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Demographic change = cultural transformation (Read 1960 times)
FutureTheLeftWant
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #15 - May 27th, 2022 at 2:36pm
 
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2022 at 1:20pm:


There will always be crime.  Racists will always be able to find minoroties commiting crime and lie about it
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John Smith
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #16 - May 27th, 2022 at 7:26pm
 
Grin Grin Grin Grin

Perhaps frank should farrk off back to whatever shithole he comes from lest the demographics change their too.

Just a suggestion
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #17 - May 27th, 2022 at 7:45pm
 
John Smith wrote on May 27th, 2022 at 7:26pm:
Grin Grin Grin Grin

Perhaps frank should farrk off back to whatever shithole he comes from lest the demographics change their too.

Just a suggestion


I know, I know, typo.

You gave Australia garlic bread, Gino, Denmark gave Australia the one architectural icon everyone recognises as Australian, the Sydney Opera House.

In so far as you share in the English inheritance - or Sicilian, Normandy, Russ etc - the Danes are your grand-daddy, Thick as Innumerable Planks. Even English is largely derived from Danish, either as a Germanic language or as the language of the Latinate Normans who were also Danes.

You live in a country rooted in Danish history, language, civilisation.  Do you like Danish, Gino?  You are more Dane than Italian if you speak English, respect common law, parliament.
Know your limits, bozo. Vespas and ice cream are noice but civilisationally Italy is best noted for Mussolini and garlic.








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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #18 - May 28th, 2022 at 1:40am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 20th, 2022 at 10:59pm:
No. I actually do get it.


No you don't.

Quote:
To this day Africa is in economic chaos because of the economic mismanagement of their governments of the last 20 years.


...and the expropriation of African resources and profits  by Western colonialist  companies for the last 100 years, before and after these countries achieved independence. 

Quote:
Zimbabwe, South Africa, Somalia, and Eritrea seem to be at the forefront of economic disaster zones -


see above

Quote:
- perhaps not South Africa so much, but they probably will head downwards soon.


Indeed S. Africa has 50% unemployment among blacks,  partly due to dysfunctional rules of international trade, and partly due to greedy exploitative  white-managed  mining companies during and after the apartheid era.    

Quote:
We can see places like Kenya attaining a first-world lifestyle (and perhaps have already done so for quite some time).


" The GDP per Capita in Kenya - c.$1500 -  is equivalent to 12 percent of the world's average. source: World Bank".

Yeh.."1st world lifestyle" alright...(although Kenya has managed to successfully maintain and operate  a functional  pre-industrial agricultural economy alongside a modern economy,  and so has avoided the political and economic  chaos of most African nations subject to overseas exploitation and trade disadvantage,  with similarly low per capita GDP.

Quote:
Ethiopia had a history of economic mismanagement and famine. But, having forgotten the name of the man responsible for turning things around there, I have watched with casual interest as the country races up the human development index quite well. Rwanda has its capital Kigali depicted as a vibrant modern society. Remember, 30 years ago, Rwandans faced a crisis of slaughtered villagers in the region.


Ethiopia per capita GDP c. $1000. Rwanda c. $800.

Quote:
I can agree with you that GW Bush, during his presidency, bombed Iraq for the sake of attaining favourable positions with oil acquisition. That can explain the state of the country in the last 20 years. But, when we look at another country, Afghanistan, that had also a foreign presence, we could argue that the locals there have never seen it so good. And the youth had grown up in Afghanistan not knowing what the Taliban were like. The elders had almost forgotten Taliban rule. But, once the Americans farked off out of there, the Taliban had retaken part of Afghanistan in a week. The Taliban had control of Afghanistan inside a fortnight. And now, the Taliban have reimposed much of the rules that they had in place through Afghanistan like they did prior to the year 2002.


Afghans had to fight the British empire, then the Russians,  then the yanks.

Recently, the economy increased  from pc gdp $200 in 2004 (the start of the US occupation , to pc gdp $640 in 2014, and has since declined to $500 in 2020.

