Australian Politics Forum - Mt Warning to stay closed.

Mattyfisk

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #45 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:20pm

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 6:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:22am:

It looks like the petition to keep MT. warnings climbing trail open has been a wasted effort.

Note the last paragraph where the Minister side steps the issue with waffle about govt. expenditure on walking trail alternatives.

Notch up Ayres Rock2 Roll Eyes

Quote:

Ms Helen Minnican
Clerk of the Legislative Assembly
Parliament House
Macquarie Street
SYDNEY NSW 2000
Dear Ms Minnican
Thank you for your email about an ePetition with more than 500 signatures requesting
reopening the Wollumbin (Mount Warning) summit track in Wollumbin National Park.
Wollumbin National Park was closed by the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) in
March 2020 due to COVID-19 health restrictions. The closure has been extended until the
end of November 2021 due to public safety risks associated with the summit walking track
and permit further consultation with the Aboriginal community and other key stakeholders
about the future management of the site.
I am advised the decision to extend the closure due to public safety risks was based on a
structural assessment carried out in August 2020 by an independent engineer. The
assessment identified significant safety issues with the post and chain system used in the
final approach of the summit track. Given the findings, NPWS removed the climbing chain in
November 2020.
As you may know, the upper reach of Wollumbin was declared an Aboriginal Place in 2014
in recognition of its special significance to Aboriginal people. This affords the place special
protections. I understand the local Aboriginal community has long expressed a view that
access to the summit should be closed due to its significance.
An Aboriginal Place Management Plan is being finalised which formally sets out the
Aboriginal community’s advice on access to the summit and documents Wollumbin’s
significant Aboriginal cultural heritage values.
The Plan has been prepared in consultation with the Aboriginal community including the
Wollumbin Consultative Group, which represents a range of Aboriginal groups and families
with connection to Wollumbin and has been providing advice to NPWS since 2000. The
decision to extend the closure to the end of November 2021 will enable further consultation
with the Aboriginal community and other stakeholders about the future of the track.
While this consultation process takes place, the NSW Government is investing in a range of
visitor infrastructure across the region as part of the largest capital investment program ever
undertaken in our national parks.
By way of example, the $7.35 million Tweed Byron Hinterland Trails project will provide a
four-day walk from Unicorn Falls to Minyon Falls with new and upgraded visitor facilities at
key points along the trail. Initial works at the Minyon Falls visitor precinct commenced in
December 2020.
If you have any further questions about this matter, please contact Mr Russell Madeley,
Director North Coast, NPWS on 6652 0923 or at russell.madeley@environment.nsw.gov.au.
Thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to the Government’s attention.
Yours sincerely
26 July 2021
Matt Kean MP
Minister for Energy and Environment

This is the most Machiavellian public consultation process I have ever seen. The people who want to climb mount warning are specifically not being consulted. They do not count as a key stakeholder. I bet you the "traditional owners" are not being consulted in a meaningful way either. Rather the government will be picking and choosing spokespeople for them, and offering them a comfortable job managing their new asset when it is all done.

You may have missed the bit that says "further consultation with the Aboriginal community and other stakeholders about the future of the track", FD.

Have you considered lobbying Matt Keen on behalf of stakeholders who would like the opportunity to climb Mt Warning if they could be bothered spending days driving through all that boring scenery?

Perhaps you could form an alliance with the Shooters and Fishers.

Thoughts?

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freediver

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #46 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:47pm

Quote:

You may have missed the bit that says "further consultation with the Aboriginal community and other stakeholders about the future of the track", FD.

That does not include the following people:

people who want to climb the mountain

people who want to maintain the right to climb the mountain

people who object to the government endorsing one group's religious beliefs and imposing them on everyone else

people who object to the government imposing racist, sexist policies

the actual aboriginal community - only people appointed by the government to "represent" the aboriginal community are being consulted

Hence, Machiavellian. They even tell you they are doing it.

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chimera

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #47 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:10pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:07pm:

Gordon, if the Aboriginals built a cenotaph, to which they are entitled to commemorate their war dead, you WOULDN'T climb on it.

.

