Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
Violence towards women (Read 4305 times)
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43638
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #15 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:50pm
 
Continuing:

Quote:
Male violence is the standout feature of the day, but it is also central to my argument that the masculinity enjoined on all men, and paraded by so many, is a fraud. On this, I take my distance from radical feminism, notably that of the influential school of Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin, which sees violence as the unadulterated and never-failing expression of male sexuality and power – a self-defeating argument if ever there was one (if true, then men will rule the world for ever). Instead, it is crucial for me that, even while calling out masculinity in its worst guise, we allow to individual men the potential gap between maleness and the infinite complexity of the human mind.

How can we as feminists make that gap the beating heart of women’s fight against oppression, against the stultifying ideology of what women are meant to be, and not allow the same internal breathing space to men? Surely our chance of a better world relies on the ability of all of us to stop, think and reject the most deadly “requisite” behaviours? No man comfortably possesses masculinity (any more than, other than by killing, one person is in total possession of anyone else). Indeed, such mastery is the very delusion that underpins the deranged and most highly prized version of masculinity on offer. Prowess is a lie, as every inch of mortal flesh bears witness. But like all lies, in order to be believed, it has to be endlessly repeated.

One of the most striking aspects of the saga of Hollywood producer and sexual abuser Harvey Weinstein, as told by Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey who broke the story in the New York Times, is that he seems to have been at least as keen on the slow burn of coercion and resistance, which would sometimes go on for hours, as on any act of so-called consummation.

Rowena Chiu, for example, describes how, shortly after being hired as his assistant, she endured four hours of threats, cajoling and bribes. At the end, “He parted her legs, and told her that with one single thrust it would all be over”. She managed to get out of the room. (What exactly, we might ask, was in it for him?) Clearly, for Weinstein, the revulsion he provoked was a core component of his pleasure, which is not to say that he did not also wish to get his way with these women. “If he heard the word ‘no’,” commented one of the key witnesses in the February 2020 New York rape trial, who chose not to be named, “it was like a trigger.” For Zelda Perkins, another assistant who was subjected to his assaults, he was “pathologically” addicted: “It was what got him out of bed in the morning.”
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10958
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #16 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:59pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:50pm:
Continuing:

Quote:
Male violence is the standout feature of the day, but it is also central to my argument that the masculinity enjoined on all men, and paraded by so many, is a fraud. On this, I take my distance from radical feminism, notably that of the influential school of Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin, which sees violence as the unadulterated and never-failing expression of male sexuality and power – a self-defeating argument if ever there was one (if true, then men will rule the world for ever). Instead, it is crucial for me that, even while calling out masculinity in its worst guise, we allow to individual men the potential gap between maleness and the infinite complexity of the human mind.

How can we as feminists make that gap the beating heart of women’s fight against oppression, against the stultifying ideology of what women are meant to be, and not allow the same internal breathing space to men? Surely our chance of a better world relies on the ability of all of us to stop, think and reject the most deadly “requisite” behaviours? No man comfortably possesses masculinity (any more than, other than by killing, one person is in total possession of anyone else). Indeed, such mastery is the very delusion that underpins the deranged and most highly prized version of masculinity on offer. Prowess is a lie, as every inch of mortal flesh bears witness. But like all lies, in order to be believed, it has to be endlessly repeated.

One of the most striking aspects of the saga of Hollywood producer and sexual abuser Harvey Weinstein, as told by Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey who broke the story in the New York Times, is that he seems to have been at least as keen on the slow burn of coercion and resistance, which would sometimes go on for hours, as on any act of so-called consummation.

Rowena Chiu, for example, describes how, shortly after being hired as his assistant, she endured four hours of threats, cajoling and bribes. At the end, “He parted her legs, and told her that with one single thrust it would all be over”. She managed to get out of the room. (What exactly, we might ask, was in it for him?) Clearly, for Weinstein, the revulsion he provoked was a core component of his pleasure, which is not to say that he did not also wish to get his way with these women. “If he heard the word ‘no’,” commented one of the key witnesses in the February 2020 New York rape trial, who chose not to be named, “it was like a trigger.” For Zelda Perkins, another assistant who was subjected to his assaults, he was “pathologically” addicted: “It was what got him out of bed in the morning.”


Whole lotta garbage JV you seem to dwell in it from climate to almost everything else.

Harvey Weinstein in a masculine world would be right down at the bottom, probably a joke and a clown to his male counter parts.

Women probably had puke half way up their throats if they ever thought of Harvey Weinstein as a sexual partner or anything to do with sex.

Harvey Weinstein was a sexual predator because in the masculine world he was and would be a nobody.


Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43638
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #17 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 3:03pm
 
Weinstein was still a man.
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10958
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #18 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 3:06pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 3:03pm:
Weinstein was still a man.


