Forum - Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration

whiteknight

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Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Oct 19^th, 2021 at 12:35pm

18 OCT 2021 Mirage News.
Increase training and wages, not immigration

Electrical Trades Union
Scott Morrison and Dominic Perrottet should concentrate on increasing skills, wages and conditions in the electrical trades sector rather than importing cut price labour from overseas the Electrical Trades Union said today..

The NSW Premier last week opened the door to allowing an additional two million people into the country in the next five years, whilst the Morrison Government is currently negotiating a free trade deal with Britain which will make it easier for hundreds of thousands more Britons to take Australian jobs. Sad

This is despite the stagnant wages and working conditions indicating no competition amongst employers to attract staff.

“Dominic Perrottet and Scott Morrison are solving a problem which doesn’t exist,” said Michael Wright Assistant National Secretary of the Electrical Trades Union of Australia.

“If the resource and sectors were suffering critical skills shortages, we would see rising wages and improving conditions. Instead, we’re fighting against insecure work and a race to the bottom with labour hire. Dumping thousands of temporary British migrants into our capital cities is only going to make these problems worse.

“And the answer to skills shortages is always more training for local apprentices, not bringing in vulnerable workers from overseas.

“We have also seen reports of worrying plans to abolish labour market testing which would allow major employers to import cheap labour to undercut their workforce without any statistical proof of a skills shortage.

“All Australians wage earners know they haven’t seen a pay rise in a decade, but meanwhile their mortgages, rents, and grocery and utility bills have all gone up.

“This feels suspiciously like Scott Morrison and Dominic Perrottet doing the bidding of their mates in the big end of town by bringing in cheap labour to undercut hardworking Australians, it’s a total betrayal.

“This is big business gearing up to pump up their profits at the expense of their workforce under the guise of a COVID recovery plan.

“We urgently need

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Ayn Marx

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Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Reply #1 - Oct 19^th, 2021 at 1:32pm

whiteknight wrote on Oct 19^th, 2021 at 12:35pm:

18 OCT 2021 Mirage News.
Increase training and wages, not immigration

Electrical Trades Union
Scott Morrison and Dominic Perrottet should concentrate on increasing skills, wages and conditions in the electrical trades sector rather than importing cut price labour from overseas the Electrical Trades Union said today..

The NSW Premier last week opened the door to allowing an additional two million people into the country in the next five years, whilst the Morrison Government is currently negotiating a free trade deal with Britain which will make it easier for hundreds of thousands more Britons to take Australian jobs. Sad

This is despite the stagnant wages and working conditions indicating no competition amongst employers to attract staff.

“Dominic Perrottet and Scott Morrison are solving a problem which doesn’t exist,” said Michael Wright Assistant National Secretary of the Electrical Trades Union of Australia.

“If the resource and sectors were suffering critical skills shortages, we would see rising wages and improving conditions. Instead, we’re fighting against insecure work and a race to the bottom with labour hire. Dumping thousands of temporary British migrants into our capital cities is only going to make these problems worse.

“And the answer to skills shortages is always more training for local apprentices, not bringing in vulnerable workers from overseas.

“We have also seen reports of worrying plans to abolish labour market testing which would allow major employers to import cheap labour to undercut their workforce without any statistical proof of a skills shortage.

“All Australians wage earners know they haven’t seen a pay rise in a decade, but meanwhile their mortgages, rents, and grocery and utility bills have all gone up.

“This feels suspiciously like Scott Morrison and Dominic Perrottet doing the bidding of their mates in the big end of town by bringing in cheap labour to undercut hardworking Australians, it’s a total betrayal.

“This is big business gearing up to pump up their profits at the expense of their workforce under the guise of a COVID recovery plan.

“We urgently need

Tottally agree but the dediction of the Liberals to suppressing wages is at the foundation of their so called political philosophy.

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Valkie

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Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Reply #2 - Oct 19^th, 2021 at 2:56pm

howard the coward always said

"The only way Australia can compete with third world manufacturing, is to pay third world wages"

He started the ball rolling with "work no choices"
And was gradually removing the unions.
The unions were decimated and are now toothless tigers and with importing cheap labor, they can knock down incomes even further.

howard the coward looks like his master plan is coming to fruition.
May he forever rot in the deepest depths of hell.

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Reply #3 - Oct 19^th, 2021 at 10:44pm

I did wonder how much the Four Little Beavers, the Chinese team, who put up my 7.7Kw solar system in two hours, were being paid.

The system cost Li'l Ol' Me (coughs - wait for it) $3K - and that was fully installed and certified. Only found out from the power provider that we only had a builder's box and the meter needed to be replaced... no cost. Done today - no charge, and now happily feeding in 5 KwH per hour while running the house during the day on the excess.

