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The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB (Read 3426 times)
Jovial Monk
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The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Apr 2nd, 2021 at 10:58am
 
None were willing to outright say the world is cooling. Good reason for that, terrestrial and satellite observations both say it is warming at the rate of 0.2°C per decade. That is a fact, a fact skeptics very much want to disappear. The fact won’t disappear so skeptics create comforting beliefs that it is, that a mini ice age is about to happen.

The Finnish snowfall was a good example. Someone in Finland said the piles of snow removed from roads etc and dumped in thick piles “may not melt completely over the summer.” This was an accurate quote.

Within a few posts however we see the skeptics (=cowards) translate this as Finnish snowfall not melting over the summer. Actual snowfall depth is of course much less than the depth of piles of dumped snow.

In the whole thread no skeptic looks up anything about the formation of snow—facts are way too dangerous for skeptics to get near to. They could have looked up, e.g: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow

The ultimate irony: Booby who has pages and pages of weather reports that have come from MSM reports bleats that the MSM doesn’t cover cold weather. Even the Dumbyne videos are loosely based on MSM reports of cold weather twisted to Dumbyne’s spiel about a mini ice age.

The basic facts are that global temperatures are climbing at the rate of 0.2°C per decade. Volcanic eruptions, if big enough, and La Nina events as well as various ocean events (multidecadal oscillations) can cause minor dips in the graph while El Ninos and various ocean events can cause peaks in the graph of temperatures over time. This variation aside, global temperatures are increasing at the rate of 0.2°C per decade.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #1 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:03am
 
Quote:
HadCRUT4 surface temperature index


The HadCRUT4 surface temperature index produced by the,

a. Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the,

b. Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia show the following trends

1878 to 1911…………….cooling

1912 to 1941…………….warming

1942 to 1964…………….cooling

1965 to 1998……………..warming

1999 to 2011………………cooling

Warming rate from 1908 to 1938………0.13°C per decade

Warming rate from 1983 to 2013………0.17°C per decade

Satellite data shows 2002 to mid 2015………..cooling

Warming pause ends late 2015 with El Nino event starting late 2015

The UAH analysis of satellite data gives a warming trend from 1979 to 2020 of 0.14°C per decade

The IPCC global circulations models (computer models) predicted a warming trend of 0.27°C per decade

That’s just under twice the warming we have experienced in the real world by observations of nature the last 40 years.


https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=3



Quote:
“Cold Weather Kills 20 Times As Many People As Hot Weather”


https://friendsofsciencecalgary.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/cold-weather-kills-m...

However, Excess Winter Deaths are not the worst threats to humanity.

The glacial cycle averages about 100,000 years, consisting of about 90,000 years of the glacial period, when mile-thick continental glaciers blanketed much of the Northern and Southern Hemispheres including Canada, Russia, Northern Europe and Northern USA, and about 10,000 years of interglacial, the warm period of the present.

Earth is now 11,500 years into the current warm interglacial, and our planet may re-enter the glacial period at any time.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/01/the-next-great-extinction-event-will-not-...
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #2 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:24am
 
Ajax, satellite and terrestrial observations both show we are warming at the rate of 0.2°C per decade.

Climate is 30 years, those short intervals are meaningless.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #3 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:33am
 
That's right 30 years equates to climate not weather, what are the intervals between those years, except for 1999 - 2011.

Your satellite data doesn't seem to match mine....LOL
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #4 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:38am
 
HADCRUT is terrestrial.

Only time since early 20th century that tha globe cooled a tiny bit was midcentury, 1940–1979. That was due increasing sulphate emissions which act as aerosols, reflecting some sunlight back to space. Clean Air Acts stopped sulphate emissions increasing while CO2 emissions just kept on rising and the warming was no longer masked.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #5 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:39am
 
Our Melbourne summer has been the coolest in 5 years.
We didn’t have many hot days....
We are now in the 2nd month of autumn and no autumn leaves anywhere.
So we are having a late autumn due to our cool summer.

It’s confusing.

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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #6 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:42am
 
A strong La Nina kept the SE of Australia nice and cool. Now we are having a nice Indian Summer. I am not complaining!
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #7 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:46am
 
1878 to 1911…………….cooling

1912 to 1941…………….warming

1942 to 1964…………….cooling

1965 to 1998……………..warming

1999 to 2011………………cooling,
only 12 years, “cooling” was partly at least the return to normal temperatures after the huge 1998 El Nino


Warming rate from 1908 to 1938………0.13°C per decade

Warming rate from 1983 to 2013………0.17°C per decade

Satellite data shows 2002 to mid 2015………..cooling
<-- not 30 years


Terrestrial observations are just below 0.2°C./decase, satellite observations just above 0.2°C/decade.

