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Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China? (Read 16244 times)
NorthOfNorth
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #105 - May 9th, 2021 at 9:24pm
 
Belgarion wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 9:20pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 2:05pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 11:39am:
athos wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 11:30am:
For US Australia is actually the Ukraine in Asia.
The United States uses Australia for biting and and testing China.
However, we must not forget how guinea pigs end up in testing lab.
This is like a tyke yapping at the postman.
25 million vs 1.3 billion people. What do they think you are ? a Superman?

It was the US who defended Australia from the Japanese which ultimately brought WW2 to an end.


*SIGH*  Australia defended Australia.  The yanks had little to do with it. Japan was not in a position to threaten Australia.  They lacked the resources to threaten Australia.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


This.

Japan never had any intention of invading Australia. They knew that it was not possible with the resources they had available and the plan was to isolate Australia from the US to prevent it being used as a base to mount a counter offensive, which was what in fact happened.

The closest they came to an 'invasion' was a quick feasibility study in 1942 after their unexpectedly swift advance through SE Asia.  This reached the same conclusion. That an invasion was not possible.

And, of course, the Japanese informed the Australian government and the Allies of this in 1942 to ensure Australians wouldn't worry about invasion.

And, of course, the bombing of Darwin in 1942 was not an indication at the time to Australians that an invasion was probable.

Another idiotic anachronistic revision.
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rhino
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #106 - May 9th, 2021 at 9:42pm
 
athos wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 10:54am:
Australia is not relevant in Asian affairs. They have zero stake in Taiwan it is none if their business. If they want to make it their business then pay the price. No one in the 5 eyes wants coal or much else you need to move half way around the planet to get. A better option is to mind your own business lead by example be happy and stick to commerce.
Smiley
Hope the Chinese ban some more stuff, more money for us.  Grin
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Brian Ross
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #107 - May 9th, 2021 at 10:14pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:13pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:08pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 4:50pm:
It is realistic revisionism.  There have been numerous works since which have shown that Australia panicked and it shows.

What was believed and what was realistic were two separate things.  You can believe what you like but a realistic viewpoint is that Australia was never in danger.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Yes... I think that's revisionism by definition... It's looking back and reassessing the issue... Reassessments are made by people who live in their times (obviously), such that what happened last year could be considered realistic revisionism.

80 years ago there was credible belief, fear and panic about a Japanese invasion of northern Australia... To look back nearly 4 generations and conclude that they shouldn't have panicked because it never happened is anachronistic revisionism by (ab)using the distance of time, the benefit of modern experience / sensibility and the benefit of hindsight.

Even if you, yourself, could be transported back in time to 1942, knowing what you know now, how many people would believe you?


Japan lacked the resources to be a credible threat to Australia.  The most they could have achieved would be an invasion and capture of Darwin.  Most of Australia's population and industry was in the SE corner of the continent.  It was never in danger of attack.  The Japanese lacked the ability and the means to mount one.   They could not force a decision on the Australian Government.   The US was too concerned with it's own affairs in the Pacific.   It did not fear an attack on Australia and neither did the British.   QED.

Roosevelt and Churchill had a 'Europe first' agreement.

Churchill was quoted as showing his total disinterest in defending Australia... As far as he was concerned it could go the way of Singapore.

Curtin didn't turn to the US for the pizza recipes (and by doing so infuriated Churchill)... He turned towards the US to seek assistance in the event of a Japanese attack on northern Australia. Even the original Japanese strategy was to invade the north to prevent the US from gaining a foothold in the south.

So, not QED... Just ignorant anachronistic revisionism.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  You're welcome to believe what ever fairy tales you like but please don't peddle them as the truth.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #108 - May 9th, 2021 at 10:23pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 10:14pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:13pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:08pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 5:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 4:50pm:
It is realistic revisionism.  There have been numerous works since which have shown that Australia panicked and it shows.

What was believed and what was realistic were two separate things.  You can believe what you like but a realistic viewpoint is that Australia was never in danger.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Yes... I think that's revisionism by definition... It's looking back and reassessing the issue... Reassessments are made by people who live in their times (obviously), such that what happened last year could be considered realistic revisionism.

80 years ago there was credible belief, fear and panic about a Japanese invasion of northern Australia... To look back nearly 4 generations and conclude that they shouldn't have panicked because it never happened is anachronistic revisionism by (ab)using the distance of time, the benefit of modern experience / sensibility and the benefit of hindsight.

Even if you, yourself, could be transported back in time to 1942, knowing what you know now, how many people would believe you?


