Australian Politics Forum - Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #165 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:29am

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:27am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:18am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:10am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:59am:

I believe he is attempting to move towards expanding universal healthcare... Sort of a (very) mild for of democratic socialism by stealth... A soft-footed FDR if you will. Do you agree?

look I agree, but I dont think he will be successful. Whatever he tries they will bring it down, Obama tried healthcare reform and hes lucky he didnt get assassinated. I hope Biden has the balls to stick with it because not much will be accomplished in that regard in his lifetime in my opinion.
But what do you think?

I think that if ordinary Americans woke up one day and realised there was a massive reduction in their health care insurance with the peace of mind knowing that, say, mothers / wives didn't have to sell the family house and everything they have to pay for breast cancer treatment, they'd be loving it. Which is why I think Biden will implement it, if he can, by stealth.

I dont agree, the average American is so indoctrinated against socialism that they will go home to die rather than embrace what they consider to be a socialist system.

OK. We'll have to leave that one for history to decide.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #166 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:33am

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:22am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:13am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:06am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:52am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:42am:

Democratic socialism has succeeded, the wealthiest countries in
the world all have democratic socialist governments, Australia included, but the Americans have been sold the fear of the socialist boogeyman, keeps them under control and the 30 percent of the population who live in abject poverty believe it too. Propaganda is a marvellous thing and the vested interests in the US would put Goebbels to shame.

Apologies, I was referring to democratic socialism succeeding in South America.

The US appears to be blissfully unaware of Australian democratic socialism and quite happy forming strong alliances with us, so I guess the US, unconsciously at least, appears to have no problem with it.

Also, Canada is another example (and right on the doorstep of the US). How does the US reconcile these paradoxical responses between Australia/Canada and South America?

huge disconnect between US politiicans and the average Joe. Its kind of strange if you travel to the US, really friendly but to the average person there nothing exists outside the US. They ask you where you are from and they respond very favourably but couldnt pick your country out on a map. The average American isnt stupid, just ignorant. They really do not care what happens outside the US, they have zero interest in world politics. But, they do deride Canadians I notice, and its not like NZ Aust rivalry, its like , "the Canadians are pussies because they are polite and have a socialist government", the mere mention of anything left wing seems to send them into a blind rage.

But there's never been a serious, modern political drive to overthrow a Canadian government (if you don't count the pre-WW2 US half-baked plans for an invasion of Canada because it perceived the British Empire at that time to be an existential threat to the US).

So why the obsession with South American democratic socialism?

The US has a land border with Mexico. The domino theory remember? And Canadians although different have a similar culture. But you know this, you are not the typical dumb fker who posts on Ozpol so I wonder why you asking these questions.

Is it a sense of cultural/racial superiority? The Anglophones against Hispanics?

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rhino

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #167 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:40am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:29am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:27am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:18am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:10am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:59am:

I believe he is attempting to move towards expanding universal healthcare... Sort of a (very) mild for of democratic socialism by stealth... A soft-footed FDR if you will. Do you agree?

look I agree, but I dont think he will be successful. Whatever he tries they will bring it down, Obama tried healthcare reform and hes lucky he didnt get assassinated. I hope Biden has the balls to stick with it because not much will be accomplished in that regard in his lifetime in my opinion.
But what do you think?

I think that if ordinary Americans woke up one day and realised there was a massive reduction in their health care insurance with the peace of mind knowing that, say, mothers / wives didn't have to sell the family house and everything they have to pay for breast cancer treatment, they'd be loving it. Which is why I think Biden will implement it, if he can, by stealth.

I dont agree, the average American is so indoctrinated against socialism that they will go home to die rather than embrace what they consider to be a socialist system.

OK. We'll have to leave that one for history to decide.