Apart from the mid century, the globe has been warming since the early 20th century. No real reason to doubt the warming.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #8 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:49am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:38am:
Ajax, satellite and terrestrial observations both show we are warming at the rate of 0.2°C per decade.

HADCRUT is terrestrial.

Only time since early 20th century that tha globe cooled a tiny bit was midcentury, 1940–1979. That was due increasing sulphate emissions which act as aerosols, reflecting some sunlight back to space. Clean Air Acts stopped sulphate emissions increasing while CO2 emissions just kept on rising and the warming was no longer masked.


Care to provide your database..........LINK....?!?!
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #9 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:49am
 
A Maunder level GSM will cool the globe by 0.2°C. We have warmed 1.2°C since 1980, a 0.2°C cooling would not do much. And AGW would still be working, there would not be a temperature drop due to a GSM, not a detectable one as the heat in the oceans would buffer any cooling.

No ice age.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #10 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:56am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:49am:
A Maunder level GSM will cool the globe by 0.2°C. We have warmed 1.2°C since 1980, a 0.2°C cooling would not do much. And AGW would still be working, there would not be a temperature drop due to a GSM, not a detectable one as the heat in the oceans would buffer any cooling.

No ice age.


Where are you getting all this information from because it is WRONG.........!!!!!

Quote:
According to an ongoing temperature analysis conducted by scientists at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), the average global temperature on Earth has increased by a little more than 1° Celsius (2° Fahrenheit) since 1880. Two-thirds of the warming has occurred since 1975, at a rate of roughly 0.15-0.20°C per decade.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/global-temperatures

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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #11 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 12:05pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:46am:
1878 to 1911…………….cooling

1912 to 1941…………….warming

1942 to 1964…………….cooling

1965 to 1998……………..warming

1999 to 2011………………cooling,
only 12 years, “cooling” was partly at least the return to normal temperatures after the huge 1998 El Nino


Warming rate from 1908 to 1938………0.13°C per decade

Warming rate from 1983 to 2013………0.17°C per decade

Satellite data shows 2002 to mid 2015………..cooling
<-- not 30 years


Terrestrial observations are just below 0.2°C./decase, satellite observations just above 0.2°C/decade.

Apart from the mid century, the globe has been warming since the early 20th century. No real reason to doubt the warming.


The Earth has warmed I am not saying that it has not warmed.

I agree with you that we have warmed.

We have been warming since the little ice age (LIA).

...
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #12 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 12:07pm
 
LIA wasn’t that cold, wasn’t even an ice age.

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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #13 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 12:08pm
 
Better, shows temperature anomalies dropped from -0.15”C to -0.5°C, a drop of 0.35°C over the LIA.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #14 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 12:12pm
 
Must remember, the Milankovitch Cycle was dropping over all that time, should have been substantial cooling but even with GSMs etc, insignificant cooling.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #15 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 12:16pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 12:08pm:
Better, shows temperature anomalies dropped from -0.15”C to -0.5°C, a drop of 0.35°C over the LIA.


Do I smell a hockey stick, why yes I do smell a hockey stick.

Sorry hockey stick was thrown under the bus a very very very long time ago.

...
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #16 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 12:18pm
 
Sorry Ajax but the “hockey stick” has been confirmed several times. It is what the paleoclimatology data shows.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #17 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 1:03pm
 
[quote author=Jovial_Abbott link=1617325123/2#2 date=1617326684]Ajax, satellite and terrestrial observations both show we are warming at the rate of 0.2°C per decade.

Climate is 30 years, those short intervals are meaningless.[/quote]

Actually it is a MINIMUM of 30 years. And the MWO did the 30 years because that was the only good data they had at the time.

"The  30-year  period  of  reference  was  set  as  a  standard  mainly  because  only  30  years  of  data  were  available for summarization when the recommendation was first made. "

[url]http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/wcp/ccl/guide/documents/Normals-Guide-to-Climate-190116_en.pdf[/url]

[quote author=Jovial_Abbott link=1617325123/16#16 date=1617329922]Sorry Ajax but the “hockey stick” has been confirmed several times. It is what the paleoclimatology data shows. [/quote]

Marcott? ;)

it has also been debunked many times. How wide are the error bars in the proxies? ;)
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #18 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 1:15pm
 
Many hockey sticks:

...
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #19 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 1:20pm
 
And of course we expect a hockey stick.