Japan lacked the resources to be a credible threat to Australia.  The most they could have achieved would be an invasion and capture of Darwin.  Most of Australia's population and industry was in the SE corner of the continent.  It was never in danger of attack.  The Japanese lacked the ability and the means to mount one.   They could not force a decision on the Australian Government.   The US was too concerned with it's own affairs in the Pacific.   It did not fear an attack on Australia and neither did the British.   QED.

Roosevelt and Churchill had a 'Europe first' agreement.

Churchill was quoted as showing his total disinterest in defending Australia... As far as he was concerned it could go the way of Singapore.

Curtin didn't turn to the US for the pizza recipes (and by doing so infuriated Churchill)... He turned towards the US to seek assistance in the event of a Japanese attack on northern Australia. Even the original Japanese strategy was to invade the north to prevent the US from gaining a foothold in the south.

So, not QED... Just ignorant anachronistic revisionism.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  You're welcome to believe what ever fairy tales you like but please don't peddle them as the truth.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Churchill quickly sought a face to face meeting with President Roosevelt in Washington. His purpose was to persuade President Roosevelt to adhere to the secret agreement between the American and British governments to give top priority to defeating Nazi Germany, and not to divert any of America's vast resources to halting Japanese aggression in the Pacific. Churchill appreciated that the "Germany First" war strategy would put Australia, British Malaya, the Philippines, and the rest of South-East Asia at serious risk of Japanese occupation if Japan entered the war on the side of Germany and Italy. However, this prospect does not appear to have greatly concerned Churchill whose top war priorities were the defence of Britain, support for the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany, defending the Suez Canal, and protecting India. As Churchill saw it, the Philippines, Australia, British Malaya, and the Dutch East Indies could be recovered from Japanese occupation after Germany had been defeated.

Churchill insists that America adhere to the "Germany First" strategy despite Pearl Harbor

Roosevelt and Churchill maintain the secrecy of the "Germany First" war strategy

Curtin was becoming convinced during December 1941 that Churchill's assurances of British military support for Australia against Japan were worthless, and he was not prepared to see Australia abandoned by the British to a Japanese invasion. On 26 December 1941, the Australian Prime Minister addressed the nation in a radio address that made it quite clear that Australia was in grave danger from the Japanese and reflected Curtin's disillusionment with Churchill's assurances that Britain would furnish powerful support if Australia was threatened with Japanese invasion. In the course of this famous speech, which was published in the Melbourne Herald newspaper on 27 December 1942, Curtin said,

"Without any inhibitions of any kind, I make it quite clear that Australia looks to America, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with the United Kingdom."


https://www.pacificwar.org.au/battaust/Britain_betrays_Australia.html

Brian, you are a fool and your pretense at being some kind of diffident intellectual is as transparent as gladwrap.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #109 - May 9th, 2021 at 10:29pm
 
...

Run along little boy, run along.  I've proven you wrong on most of your points.  Time for you to realise the real world is rather different to the fantasy land that you believe in.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #110 - May 9th, 2021 at 10:34pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 10:29pm:
Run along little boy, run along.  I've proven you wrong on most of your points.  Time for you to realise the real world is rather different to the fantasy land that you believe in. 

No you haven't... But I now know something of your psychology...

You're a bullshit artist who can't develop an argument... You take a position on something then pepper it with teenage girls' icons.

You proved what a bullshit artist you were with the Castro fiasco thread... A topic on which you claimed to be an expert... Couldn't argue or answer even basic facts about Castro and his rule.
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Valkie
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #111 - May 10th, 2021 at 8:05am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 10:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 10:29pm:
Run along little boy, run along.  I've proven you wrong on most of your points.  Time for you to realise the real world is rather different to the fantasy land that you believe in. 

No you haven't... But I now know something of your psychology...

You're a bullshit artist who can't develop an argument... You take a position on something then pepper it with teenage girls' icons.

You proved what a bullshit artist you were with the Castro fiasco thread... A topic on which you claimed to be an expert... Couldn't argue or answer even basic facts about Castro and his rule.



But, but, but

bwyannnnnnnn is an expert on every subject, been everywhere and done everything.

He is the font of all knowledge

He has 765 doctorates of all discipline and is a religious minister who knows all.

He is a god of a man.

Too bad he is a child pretending to be a man.
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Gnads
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #112 - May 10th, 2021 at 8:55am
 
Ajax wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 9:42am:
Gnads wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 6:18pm:

They/we don't DH....... but you tell me why Australia has to kowtow to Chinese demands?


We don't have to bow to anyone's demands.