Point is - such a system and work etc could not be done without corners being cut somewhere. I appreciate the low cost etc and the benefits... but when the Indian guy at the new servo asked me how much for the old Terr'uh'tree when I put some fuel in it.... he offered $500 - market price with all the work done is 7-8 times that... same thing on Gumtree will run you $7k from a dealer.

This is what happens when businesses are allowed to bring in cheap labour, from 3rd World countries where $500 is a fortune, and then pay them below the proper wage rates HERE!

You have to ask, every time, how much they are actually being paid per hour worked and under what conditions.

We don't need more immigration for skills - we need upgrading of local skills again.

Make Australia Great Again!

ADDS:- And meanwhile, our Young Men, once the mainstay of the nation and economy and now massively excluded from the 'soft' industries - banking, nursing, public service, policing, military, and so forth - and even genuine fair education opportunities to enter professions - to favour femmes - are killing themselves, going gangster, or doing drugs unto eternity.....

All animals are equal - but some are more equal than others, YES?

They are your sons and grand-sons..... you there yet?

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« Last Edit: Oct 19^th, 2021 at 10:54pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Valkie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16097 Central Coast Gender:	Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration Reply #4 - Oct 20^th, 2021 at 7:29am This simply says it all.
Back to top	more_migrants_001.JPG (87 KB \| 3 ) I HAVE A DREAM A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM. A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM. SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU IP Logged

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 43658 Gender:	Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration Reply #5 - Oct 20^th, 2021 at 9:18am Training is run down and will not be increased. Skilled migrants are essential and are fresh blood in the lazy land of “It’ll be orright, mate!” lotus eating.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 80333 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration Reply #6 - Oct 20^th, 2021 at 11:55am Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2021 at 9:18am: Training is run down and will not be increased. Skilled migrants are essential and are fresh blood in the lazy land of “It’ll be orright, mate!” lotus eating. Tell 'im e's dreamin' .....
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Frank

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Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Reply #7 - Oct 20^th, 2021 at 4:42pm

Valkie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2021 at 2:56pm:

howard the coward always said

"The only way Australia can compete with third world manufacturing, is to pay third world wages"

He started the ball rolling with "work no choices"
And was gradually removing the unions.
The unions were decimated and are now toothless tigers and with importing cheap labor, they can knock down incomes even further.

howard the coward looks like his master plan is coming to fruition.
May he forever rot in the deepest depths of hell.

Up to a point, Lord Copper, up to a point.
It started with Hawke and Keating and it was a good thing, opening up the economy. 20-25 million Australians do not need to manufacture EVERYTHING from shoes, shirts, matches and tea towels to toasters and flower pots.

The problem was not beating back the unions of low or no-skill manufacturing. The problem, in my view, is the lip service paid to the 'Clever Country' wheeze by both sides and never doing anything practical and purposeful about it. Both sides were actually captured by the ratbags who run universities and the academic unions and for 15 + years it was all about 'university education' and 'internationalisation of the curriculum'. Which means hundreds of thousands of young people going to uni, learning nothing useful, having a huge debt and then working in a coffee shop.
Only about 1 or 2 % of business ever think of turning to a university for a solution to their business problems. Yet everyone was channelled into useless unis.

It is all about credentialism, not skills. An employer will hire you not because of what you leant at uni but for your sheer grit of sticking it for 3-4 years. The Boss will teach you all you need to know about the business and will not have ANY use of what you learned at uni.

The union is no use to a graduate or a skilled worker, it's something for the cleaners and the NESBs and the other assorted unskilled 'no speaka da' workers who have nothing but their collective.

TAFE was left in the hands of deeply parochial state ministers. So now we have no REAL skilled workforce in high-value fields, no teachers who can teach high value skills. And the lazy answer is to import whatever we need. High level of immigration is a repudiation of the 'clever country' idea. It's the 'let's go shopping' country model, just BUY people in.

I like nothing more than dealing with an articulate, switched on, high-skilled tradie whose horizons extend beyond footie. There aren't enough of them. Valorising useless uni degrees over useful technical and high-value practical skills was the big mistake.

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Gnads

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Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Reply #8 - Oct 21^st, 2021 at 5:45am

Frank wrote on Oct 20^th, 2021 at 4:42pm:

Valkie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2021 at 2:56pm:

howard the coward always said

"The only way Australia can compete with third world manufacturing, is to pay third world wages"

He started the ball rolling with "work no choices"
And was gradually removing the unions.
The unions were decimated and are now toothless tigers and with importing cheap labor, they can knock down incomes even further.

howard the coward looks like his master plan is coming to fruition.
May he forever rot in the deepest depths of hell.