There is the Milankovitch cycle, turning down for 4000 years.

Later came the mainly North Atlantic (misnamed) Little Ice Age. Within the LIA were several GSMs.

But mankind had turned to intensive agriculture and its corollary, cities before the downturn of he Miulankovitch Cycle and was increasing emissions of CO2. With the Industrial Revolution AGW reversed the cooling trend and we are warming at the rate of 2°C per century. As a consequence, sea levels are rising.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #20 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 2:33pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 1:15pm:
Many hockey sticks:


And the warming started in the 1600 during the lia?   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

And of course you don't give the error bars on those proxies. Why is that? Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 1:20pm:
Later came the mainly North Atlantic (misnamed) Little Ice Age. Within the LIA were several GSMs.


Mainly North Atlantic? It is found in each of the main land groups in the SH. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 1:20pm:
With the Industrial Revolution AGW reversed the cooling trend and we are warming at the rate of 2°C per century.


Exactly how did AGW reverse? Do you mean CO2 is not the control knob? Oh dear.

Even the IPCC says that there wasn't enough CO2 to worry about pre-1950's. But you claim you can see it - Just like Greta. Grin Grin Grin Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 1:20pm:
As a consequence, sea levels are rising.



Is it AGW or merely warming petal?
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #21 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 2:52pm
 
If it is not AGW then what do you think is warming the globe “petal?”
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #22 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 3:02pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 2:52pm:
If it is not AGW then what do you think is warming the globe “petal?”



Who knows?  But you certainly can't show CO2 as the control knob.

Global brightening from the decrease in pollution? And NO petal CO2 is not a pollutant. Wink
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #23 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 3:19pm
 
Yes, we can show CO2 is the driver of the AGW that is warming the globe. It is something we have known for 160 years.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #24 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 3:21pm
 
The only other thing that could cause global warming is the sun. Pity then for deniersthat the sun went a bit quiet in the 1980s. It makes denialism a non-argument. lee implicitly acknowledges that the globe is warming.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #25 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:38pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 3:19pm:
Yes, we can show CO2 is the driver of the AGW that is warming the globe. It is something we have known for 160 years.



No petal. CO2 may warm the globe all other things being equal. Even NASA now admits it is water vapour is the most powerful GHG. What was shown 160 years ago was it had the potential to do so. How much is the question.

Remember the paper I quoted Happer and van Wijngaarden  - CO2 and water vapour are mostly saturated.

And of course the Ceres OLR shows no sign of any heat being trapped.

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 3:21pm:
The only other thing that could cause global warming is the sun. Pity then for deniersthat the sun went a bit quiet in the 1980s.



And yet the sun continued to shine, warming the globe. Apart from vulcanism the only source of heat for the planet.

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 3:21pm:
lee implicitly acknowledges that the globe is warming.


Just another lie from JM. I have said I don't know. The data is very noisy. What is the accuracy of all the data?
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Reply #26 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:47pm
 
Your answer to my previous posts show you know it is warming.

Water vapor condenses, CO2/CH4/N20 etc do not. CO2 is the driver. I have shown that as the amount of CO2 increases the radiation reaching space do so from higher and higher in the atmosphere. At these levels there is little to no H2O. It is also colder, harder to radiate so the surface keeps warming.

CO2 is clearly the driver of AGW.
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Reply #27 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:50pm
 
Vulcanism is not a source of heat. It is existing heat from deep down. Just like El Nino is not a source of heat, just a reshuffling of heat between ocean and atmosphere.

A quieter sun means less warming at the surface. Yet we warm at the rate of 0.2°C/decade. It can only be by the heat from the surface not being able to be radiated away.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #28 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 5:18pm
 
MWP & LIA

...

Scientific papers that say Medieval warm period warmer than today and was GLOBAL.

