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Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China? (Read 16073 times)
Gnads
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #120 - May 10th, 2021 at 11:06am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:08pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 4:50pm:
It is realistic revisionism.  There have been numerous works since which have shown that Australia panicked and it shows.

What was believed and what was realistic were two separate things.  You can believe what you like but a realistic viewpoint is that Australia was never in danger.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Yes... I think that's revisionism by definition... It's looking back and reassessing the issue... Reassessments are made by people who live in their times (obviously), such that what happened last year could be considered realistic revisionism.

80 years ago there was credible belief, fear and panic about a Japanese invasion of northern Australia... To look back nearly 4 generations and conclude that they shouldn't have panicked because it never happened is anachronistic revisionism by (ab)using the distance of time, the benefit of modern experience / sensibility and the benefit of hindsight.

Even if you, yourself, could be transported back in time to 1942, knowing what you know now, how many people would believe you?


Japan lacked the resources to be a credible threat to Australia.  The most they could have achieved would be an invasion and capture of Darwin.  Most of Australia's population and industry was in the SE corner of the continent.  It was never in danger of attack.  The Japanese lacked the ability and the means to mount one.   They could not force a decision on the Australian Government.   The US was too concerned with it's own affairs in the Pacific.   It did not fear an attack on Australia and neither did the British.   QED.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Cairns, Townsville? The Brisbane Line?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #121 - May 10th, 2021 at 11:36am
 
Back to the present: Today Hugh White (on the ABC) said he doesn't think China is interested in expansionism (or colonialism). He says "we will have to learn to live with China".

(Note: both Taiwan and the mainland consider they are "China".)

Hugh is correct. And Kissinger has said it's not possible to go to war with China; in an age of MAD..... he is also correct.

Much better to stop being paranoid - or actually evil - and engage in a friendly competition with China to see which system is the most productive and most capable of raising living standards for ALL its citizens. I have my views; the results should be clearer in a decade, but in the meantime talk of war is the ultimate absurdity, not to mention evil, when the large majority the mainlanders themselves are increasingly satisfied with their own government, compared with the 50/50 hyper-partisanship of the Western democracies.

Speaking of paranoid: eg the West's banning of China's first ever world-leading global company, Huawei, on trumped charges of "security" when the CIA is the greatest offender of all... (even reading Merkel's private correspondence...
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« Last Edit: May 10th, 2021 at 11:47am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #122 - May 10th, 2021 at 11:40am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2021 at 11:36am:
the large majority the mainlanders themselves are increasingly satisfied with their own government, x

And you know this because....?

No government can know whether they have a mandate to govern without free elections.

The whole point to not having free elections is to ensure that mandate is not revealed.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #123 - May 10th, 2021 at 12:00pm
 
NorthOfNorth:

re the "mandate to govern": problem no 1: our democracies are in effect plutocracies,  because money buys elections.

Problem no 2. the Western neoliberal monetarist economic system pits workers against capital which is why democracies increasingly resemble hyper-partisan rabbles.

Therefore I suggest stop claiming a moral high ground  via a "mandate" in support of 'western values', and instead allow the Chinese to deal with their own governance which is raising living standards at a faster rate than any nation in
history, much to the pride of the mainlanders themselves. 

btw, google Harvard Research on satisfaction with government in China, >90%
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« Last Edit: May 10th, 2021 at 12:07pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #124 - May 10th, 2021 at 12:05pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2021 at 12:00pm:
NorthOfNorth:

re the "mandate to govern": problem no 1: our democracies are in effect plutocracies,  because money buys elections.

Problem no 2. the Western neoliberal monetarist economic system pits workers against capital which is why democracies increasingly resemble hyper-partisan rabbles.

Therefore I suggest stop claiming a moral high ground  via a "mandate" in support of 'western values', and instead allow the Chinese to deal with their own governance which is raising living standards at a faster rate than any nation in history, much to the pride of the mainlanders themselves. 

Don't try to be smarter than you are.

Your answer to the problem is don't hold free elections... Then just make it up as you go along?

You don't know whether the CSNSP has any mandate to govern and neither does the CSNSP.

Gorbachev discovered to his shock that granting people the freedom to choose who governs them can be fatal to a party's existence or the right to govern.
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #125 - May 10th, 2021 at 12:08pm
 
Indeed - both Taiwan and the mainland consider they are China - they just don't want to live under the other's political system.

So the mainland had best surrender now before shedding any blood, hold free elections, and work on representation for all equally without coercion.
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #126 - May 10th, 2021 at 12:19pm
 
NorthOfNorth:

The question is: what is the best form of government to achieve maximum prosperity for all.

