Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 8:03am:

I think its more likely that he did exist than not.

The fact that the cult of Joshua and its subsequent Jerusalem Assembly (lead by James, Joshua's brother) was usurped and morphed into Christianity (initiated by Paul) is more interesting historically.

By the time of the death of James and soon after Paul's death, it would have been considered a safe bet that, if only one of them (the Judaic Jerusalem Assembly or Christianity) would survive, that the Jerusalem Assembly would have been the one.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 8:11am:

I doubt it. That “Roman census” that caused Joseph and Mary to travel to Bethlehem—never happened.

If “Jesus” had existed he would have married and had kids. Did he?

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 8:43am:

True. The census did happen, but not in the timeframe given. It was a birth story written long after the events (around 90 AD) by non-Jews to place the birth of Joshua at the birthplace of David.

There is almost nothing known of Joshua's life. The Gospel of Mark (the oldest known) made no mention of any nativity story.

The only facts that nearly all theologists agree on is that Joshua was a Jew, that he preached about the coming of a kingdom of god and that he was executed for sedition by the occupying Romans (one of literally thousands executed).

Much more is known of his brother James, who literally lived twice as long as Joshua, and who continued Joshua's movement as the leader of the Jerusalem Assembly.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 8:03am:


JM,

I'm happy for you to believe whatever you want to believe.

And if you want to believe that Jesus didn't exist, that is fine with me.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 9:15am:

No. It's clear that it was known by the members of the Jerusalem Assembly that Joshua existed and that James was his brother and unquestioned leader of the Assembly (even Paul acknowledges that).

The thing is, despite popular belief, Joshua was virtually unknown to the people of Palestine outside his very small circle of followers... Ridiculously small, relative to others who claimed to be the Messiah around the same time, all of whom were executed by Rome for making the claim.

The fact that Christianity survived at all is the biggest mystery and one of the greatest comeback stories in history (even if the Christian story told today bears almost no resemblance to the original story as told by the Jerusalem Assembly).

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 9:24am:

Yes, I have read a fair bit.

The most likely story of Joshua's life is nowhere near as grand as the second century Christians developed...

And anything that is generally agreed Joshua preached is much closer to Islam than the Christianity we know of today.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 10:10am:

No, Joshua did not break Jewish law. And neither did James, his brother, who was known as James the Just by all who knew and respected him, including the temple priests.

James was so devout a Jew that many commented that his knees looked like those of a camel's due to the number of his prostrations at the temple.

Joshua's preaching was radical, however and certainly challenged temple authorities. It appears he preached, not equality for all Jews (and he only preached to Jews, not to Gentiles), but an upending of the social order such that the poor would take power by overthrowing the rich and powerful.

The only reason he survived for the three years of his ministry (until he made his suicidal mission to overthrow the temple order), was that he confined his ministry to Galilee, which was an impoverished backwater in Palestine at the time and of no concern to the power elite who ran Judea.

In fact virtually no one had heard of Joshua in Jerusalem before his 'storming' of the temple.

Frank wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 10:28am:

It's certain the Mohammed existed. It's as good as certain that Joshua existed. It's highly likely that Siddharta existed. It's unlikely that Moses existed.

However, religion is what evolving traditions and/or followers make of spiritual leaders' preachings.

Even Mohammed insisted he was not creating a new religion and that his 'revelations' by the angel Gabriel were not new, but reminders of the words of the prophets that had gone before as the followers of the gods El and Yahweh (by then combined into one as Yahweh).

Siddhartha was likely reforming Hinduism not creating Buddhism.

Joshua certainly did not create Christianity. That was clearly done by Paul.