Dahl_Jensen et al 1998
Wagner & Melles 2001
Kaplan et al 2002
Jiang et al 2002
Moore et al 2001
Grudd et al 2002
Seppa & Birks 2002
Dansgaard et al 1975
Korhola et al 2000
Naurzbaev et al 2002
Vaganov et el 1996
Briffa et al 1998
Scweingruber & Briffa 1996
Knudsen et al 2004
Grinsted et al 2006
Besonen et al 2008
Wagner et al 2008
Vare et al 2009
Norgaard-Pedersen & Mikkelsen 2009
Andresen et al 2004
Vinther et al 2010
Kobashi et al 2010
Kobashi et al 2008
Stuiver et al 1995
Dansgaard et al 1975
Jenings & Weiner 1996
Johnsen et al 2001
Vinther et al 2010
Larsen et al 2011
Hill et al 2001
Joynt & Wolfe 2001
Hantemirov & Shiyatov 2002
Andersson et al 2003
Helama et al 2005
Mazepa 2005
Weckstrom et al 2006
Jiang et al 2007
Zabenski & Gajewski 2007
Grudd 2008
Justwan et al 2008
Scire et al 2008
Axford et al 2009
Bjune et al 2009
Cook et al 2009
Fortin & Gajewski 2010
Buntgen et al 2011
Divine et al 2011
Ran et al 2011
Velle et al 2011
D’Andrea et al 2012
Esper et al 2012


...

752 individual scientists from
442 separate research institutes from
41 countries around the globe


...

http://joannenova.com.au/2019/07/erasing-2000-years-of-the-medieval-warm-period-...

...

http://co2science.org/cSearch.php?action=SEARCH&lan=&keyword=medieval+warm+perio...
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #29 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 5:26pm
 
It was mostly north Atlantic.

We are now warmer than the MWP.

Your two graphs are complete junk, please throw them away.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #30 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 5:28pm
 
Ajax, the sun went a bit quiet in the 1980s. We have warmed 1.1°C since then. It is nit the sun causing the warming.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #31 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 5:32pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:47pm:
Water vapor condenses,



And does it all rain out? No.

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:47pm:
I have shown that as the amount of CO2 increases the radiation reaching space do so from higher and higher in the atmosphere.


So the outgoing heat energy magically by passes the lower areas? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:47pm:
At these levels there is little to no H2O. It is also colder, harder to radiate so the surface keeps warming.



So the only thing stopping this heat energy escaping to space is CO2 and the OLR from CERES shows that isn't happening. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:47pm:
CO2 is clearly the driver of AGW.



Show us petal. Your words do not inspire confidence. Wink


Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:50pm:
Vulcanism is not a source of heat. It is existing heat from deep down. Just like El Nino is not a source of heat, just a reshuffling of heat between ocean and atmosphere.


So in actual fact a source. Roll Eyes  El Nino is not a source of heat. I agree with you it is a function of the sun warming shallow water. WinkJovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:50pm:
A quieter sun means less warming at the surface.


What that +/-1W/m2 makes all that difference? Not what you were saying the other day. Tell us about the uncertainties in the Global Energy Budget. Something like 27W/m2 wasn't it? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 4:50pm:
It can only be by the heat from the surface not being able to be radiated away.



And yet the Ceres Data shows that isn't happening. Your circular logic strikes again. Roll Eyes
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Reply #32 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 5:52pm
 
You will have to show that CERES does what you say. Include links.

https://ceres.larc.nasa.gov/science/ does not say what you say it does.

Are you a liar, lee? Looks like it.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #33 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:02pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 5:26pm:
It was mostly north Atlantic.

We are now warmer than the MWP.

Your two graphs are complete junk, please throw them away.


Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 5:28pm:
Ajax, the sun went a bit quiet in the 1980s. We have warmed 1.1°C since then. It is nit the sun causing the warming.


Too many scientists in too many countries have produced too many studies / papers and so the MWP and the LIA which the hockey stick tried to hide cannot be swept under the carpet.

If these scientists were on MSM the AGW religion would die that very same day.

...
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Reply #34 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:11pm
 
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Reply #35 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:14pm
 
I was talking to Desperate lee the liar.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #36 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:30pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 5:52pm:
You will have to show that CERES does what you say. Include links.



...

Of course you may not trust Dewitte and Clerbaux.

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 5:52pm:
https://ceres.larc.nasa.gov/science/ does not say what you say it does.


Strangely nasa doesn't want to respond. Shocked

But if you could post what you found?
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Reply #37 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:38pm
 
I gave a link.

You do not show that all IR escaped to space. Less seems to be escaping, looking a the GISS linear projection.

You show a small increase in OLR, that is to be expected of a warming world, not? Stefan-Boltzmann Law and all that. You have not given evidence of what you said about CERES.

Why not post that diagram you like so much?
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #38 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 7:36pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:38pm:
I gave a link.



Yes you did. And I get getting a timed out message on all larc.nasa.

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:38pm:
You do not show that all IR escaped to space.



You are right. I showed that it is not decreasing in the face of increasing CO2. You do understand the difference petal?