If a person is buried without any marker stone but a sign says the grave is between these 2 trees, would you walk on the dead person?

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Aussie

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #48 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:39pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:22am:

It looks like the petition to keep MT. warnings climbing trail open has been a wasted effort.

Note the last paragraph where the Minister side steps the issue with waffle about govt. expenditure on walking trail alternatives.

Notch up Ayres Rock2 Roll Eyes

Quote:

Ms Helen Minnican
Clerk of the Legislative Assembly
Parliament House
Macquarie Street
SYDNEY NSW 2000
Dear Ms Minnican
Thank you for your email about an ePetition with more than 500 signatures requesting
reopening the Wollumbin (Mount Warning) summit track in Wollumbin National Park.
Wollumbin National Park was closed by the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) in
March 2020 due to COVID-19 health restrictions. The closure has been extended until the
end of November 2021 due to public safety risks associated with the summit walking track
and permit further consultation with the Aboriginal community and other key stakeholders
about the future management of the site.
I am advised the decision to extend the closure due to public safety risks was based on a
structural assessment carried out in August 2020 by an independent engineer. The
assessment identified significant safety issues with the post and chain system used in the
final approach of the summit track. Given the findings, NPWS removed the climbing chain in
November 2020.
As you may know, the upper reach of Wollumbin was declared an Aboriginal Place in 2014
in recognition of its special significance to Aboriginal people. This affords the place special
protections. I understand the local Aboriginal community has long expressed a view that
access to the summit should be closed due to its significance.
An Aboriginal Place Management Plan is being finalised which formally sets out the
Aboriginal community’s advice on access to the summit and documents Wollumbin’s
significant Aboriginal cultural heritage values.
The Plan has been prepared in consultation with the Aboriginal community including the
Wollumbin Consultative Group, which represents a range of Aboriginal groups and families
with connection to Wollumbin and has been providing advice to NPWS since 2000. The
decision to extend the closure to the end of November 2021 will enable further consultation
with the Aboriginal community and other stakeholders about the future of the track.
While this consultation process takes place, the NSW Government is investing in a range of
visitor infrastructure across the region as part of the largest capital investment program ever
undertaken in our national parks.
By way of example, the $7.35 million Tweed Byron Hinterland Trails project will provide a
four-day walk from Unicorn Falls to Minyon Falls with new and upgraded visitor facilities at
key points along the trail. Initial works at the Minyon Falls visitor precinct commenced in
December 2020.
If you have any further questions about this matter, please contact Mr Russell Madeley,
Director North Coast, NPWS on 6652 0923 or at russell.madeley@environment.nsw.gov.au.
Thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to the Government’s attention.
Yours sincerely
26 July 2021
Matt Kean MP
Minister for Energy and Environment

I have climbed that bastard twice and I never felt safe on that chain especially over the last 15-20 metres to the top. Then, when you get there...woop de doo....nah.

Happy to see it closed for safety reasons.

And as a devil's advocate comment.... I wonder if freediver et al wants rights to enter the dressing rooms of females?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #49 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:39pm

chimera wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:10pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:07pm:

Gordon, if the Aboriginals built a cenotaph, to which they are entitled to commemorate their war dead, you WOULDN'T climb on it.

.

If a person is buried without any marker stone but a sign says the grave is between these 2 trees, would you walk on the dead person?

No - honour the dead and work for the living. It's pretty universal.

So now there are all these marked Aboriginal graves on Mt Warning? Why? Is this some kind of Out Of Africa thing where they buried Dennis on a hill looking over a valley and two lions came and sat with him? A Tomb With A View?

They carried their dead all the way up there - men only of course - to bury them?

Which of the walking paths on Mt Warning have Aboriginal grave sites under them, dare one ask?? If so, why did it take so farken long to identify them?

When did these grave markers, if any, appear? And on what basis?

Your sentiments are fine - your reasoning.. well...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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chimera

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #50 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:48pm

So a place can be off-limits to you without being built on. It can be an empty place without a grave, such as the Cenotaph.
So, it can be a mountain top without being built on and without graves.

The Cenotaph could possibly have been a square of bare earth, the symbol of the dead sons of Australia's soil. A "Cenotaph" sign would still ensure it was respected if that was people's idea.