Up to a point, Lord Copper, up to a point.
It started with Hawke and Keating and it was a good thing, opening up the economy. 20-25 million Australians do not need to manufacture EVERYTHING from shoes, shirts, matches and tea towels to toasters and flower pots.

The problem was not beating back the unions of low or no-skill manufacturing. The problem, in my view, is the lip service paid to the 'Clever Country' wheeze by both sides and never doing anything practical and purposeful about it. Both sides were actually captured by the ratbags who run universities and the academic unions and for 15 + years it was all about 'university education' and 'internationalisation of the curriculum'. Which means hundreds of thousands of young people going to uni, learning nothing useful, having a huge debt and then working in a coffee shop.
Only about 1 or 2 % of business ever think of turning to a university for a solution to their business problems. Yet everyone was channelled into useless unis.

It is all about credentialism, not skills. An employer will hire you not because of what you leant at uni but for your sheer grit of sticking it for 3-4 years. The Boss will teach you all you need to know about the business and will not have ANY use of what you learned at uni.

The union is no use to a graduate or a skilled worker, it's something for the cleaners and the NESBs and the other assorted unskilled 'no speaka da' workers who have nothing but their collective.

TAFE was left in the hands of deeply parochial state ministers. So now we have no REAL skilled workforce in high-value fields, no teachers who can teach high value skills. And the lazy answer is to import whatever we need. High level of immigration is a repudiation of the 'clever country' idea. It's the 'let's go shopping' country model, just BUY people in.

I like nothing more than dealing with an articulate, switched on, high-skilled tradie whose horizons extend beyond footie. There aren't enough of them. Valorising useless uni degrees over useful technical and high-value practical skills was the big mistake.

I would agree with that.

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Frank

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Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Reply #9 - Jan 11^th, 2022 at 9:22am

Migration ‘benefits’ not backed up by facts

Productivity in the high migration decade ending 2019 was extremely sluggish. Moreover, the evidence is clear that many skilled migrants are not particularly skilled and do not hold skilled jobs.

One of the angles pushed by big Australia advocates is that migrants provide a fiscal dividend by generating more in tax revenue than they cost (think here education, health and aged care, transfer payments). According to Treasury modelling, skilled primary migrants have a positive lifetime fiscal impact of $319,000 per migrant. (Bear in mind here that only the costs incurred by the federal government are included. The costs borne by the states, including of additional infrastructure, are not counted.)

The problem here is that all the other migrant groups, including skilled secondary (who have a right to accompany skilled primary migrants), have negative fiscal lifetime impacts. Family migrants, who remain a substantial part of the permanent migrant intake, generate a lifetime fiscal impact of negative $137,000 per migrant.

Of course, it is simply not possible to attract skilled migrants without allowing them to be accompanied by their spouse/partner. Many also seek to bring in other family members, including elderly parents (often on temporary visas).

It is also interesting to ponder whether the observed large positive lifetime fiscal impact of skilled primary migrants is skewed by a few highly paid occupations, particularly doctors. It is well known that our health system continues to rely on the steady inflow of foreign-trained doctors.

It seems passing strange when so many of our young folk aspire to be doctors but are rejected because of the limited number of university places, but we regard bringing in doctors from overseas (who would be highly valued in their own countries) as acceptable. The solution is obvious: train more of our own.

When it comes to the immigration debate, I say: bring it on. But watch out for the motives of those pressing for Big Australia, in particular. What is portrayed as being in the national interest is often just a thin disguise for the pursuit of self-interest.
Judith Sloan

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 80333 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration Reply #10 - Jan 11^th, 2022 at 10:02am Yeah, well - we all know from 'studies' that companies that employ more women/ethnics/immigrants/gays etc increase their profitability..... sure they do... shakes head in disbelief
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Reply #11 - Jan 11^th, 2022 at 10:04am

Frank wrote on Jan 11^th, 2022 at 9:22am:

Migration ‘benefits’ not backed up by facts

Productivity in the high migration decade ending 2019 was extremely sluggish. Moreover, the evidence is clear that many skilled migrants are not particularly skilled and do not hold skilled jobs.

One of the angles pushed by big Australia advocates is that migrants provide a fiscal dividend by generating more in tax revenue than they cost (think here education, health and aged care, transfer payments). According to Treasury modelling, skilled primary migrants have a positive lifetime fiscal impact of $319,000 per migrant. (Bear in mind here that only the costs incurred by the federal government are included. The costs borne by the states, including of additional infrastructure, are not counted.)

The problem here is that all the other migrant groups, including skilled secondary (who have a right to accompany skilled primary migrants), have negative fiscal lifetime impacts. Family migrants, who remain a substantial part of the permanent migrant intake, generate a lifetime fiscal impact of negative $137,000 per migrant.