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:38pm:
You show a small increase in OLR, that is to be expected of a warming world, not? Stefan-Boltzmann Law and all that



No according to your previous posts on outgoing radiation it was supposed to drop. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:38pm:
You have not given evidence of what you said about CERES.



Ah so it has to be only CERES and not HRS or ERBE?  What a twit. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 6:38pm:
Why not post that diagram you like so much?



Which one petal? Marcott et al 2013 or perhaps the Relative Humidity one that disagrees with Hansen 2009 about AGW increasing water vapour? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Reply #39 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 7:53pm
 
It is not decreasing because outgoing IR increases by the fourth power of temperature.

Face it, you have not shown any of your statements as true. As usual.

Got something better?
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Reply #40 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 8:04pm
 
One of the early preachers in the climate change religion.

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Reply #41 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 8:07pm
 
Do you know the context of his remarks?

He was not a climate scientist, of course.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #42 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 8:15pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 7:53pm:
It is not decreasing because outgoing IR increases by the fourth power of temperature.



So you have changed your mind about spectroscopy showing reduced OLR to space? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

"Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 5th, 2021 at 2:17pm:
Satellite spectroscopy shows top of atmosphere LWR is missing energy in the spectra of the GHGs. "

"Spectroscopy shows that over time more and more IR is being blocked from escaping to space, heating the planet. "

It seems NASA has closed for Easter.
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Reply #43 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 8:55pm
 
No, but a warmer surface does emit more IR.

You have not shown that all IR escaped to space.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #44 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 9:31pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 8:55pm:
No, but a warmer surface does emit more IR.



And?

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 8:55pm:
You have not shown that all IR escaped to space.



I don't need to petal your views are well known. Less IR escaping to space. And it has not decreased.
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Reply #45 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 9:54pm
 
But more is emitted because the surface has warmed. So some more will escape.

But you have not shown what you said, that CERES showed ALL IR escapes to space.

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Reply #46 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 10:01pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 9:54pm:
But you have not shown what you said, that CERES showed ALL IR escapes to space.



That's because nowhere did I say ALL IR escapes to space from CERES plots or anywhere else? Want to make up another lie? Roll Eyes
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Reply #47 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:30pm
 
You did say that, else you acknowledge AGW.

Quote:
And of course the Ceres OLR shows no sign of any heat being trapped.


And od course CERES says no such thing. Why not post that graph, the earth’s energy budget, that you really like?
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #48 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:41pm
 
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Reply #49 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:32am
 
Salby is a grifter.

Globe is warming, Ajax, warming when it should be cooling and we are causing it.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #50 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 8:41am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:32am:
Salby is a grifter.

Globe is warming, Ajax, warming when it should be cooling and we are causing it.


Funny I was thinking the same about you...LOL...... Kiss

Anyway Salby explains the Earth's energy budget very well.

You should watch it....... Smiley

I agree the Earth has warmed up since the year or thereabouts 1880 coming out of the little ice age.

It remains to be seen if we will cool, during the next few years we will know.

Cycles of the Earth's climate.


...

Zoomed in


...

Quote:
The glacial cycle averages about 100,000 years, consisting of about 90,000 years of the glacial period, when mile-thick continental glaciers blanketed much of the Northern and Southern Hemispheres including Canada, Russia, Northern Europe and Northern USA, and about 10,000 years of interglacial, the warm period of the present.

Earth is now 11,500 years into the current warm interglacial, and our planet may re-enter the glacial period at any time.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/01/the-next-great-extinction-event-will-not-...

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Reply #51 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 11:02am
 
This is Holocene Optimum, Warmn Periods etc:

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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #52 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 11:07am
 
Monk - don't you know how to resize pictures?
You fool.


...
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Reply #53 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 11:11am
 
Why resize, idiot? Look in detail. D’uh!
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #54 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 11:29am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 11:11am:
Why resize, idiot? Look in detail. D’uh!



The pic was larger than full HD  1920 x 1080.    Roll Eyes
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #55 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 11:44am
 
The Marcott et al 2013 paper has been compared to previous studies and found to be faulty.

Like I have said before too many scientists have proved the LIA and MWP in too many studies/papers in too many countries around the world.

Basically Marcott et al 2013 is another hockey stick......FAIL

...

Figure 1. Comparison of the Marcott et al. temperature curve (A); the Greenland GISP2 temperature curve of Alley (2000) based on data from Cuffy and Clow (1997) (B); Greenland GISP2 oxygen isotope ratios (delta 18O) from ice core data measured by Stuiver and Grootes (1997)(C); and temperature reconstruction from Chinese tree rings (D) (Liu et al., 2011).