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« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:56pm by chimera »

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #51 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:49pm

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:47pm:

Quote:

You may have missed the bit that says "further consultation with the Aboriginal community and other stakeholders about the future of the track", FD.

That does not include the following people:

people who want to climb the mountain

people who want to maintain the right to climb the mountain

people who object to the government endorsing one group's religious beliefs and imposing them on everyone else

people who object to the government imposing racist, sexist policies

the actual aboriginal community - only people appointed by the government to "represent" the aboriginal community are being consulted

Hence, Machiavellian. They even tell you they are doing it.

I see. You mean One Nation again, don't you?

It's okay, FD. We have Mark Latham. If you email his office, I'm sure he'll reply.

Democracy, innit. That's what separates us from the Chows, no?

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freediver

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #52 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 9:02pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:39pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:22am:

It looks like the petition to keep MT. warnings climbing trail open has been a wasted effort.

Note the last paragraph where the Minister side steps the issue with waffle about govt. expenditure on walking trail alternatives.

Notch up Ayres Rock2 Roll Eyes

Quote:

Ms Helen Minnican
Clerk of the Legislative Assembly
Parliament House
Macquarie Street
SYDNEY NSW 2000
Dear Ms Minnican
Thank you for your email about an ePetition with more than 500 signatures requesting
reopening the Wollumbin (Mount Warning) summit track in Wollumbin National Park.
Wollumbin National Park was closed by the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) in
March 2020 due to COVID-19 health restrictions. The closure has been extended until the
end of November 2021 due to public safety risks associated with the summit walking track
and permit further consultation with the Aboriginal community and other key stakeholders
about the future management of the site.
I am advised the decision to extend the closure due to public safety risks was based on a
structural assessment carried out in August 2020 by an independent engineer. The
assessment identified significant safety issues with the post and chain system used in the
final approach of the summit track. Given the findings, NPWS removed the climbing chain in
November 2020.
As you may know, the upper reach of Wollumbin was declared an Aboriginal Place in 2014
in recognition of its special significance to Aboriginal people. This affords the place special
protections. I understand the local Aboriginal community has long expressed a view that
access to the summit should be closed due to its significance.
An Aboriginal Place Management Plan is being finalised which formally sets out the
Aboriginal community’s advice on access to the summit and documents Wollumbin’s
significant Aboriginal cultural heritage values.
The Plan has been prepared in consultation with the Aboriginal community including the
Wollumbin Consultative Group, which represents a range of Aboriginal groups and families
with connection to Wollumbin and has been providing advice to NPWS since 2000. The
decision to extend the closure to the end of November 2021 will enable further consultation
with the Aboriginal community and other stakeholders about the future of the track.
While this consultation process takes place, the NSW Government is investing in a range of
visitor infrastructure across the region as part of the largest capital investment program ever
undertaken in our national parks.
By way of example, the $7.35 million Tweed Byron Hinterland Trails project will provide a
four-day walk from Unicorn Falls to Minyon Falls with new and upgraded visitor facilities at
key points along the trail. Initial works at the Minyon Falls visitor precinct commenced in
December 2020.
If you have any further questions about this matter, please contact Mr Russell Madeley,
Director North Coast, NPWS on 6652 0923 or at russell.madeley@environment.nsw.gov.au.
Thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to the Government’s attention.
Yours sincerely
26 July 2021
Matt Kean MP
Minister for Energy and Environment

I have climbed that bastard twice and I never felt safe on that chain especially over the last 15-20 metres to the top. Then, when you get there...woop de doo....nah.

Happy to see it closed for safety reasons.

And as a devil's advocate comment.... I wonder if freediver et al wants rights to enter the dressing rooms of females?

That's called a moron's advocate Aussie. You climbed it twice, but are now happy to deny everyone else the right to climb. Typical.

Safety is the excuse, not the reason.

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Gordon

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #53 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 9:09pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:39pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:22am:

It looks like the petition to keep MT. warnings climbing trail open has been a wasted effort.

Note the last paragraph where the Minister side steps the issue with waffle about govt. expenditure on walking trail alternatives.