God knows what is currently, now that the US has applied sanctions and locked $5 billion of Afghan reserves in Western banks, to spite the Taliban, and now half the nation is starving.....

Quote:
You can only be racist against white people for so long before all the excuses get made obsolete.


Utter BS. Colonialist exploitation takes generations to overcome, just as Oz blacks* remain mired in generational poverty and disadvantage inflicted by white colonialism. 

** but not whites who identify themselves as blacks for their 'cultural'  and familial ties to the black aboriginal race, a strange phenomenon.
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« Last Edit: May 28th, 2022 at 1:46am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #19 - May 28th, 2022 at 3:25am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 28th, 2022 at 1:40am:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 20th, 2022 at 10:59pm:
No. I actually do get it.


No you don't.

...and the expropriation of African resources and profits  by Western colonialist  companies for the last 100 years, before and after these countries achieved independence. 


Uhuh. And Australians were not making a sheeit tonne of money from the resources they were mining when they were subjects of the British empire. I have paid enough attention to the third world concerns to know that the decolonised societies are in the craphole because the people living there want to pump out 5 or more children per woman.

Quote:
Zimbabwe, South Africa, Somalia, and Eritrea seem to be at the forefront of economic disaster zones -


Because their leaders want to exploit the idea that colonialism was the problem in their lives. As it is, most African nations are at least 40 years decolonised. If a nation could not get their act together inside 40 years, the problem is not their former colonisers. Australia went from being third world to having a higher standard of living compared to their colonisers inside 30 years (1788 to 1815). If an African nation cannot start over and thrive, they are at fault.

Quote:
Indeed S. Africa has 50% unemployment among blacks,  partly due to dysfunctional rules of international trade, and partly due to greedy exploitative  white-managed  mining companies during and after the apartheid era.


F'k off. When apartheid ended in the early 1990s, international sanctions came to an end. When Mandela was elected, there was an upward trend in the socioeconomics of black South Africans. But, after about 5 years of bullshit mismanagement, South Africa saw a decline in living standards. Black South Africans are more about partying about with their blackness rather than trying to contribute to progressing a developing country.

Quote:
" The GDP per Capita in Kenya - c.$1500 -  is equivalent to 12 percent of the world's average. source: World Bank".


I am biased because of the video I saw of some New Zealander doing the tourism thing in Nairobi. The city is doing okay. Kenyans that I have spoken to have told me that the cities are doing well. The rural areas are still third world. But, Kenya is still better off than most of African nations.

Quote:
Yeh.."1st world lifestyle" alright...(although Kenya has managed to successfully maintain and operate  a functional  pre-industrial agricultural economy alongside a modern economy,  and so has avoided the political and economic  chaos of most African nations subject to overseas exploitation and trade disadvantage,  with similarly low per capita GDP.


The only thing Africa has going for it is their abundance of natural resources. The low-wage of Africans will mean that they can be competitive internationally, as long as they make the most of this situation

Quote:
Ethiopia per capita GDP c. $1000. Rwanda c. $800.


Would you rather an Ethiopia today? Or an Ethiopia 35 years ago? The only way is up economically for Ethiopia. Else it is starvation for them. Rwanda has modern cities.

Quote:
Afghans had to fight the British empire, then the Russians,  then the yanks.


They won against the Brits, and the Soviets. They lost to the Yanks. The Yanks left last year. The Afghans won back their country and their right to live a caveman lifestyle again.

USR: Quote:
You can only be racist against white people for so long before all the excuses get made obsolete.


thegreatdivide: Quote:
Utter BS. Colonialist exploitation takes generations to overcome, just as Oz blacks* remain mired in generational poverty and disadvantage inflicted by white colonialism. 

** but not whites who identify themselves as blacks for their 'cultural'  and familial ties to the black aboriginal race, a strange phenomenon.