Quote:
The Marcott et al. curve shows a nearly vertical line for recent warming, which they claim puts present temperatures above any in the past 4,000years.

This nearly vertical part of their curve apparently comes not from their proxy data, but is pasted on from elsewhere and plays a central role in their contention that present temperatures and the rate of warming are ‘unprecedented in the past 4,000 years.’ Let’s test both of these assertions against ice-core and global glacial data.

Both the Greenland GISP2 temperature curve (Figure 1B) and the oxygen isotope curve (Figure 1C) clearly show that except for the Little Ice Age and Dark Ages Cool Period, temperatures for all of the past 4,000 years have been warmer than the end of the ice core (1950 AD).

The Medieval Warm Period was 1.1° C warmer than the top of the core (1950) and at least four other warm periods of equal magnitude occurred in the past 4,000 years; four other warm periods were ~1.3°C warmer; two other warm period were 1.8-2.0°C warmer; and one warm period was 2.8°C warmer. At least a dozen periods more than 1°C warmer than 1950 occurred, clearly contradicting the Marcott et al. conclusions.

The rest here

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/validity-of-marcott-et-al-part-ii/

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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #56 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 11:49am
 
Hhhmmm I don't know JV whether you truly believe this nonsense or you are a wolf in sheeps clothing trying to scare people into believing.


Many studies confirm this graph                                Marcott graph looks like and smells like a hockey stick
...

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/08/marcott-et-al-claim-of-unprecedented-warm...
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Reply #57 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:00pm
 
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Reply #58 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:06pm
 
Is a mini-ice age coming in 2030, and does the sun have two dynamos?


...


Quote:
Is the Sun driven by two dynamos, each running on slightly different 11 year cycles?

Many people are talking about a new forecast of a mini-ice age (which seems to be an increasingly popular thing to predict.)

This one comes from a paper published last year but presented at the Royal Astronomical Society last week.

Shepard, Zharkov and Zharkova may have gotten us a step closer to understanding why the solar cycle varies in length from 8 to 14 years. Since the level of solar activity correlates with both the the length of the current solar cycle and the surface temperatures on Earth one solar cycle later (the notch-delay theory, and see the work of David Archibald),  it may make it possible to predict the climate decades in advance.

(With the caveat that this new study is still a model, correlation is not causation, etc.)

One of the better descriptions comes from Astronomy Now.

The Sun, like all stars, is a large nuclear fusion reactor that generates powerful magnetic fields, similar to a dynamo. The model developed by Zharkova’s team suggests there are two dynamos at work in the Sun; one close to the surface and one deep within the convection zone.

They found this dual dynamo system could explain aspects of the solar cycle with much greater accuracy than before — possibly leading to enhanced predictions of future solar behaviour. “We found magnetic wave components appearing in pairs; originating in two different layers in the Sun’s interior.

They both have a frequency of approximately 11 years, although this frequency is slightly different [for both] and they are offset in time,” says Zharkova.

The two magnetic waves either reinforce one another to produce high activity or cancel out to create lull periods.

With the Sun, we struggle for good data. Shepard et al only have three sunspot cycles of magnetic field data to go on but used the longer sunspot records as well.

The rest here,

https://joannenova.com.au/2015/07/is-a-mini-ice-age-coming-in-2030-and-does-the-...

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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #59 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:16pm
 
Hi Ajax,
don't waste your time -

Monk doesn't know.
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Reply #60 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:19pm
 
Booby doesn’t know the stupid Zharkova paper was withdrawn from publication! Her model could not hindcast known past GSMs.

The globe is warming at the rate of 0.2°C, according to both satellite (RSS for one) and terrestrial observations.

There is also no evidence that the sun is in a GSM and Booby has never either shown evidence that the sun is in a GSM or admit that the sun is not in a GSM. A GSM would cause global cooling of 0.2°C, meaning AGW would wipe out that cooling inside a decade.

But Booby does not know this. He is an idiot pure and simple, thinks weather = climate and accepts, without checking (despite his signature) that the sun is in a GSM when it is not.

Other people are calling Booby an idiot, not just me.
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Reply #61 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:28pm
 
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

The idiot has copied Ajax’s post here to the Dubyne MRB. Alzheimer's Booby? You would have posted that ripe old heap of fish entrails before.