But beating the war drums and prominent people saying we have to get ready for war with China it seems un-Australian to me.

Quote:
Australia is the global aggressor.... but do you have a problem seeing the woods for the trees?


Since when has Australia been the aggressor without being physically attacked I would say never its un-Australian for Australians to be acting like yankies.


What's wrong with you?

Australia isn't beating war drums..... the threats have come from China.

Because their style of diplomacy is threats, intimidation & instant cessation of trade
or imposition of embargos/tariffs in what are supposed to be "free trade agreements".

Those sort of agreements aren't supposed to be an "our way or the highway" deal.

Have you been around BBQing with P-Athos?
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« Last Edit: May 10th, 2021 at 9:12am by Gnads »  

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Gnads
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #113 - May 10th, 2021 at 9:03am
 
Ajax wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 9:42am:
Gnads wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 6:18pm:

They/we don't DH....... but you tell me why Australia has to kowtow to Chinese demands?


We don't have to bow to anyone's demands.

But beating the war drums and prominent people saying we have to get ready for war with China it seems un-Australian to me.

Quote:
Australia is the global aggressor.... but do you have a problem seeing the woods for the trees?


Since when has Australia been the aggressor without being physically attacked I would say never its un-Australian for Australians to be acting like yankies.


What you have highlighted is a typo on my part...

it should have read "Australia isn't the global aggressor" .....

you know who the global aggressor is in this discussion & possibly should have questioned what I wrote there solely on the tone of my previous posts.

I will edit that post to reflect the correct spelling & intention. 
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« Last Edit: May 10th, 2021 at 9:13am by Gnads »  

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Gnads
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #114 - May 10th, 2021 at 9:11am
 
Gnads wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 6:18pm:
Ajax wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 2:29pm:
rhino wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 2:25pm:
Ajax wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 2:13pm:
rhino wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 2:04pm:
Ajax wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 1:57pm:
Quote:
Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?


They've never heard of that saying dont poke the bear...???

https://i.ibb.co/ydfb2ct/chester-spike.jpg
China is out of answers, the attempted bullying of trading partners has failed.. Childish pictures wont change that.


Give me one good reason why Australia should want to fight China.

https://i.ibb.co/6RBfPD6/chinatrading.jpg
That actually shows the main reason why china would not wish conflict with Australia. You arent very bright are you?


Why should Australia want conflict with China.....???

One good reason is all I want.....!!!!


They/we don't DH....... but you tell me why Australia has to kowtow to Chinese demands?

Australia is NOT the global aggressor.... but do you have a problem seeing the woods for the trees?


Edited to show correct intent after typo.

As a by the by can anyone tell me how long after making a post does the "modify" icon disappear & then only allow the author to "quote" the post?
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #115 - May 10th, 2021 at 9:19am
 
athos wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 11:38am:
Just wondering why the name "Dick" is so popular among the "Aussie" political Anglo elite.
Smiley


You think you know everything else ... why don't you know that?

Btw the way it's not just used in Australia dickhead.
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #116 - May 10th, 2021 at 9:40am
 
athos wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 12:57pm:
Maybe the English who call themselves "Australians" understand it is high time that China should liberate Australia from British colonial rule as it did with Hong Kong and so give back the land they stole from the rightful owners.
Smiley


China didn't liberate Hong Kong ... it bought it under the yoke of CCP oppression with a false narrative as to how they would maintain the region.

The same as they want to do to Taiwan.

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Gnads
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #117 - May 10th, 2021 at 9:45am
 
athos wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 1:17pm:
lee wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 1:09pm:
athos wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 1:01pm:
Let me break it to you gently, even if you decide to go to 'kinetic' war with China (sounds already like a joke) and manage to kill 1,000,000 Chinese a day, in a year time you will only kill 365 millions. What do you think the remaining 1 BILLION of Chinese will do to you and your English puppet colony?



Of course if we take out China's leadership first? Problem solved. Wink

If Chinese technology is so great how come they couldn't put a destructive device on this falling rocket? What could be the reparations? Roll Eyes


When China liberate Australia from Anglo  rule,  colonial Pentecostal fanatics, Pezzullo and other Australian warmongers will be responsible for putting people's life into danger. So called "Australian values" are shown frequently to be for show only, illegal wars, support of apartheid and racism to please the Empire.
Shame on you.
Smiley


You & your lot are the last ones to point fingers.