Australia overcame colonial third worldism inside 30 years. Afghanistan reverted back to third world lifestyles within 6 months. Australia's aboriginal people took to the drink and sit down money that resulted in their idle culture taking place. Do not blame non-indigenous people for that. Why is it that there are indigenous people that work hard and attain a good standard of living in the country their third world ancestors suffered? Because they adapted to the modern world.
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #20 - May 28th, 2022 at 3:42pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 28th, 2022 at 3:25am:
Uhuh. And Australians were not making a sheeit tonne of money from the resources they were mining when they were subjects of the British empire.


Er..."Australians" were Brit expatriates (whether criminals or freemen). The abos were considered non- humans not entitled to vote.

Quote:
I have paid enough attention to the third world concerns to know that the decolonised societies are in the craphole because the people living there want to pump out 5 or more children per woman.


Your ignorance of colonial exploitation - and ongoing problems after independence is achieved -  is egregious.

https://medium.com/illumination/neocolonialism-how-western-corporations-are-expl...

Neocolonialism: How Western Corporations Are Exploiting Africa.
The ongoing cycle of poverty in Africa and the failure of development.


Quote:
Because their leaders want to exploit the idea that colonialism was the problem in their lives. As it is, most African nations are at least 40 years decolonised. If a nation could not get their act together inside 40 years, the problem is not their former colonisers.


Refuted above; you are now merely an apologist for multi-national Western companies, as shown in the above article. 

Quote:
Australia went from being third world to having a higher standard of living compared to their colonisers inside 30 years (1788 to 1815). If an African nation cannot start over and thrive, they are at fault.


'Aussies' (originally Brits) WERE 'the colonizers' in Australia....


Quote:
F'k off.


The usual response from 'burden of the white man' ignorant  ideologues, when confronted with reality

Quote:
When apartheid ended in the early 1990s, international sanctions came to an end.


And black workers were still living in poverty.

Quote:
When Mandela was elected, there was an upward trend in the socioeconomics of black South Africans. But, after about 5 years of bullshit mismanagement, South Africa saw a decline in living standards.


meanwhile white managed  companies were still paying poverty-level wages to black workers living in shanty towns.

Quote:
Black South Africans are more about partying about with their blackness rather than trying to contribute to progressing a developing country.


Refuted in the above article. 

Quote:
I am biased because of the video I saw of some New Zealander doing the tourism thing in Nairobi. The city is doing okay. Kenyans that I have spoken to have told me that the cities are doing well. The rural areas are still third world. But, Kenya is still better off than most of African nations.


for reasons I explained (preservation of a successful pre-industrial, local, agricultural tradition). 


Quote:
The only thing Africa has going for it is their abundance of natural resources. The low-wage of Africans will mean that they can be competitive internationally, as long as they make the most of this situation


Unfair exploitation of Africa's resources by Western companies continues as outlined in the above article, resulting in corruption among black rulers unable to see the true source of African disadvantage. 

Quote:
Would you rather an Ethiopia today? Or an Ethiopia 35 years ago? The only way is up economically for Ethiopia. Else it is starvation for them. Rwanda has modern cities.


I would rather the IMF, World Bank and WTO oversee   stable development in all African nations. Per capita gdp's in the low  $thousands or less is a condemnation of present international  trade arrangements.

Quote:
They won against the Brits, and the Soviets. They lost to the Yanks. The Yanks left last year. The Afghans won back their country and their right to live a caveman lifestyle again.


Yeh.. because the US and USSR  rejected Evatt's proposals for a world in which  war is eliminated as a means of dispute settlement between nations  (in talks during  the UN Charter's creation in 1946).   

Quote:
Australia overcame colonial third worldism inside 30 years.


I have identified your confusion above. Australia was colonized by "Australians" (ie Brits) who were not natives.


Quote:
Afghanistan reverted back to third world lifestyles within 6 months.


Not surprising, given US sanctions and denial of Afghan reserves to the Taliban.

Quote:
Australia's aboriginal people took to the drink and sit down money that resulted in their idle culture taking place.