Her paper was withdrawn, her model did not work. So much for needing extraordinary evidence, Booby never uses evidence at all!  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #62 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:31pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2021 at 11:30pm:
You did say that, else you acknowledge AGW.

Quote:
And of course the Ceres OLR shows no sign of any heat being trapped.





Note nothing there about ALL heat being trapped; that was your statement petal.

And yet you can't provide evidence. You really are a maroon. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Reply #63 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:36pm
 
No, you said all heat escaped and that CERES supported that. It doesn’t of course—the globe is still warming and CO2 is still increasing.

Why not show the picture of the earths radiation budget? You seem reluctant for some reason?
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #64 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 1:54pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:36pm:
No, you said all heat escaped and that CERES supported that


You really are a liar; aren't you. There is no help for you.

I searched and found quotes from you from 2017 and you can't even search this thread? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 12:36pm:
Why not show the picture of the earths radiation budget? You seem reluctant for some reason?



No petal. Now they reckon they know the uncertainty to 0.9W/m2. Modelled of course. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

...


Figure 1

Schematic flow of energy within the Earth's climate system, as determined from a combination of satellite measurements (ERBE, CERES) (Harrison et al. 1990; Wielicki et al. 1996) and model reanalyses (Trenberth et al. 2009; Kim and Ramanathan, 2012; Stephens et al. 2012; Wild et al. 2013). Solar radiative fluxes are shown on the left (in blue online) and infrared fluxes on the right (salmon pink online); convective and latent heat fluxes are in the centre (in orange and green online). The horizontal dashed line represents the planetary surface. Figures quoted here were based on those obtained by Wild et al. (2013) and adapted for the IPCC AR5 report (IPCC, 2013).


And the winner is ?  'Cos we know the models are accurate  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Reply #65 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:16pm
 
The stone age didn't end because they ran outta stones, technology moved us forward and the same will happen here, because the big carbon producers are not going to stop their use of coal and oil,
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Reply #66 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:19pm
 
Lee’s diagram shows radiation coming back to the surface.

Guess CERES does NOT show all IR sailing out to space thereby cooling it.

lee has once again proved AGW.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #67 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:25pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:19pm:
Lee’s diagram shows radiation coming back to the surface.



And? If we didn't we would freeze? Roll Eyes

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:19pm:
Guess CERES does NOT show all IR sailing out to space thereby cooling it.



And I never said it did Liar.

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:19pm:
lee has once again proved AGW.



Rubbish.  It merely proves that we have a livable planet. Roll Eyes

BTW - I found that Trenberth Diagram.

...

I was wrong the uncertainty is only 17W/m2. And they can find about .5W/m2 in other papers.

Just think if their was no imbalance we wouldn't have climate. Wink
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #68 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:28pm
 
Retraction of the Zharkova et al paper:

Quote:
Heavily criticized paper blaming the sun for global warming is retracted


https://retractionwatch.com/2020/03/04/heavily-criticized-paper-blaming-the-sun-...

Poor Booby! The idiot said I didn’t know. Guess I do and Booby doesn’t. What you expect from an idiot.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #69 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:39pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:25pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:19pm:
Lee’s diagram shows radiation coming back to the surface.



And? If we didn't we would freeze? Roll Eyes

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:19pm:
Guess CERES does NOT show all IR sailing out to space thereby cooling it.



And I never said it did Liar.

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:19pm:
lee has once again proved AGW.



Rubbish.  It merely proves that we have a livable planet. Roll Eyes

BTW - I found that Trenberth Diagram.

https://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/stephens2.gif

I was wrong the uncertainty is only 17W/m2. And they can find about .5W/m2 in other papers.

Just think if their was no imbalance we wouldn't have climate. Wink


If CO2 and H2O didn’t exist here night time temperatures would go down to -173°C, just like the moon. (Well, not quite as low, we do have an atmosphere but pretty close.) Without the levels of CO2 and consequent H2O of the preindustrial age the average global temperature would have been -18°C instead of the +15°C it was back then. The science of shortwave incoming radiation, warming of the surface, emission of IR, capture of IR by GHGs is sound.

Furthermore, the atmosphere is not saturated with respect to carbon: with more CO2 the spectral lines widen and the height where the long wave IR is released to space increases with increases in CO2. At these atmospheric heights water vapor has largely condensed out and CO2 does the emitting. It is cold up there, hard to release IR and the surface warms more.


This is what, the third merry-go-round about AGW? I am now only interested in researching and discussing the effect of AGW on critters and the plants, predators and diseases of critters or the diseases and other ecological harm the effect of AGW on critters brings.