Fair enough, I just think sometimes that we dont understand how different Americans are to us. Maybe we think we do because we are saturated with American media. 22 children die every day from gun violence in the US, that would not be tolerated here for one day but they dont care. Bizarre people.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #168 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:55am

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:40am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:29am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:27am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:18am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:10am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:59am:

I believe he is attempting to move towards expanding universal healthcare... Sort of a (very) mild for of democratic socialism by stealth... A soft-footed FDR if you will. Do you agree?

look I agree, but I dont think he will be successful. Whatever he tries they will bring it down, Obama tried healthcare reform and hes lucky he didnt get assassinated. I hope Biden has the balls to stick with it because not much will be accomplished in that regard in his lifetime in my opinion.
But what do you think?

I think that if ordinary Americans woke up one day and realised there was a massive reduction in their health care insurance with the peace of mind knowing that, say, mothers / wives didn't have to sell the family house and everything they have to pay for breast cancer treatment, they'd be loving it. Which is why I think Biden will implement it, if he can, by stealth.

I dont agree, the average American is so indoctrinated against socialism that they will go home to die rather than embrace what they consider to be a socialist system.

OK. We'll have to leave that one for history to decide.

Fair enough, I just think sometimes that we dont understand how different Americans are to us. Maybe we think we do because we are saturated with American media. 22 children die every day from gun violence in the US, that would not be tolerated here for one day but they dont care. Bizarre people.

Yes.

Just on that, though, there is the issue of Americans travelling to Canada and Mexico for cheap pharmaceuticals.

Isn't that somewhat antithetical to the notion that Americans wouldn't want cheap healthcare?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #169 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 9:32am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:33am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:22am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:13am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:06am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:52am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:42am:

Democratic socialism has succeeded, the wealthiest countries in
the world all have democratic socialist governments, Australia included, but the Americans have been sold the fear of the socialist boogeyman, keeps them under control and the 30 percent of the population who live in abject poverty believe it too. Propaganda is a marvellous thing and the vested interests in the US would put Goebbels to shame.

Apologies, I was referring to democratic socialism succeeding in South America.

The US appears to be blissfully unaware of Australian democratic socialism and quite happy forming strong alliances with us, so I guess the US, unconsciously at least, appears to have no problem with it.

Also, Canada is another example (and right on the doorstep of the US). How does the US reconcile these paradoxical responses between Australia/Canada and South America?

huge disconnect between US politiicans and the average Joe. Its kind of strange if you travel to the US, really friendly but to the average person there nothing exists outside the US. They ask you where you are from and they respond very favourably but couldnt pick your country out on a map. The average American isnt stupid, just ignorant. They really do not care what happens outside the US, they have zero interest in world politics. But, they do deride Canadians I notice, and its not like NZ Aust rivalry, its like , "the Canadians are pussies because they are polite and have a socialist government", the mere mention of anything left wing seems to send them into a blind rage.

But there's never been a serious, modern political drive to overthrow a Canadian government (if you don't count the pre-WW2 US half-baked plans for an invasion of Canada because it perceived the British Empire at that time to be an existential threat to the US).

So why the obsession with South American democratic socialism?

The US has a land border with Mexico. The domino theory remember? And Canadians although different have a similar culture. But you know this, you are not the typical dumb fker who posts on Ozpol so I wonder why you asking these questions.

Is it a sense of cultural/racial superiority? The Anglophones against Hispanics?

Or has the Monroe Doctrine been applied to 20th+ century European interference in the western hemisphere (e.g. the USSR in the 20th century)?

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Frank

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #170 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 9:40am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:27am:

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:20am:

A social safety network - welfare - is not socialism. It's capitalism caring because it can afford to.

Well, there is the problem of the (very capitalist) big pharma not liking cheap healthcare (i.e. cheap pharmaceuticals).

Haven't they been bitching about Australia's PBS for years with regard to Australia's allowing development of pharmaceutical generics by not recognising patents after a few years?

So pulling them in line is socialism?

Regulated capitalism is not socialism.

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Frank

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #171 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 9:50am

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:24am:

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:20am:

Irhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:42am:

Democratic socialism has succeeded, the wealthiest countries in
the world all have democratic socialist governments, Australia included, but the Americans have been sold the fear of the socialist boogeyman, keeps them under control and the 30 percent of the population who live in abject poverty believe it too. Propaganda is a marvellous thing and the vested interests in the US would put Goebbels to shame.