The colonizers failed to exterminate the abos, so the survivors were subject to discrimination - and failure to understand the problems faced by a stone-age culture in adapting to the 'civilized' world. 

Quote:
Do not blame non-indigenous people for that.


Addressed above.

Quote:
Why is it that there are indigenous people that work hard and attain a good standard of living in the country their third world ancestors suffered? Because they adapted to the modern world.


Some  are the result of white/non-white cohabitation, and hence were more easily able to make the transition into the civilized' world.
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« Last Edit: May 28th, 2022 at 3:52pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #21 - May 28th, 2022 at 4:00pm
 
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2022 at 7:45pm:
You gave Australia garlic bread, Gino, Denmark gave Australia the one architectural icon everyone recognises as Australian, the Sydney Opera House.


Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

you didn't give poo. That was bought and paid for despite his having a hissy fit. And if you think the Italians just gave garlic bread you're an even bigger moron than I thought. And i already think you're a pretty big moron

Frank wrote on May 27th, 2022 at 7:45pm:
In so far as you share in the English inheritance - or Sicilian, Normandy, Russ etc - the Danes are your grand-daddy,

Grin Grin Grin

the Danes barely rate a mention in history. They're not the grand daddy they're more like the neighbour great dane that makes a racquet and runs all over the place.

But if you like you can thank the roman for teaching the world how to act civilizedFrank wrote on May 27th, 2022 at 7:45pm:
You live in a country rooted in Danish history, language, civilisation.


Grin Grin Grin Grin
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

deluded doesn't even begin to describe you


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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #22 - May 29th, 2022 at 1:05pm
 
G'day greatdivide. The original European settlers of Australia were British expatriates. But, because the settlers landed halfway around the world, much of their survival relied on their own settlement development. If you have ever read up on the original first fleeters, they nearly died off of starvation and disease, had it not been for the reinforcement of supplies and the second fleet. Ergo, Australia (Sydney settlement) was a third world society prior to 1820.

Third world exploitation is a big problem in African countries. But, much of that is from big business and primary industries taking advantage of the disorganised African nations that have not got their economies running smoothly. If African nations made commonsense unionised workplaces work, Australian primary industries may well be in for a rough ride competing.

Realistically speaking straight to the point, African nations have had at least 40 years to get their act together. This point should not need repeating a third time for you, greatdivide. I am only 43 years old and my life is half over. But, look how far I have come in the last 30 years. African nations have had the benefit of hindsight and the basic set up of Western imperialism allowing them to build on their economic development. The fact that African nations sometimes fail because of their own incompetence is not the fault of their former colonisers.

Black workers in South Africa were still considered outsiders before apartheid ended in South Africa. Most were born in South Africa. Most Black South Africans were poor because of the economic conditions that had them poor. If you are 30 million living among 5 million who are trying to prevent their own genocide, you can expect to be treated poorly. After apartheid ended in the early 1990s, Black South Africans experienced a general rise in standard of living. White South Africans saw a fall in their living standards. And when the ANC dicked around with economic management, living standards of all South Africans fell. And whilst you might complain about poverty-level wages being given to Black South Africans living in shanty towns, the economic conditions of South Africa mean that companies have to do this to stay afloat.

I would like to see African nations have a rise in standards of living, too. That would mean that Australia's primary industries (still a major player in our exports) would be more competitive. But, Europe and North America seem to need a low-wage workforce in Africa to get their natural resources. A former Nigerian co-worker told me that the cost of living in Nigeria is one-third to half what it is in Australia. So, working for a low wage is not something that bothered him.

thegreatdivide: Quote:
I have identified your confusion above. Australia was colonized by "Australians" (ie Brits) who were not natives.