Yeah a dirty old man that took advantage of his power because no woman in her right mind would look at him.
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43638
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #19 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 3:19pm
 
Privilege and entitlement, to relate this back to an earlier post ^^^^^
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43638
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #20 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 4:55pm
 
Quote:
If sexual violence always tends to spiral out of control, it is because the agent of that violence must know deep down he is on a losing wicket. Weinstein’s physical collapse after his arrest can therefore be read not just as a staged plea for sympathy – a day after photos were released showing him using a walking frame on his way into court in December 2019, he was seen walking around a supermarket unaided – but also as an inadvertent display of the fragility and eventual bitter truth of the human body, a truth his predatory behaviour was designed to conceal from the women he abused, from the world, and from himself.

This suggests to me that one reason why he got away with it for so long, why so many people in the profession chose to turn a blind eye, was not just brute negligence towards women, nor fear of the career-destroying consequences for anyone who dared to speak out; it was also because no one wanted to open the Pandora’s box of a man like Weinstein’s inner world, to look too closely at his greatest fears – any more than they wanted to recognise what, given half a chance, such a man might be capable of.
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 72246
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #21 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 5:30pm
 
Ajax wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:41pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:35pm:
Ajax wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:23pm:
2. How did men make sure of that cods, surely it was the system and not the poor man right beside the poor woman on the street.



surely you're kidding? Most women couldn't go to work and earn decent money in those days. No one would hire them ... except perhaps as servants.


Johnny 200 years ago you might have been homeless and on the street.


200 years ago you might have been working my land Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
uota for females in Parliament
Reply #22 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 5:44pm
 
Ajax wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:40pm:
cods wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:32pm:
Ajax wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:23pm:
cods wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:12pm:
its called INDEPENDENCE


    1. you do realise before all that women didnt eat if they didnt have a husband....

2. men made sure of that???...

  even today   a loaf of bread costs the same  no matter who buys it   male or female..

it would be nice to think females get the same considerations as men  in every field   but somehow it never quite gets there...   females still have to fight on some fronts..



1. You mean if you were poor you didn't eat right.....???
basically, YOU GO IT.... why do you think women sold their bodies???....because they liked it?

Like Jean Valjean in Les Miserables spent 20 years in jail for smashing a shop window and stealing some bread.

MANY WERE SENT TO AUSTRALIA


2. How did men make sure of that cods, surely it was the system and not the poor man right beside the poor woman on the street.


1. the SYSTEM WAS?IS CREATED BY MEN....

a SYSTEM DOESNT JUST HAPPEN....

2.like LAWS  ARE MADE BY MEN! WITH MEN IN MIND...


1. Yes a hand full of privileged men. The majority of men do not fall into this category...!

2. You mean like the ex wife for whatever reason not letting the ex hubby see the children and if the hubby is working class he has no money to contest this in court.

Or the fact that in most divorces the men get fleeced and wind up on the street.

Again this is the system not that women have infiltrated the system to make it better for women.

The bottom line is the state would rather impoverish the man rather than look after his ex wife and kids.




I dont know what you are talking about ajax  but I am talking about women in the last century who have had to fight for everything they have ever had given to them   even the VOTE  not in this country maybe but in others they went to jail and were forcefed treated like rubbish..... divorce was un heard of in those days....so stop deflecting...  if a women was divorced she was labeled a bad women...laws have changed I agree   but its taken a hell of a long time and still we battle!
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43638
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #23 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 10:25am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 1:16pm:
No, that is not how feminism started.

Women worked in munitions and other defence works in the US Civil War, in WWI and in WWII. They got to like working and being paid, did not want to give that up.

Then came the Pill and women could control their own fertility and hence pursue careers and life outside the home.

There has been a reaction against this by insecure males who believe they have lost what they are entitled to—control of their wife.

Now read the article again.


Re the Civil War:
Quote:
. . .the sewing machine multipliedthe productivity of seamstresses making army uniforms and other clothing; and the Blake-McKay machine for sewing uppers to the soles of shoes reduced the time consumed in that process one hundredfold. Third was a great increase in the employment of women, in occupations ranging from government civil service and army nursing to agricultural field work and manufacturing. In agriculture, the increased use of farm machinery enabled women to fill much of the gap left by the enlistment of nearly a million northern farmers and farm laborers in the army. “I met more women driving teams on the road and saw more at work in the fields than men,” wrote a traveler in Iowa during the fall of 1862. As evidence of “the great revolution which machinery is making in agriculture,” reported another observer the following year, he saw “a stout matron whose sons are in the army, with her team cutting hay. . . . She cut seven acres with ease in a day, riding leisurely on her cutter.” In northern industry women worked mainly in occupations where they were already prominent—textiles, clothing, shoemaking—but increased their proportion of the manufacturing labor force from one-fourth to one-third during the war. Because women earned much less than men for the same or similar jobs, their expanded proportion of the wartime labor force kept down the average of wage increases.