Complete bollocks. Complete ignorant bollocks.

The cornerstine of socialism is the social, ie collective, ownership of the means of production : land, resources, factories, distribution networks, banks, IT companies, etc. None of these are owned collectively, socially, in the wealthiest countries.

A social safety network - welfare - is not socialism. It's capitalism caring because it can afford to. That's how a lot of things like schools, hospitals, aged care, research, universities, mutual societies started.

Just look up democratic socialism before you embarrass yourself further.

It's Orwellian double speak for socialism, with the lie of 'democratic' as the sugar coating.

All socialist dictatorships call themselves 'democratic' or the 'people's'. One of the surest signs of a grusome dictatorship, from the CCCP, DDR to Chine and Nth Korea.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #172 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 10:18am

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 9:40am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:27am:

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:20am:

A social safety network - welfare - is not socialism. It's capitalism caring because it can afford to.

Well, there is the problem of the (very capitalist) big pharma not liking cheap healthcare (i.e. cheap pharmaceuticals).

Haven't they been bitching about Australia's PBS for years with regard to Australia's allowing development of pharmaceutical generics by not recognising patents after a few years?

So pulling them in line is socialism?

Regulated capitalism is not socialism.

Do you not think that curtailing capitalism for the greater good of the people could be considered a form of (small s) socialism?

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« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2021 at 10:25am by NorthOfNorth »

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #173 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 10:21am

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 9:50am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:24am:

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:20am:

Irhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:42am:

Democratic socialism has succeeded, the wealthiest countries in
the world all have democratic socialist governments, Australia included, but the Americans have been sold the fear of the socialist boogeyman, keeps them under control and the 30 percent of the population who live in abject poverty believe it too. Propaganda is a marvellous thing and the vested interests in the US would put Goebbels to shame.

Complete bollocks. Complete ignorant bollocks.

The cornerstine of socialism is the social, ie collective, ownership of the means of production : land, resources, factories, distribution networks, banks, IT companies, etc. None of these are owned collectively, socially, in the wealthiest countries.

A social safety network - welfare - is not socialism. It's capitalism caring because it can afford to. That's how a lot of things like schools, hospitals, aged care, research, universities, mutual societies started.

Just look up democratic socialism before you embarrass yourself further.

It's Orwellian double speak for socialism, with the lie of 'democratic' as the sugar coating.

All socialist dictatorships call themselves 'democratic' or the 'people's'. One of the surest signs of a grusome dictatorship, from the CCCP, DDR to Chine and Nth Korea.

The Democratic Republic of Congo?

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tickleandrose

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #174 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 10:36am

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 9:50am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:24am:

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:20am:

Irhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:42am:

Democratic socialism has succeeded, the wealthiest countries in
the world all have democratic socialist governments, Australia included, but the Americans have been sold the fear of the socialist boogeyman, keeps them under control and the 30 percent of the population who live in abject poverty believe it too. Propaganda is a marvellous thing and the vested interests in the US would put Goebbels to shame.

Complete bollocks. Complete ignorant bollocks.

The cornerstine of socialism is the social, ie collective, ownership of the means of production : land, resources, factories, distribution networks, banks, IT companies, etc. None of these are owned collectively, socially, in the wealthiest countries.

A social safety network - welfare - is not socialism. It's capitalism caring because it can afford to. That's how a lot of things like schools, hospitals, aged care, research, universities, mutual societies started.

Just look up democratic socialism before you embarrass yourself further.

It's Orwellian double speak for socialism, with the lie of 'democratic' as the sugar coating.

All socialist dictatorships call themselves 'democratic' or the 'people's'. One of the surest signs of a grusome dictatorship, from the CCCP, DDR to Chine and Nth Korea.

Frank, there is difference between socialism under a democratic system, and socialism under an authoritarian system.