Your idiocy is quite telling. Australia, upon settlement, was a third world society for the small areas that were being settled by Europeans (Brits). Not much exploration was being done in the first 30 years. It was all about establishing a means for survival. And when Sydney became a viable place to live, it became desirable to come to Australia to escape the industrial revolution going on in Britain. Settlers between 1788 and 1815 in Sydney Cove could not go "Well, the reason why we are poor is because of the racial discrimination by indigenous people". Settlers had to start from scratch in Australia. But, Africans after decolonisation in the 1970s had an already established society that they could have BUILT from. If they failed, then it was their own fault.

USR: Quote:
Afghanistan reverted back to third world lifestyles within 6 months.


thegreatdivide: Quote:
Not surprising, given US sanctions and denial of Afghan reserves to the Taliban.


Pfft! Third worldism seems to be the Afghan way of life for Taliban rulers. if you looked at pictures of Afghanistan in the 1970s, they had a good standard of living. But, when you apply caveman culture to a region, the first world lifestyle just disappears. No matter what sanctions the US places on Afghanistan, the Taliban are already trying to make Afghanistan a backwards third world society. This will stay that way until the Taliban decide to change their ways for the better.

Quote:
The colonizers failed to exterminate the abos, so the survivors were subject to discrimination - and failure to understand the problems faced by a stone-age culture in adapting to the 'civilized' world.


The colonisers made a strong attempt to finish the job that introduced disease had started against the indigenous Australians. And whilst I can sympathise with those that witnessed/endured genocidal policies of indigenous people, I cannot sympathise with indigenous people born after 1970 who were not subjected to discrimination in legislation. Heck, even those Indigenous Australians born after 1992 when there are definitely no policies in place to hinder their development, still seem to use their racial heritage as an excuse for their failure.

USR: Quote:
Why is it that there are indigenous people that work hard and attain a good standard of living in the country their third world ancestors suffered? Because they adapted to the modern world.


thegreatdivide: Quote:
Some are the result of white/non-white cohabitation, and hence were more easily able to make the transition into the civilized' world.


Appreciate your concession
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #23 - May 29th, 2022 at 3:13pm
 
The major Demographic change of Europe is that it is moving away from serving the Middle-East in the way of Politics, Religion and Military  -  towards Medicine, Music, Sport just to name some on both sides.

Germany has ditched Political/Military/Religion and handed over to the women to handle better. NAZISM was created by Politics/Military/Religion to which in modern times betrayed Germany with a false future.

France will be soon forced to ditch its Christianity like a cathedral burnt down, along with Politics and Military (crap subs) and become more European... the true Europe before the oppression of Politics/Religion/Military from the Middle-East.

Italy will also lose such centuries of Political/Military/Religious empowerment - but not after the MAFIA/VATICAN supernova for such.

Even Britain - which served the Middle-East's agenda the most, thus having successful colonisations in the New Worlds, will eventually die a cruel death of its political/military/religious cultural empowerment to become 'more European' as it truely was before 2-3000 years ago, to what it really needs to be in the future.

The winds of change are blowing. Eurovision will be more empowering to Europe than the EU (or NATO) in the future.

Religion/Military/Politics is receding back from the old worlds of Europe, Asia and Africa back to the Middle-East,
just as such things of the Media left like Sport, Music, Medicine (to name some) are being kicked out of the New Worlds of North America, South America and Sahul (Oz) to Oceania where it belongs.

This is the winds of change.
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #24 - May 29th, 2022 at 4:21pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 29th, 2022 at 1:05pm:
G'day greatdivide. The original European settlers of Australia were British expatriates. But, because the settlers landed halfway around the world, much of their survival relied on their own settlement development.


Wrong. Without the arrival of another ship from Britain within a year, the first settlement would have starved to death (due to crop failure, iirc) 

Quote:
If you have ever read up on the original first fleeters, they nearly died off of starvation and disease, had it not been for the reinforcement of supplies and the second fleet. Ergo, Australia (Sydney settlement) was a third world society prior to 1820.


Funny how RW ideologues always draw the wrong conclusions from the accepted facts.