I cannot do that until I have been assured that posts of mine will not get moved from Critters and Gardens just because they mention or discuss something about AGW.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #70 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:43pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:28pm:
Retraction of the Zharkova et al paper:

Quote:
Heavily criticized paper blaming the sun for global warming is retracted


https://retractionwatch.com/2020/03/04/heavily-criticized-paper-blaming-the-sun-
...



Criticised and withdrawn. What were the peer-reviewers doing? It was presented to Nature.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #71 - Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:47pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:39pm:
Furthermore, the atmosphere is not saturated with respect to carbon: with more CO2 the spectral lines widen and the height where the long wave IR is released to space increases with increases in CO2.



That's not what you have been saying. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:39pm:
This is what, the third merry-go-round about AGW? I am now only interested in researching and discussing the effect of AGW on critters and the plants, predators and diseases of critters or the diseases and other ecological harm the effect of AGW on critters brings.


Because you are a failure.

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2021 at 2:39pm:
I cannot do that until I have been assured that posts of mine will not get moved from Critters and Gardens just because they mention or discuss something about AGW.



Your own little circle jerk world where anyone who criticises aspects is banned. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #72 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 9:07am
 
Fair enough the Zharkova paper was withdrawn, at least she had the decency to do so.

Unlike Mann, when his hockey stick was thrown under the bus he should have withdrawn it like all other scientists do when their hypothesis / theory is proved wrong.

Anyway astronomers like Scafetta, West etc etc do say that we are headed for cooling.

Some good reading here about sun spots,

https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2020/04/SolarCycle25.pdf
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #73 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 10:18am
 
Ajax, I am sorry but the Mann hockey stick has NOT been refuted. Several other studies have confirmed it. The latest is a paleoclimate study that has pushed back the climate record to 24,000 years before now. It too includes a hockey stick.

It is inevitable: the declining Milankovitch Cycle caused some cooling until the increasing amount of CO2 started the rise in temperatures.

We know the mechanism: the sun warms the earth, the surface emits IR which if it reached space would cool the globe, GHG molecules increasingly absorb IR and spread the energy to the nitrogen molecules which move faster because of it. This is heat and is how AGW works.

Without GHG molecules in the air the world would have a mean temperature of -18°C! Now we have way too much GHGs in the atmosphere and so we have warmed.

This nonsense about ice age coming just ignores how much we have warmed and how little even the Maunder cooled global temperatures. No mini ice age is going to happen as AGW just keeps on warming the globe.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #74 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:01pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 10:18am:
The latest is a paleoclimate study that has pushed back the climate record to 24,000 years before now. It too includes a hockey stick.



From the paper -
"In each iteration, we produce a surrogate 24 ka GMST time series by6411) normal random sampling of temperature for each 200-yr interval"

Too funny. Remember what Marcott said about his 120 Years? "Not statistically significant". Wink
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #75 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:16pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 10:18am:
We know the mechanism: the sun warms the earth, the surface emits IR which if it reached space would cool the globe, GHG molecules increasingly absorb IR and spread the energy to the nitrogen molecules which move faster because of it. This is heat and is how AGW works.



First the CO2 molecules  (410 ppm) have to be in close proximity to spread this (heat). Wink

Also I think you mean N2O. That's at 0.3 ppm. So we have 410ppm vainly chasing 0.3ppm.

If it were CO2 to N2 then the opposite reaction occurs as well and no net  heat transfer.
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #76 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:17pm
 
Ajax, the GWPF—the Global Warming Policy Forum—is a bunch of deniers. They accepted, lapped up, Zharkova’s faulty paper.

Ajax, without CO2 and H2O the globe would have an average temperature of -18°C. Are you not glad the average global temperature is +15°C?

Given that, is it not likely more CO2 would drive more warming?
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Re: The “Climate Skeptics” thread in the Dubyne MRB
Reply #77 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:24pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:17pm:
Ajax, the GWPF—the Global Warming Policy Forum—is a bunch of deniers. They accepted, lapped up, Zharkova’s faulty paper.



So did Nature's Science. Before it got criticised and they folded. I guess they are deniers who can be pressured into backtracking. Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 4th, 2021 at 2:17pm:
Ajax, without CO2 and H2O the globe would have an average temperature of -18°C. Are you not glad the average global temperature is +15°C?

Given that, is it not likely more CO2 would drive more warming?


Wow how to conflate two issues. Grin Grin Grin Grin  4% H20 to 410ppm CO2?
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