I have news for you: "socialism with Chinese characteristics" may well be the better system.

The results should be clearer within a decade. Meantime stop[ bleating about "mandates", what the Chinese do in their own country is none of your business.

Interestingly, Trump has forced China to concentrate on developing their own AI, IT and space technologies, rather than investment in junk consumerism a la the West (ie mind-numbing junk advertising and waste of resources producing consumer junk...)

Like I said, time for a friendly competition with China, put your money ...and 'western values' ideology... where your mouth is. 

As for war, forget it.

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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #127 - May 10th, 2021 at 12:29pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2021 at 12:19pm:
NorthOfNorth:

The question is: what is the best form of government to achieve maximum prosperity for all.

I have news for you: "socialism with Chinese characteristics" may well be the better system.

The results should be clearer within a decade. Meantime stop[ bleating about "mandates", what the Chinese do in their own country is none of your business.

Interestingly, Trump has forced China to concentrate on developing their own AI, IT and space technologies, rather than investment in junk consumerism a la the West (ie mind-numbing junk advertising and waste of resources producing consumer junk...)

Like I said, time for a friendly competition with China, put your money ...and 'western values' ideology... where your mouth is. 

As for war, forget it.


Do you live in China? I'm guessing not.

'Socialism with Chinese characteristics'? The regime in China is an amalgam of Stalinism and National Socialism 'with Chinese characteristics'.

Friendly competition? Would that mean the end of CSNSP theft of technology from western countries?

How about arbitrary arrest, torture, disappearance and murder of those who 'cause arguments, disturb the social order or speak against the party'?
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #128 - May 10th, 2021 at 1:31pm
 
NorthOfNorth

Socialism with Chinese characteristics' is a clever combination of private sector free enterprise in "invisible hand" markets overseen by public sector subsidization of R&D on behalf of national productivity enhancement.

Nothing like the soviet 'command economy' model.

IP "theft" is long past, you can thank Trump for the fact China is now developing its own technological prowess. 

As for running foul of the CCP: if you join the majority who are pleased to participate in the unparalleled increase in living standards for everyone, promised and implemented by the Party, instead of pushing obsolete "me first" policies,  you will be as free as anyone in a hyper-partisan western democratic rabble.

And in Xinjiang, China of course has to deal with backward Islamist terrorists ...which is why the mainlanders are outraged by false Western propaganda re genocide; such false claims have alienated mainland Chinese even more from  Western hypocrites who bombed the Taliban for 20 years ( and failed), and who tolerate systemic disadvantage in their own nations eg high black incarceration and poverty  rates in the US and Australia.
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #129 - May 10th, 2021 at 1:38pm
 
Gnads wrote on May 10th, 2021 at 11:06am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:08pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 4:50pm:
It is realistic revisionism.  There have been numerous works since which have shown that Australia panicked and it shows.

What was believed and what was realistic were two separate things.  You can believe what you like but a realistic viewpoint is that Australia was never in danger.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Yes... I think that's revisionism by definition... It's looking back and reassessing the issue... Reassessments are made by people who live in their times (obviously), such that what happened last year could be considered realistic revisionism.

80 years ago there was credible belief, fear and panic about a Japanese invasion of northern Australia... To look back nearly 4 generations and conclude that they shouldn't have panicked because it never happened is anachronistic revisionism by (ab)using the distance of time, the benefit of modern experience / sensibility and the benefit of hindsight.

Even if you, yourself, could be transported back in time to 1942, knowing what you know now, how many people would believe you?


Japan lacked the resources to be a credible threat to Australia.  The most they could have achieved would be an invasion and capture of Darwin.  Most of Australia's population and industry was in the SE corner of the continent.  It was never in danger of attack.  The Japanese lacked the ability and the means to mount one.   They could not force a decision on the Australian Government.   The US was too concerned with it's own affairs in the Pacific.   It did not fear an attack on Australia and neither did the British.   QED.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Cairns, Townsville? The Brisbane Line?


What about them?  The Brisbane Line never existed except in Eddie Ward's imagination.  Cairns and Townsville are Australian towns.  Any other questions?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #130 - May 10th, 2021 at 3:35pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2021 at 1:31pm:
NorthOfNorth

Socialism with Chinese characteristics' is a clever combination of private sector free enterprise in "invisible hand" markets overseen by public sector subsidization of R&D on behalf of national productivity enhancement.

Nothing like the soviet 'command economy' model.

IP "theft" is long past, you can thank Trump for the fact China is now developing its own technological prowess. 

As for running foul of the CCP: if you join the majority who are pleased to participate in the unparalleled increase in living standards for everyone, promised and implemented by the Party, instead of pushing obsolete "me first" policies,  you will be as free as anyone in a hyper-partisan western democratic rabble.