Oz was not a '3rd world' society prior to 1820, it was a functioning hunter gatherer society without the relative poverty we associate with the term 3rd world poverty,  in the modern global economy. [People can be naked and without permanent homes in a hunter gatherer culture, yet not experience the deprivations of '3rd world poverty'.

Ie,  when Governor Phillip constructed government house using 1st world (British) technology, the abos living in the rest of Oz were still prospering, albeit  in the stone age, very different to the 3rd world poverty in, say, in China in 1820. 

Quote:
Third world exploitation is a big problem in African countries. But, much of that is from big business and primary industries taking advantage of the disorganised African nations that have not got their economies running smoothly. If African nations made commonsense unionised workplaces work, Australian primary industries may well be in for a rough ride competing.


Yes, and the responsibility for this disorganization must be shared by the colonial masters' poor management of independence movements ( sometimes by out-right hostility and obstruction). 

Quote:
Realistically speaking straight to the point, African nations have had at least 40 years to get their act together. This point should not need repeating a third time for you, greatdivide.


You already ignoring this truth?  (from the linked article, to repeat:

Neocolonialism: How Western Corporations Are Exploiting Africa.
The ongoing cycle of poverty in Africa and the failure of development.


Quote:
I am only 43 years old and my life is half over. But, look how far I have come in the last 30 years. African nations have had the benefit of hindsight and the basic set up of Western imperialism allowing them to build on their economic development. The fact that African nations sometimes fail because of their own incompetence is not the fault of their former colonisers.


I showed that was complete nonsense in my previous post, and had to repeat it again, because your blind survival of the fittest neoliberal orhthodoxy renders you incapable of thinking outside your comfortable self-justifying ideology.   

Quote:
Black workers in South Africa were still considered outsiders before apartheid ended in South Africa.


Black workers were considered 2nd class citizens during apartheid. 

Quote:
Most were born in South Africa. Most Black South Africans were poor because of the economic conditions that had them poor. If you are 30 million living among 5 million who are trying to prevent their own genocide, you can expect to be treated poorly.


Typical 'blame poverty on poor' RW ignorance; hence you blame the perceived insecurity (and possible genocide)  of 5 million white oppressors - which is the direct result  their poor treatment of 30 million blacks - on the blacks themselves.   

Quote:
After apartheid ended in the early 1990s, Black South Africans experienced a general rise in standard of living.


More complicted than that:

During the apartheid era black South Africans indicated markedly lower levels of happiness and satisfaction in all spheres of life than their white counterparts. The gap between black and white subjective well-being closed temporarily after the first universal franchise elections held on April 27, 1994 only to widen again eighteen months later. The paper presents data on subjective well-being collected during the 1980s and 1990s in four nationwide cross-sectional attitude surveys and a multipurpose household survey. Possible explanations for the shifting levels of happiness are explored. These include levels of living, income inequality, rising expectations and new anxieties experienced in the post-apartheid era.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1006828608870

(Cont.)






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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #25 - May 29th, 2022 at 4:27pm
 
Operation Dudule ("push back") - black South Africans against African immigration to their countries.

Must be.... er..... black supremacist racist - oh wait, what?

"They are stealing our jobs, they bring crime"  Shocked

...


Black Trumps. Tsk, tsk  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
...

https://www.dw.com/en/south-africa-new-campaign-reignites-xenophobic-rhetoric/a-...

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« Last Edit: May 29th, 2022 at 4:33pm by Frank »  

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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #26 - May 29th, 2022 at 4:49pm
 
Only the British used/use the word 'Black'.
Unlike the Boers who used the culturally respectful names of Khoi, San, Xhosa, Hottentot and more.

It's these people (not 'blacks') who are against the marauding Bantus from the north. The same Bantus who are infiltrating en mass and genociding the other non-Bantu peoples once the numbers are up. The Southern African peoples are too wise to allow this to happen and are pre-meditating the violence of what the Bantu's have done in other parts of Africa.