Notch up Ayres Rock2 Roll Eyes

Quote:

Ms Helen Minnican
Clerk of the Legislative Assembly
Parliament House
Macquarie Street
SYDNEY NSW 2000
Dear Ms Minnican
Thank you for your email about an ePetition with more than 500 signatures requesting
reopening the Wollumbin (Mount Warning) summit track in Wollumbin National Park.
Wollumbin National Park was closed by the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) in
March 2020 due to COVID-19 health restrictions. The closure has been extended until the
end of November 2021 due to public safety risks associated with the summit walking track
and permit further consultation with the Aboriginal community and other key stakeholders
about the future management of the site.
I am advised the decision to extend the closure due to public safety risks was based on a
structural assessment carried out in August 2020 by an independent engineer. The
assessment identified significant safety issues with the post and chain system used in the
final approach of the summit track. Given the findings, NPWS removed the climbing chain in
November 2020.
As you may know, the upper reach of Wollumbin was declared an Aboriginal Place in 2014
in recognition of its special significance to Aboriginal people. This affords the place special
protections. I understand the local Aboriginal community has long expressed a view that
access to the summit should be closed due to its significance.
An Aboriginal Place Management Plan is being finalised which formally sets out the
Aboriginal community’s advice on access to the summit and documents Wollumbin’s
significant Aboriginal cultural heritage values.
The Plan has been prepared in consultation with the Aboriginal community including the
Wollumbin Consultative Group, which represents a range of Aboriginal groups and families
with connection to Wollumbin and has been providing advice to NPWS since 2000. The
decision to extend the closure to the end of November 2021 will enable further consultation
with the Aboriginal community and other stakeholders about the future of the track.
While this consultation process takes place, the NSW Government is investing in a range of
visitor infrastructure across the region as part of the largest capital investment program ever
undertaken in our national parks.
By way of example, the $7.35 million Tweed Byron Hinterland Trails project will provide a
four-day walk from Unicorn Falls to Minyon Falls with new and upgraded visitor facilities at
key points along the trail. Initial works at the Minyon Falls visitor precinct commenced in
December 2020.
If you have any further questions about this matter, please contact Mr Russell Madeley,
Director North Coast, NPWS on 6652 0923 or at russell.madeley@environment.nsw.gov.au.
Thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to the Government’s attention.
Yours sincerely
26 July 2021
Matt Kean MP
Minister for Energy and Environment

I have climbed that bastard twice and I never felt safe on that chain especially over the last 15-20 metres to the top. Then, when you get there...woop de doo....nah.

Happy to see it closed for safety reasons.

And as a devil's advocate comment.... I wonder if freediver et al wants rights to enter the dressing rooms of females?

I danced up the last bit. Probably wouldn't now, but it would hardly slow me down.
I love the view.

I reckon golf is the most boring way to spoil a good walk. If I had my way, I'd turn every last golf course into a moto-x track. Different strokes, Aussie?

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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Mt Warning to stay closed. Reply #54 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 9:16pm *This mob need to be told to go and get well forked.*
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Mattyfisk

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #55 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 9:39pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:39pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:22am:

It looks like the petition to keep MT. warnings climbing trail open has been a wasted effort.

Note the last paragraph where the Minister side steps the issue with waffle about govt. expenditure on walking trail alternatives.

Notch up Ayres Rock2 Roll Eyes

Quote:

