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Lessons in AGW (Read 4571 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #90 - Apr 12th, 2021 at 9:41am
 
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(And actually, there is no saturation. The primitive infrared techniques of the laboratory measurements made at the turn of the century had given a misleading result. Studies from the 1940s on have shown that there is not nearly enough CO2 in the atmosphere to block most of the infrared radiation in the bands of the spectrum where the gas absorbs it. Nor does water vapor bring complete saturation, in desert regions where the air is extremely dry.)      
If anyone had put forth these simple arguments in the 1950s, they would not have convinced other scientists unless they were backed up by a specific, numerical calculation. The structure of the H2O and CO2 absorption bands at a given pressure and temperature did need to be considered in figuring just how much radiation is absorbed in any given layer. Every detail had to be taken into account in order to calculate whether adding a greenhouse gas would warm the atmosphere negligably or by many degrees.      

The challenge attracted physicist Gilbert N. Plass, who had already been doing lengthy calculations of infrared absorption in the atmosphere. He held an advantage over earlier workers, having not only the use of digital computers, but also better numbers, from spectroscopic measurements done by a group of experimenters he was collaborating with at the Johns Hopkins University. Military agencies supported their work for its near-term practical applications. But Plass happened to have read Callendar's papers, and he was personally intrigued by the old puzzle of the ice ages and other climate changes.      Gilber PlassGil Plass
Plass pursued a thorough set of one-dimensional computations, taking into account the structure of the absorption bands at all layers of the atmosphere. In 1956 he explained clearly, for the first time, that the water vapor absorption lines did not block the quite different CO2 absorption spectrum, adding that there was scarcely any water in the upper atmosphere anyway. He further explained that although some of the CO2 band itself was truly saturated, there were many lines to the side where adding more of the gas would increase the absorption of radiation. His arguments and calculations showed convincingly that adding or subtracting CO2 could seriously affect the radiation balance, layer by layer through the atmosphere, altering the temperature by a degree or more down to ground level.(10a)
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lee
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #91 - Apr 12th, 2021 at 1:00pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 12th, 2021 at 9:41am:
And actually, there is no saturation.


And yet the atmosphere has been shown to be effectively saturated. Adding more CO2 produces less response.

According to Happer and van Wijngaarden adding more CO2 is like putting a handkerchief onto a doona.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #92 - Apr 12th, 2021 at 1:29pm
 
I told you before that CO2 is not saturated.

If you had read what I posted you would know that the CO2 is not saturated.

More CO2 causes more warming.
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #93 - Apr 12th, 2021 at 2:36pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 12th, 2021 at 1:29pm:
If you had read what I posted you would know that the CO2 is not saturated.


It is so close the putative effect is SFA. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 12th, 2021 at 1:29pm:
More CO2 causes more warming.



How much more warming petal? Remember its effects decrease logarithmically. Wink
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #94 - Apr 12th, 2021 at 3:25pm
 
Keep reading, Desperate lee.
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lee
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #95 - Apr 12th, 2021 at 4:13pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 12th, 2021 at 3:25pm:
Keep reading, Desperate lee.



Poor petal. Too afraid to put a limit to it.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

This may help you -

...

Five postulates are shown here, which have been provided by sceptic sources and the IPCC.  The graph shows in orange the remaining temperature effect of CO2 that could be affected by radical worldwide global de-carbonisation policies, maintaining CO2 levels at the current 400 ppmv.  The warming that might result by raising the CO2 level from 400 ppmv up to 1000 ppmv, according to each of these postulates.

The range of alternate postulates shows CO2 affecting in the range of ~2% – ~20%.  Of these a median value of ~10% is agreed between Lindzen, (as published by the IPCC) and other sceptic academics such as Plimer, Carter, Ball and Archibald.  Even lower values are quotes down to ~2% (Salby), whereas other IPCC quoted values give CO2 a significance of  up to ~21%.

The last two studies are from IPCC authors.

https://edmhdotme.wordpress.com/2014/09/13/the-diminishing-influence-of-increasi...
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« Last Edit: Apr 12th, 2021 at 4:20pm by lee »  
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #96 - May 2nd, 2021 at 3:20pm
 
Did you have a look at that blog? Loony toons!
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lee
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #97 - May 2nd, 2021 at 4:26pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 2nd, 2021 at 3:20pm:
Did you have a look at that blog? Loony toons!


Ah the shoot the messenger again. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #98 - May 2nd, 2021 at 5:04pm
 
So you didn’t read it.

Read it, it is a laugh, a sad laugh.
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lee
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #99 - May 2nd, 2021 at 5:15pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 2nd, 2021 at 5:04pm:
So you didn’t read it.

Read it, it is a laugh, a sad laugh.


So sad that you can't critique it. You were supposed to be a scientist. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #100 - May 2nd, 2021 at 6:01pm
 
Critique a heap of rubbish?
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lee
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Re: Lessons in AGW
Reply #101 - May 2nd, 2021 at 7:36pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 2nd, 2021 at 6:01pm:
Critique a heap of rubbish?

Of course. IF you have salient points. I guess that means you don't have salient points. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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