Remember, the Khoi, San, Hottentot, Xhosa and others 'volunteered' to help the Boers against the British.
It was the Coloureds, then 'imported Blacks' that were 'bought' by the British to fight on their side.
...probably hence why there was racism against 'Blacks' (Bantu) - no?
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #27 - May 29th, 2022 at 5:09pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 29th, 2022 at 1:05pm:
White South Africans saw a fall in their living standards.


Misleading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_South_Africans#Post-apartheid_era

......"There were also some white Africans in South Africa who lived in poverty—especially during the 1930s and increasingly since the end of minority rule. ....

In 2010, Reuters stated that 450,000 whites live below the poverty line according to Solidarity and civil organisations,[23] with some research saying that up to 150,000 are struggling for survival.[24] However, the proportion of white South Africans living in poverty is still much lower than for other groups in the country, since approximately 50% of the general population fall below the upper-bound poverty line.

"The new phenomenon of white poverty is mostly blamed on the government's affirmative action employment legislation, which reserves 80% of new jobs for black people[22] and favours companies owned by black people (see Black Economic Empowerment)".


So, still obviously a highly dysfunctional economy, before during and after apartheid. 

Quote:
And when the ANC dicked around with economic management,


You mean...with affirmative action (as noted above) in a misdirected attempt to raise black living standards...


Quote:
living standards of all South Africans fell. And whilst you might complain about poverty-level wages being given to Black South Africans living in shanty towns, the economic conditions of South Africa mean that companies have to do this to stay afloat.


Indeed as noted above: a dysfunctional multi-racial South African economy.

Quote:
I would like to see African nations have a rise in standards of living, too.


But you haven't a clue how to achieve it; the issues are complex and involve economic dysfunction at both  the national and international level

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That would mean that Australia's primary industries (still a major player in our exports) would be more competitive. But, Europe and North America seem to need a low-wage workforce in Africa to get their natural resources. A former Nigerian co-worker told me that the cost of living in Nigeria is one-third to half what it is in Australia. So, working for a low wage is not something that bothered him.


so you have at least an inkling that international trade affects national economies....

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Your idiocy is quite telling. Australia, upon settlement, was a third world society for the small areas that were being settled by Europeans (Brits).


Wrong. The first stone Government House in Sydney built by the Brits  was a 1st world creation, with technology and  many furnishings imported from Britain. 

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Not much exploration was being done in the first 30 years. It was all about establishing a means for survival. And when Sydney became a viable place to live, it became desirable to come to Australia to escape the industrial revolution going on in Britain.


....fair enough narrative so far, I won't quibble..let's read on:

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Settlers between 1788 and 1815 in Sydney Cove could not go "Well, the reason why we are poor is because of the racial discrimination by indigenous people".
 

But the governor was  living in 1st world luxury, in the first stone Government House, protected by first world military technology.

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Settlers had to start from scratch in Australia. But, Africans after decolonisation in the 1970s had an already established society that they could have BUILT from. If they failed, then it was their own fault.


Addressed an disproved above. The dysfunction in South Africa is ongoing; whereas the Brits were simply able (at the barrel of a gun)  to push the abos further and further into the Oz hinterland, via genocide, introduced disease, and land dispossession.

[But those 'innocent' crimes are coming home to roost, hence the Uluru Statement" which will be the subject of a referendum.

cont.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #28 - May 29th, 2022 at 5:51pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 29th, 2022 at 1:05pm:
Pfft! Third worldism seems to be the Afghan way of life for Taliban rulers. if you looked at pictures of Afghanistan in the 1970s, they had a good standard of living.


Correct; indeed the entire M.E.  was on the path to modernization until cold war warriors in the US and Brit started overthrowing Arab nation's leaders (eg Iran in 1952, Nasser in Egypt  in 1956, Hussein in Iraq in 2001) Afghanistan 2003). ie, Islamic fundamentalism eg Bin Laden and the Taliban  was the direct result of US and British imperialism in the M.E.

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But, when you apply caveman culture to a region, the first world lifestyle just disappears.