Ms Helen Minnican
Clerk of the Legislative Assembly
Parliament House
Macquarie Street
SYDNEY NSW 2000
Dear Ms Minnican
Thank you for your email about an ePetition with more than 500 signatures requesting
reopening the Wollumbin (Mount Warning) summit track in Wollumbin National Park.
Wollumbin National Park was closed by the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) in
March 2020 due to COVID-19 health restrictions. The closure has been extended until the
end of November 2021 due to public safety risks associated with the summit walking track
and permit further consultation with the Aboriginal community and other key stakeholders
about the future management of the site.
I am advised the decision to extend the closure due to public safety risks was based on a
structural assessment carried out in August 2020 by an independent engineer. The
assessment identified significant safety issues with the post and chain system used in the
final approach of the summit track. Given the findings, NPWS removed the climbing chain in
November 2020.
As you may know, the upper reach of Wollumbin was declared an Aboriginal Place in 2014
in recognition of its special significance to Aboriginal people. This affords the place special
protections. I understand the local Aboriginal community has long expressed a view that
access to the summit should be closed due to its significance.
An Aboriginal Place Management Plan is being finalised which formally sets out the
Aboriginal community’s advice on access to the summit and documents Wollumbin’s
significant Aboriginal cultural heritage values.
The Plan has been prepared in consultation with the Aboriginal community including the
Wollumbin Consultative Group, which represents a range of Aboriginal groups and families
with connection to Wollumbin and has been providing advice to NPWS since 2000. The
decision to extend the closure to the end of November 2021 will enable further consultation
with the Aboriginal community and other stakeholders about the future of the track.
While this consultation process takes place, the NSW Government is investing in a range of
visitor infrastructure across the region as part of the largest capital investment program ever
undertaken in our national parks.
By way of example, the $7.35 million Tweed Byron Hinterland Trails project will provide a
four-day walk from Unicorn Falls to Minyon Falls with new and upgraded visitor facilities at
key points along the trail. Initial works at the Minyon Falls visitor precinct commenced in
December 2020.
If you have any further questions about this matter, please contact Mr Russell Madeley,
Director North Coast, NPWS on 6652 0923 or at russell.madeley@environment.nsw.gov.au.
Thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to the Government’s attention.
Yours sincerely
26 July 2021
Matt Kean MP
Minister for Energy and Environment

I have climbed that bastard twice and I never felt safe on that chain especially over the last 15-20 metres to the top. Then, when you get there...woop de doo....nah.

Happy to see it closed for safety reasons.

And as a devil's advocate comment.... I wonder if freediver et al wants rights to enter the dressing rooms of females?

I see. So you've climbed this so-called Abbo sacred site. Twice.

Effende hasnt climbed it at all, but he's more concerned about the stakeholders. After all, nobody asked him. FD's not tinted. Typical - so unfair.

So I'm curious. Do you, yourself, feel sufficiently consulted?

Effende's wondering if he should bother spending three days driving through all that boring scenery.

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« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2021 at 9:49pm by Mattyfisk »

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #56 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 9:57pm

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 9:02pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:39pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 7:22am:

It looks like the petition to keep MT. warnings climbing trail open has been a wasted effort.

Note the last paragraph where the Minister side steps the issue with waffle about govt. expenditure on walking trail alternatives.

Notch up Ayres Rock2 Roll Eyes

Quote:

Ms Helen Minnican
Clerk of the Legislative Assembly
Parliament House
Macquarie Street
SYDNEY NSW 2000
Dear Ms Minnican
Thank you for your email about an ePetition with more than 500 signatures requesting
reopening the Wollumbin (Mount Warning) summit track in Wollumbin National Park.
Wollumbin National Park was closed by the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) in
March 2020 due to COVID-19 health restrictions. The closure has been extended until the
end of November 2021 due to public safety risks associated with the summit walking track
and permit further consultation with the Aboriginal community and other key stakeholders
about the future management of the site.
I am advised the decision to extend the closure due to public safety risks was based on a
structural assessment carried out in August 2020 by an independent engineer. The
assessment identified significant safety issues with the post and chain system used in the
final approach of the summit track. Given the findings, NPWS removed the climbing chain in
November 2020.
As you may know, the upper reach of Wollumbin was declared an Aboriginal Place in 2014
in recognition of its special significance to Aboriginal people. This affords the place special
protections. I understand the local Aboriginal community has long expressed a view that
access to the summit should be closed due to its significance.
An Aboriginal Place Management Plan is being finalised which formally sets out the
Aboriginal community’s advice on access to the summit and documents Wollumbin’s
significant Aboriginal cultural heritage values.
The Plan has been prepared in consultation with the Aboriginal community including the
Wollumbin Consultative Group, which represents a range of Aboriginal groups and families
with connection to Wollumbin and has been providing advice to NPWS since 2000. The
decision to extend the closure to the end of November 2021 will enable further consultation
with the Aboriginal community and other stakeholders about the future of the track.
While this consultation process takes place, the NSW Government is investing in a range of
visitor infrastructure across the region as part of the largest capital investment program ever
undertaken in our national parks.
By way of example, the $7.35 million Tweed Byron Hinterland Trails project will provide a
four-day walk from Unicorn Falls to Minyon Falls with new and upgraded visitor facilities at
key points along the trail. Initial works at the Minyon Falls visitor precinct commenced in
December 2020.
If you have any further questions about this matter, please contact Mr Russell Madeley,
Director North Coast, NPWS on 6652 0923 or at russell.madeley@environment.nsw.gov.au.
Thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to the Government’s attention.
Yours sincerely
26 July 2021
Matt Kean MP
Minister for Energy and Environment

