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Modelling climate (Read 2074 times)
Jovial Monk
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Modelling climate
May 12th, 2021 at 7:14am
 
I have in other threads posted about scientists trying to understand climate. Modelling is a way of advancing theoretical knowledge of climate, even of regional weather.

Quote:
Climate is governed by the general circulation of the atmosphere — the global pattern of air movements, with its semi-tropical trade winds, its air masses rising in the tropics to descend farther north, its cyclonic storms that carry energy and moisture through middle latitudes, and so forth. Many meteorologists suspected that shifts in this pattern were a main cause of climate change. They could only guess about such shifts, for the general circulation was poorly mapped before the 1940s (even the jet streams remained to be discovered). The Second World War and its aftermath brought a phenomenal increase in observations from ground level up to the stratosphere, which finally revealed all the main features. Yet up to the 1960s, the general circulation was still only crudely known, and this knowledge was strictly observational.

From the 19th century forward, many scientists had attempted to explain the general pattern by applying the laws of the physics of gases to a heated, rotating planet. All their ingenious efforts failed to derive a realistic mathematical solution. . . .

And with the general global circulation not explained, attempts to explain climate change in terms of shifts of the pattern were less science than story-telling.      
Full discussion in
<=Simple models




=>Climatologists

The solution would come by taking the problem from the other end. Instead of starting with grand equations for the planet as a whole, one might seek to find how the circulation pattern was built up from the local weather at thousands of points. But the physics of local weather was also a formidable problem.


Basically, it took longer to work out the equations than the weather events they tried to predict.

Quote:
So Richardson attempted to compute how the weather over Western Europe had developed during a single eight-hour period, starting with the data for a day when scientists had coordinated balloon-launchings to measure the atmosphere simultaneously at various levels. The effort cost him six weeks of pencil-work Perhaps never has such a large and significant set of calculations been carried out under more arduous conditions: a convinced pacifist, Richardson had volunteered to serve as an ambulance-driver on the Western Front. He did his arithmetic as a relief from the surroundings of battle chaos and dreadful wounds.      
The work ended in complete failure. At the center of Richardson's simulacrum of Europe, the computed barometric pressure climbed far above anything ever observed in the real world. "Perhaps some day in the dim future it will be possible to advance the calculations faster than the weather advances," he wrote wistfully. "But that is a dream." Taking the warning to heart, meteorologists gave up any hope of numerical modeling. . . .

That threw people back on Richardson's program of numerical computation. What had been hopeless with pencil and paper might possibly be made to work with the new digital computers. A handful of extraordinary machines, feverishly developed during the Second World War to break enemy codes and to calculate atomic bomb explosions, were leaping ahead in power as the Cold War demanded ever more calculations. In the lead, energetically devising ways to simulate nuclear weapons explosions, was the Princeton mathematician John von Neumann. Von Neumann saw parallels between his explosion simulations and weather prediction (both are problems of non-linear fluid dynamics). In 1946, soon after his pioneering computer ENIAC became operational, he began to advocate using computers for numerical weather prediction.(7)      



<=External input

This was a subject of keen interest to everyone, but particularly to the military services, who well knew how battles could turn on the weather. Von Neumann, as a committed foe of Communism and a key member of the American national security establishment, was also concerned about the prospect of "climatological warfare." It seemed likely that the U.S. or the Soviet Union could learn to manipulate weather so as to harm their enemies.      

<=Government


<=Climate mod
Under grants from the Weather Bureau, the Navy, and the Air Force, von Neumann assembled a small group of theoretical meteorologists at Princeton's Institute for Advanced Study. (Initially the group was at the Army's Aberdeen Proving Grounds, and later it also got support from the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission.) If regional weather prediction proved feasible, the group planned to move on to the extremely ambitious problem of modeling the entire global atmosphere. Von Neumann invited Jule Charney, an energetic and visionary meteorologist, to head the new Meteorology Group. Charney came from Carl-Gustaf Rossby's pioneering meteorology department at the University of Chicago, where the study of weather maps and fluids had developed a toolkit of sophisticated mathematical techniques and an intuitive grasp of basic weather processes.


https://history.aip.org/climate/GCM.htm#L_0164

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lee
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #1 - May 12th, 2021 at 12:21pm
 
John Von Neumann  -

"With four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk."

And they still use more than 5 parameters. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #2 - May 12th, 2021 at 12:26pm
 
And any relevance to what I posted?

FD is right—you have verbal diarrhea.
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lee
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #3 - May 12th, 2021 at 12:44pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 12th, 2021 at 12:26pm:
And any relevance to what I posted?



Poor petal. Doesn't even acknowledge his own posts. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on May 12th, 2021 at 7:14am:
In the lead, energetically devising ways to simulate nuclear weapons explosions, was the Princeton mathematician John von Neumann.