And in Xinjiang, China of course has to deal with backward Islamist terrorists ...which is why the mainlanders are outraged by false Western propaganda re genocide; such false claims have alienated mainland Chinese even more from  Western hypocrites who bombed the Taliban for 20 years ( and failed), and who tolerate systemic disadvantage in their own nations eg high black incarceration and poverty  rates in the US and Australia.

Ahh, so you are Chinese.

Stalinism is characterised by brutal authoritarianism, the use of terror as a state weapon, hyper-nationalism, expansionism, the widespread use of slave or forced labour, arbitrary arrest, imprisonment, disappearing, state vilification of internal ethnicities and state-sanctioned murder of its own people.

National Socialism is almost identical to Stalinism with the notable exception that state assets could be and was sold to private citizens and private citizens may become rich. However the party had ultimate and complete control over every facet of your conduct and your wealth could be confiscated at any time by the state.

As Mao realised, there is little practical difference between the two, although he took exception to the concept of private property.

Deng Xiao Ping brought the two ideologies together to create an amalgam of Stalinism and National Socialism (something Nixon worried about: that he had unleashed a Frankenstein on the world - which he had).

Mao saw himself as the rightful successor to Lenin's then Stalin's 'throne' (hence the parades which included massive images of Lenin and Stalin making the statement that Mao was the third). He then created his own eponymous ideology (as Lenin and Stalin had done).

Xi Jinping is now attempting to eclipse both Mao and Deng preferring the ideologies of Stalin and National Socialism and has added the euphemism 'with Chinese characteristics' - the lipstick on the pig (as Marist socialism was for Lenin, Stalin and Mao). Being a 'red prince' it's not surprising that he thinks he's justified in ascending to the 'throne' of Mao and, to that end, is throttling all resistance within the CSNSP to his ascendancy.

Xi publishes books on his Stalinist-National Socialist ideals, so he's following Mao in the book-writing aspect. He is every bit a Stalinist-National Socialist in the way that eclipses even Deng Xiaoping.



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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #131 - May 10th, 2021 at 3:47pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2021 at 1:31pm:
Socialism with Chinese characteristics' is a clever combination of private sector free enterprise in "invisible hand" markets overseen by public sector subsidization of R&D on behalf of national productivity enhancement.

And there's nothing invisible about the 'hand' in Chinese capitalism... It is a murderous iron fist.
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #132 - May 10th, 2021 at 4:28pm
 
And yet infinitely preferable to being ruled by the CULT of DEATH.
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Gnads
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #133 - May 10th, 2021 at 7:13pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2021 at 11:36am:
Back to the present: Today Hugh White (on the ABC) said he doesn't think China is interested in expansionism (or colonialism). He says "we will have to learn to live with China".

(Note: both Taiwan and the mainland consider they are "China".)

Hugh is correct. And Kissinger has said it's not possible to go to war with China; in an age of MAD..... he is also correct.

Much better to stop being paranoid - or actually evil - and engage in a friendly competition with China to see which system is the most productive and most capable of raising living standards for ALL its citizens. I have my views; the results should be clearer in a decade, but in the meantime talk of war is the ultimate absurdity, not to mention evil, when the large majority the mainlanders themselves are increasingly satisfied with their own government, compared with the 50/50 hyper-partisanship of the Western democracies.

Speaking of paranoid: eg the West's banning of China's first ever world-leading global company, Huawei, on trumped charges of "security" when the CIA is the greatest offender of all... (even reading Merkel's private correspondence...


You DH .... or should I say shill DH?

China wouldn't have a system if the greedy in the west didn't want to bring China in out of the cold & exploit cheap labour.

Give the CCP an inch & they take a mile......

the old bite the hand that fed you affliction.
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Gnads
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #134 - May 10th, 2021 at 7:17pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 10th, 2021 at 12:00pm:
NorthOfNorth:

re the "mandate to govern": problem no 1: our democracies are in effect plutocracies,  because money buys elections.

Problem no 2. the Western neoliberal monetarist economic system pits workers against capital which is why democracies increasingly resemble hyper-partisan rabbles.

Therefore I suggest stop claiming a moral high ground  via a "mandate" in support of 'western values', and instead allow the Chinese to deal with their own governance which is raising living standards at a faster rate than any nation in
history, much to the pride of the mainlanders themselves. 

btw, google Harvard Research on satisfaction with government in China, >90%


That's fine ... when China stops trying to interfere with the governance of other sovereign nations then you might have a point.

But they aren't & you don't.

Get the pharque out of Tibet & stop causing trouble in Ladakh for starters.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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