I have climbed that bastard twice and I never felt safe on that chain especially over the last 15-20 metres to the top. Then, when you get there...woop de doo....nah.

Happy to see it closed for safety reasons.

And as a devil's advocate comment.... I wonder if freediver et al wants rights to enter the dressing rooms of females?

That's called a moron's advocate Aussie. You climbed it twice, but are now happy to deny everyone else the right to climb. Typical.

Safety is the excuse, not the reason.

Chinese-backed developers have been denied the right to put a casino and a chair lift in.

Are they being denied their rights too?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #57 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 10:04pm

chimera wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:48pm:

So a place can be off-limits to you without being built on. It can be an empty place without a grave, such as the Cenotaph.
So, it can be a mountain top without being built on and without graves.

The Cenotaph could possibly have been a square of bare earth, the symbol of the dead sons of Australia's soil. A "Cenotaph" sign would still ensure it was respected if that was people's idea.

That's right - it was BUILT there for that purpose. Mt Warning/Ayers Rock are natural formations to be enjoyed by all.

Huge difference. What spiritual thing could Aborigines get from climbing it that others do not? It's a spiritual thing for everyone EQUALLY, and even some of the local Aborigines say so.

How can Whartey get in touch with his Inner Boong and His Spirituality if he cannot experience the spirits?

I thought they were a peaceful, welcoming group... must have been wrong, eh?

Address the questions I raised - then we can talk... where are these marked grave sites under paths on Mt Warning?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #58 - Jul 28^th, 2021 at 11:26pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 10:04pm:

chimera wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 8:48pm:

So a place can be off-limits to you without being built on. It can be an empty place without a grave, such as the Cenotaph.
So, it can be a mountain top without being built on and without graves.

The Cenotaph could possibly have been a square of bare earth, the symbol of the dead sons of Australia's soil. A "Cenotaph" sign would still ensure it was respected if that was people's idea.

That's right - it was BUILT there for that purpose. Mt Warning/Ayers Rock are natural formations to be enjoyed by all.

Huge difference. What spiritual thing could Aborigines get from climbing it that others do not? It's a spiritual thing for everyone EQUALLY, and even some of the local Aborigines say so.

How can Whartey get in touch with his Inner Boong and His Spirituality if he cannot experience the spirits?

I thought they were a peaceful, welcoming group... must have been wrong, eh?

Address the questions I raised - then we can talk... where are these marked grave sites under paths on Mt Warning?

Would you like to climb Mt Warning to get in touch with your inner Boong, dear?

I'm curious.

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chimera

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Re: Mt Warning to stay closed.
Reply #59 - Jul 29^th, 2021 at 3:58am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 28^th, 2021 at 10:04pm:

That's right - it was BUILT there for that purpose.

A square of bare earth would not be "built" and the Cenotaph has no grave. Wollumbin has no graves in the Aboriginal claim. You respect a bare earth burial and the empty Cenotaph. The stones there are not sacred but the idea for dead people is. The majority objected to Vietnam in the end but still accept exclusion from walking on the empty Cenotaph, on public land.

My ancestor built a house in bush before it became Kuringai National Park and he was given the private right to keep it and exclude trespassers, in public land. National Parks are expanded into previous farms and any graves continue to exist. So you would not walk on those in public land, including bare earth graves.

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« Last Edit: Jul 29^th, 2021 at 4:19am by chimera »

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