From: Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (Oxford History of the United States Book 6) (p. 449). Oxford University Press. Kindle Edition.

Even more so in the World Wars. Women got to like making an income, making their own way in life. THAT led to the rise of Feminism. The Pill gave another freedom.
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43638
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #24 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 10:38am
 
Continuing on from the last excerpt from the Guardian article:

Quote:
his puts anyone seeking to combat these forms of violence in something of a double bind, or at least imposes on us the need for special vigilance. If sexual violence arises from a form of tunnel vision, and from burying those aspects of the inner life that are most difficult to acknowledge or see, it is also the case that raising violence to the surface of public consciousness is not always transformative in the ways we would want it to be.

Perhaps nowhere so much as in the field of sexual oppression does the adage apply that recognising an injustice, and bringing it to the world’s attention, is no guarantee that the offence will be obliterated and justice prevail.

Weinstein’s February 2020 conviction for criminal sexual assault in the first degree and rape in the third degree, along with his jail sentence of 23 years the following month, are a victory for women. He was, however, cleared on the two most serious charges of predatory sexual assault, which means that one of the women – the actor Annabella Sciorra, who had been the first woman to testify against him in a criminal court – was not believed.

The suggestion by Weinstein’s lawyer, Donna Rotunno, that she would be an “excellent witness” as she had spent her whole life “acting for a living” appears to have been effective – as if only liars make acting their career. The idea that this trial dismantled once and for all the image of the “perfect” rape victim – someone unknown to the assailant, certainly not in a relationship with him that continued after the rape, able to recover and recount her experience with perfect clarity almost from the moment it happened – might also have been premature. There is also the risk that the fame that put him under the spotlight might turn out to have served as a distraction from the perennial, “mundane” nature of sexual crime.

In this case, revulsion against a sexual felon – the revulsion that also appears to have fuelled his own desire – and the law were on the same side. But time and again we see the legal struggle for redress against sexual assault brought up against the most stubborn forms of resistance and sidelining. This seems to be due, at least in part, to the fact that human subjects can be roused by what disgusts them; that licentiousness, even in the political order that is meant to tame and subdue it, can be a draw. This certainly seems to have played a part in the 2016 election of Donald Trump, when his ugly misogyny was either dismissed as mere masculine playfulness, or else championed, and positively fired up his base, as it continues to do to this day.


This is STILL a big problem for women. How many cases of rape are not reported to the police?
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #25 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 10:47am
 
women  still have this   IT WAS MY FAULT hang up  sadly women do put themselves in harms way   it isnt as if we would wander through a jungle full of tigers without a care in the world is it?   yet we feel we should be able to walk through the darkest streets  at all hours....

in a perfect world!

just because we dont have man eating animals wandering around our country,

doesnt mean our streets are safe from predators...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43638
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #26 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 11:06am
 
No codsy, it isn’t!
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10958
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #27 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 12:10pm
 
cods wrote on Apr 5th, 2021 at 10:47am:
yet we feel we should be able to walk through the darkest streets  at all hours....


I cannot understand why women have this illusion that they should be safe walking the streets after dark and in the early hours of the morning by themselves.

Men do not suffer from this illusion, they know that if they are going to cross for example a paddock a park or an area that is not very well lite up there could be danger.

If men are alone in the city on a Saturday night in the early hours of the morning they know that they are an easy target  for a mob of predators.

Is it that a woman's sense of danger is a couple of notches down from a man's sense of danger, in other words men can recognise a dangerous situation better than woman can.

Men do not think that they should be privileged to walk the streets at night all alone without any danger, like you said cods there are predators every where.

I have never heard a man say this to me, but women seem to say it all the time, that we should be safe walking around by ourselves at night.

Criminals are out there just waiting for the easiest of opportunities, a lone male or a lone female, for a group would make an easy target.

As can be seen in the news men get mugged, stabbed, hospitalized and sometimes killed all the time when out and about during the night, especially in the early hours of the morning.

So if men are being attacked on the street in the middle of the night why would women be any different.


Back to top
« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2021 at 12:16pm by Ajax »  

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Jovial Monk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Dogs not cats!

Posts: 43638
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #28 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 12:42pm
 
Wow, you are so wide off the mark you are in a different country!

Women believe that they SHOULD be able to walk alone in city streets at night. None do that, however.
Back to top
 

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10958
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Violence towards women
Reply #29 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 12:44pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 5th, 2021 at 12:42pm:
Wow, you are so wide off the mark you are in a different country!

Women believe that they SHOULD be able to walk alone in city streets at night. None do that, however.



Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print