Of course, it is simply not possible to attract skilled migrants without allowing them to be accompanied by their spouse/partner. Many also seek to bring in other family members, including elderly parents (often on temporary visas).

It is also interesting to ponder whether the observed large positive lifetime fiscal impact of skilled primary migrants is skewed by a few highly paid occupations, particularly doctors. It is well known that our health system continues to rely on the steady inflow of foreign-trained doctors.

It seems passing strange when so many of our young folk aspire to be doctors but are rejected because of the limited number of university places, but we regard bringing in doctors from overseas (who would be highly valued in their own countries) as acceptable. The solution is obvious: train more of our own.

When it comes to the immigration debate, I say: bring it on. But watch out for the motives of those pressing for Big Australia, in particular. What is portrayed as being in the national interest is often just a thin disguise for the pursuit of self-interest.
Judith Sloan

Been saying just that for years...... of course, the universities gain a cash bonus from accepting foreign students - they pay full fee... and we all know it's all about money and not education...

By the by - some foreign doctors are excellent - many are 'rote learners' without 'feel' for the profession, and some leave you breathless wondering YTF they are there at all, they know so very little in reality or are slaves to set processes instead of genuine medical investigation *- but their family has money.

Choose your doctor carefully - I prefer to run an hour and a half for my GP - a Sri Lankan lady proven to be outstanding.

*...more than one will persist in sending patients for stress test after stress test when the patient has already proven to fail those and has shown clear signs of cardiac distress - sending that patient for a stress test could produce the heart attack - prevention is better than cure, and repeating the same failed process over and over until the worst happens kills patients.... rote doctors as opposed to a genuine feel for the calling .....

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« Last Edit: Jan 11^th, 2022 at 10:10am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration Reply #12 - Jan 11^th, 2022 at 12:12pm Immigration should be focused on skills when possible, and on the Pacific region when not, as those countries actually need our help unlike those countries that have natural resources. Where immigration is refugee driven, we have the moral right to intervene in those countries.
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Valkie

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Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Reply #13 - Jan 11^th, 2022 at 12:47pm

First and foremost.
Where possible, Australians should be given the necessary training to undertake skilled jobs.
The chronic unemployed should be encouraged or forced into finding work, training provided to assist them into more skilled labour.
Should they be incapable, for whatever reason, they should be required into conscription for a minimum period to teach them self respect, respect for others and becoming a part of society.

All trades should be free training, initially, with a fair contribution scheme after completion. The current system is overpriced.

Professions should also be free or subsidised, however a fair contribution after completion woukd be required.

If, there are still vacancies, only skilled and fully qualified forieghn workers should be allowed, under strict visa conditions, and knowing that it is only for that visa period.

Any migrants, irrespective of status ( refugee or legal applicants) must have something to off to Australia.
Skills or a willingness to learn and contribute.
No dole, pension or any other form of assistance will be allowed until 10 years of taxable work has been completed.
Any additional family members are under the same strict rules. No work, no money.

Commitment of any crime is punishable by immediate deportation.
Lake of passport or refusal to provide sufficient information to identify them will result in instant deportation.

Above all.
Australians first, always.
No work, no money.
Dole bludgers will not be tolerated,.
Criminals have no rights.

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Increase Training And Wages, Not Immigration
Reply #14 - Jan 11^th, 2022 at 2:21pm

Valkie wrote on Jan 11^th, 2022 at 12:47pm:

First and foremost.
Where possible, Australians should be given the necessary training to undertake skilled jobs.
The chronic unemployed should be encouraged or forced into finding work, training provided to assist them into more skilled labour.
Should they be incapable, for whatever reason, they should be required into conscription for a minimum period to teach them self respect, respect for others and becoming a part of society.

All trades should be free training, initially, with a fair contribution scheme after completion. The current system is overpriced.

Professions should also be free or subsidised, however a fair contribution after completion woukd be required.

If, there are still vacancies, only skilled and fully qualified forieghn workers should be allowed, under strict visa conditions, and knowing that it is only for that visa period.

Any migrants, irrespective of status ( refugee or legal applicants) must have something to off to Australia.
Skills or a willingness to learn and contribute.
No dole, pension or any other form of assistance will be allowed until 10 years of taxable work has been completed.
Any additional family members are under the same strict rules. No work, no money.

Commitment of any crime is punishable by immediate deportation.
Lake of passport or refusal to provide sufficient information to identify them will result in instant deportation.

Above all.
Australians first, always.
No work, no money.
Dole bludgers will not be tolerated,.
Criminals have no rights.

Right on the money.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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