In democratic socialism, it is about welfare, and redistribution of tax revenue. However, most of the products + labor are privately owned.

Whereas, in an authoritarian socialist system that you are referring to - everything produced belongs to the state, and the state (or party in power) distribute the wealth.

They are two entirely different concepts. In the USA, the right wing media loves to mix up the two, putting socialism into one basket.

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rhino

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #175 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 10:46am

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 9:50am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:24am:

Frank wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 1:20am:

Irhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:42am:

Democratic socialism has succeeded, the wealthiest countries in
the world all have democratic socialist governments, Australia included, but the Americans have been sold the fear of the socialist boogeyman, keeps them under control and the 30 percent of the population who live in abject poverty believe it too. Propaganda is a marvellous thing and the vested interests in the US would put Goebbels to shame.

Complete bollocks. Complete ignorant bollocks.

The cornerstine of socialism is the social, ie collective, ownership of the means of production : land, resources, factories, distribution networks, banks, IT companies, etc. None of these are owned collectively, socially, in the wealthiest countries.

A social safety network - welfare - is not socialism. It's capitalism caring because it can afford to. That's how a lot of things like schools, hospitals, aged care, research, universities, mutual societies started.

Just look up democratic socialism before you embarrass yourself further.

It's Orwellian double speak for socialism, with the lie of 'democratic' as the sugar coating.

All socialist dictatorships call themselves 'democratic' or the 'people's'. One of the surest signs of a grusome dictatorship, from the CCCP, DDR to Chine and Nth Korea.

Its the term for the political system we and many other countries live under. If you dont know something then look it up-.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #176 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 10:46am

tickleandrose wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 10:36am:

They are two entirely different concepts. In the USA, the right wing media loves to mix up the two, putting socialism into one basket.

Very true...

Something left-leaning liberals in the US wring their hands over...

I don't think the average American consciously conflates the two. I think, after 45 years of cold war, they frankly don't know the difference.

With authoritarian 'socialism', in countries where it has been installed as the sole political force, the 'socialist' cause is quietly retired and the system quickly degenerates into what it really is: a tyranny; as with the CCP in China.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #177 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 2:14pm

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 11:39pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 11:36pm:

Much ignorance in this thread, suggest you lot study history,. It was a choice of either Castro or the American Mafia using Bastista as a figurehead running Cuba. Which is why the US got all out of shape when Castro prevailed.

And American Sugar interests... Roll Eyes

The Mafia ran the American sugar interests.

To a certain extent yes but the demand for sugar came from the US populace... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #178 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 2:15pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:25am:

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 11:39pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 11:36pm:

Much ignorance in this thread, suggest you lot study history,. It was a choice of either Castro or the American Mafia using Bastista as a figurehead running Cuba. Which is why the US got all out of shape when Castro prevailed.

And American Sugar interests... Roll Eyes

The Mafia ran the American sugar interests.

OK. Anything about the US determination to ensure that socialism would not prevail in South America?

Monroe Doctrine... Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2021 at 2:31pm by Brian Ross »

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Xinjiang conspiracy hidden in an old US video
Reply #179 - Apr 7^th, 2021 at 2:17pm

rhino wrote on Apr 7^th, 2021 at 12:25am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 11:44pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 6^th, 2021 at 11:36pm:

Much ignorance in this thread, suggest you lot study history,. It was a choice of either Castro or the American Mafia using Bastista as a figurehead running Cuba. Which is why the US got all out of shape when Castro prevailed.

Feel free to summarise the many reasons the US got all out of shape...

many reasons? Only one really. The mafia who were in bed with the US government at the time were effectively running Cuba with Batista as a figurehead. They never expected Castro to kick them out when he gained power, they thought it would be business as usual with just another corrupt dictator. The Cuban missile crisis was just theatre. Kennedy agreed not to invade if they removed the missiles.

Batista was not "kicked out". He decided to leave of his own accord. He had a last toast of Champagne and vacated Havana of his own accord. The Fidelistas were not that successful as a revolutionary force... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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