Jovial Monk wrote on May 12th, 2021 at 7:14am:
Under grants from the Weather Bureau, the Navy, and the Air Force, von Neumann assembled a small group of theoretical meteorologists at Princeton's Institute for Advanced Study.



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Jovial Monk
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #4 - May 12th, 2021 at 1:06pm
 
Still no relevance.
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lee
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #5 - May 12th, 2021 at 2:32pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 12th, 2021 at 1:06pm:
Still no relevance.


So having multiple parameters in a climate model is of no relevance; despite the multiple outputs that rely on those parameters? You are getting loopier by the day. Roll Eyes
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #6 - May 12th, 2021 at 4:41pm
 
I have not mentioned a model or parameters.
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lee
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #7 - May 12th, 2021 at 5:23pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 12th, 2021 at 4:41pm:
I have not mentioned a model or parameters.



Oh dear. "Re: Modelling climate"

You want to try again? Roll Eyes
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #8 - May 12th, 2021 at 6:23pm
 
Have not mentioned a specific model yet.

You have diarrhoea of the mouth. That is because of your desperation to close down any mention of CO2, AGW etc.
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lee
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #9 - May 12th, 2021 at 6:40pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 12th, 2021 at 6:23pm:
Have not mentioned a specific model yet.



Even Manabe and Wetherald ( a simple model) had four parameters. So they could create only an elephant. Wink

Edit: Charney had 5.
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« Last Edit: May 12th, 2021 at 6:53pm by lee »  
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #10 - May 13th, 2021 at 7:30am
 
Quote:
To know when you were getting close to a realistic model, you had to compare your results with the actual atmosphere. To do that you would need an unprecedented number of measurements of temperature, moisture, wind speed, and so forth for a large region — indeed for the whole planet, if you wanted to check a global model. During the war and after, networks had been established to send up thousands of balloons that radioed back measurements of the upper air. This was largely to meet military needs, and later to help civilian aviation. For the first time the atmosphere was seen not as a single layer, as represented by a surface map, but in its full three dimensions. By the 1950s, the weather over continental areas, up to the lower stratosphere, was being mapped well enough for comparison with results from rudimentary models.(10)      

The first serious weather simulation that Charney's team completed was two-dimensional. They ran it on the ENIAC in 1950. Their model, like Richardson's, divided the atmosphere into a grid of cells; it covered North America with 270 points about 700 km apart. Starting with real weather data for a particular day, the computer solved all the equations for how the air should respond to the differences in conditions between each pair of adjacent cells. Taking the outcome as a new set of weather data, it stepped forward in time (using a step of three hours) and computed all the cells again. The authors remarked that between each run it took them so long to print and sort punched cards that "the calculation time for a 24-hour forecast was about 24 hours, that is, we were just able to keep pace with the weather." The resulting forecasts were far from perfect, but they turned up enough features of what the weather had actually done on the chosen day to justify pushing forward.(11)


The early computers of course used vacuum tubes:
Quote:
1) First Generation (1940-1956): The First Generation of Computer was built using Vacuum Tube and Valves as major Component. The Valve and Vacuum tubes are electron tubes, which were invented in 1906 by french man lee-de-forest.9 Dec 2012

GENERATION OF COMPUTER - Class Materials - Weeblyhttp://rockcitizen.weebly.com › generation-of-computer


The valves tended to burn out {Oops!}

Despite this the models showed they could become useful.

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lee
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #11 - May 13th, 2021 at 12:22pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 13th, 2021 at 7:30am:
The valves tended to burn out {Oops!}



Yes they do. After years of service. But unlike Transistors/op amps they still have higher fidelity.

Also computers have this problem of rounding. Earlier computers had limited ability and the rounding was generally 1 or 2 decimal place. More modern computers have a much finer resolution; but that causes its own problems. ie HadCRUt say they can tell global temperature now to 3 decimal places. Even as far back as 1850 -

"1850   -0.373 "

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcrut4/data/current/time_series/HadCRUT.4....

Of course thermometers weren't that accurate back then and not even now. Wink

"The thermometer is read to the nearest 0.1 degree Celsius."

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/cdo/about/airtemp-measure.shtml
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #12 - May 13th, 2021 at 3:10pm
 
Another turd from lee.
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #13 - May 13th, 2021 at 4:25pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 13th, 2021 at 3:10pm:
Another turd from lee.



Poor petal. Can't refute so goes full on denigration. You were supposed to be a scientist, of sorts. Wink
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Modelling climate
Reply #14 - May 13th, 2021 at 4:51pm
 
You post the same irrelevant sh!t all the damn time. B O R I N G !
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