Speaking of ruthless empires .... you lot had more than a fair share of those.
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Gnads
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #118 - May 10th, 2021 at 9:58am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 2:00pm:
Gnads wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 8:27am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 10:51pm:
Gnads wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Ajax wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 3:38pm:
Anthony Claydon wrote on May 8th, 2021 at 3:26pm:
1) Communist China is illegally occupying territory outside of UNCLOS in South China sea
2) Communist China is militarizing the South China sea
3) Communist China is threatening democratic Republic of China
4) China is acting hostile to Australia through espionage and attempting to corrupt our democracy



1. Hopefully a peaceful resolution can prevail with that one.

2. They are fortifying their own islands so why complain.

3. They both still consider each other as part of their own territory best not to get involved in an internal affair.

4. And we have been angels in the last 12 months, we haven't been poking the bear....???

If it seems that I'm trying to defend China NO i am not.

But I always look at things as if the roles where reversed its the only way to come to a fair conclusion.


They are not their islands. Like Tibet - they never have been.


Tibet has been and been not Chinese territory at various times during it's history.  It all depends on who you consult and who you believe.  The Islands in the South China Sea have been claimed by China, Japan and the Philippines at various stages as well.  Again, it all depends on who you consult and who you choose to believe.   Xinjiang has more right to call itself independent that either Tibet or the Islands, having only been incorporated into the Chinese empire at the end of the 19th century CE.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


And Ladakh?


According to the British, Ladakh is part of India.  According to the Indians who base their territorial ambitions on British map making which was at the best of times politically suspect, it is part of India.  According to the Chinese, the British lied and so the Indians are lying.   It appears the Chinese have a case. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Most of the peoples throughout the Himilayas are either Buddhists or Islamic.

I'd say they'd be in for the same treatment as the Tibetans & Uyghurs.
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Gnads
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Re: Why does Aussie Anglo elite want war with China?
Reply #119 - May 10th, 2021 at 10:55am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 3:07pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 2:28pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 2:05pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 11:39am:
athos wrote on May 9th, 2021 at 11:30am:
For US Australia is actually the Ukraine in Asia.
The United States uses Australia for biting and and testing China.
However, we must not forget how guinea pigs end up in testing lab.
This is like a tyke yapping at the postman.
25 million vs 1.3 billion people. What do they think you are ? a Superman?

It was the US who defended Australia from the Japanese which ultimately brought WW2 to an end.


*SIGH*  Australia defended Australia.  The yanks had little to do with it. Japan was not in a position to threaten Australia.  They lacked the resources to threaten Australia.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Well, gee... Someone should have told John Curtin that when he thanked MacArthur for defending Australia after his government had determined that northern Australia was indefensible...

Also, maybe Churchill should have allowed Australian troops to return to Australia to defend Australia.


Churchill did.  They departed the Middle East on 30 January 1942 and arrived in Australia mid-march 1942.  America under Macarthur only provided minimal forces to the North of Australia for it's defence, preferring to keep the majority for offensive purposes in the South Pacific.  Australia was under no direct threat from Japan.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


New Guinea, New Britain,The Admiralty Islands, the Solomons ...Guadal Canal.

In fact all nations from just north of the Equator & all the way south to New Zealand is classed as the South Pacific.

Australia, Micronesia, Melanesia, Polynesia.

Minimal forces my backside.

After being taken by US forces Seeadler Harbour on Manus Island was a main staging/supply point for MacArturs US Naval force operations in WW2.

Manus is part of PNG.

Why were the Japs based on Manus using Seeadler Harbor & main based on New Britain using Rabaul Harbour?

Pretty close to home ey?

Quote:
Between February 1942 and November 1943, during the Pacific War of World War II, the Australian mainland, domestic airspace, offshore islands and coastal shipping were attacked at least 111 times by aircraft from the Imperial Japanese Navy Air Force and Imperial Japanese Army Air Force. These attacks came in various forms; from large-scale raids by medium bombers, to torpedo attacks on ships, and to strafing runs by fighters.

In the first and deadliest set of attacks, 242 aircraft hit Darwin on the morning of 19 February 1942. Killing at least 235 people and causing immense damage, the attacks made hundreds of people homeless and resulted in the abandonment of Darwin as a major naval base.

These attacks were opposed by, and often aimed at, units and personnel from the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), Australian Army, Royal Australian Navy, United States Army Air Forces, United States Navy, British Royal Air Force and Royal Netherlands East Indies Air Force. Japanese aircrews also targeted civil infrastructure, including harbours, civil airfields, railways and fuel tanks. Some civilians were also killed.


50 of those 111 air raids were on Darwin alone.

A lot of time, effort & resources used by the Japanese in being "no direct threat" to Australia. Roll Eyes
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