Third world conditions under warlords in outback Afghanistan existed alongside advanced lifestyle in Kabul in the 70's. The West is responsible for the creation of a terrorist Islamic culture with the Taliban taking power in Kabul - which the US attempted to bomb back to the stone age, and failed.

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No matter what sanctions the US places on Afghanistan, the Taliban are already trying to make Afghanistan a backwards third world society.


No they aren't: they are trying to introduce a fundamentalist Islamic republic. 

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This will stay that way until the Taliban decide to change their ways for the better.


Yes. Note: China is attempting to re-educate Islamic fundamentalist terrorists in Xinjiang, in contrast to the US attempt to bomb the Taliban into submission in Afghanistan.

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The (Oz)  colonisers made a strong attempt to finish the job that introduced disease had started against the indigenous Australians. And whilst I can sympathise with those that witnessed/endured genocidal policies of indigenous people, I cannot sympathise with indigenous people born after 1970 who were not subjected to discrimination in legislation.


That's because you don't understand the reality of ongoing generational poverty and disadvantage, which requires the correct  government interventions. 

Quote:
Heck, even those Indigenous Australians born after 1992 when there are definitely no policies in place to hinder their development, still seem to use their racial heritage as an excuse for their failure.


The blacks drinking themselves to death on Broome beaches and elsewhere are not thinking about "excuses"...fact is discrimination in housing and employment is still rife.....and lately, Australia can't even decently house all of its white population, with oppressive rents, oppressive out-sized mortgages, and homelessness for those unable to compete in such a dysfunctional housing market, being the order of the day. 


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Frank
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Re: Demographic change = cultural transformation
Reply #29 - May 29th, 2022 at 10:08pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 29th, 2022 at 5:51pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 29th, 2022 at 1:05pm:
Pfft! Third worldism seems to be the Afghan way of life for Taliban rulers. if you looked at pictures of Afghanistan in the 1970s, they had a good standard of living.


Correct; indeed the entire M.E.  was on the path to modernization until cold war warriors in the US and Brit started overthrowing Arab nation's leaders (eg Iran in 1952, Nasser in Egypt  in 1956, Hussein in Iraq in 2001) Afghanistan 2003). ie, Islamic fundamentalism eg Bin Laden and the Taliban  was the direct result of US and British imperialism in the M.E.

Quote:
But, when you apply caveman culture to a region, the first world lifestyle just disappears.


Third world conditions under warlords in outback Afghanistan existed alongside advanced lifestyle in Kabul in the 70's. The West is responsible for the creation of a terrorist Islamic culture with the Taliban taking power in Kabul - which the US attempted to bomb back to the stone age, and failed.

Quote:
No matter what sanctions the US places on Afghanistan, the Taliban are already trying to make Afghanistan a backwards third world society.


No they aren't: they are trying to introduce a fundamentalist Islamic republic. 

Quote:
This will stay that way until the Taliban decide to change their ways for the better.


Yes. Note: China is attempting to re-educate Islamic fundamentalist terrorists in Xinjiang, in contrast to the US attempt to bomb the Taliban into submission in Afghanistan.

Quote:
The (Oz)  colonisers made a strong attempt to finish the job that introduced disease had started against the indigenous Australians. And whilst I can sympathise with those that witnessed/endured genocidal policies of indigenous people, I cannot sympathise with indigenous people born after 1970 who were not subjected to discrimination in legislation.


That's because you don't understand the reality of ongoing generational poverty and disadvantage, which requires the correct  government interventions. 

Quote:
Heck, even those Indigenous Australians born after 1992 when there are definitely no policies in place to hinder their development, still seem to use their racial heritage as an excuse for their failure.


The blacks drinking themselves to death on Broome beaches and elsewhere are not thinking about "excuses"...fact is discrimination in housing and employment is still rife.....and lately, Australia can't even decently house all of its white population, with oppressive rents, oppressive out-sized mortgages, and homelessness for those unable to compete in such a dysfunctional housing market, being the order of the day. 



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