Australian Politics Forum - This is how the lie really started.

Ayn Marx

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #30 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 9:26am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2021 at 8:37pm:

Ordinary, everyday, peaceful, law-abiding, mainstream Muslims don't fit your description of them at all. Funny that, hey?

Not sure funny is the correct term. Can I suggest dishonest? If you acquaint yourself with the hate filled passages in the Koran listing how infidels should be treated you need to ask why these law-abiding, peaceful, mainstream Muslims never object to such blood thirsty urgings. Granted similar encouragement to religious violence can easily be found in the Bible but at least most christians have managed to criticise such passages.

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Brian Ross

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #31 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 10:05am

Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 9:26am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2021 at 8:37pm:

Ordinary, everyday, peaceful, law-abiding, mainstream Muslims don't fit your description of them at all. Funny that, hey?

Not sure funny is the correct term. Can I suggest dishonest? If you acquaint yourself with the hate filled passages in the Koran listing how infidels should be treated you need to ask why these law-abiding, peaceful, mainstream Muslims never object to such blood thirsty urgings. Granted similar encouragement to religious violence can easily be found in the Bible but at least most christians have managed to criticise such passages.

The passages remain in the Bible, filling those who believe what is written with hate and bile towards non-Christians. We see it everyday in the postings from Moses, Yadda, Soren, etc. Some Muslims believe what they read, most just ignore them and get on with being ordinary, everyday, moderate, peaceful, law-abiding Muslims. Those that believe that stuff become Islamists. Roll Eyes

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Ayn Marx

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #32 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 10:54am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 10:05am:

Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 9:26am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2021 at 8:37pm:

Ordinary, everyday, peaceful, law-abiding, mainstream Muslims don't fit your description of them at all. Funny that, hey?

Not sure funny is the correct term. Can I suggest dishonest? If you acquaint yourself with the hate filled passages in the Koran listing how infidels should be treated you need to ask why these law-abiding, peaceful, mainstream Muslims never object to such blood thirsty urgings. Granted similar encouragement to religious violence can easily be found in the Bible but at least most christians have managed to criticise such passages.

The passages remain in the Bible, filling those who believe what is written with hate and bile towards non-Christians. We see it everyday in the postings from Moses, Yadda, Soren, etc. Some Muslims believe what they read, most just ignore them and get on with being ordinary, everyday, moderate, peaceful, law-abiding Muslims. Those that believe that stuff become Islamists. Roll Eyes

How very convenient for Muslims to ignore large passages of violence inducing hatred whilst continuing to view the Koran as a ‘Holy' text. Yes, the ravings of Moses, Yadda et al may be spiritually neanderthal but there are literally thousands of today’s biblical scholars who openly criticise many of the passages in the Bible and nobody from any church has even suggested they be stoned to death. Try that anywhere in the Middle East.
Central to these issues is the delusional concept any text can be claimed to be ’The Word of God’.

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Brian Ross

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #33 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 11:41am

Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 10:54am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 10:05am:

Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 9:26am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2021 at 8:37pm:

Ordinary, everyday, peaceful, law-abiding, mainstream Muslims don't fit your description of them at all. Funny that, hey?

Not sure funny is the correct term. Can I suggest dishonest? If you acquaint yourself with the hate filled passages in the Koran listing how infidels should be treated you need to ask why these law-abiding, peaceful, mainstream Muslims never object to such blood thirsty urgings. Granted similar encouragement to religious violence can easily be found in the Bible but at least most christians have managed to criticise such passages.

The passages remain in the Bible, filling those who believe what is written with hate and bile towards non-Christians. We see it everyday in the postings from Moses, Yadda, Soren, etc. Some Muslims believe what they read, most just ignore them and get on with being ordinary, everyday, moderate, peaceful, law-abiding Muslims. Those that believe that stuff become Islamists. Roll Eyes

How very convenient for Muslims to ignore large passages of violence inducing hatred whilst continuing to view the Koran as a ‘Holy' text. Yes, the ravings of Moses, Yadda et al may be spiritually neanderthal but there are literally thousands of today’s biblical scholars who openly criticise many of the passages in the Bible and nobody from any church has even suggested they be stoned to death. Try that anywhere in the Middle East.
Central to these issues is the delusional concept any text can be claimed to be ’The Word of God’.

The passages remain there, in the Bible, something undeniable. The passages remain in the Q'ran again something that is undeniable. As to how many Bibiblical scholars criticise those passages, I have no idea and I have done a Doctor of Divinity degree. Yes, some do, most don't. Most just ignore them. I am sure that is the same amongst most Muslim theologians as well. What proportion of Muslims just skim over them? I have no idea. Any guess is just a guess. How many Muslims actually believe and undertake those passages as being "the undeniable word of God," again I have no idea and again, any guess is just a guess. Roll Eyes

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Ayn Marx

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #34 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 12:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 11:41am:

[quote author=Ayn_Marx link=1616215283/32#32 date=1616460877]
The passages remain there, in the Bible, something undeniable. The passages remain in the Q'ran again something that is undeniable. As to how many Bibiblical scholars criticise those passages, I have no idea and I have done a Doctor of Divinity degree. Yes, some do, most don't. Most just ignore them. I am sure that is the same amongst most Muslim theologians as well. What proportion of Muslims just skim over them? I have no idea. Any guess is just a guess. How many Muslims actually believe and undertake those passages as being "the undeniable word of God," again I have no idea and again, any guess is just a guess. Roll Eyes

Congratulations on having obtained a Doctor of Divinity degree. Sadly today that’s absolutely no guarantee of intellectual respectability. You could have some catching up to do. May I suggest you obtain a copy of 'Theology & Biblical Studies' published bi-annually by Bloomsbury Press?

From a post on DEGREE INFO forum <https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/what-is-the-best-or-worst-seminary-to-attend.51317/>

Depends. Do they offer a legitimate, rigorous education commensurate with the labels they attach to their degrees? Do they have a faculty with excellent academic credentials?

I don't even have a problem with a religious institution offering certifications that would not qualify as legitimate academic degrees to train up people for their churches. They can do whatever they want, why would I care? The problem is when they make their educations out to be something they're not, calling light correspondence courses M.Divs or Th.Ds or the like. Degree titles have a meaning independent of any given educational institution, and that's why there are standards established by legitimate accrediting bodies. When an institution like Andersonville plays dishonest games with this, they become worse than the most ugly of secular mills, because "in the name of God" they're misleading a lot of people and producing unqualified people allegedly capable of filling ministry positions. And if a person claims "Well, the good Lord qualified me!", I'll answer "Then why are you seeking validation of this qualification by the Creator of the Universe from a cheap and tawdry human-made correspondence mill?"

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« Last Edit: Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 12:39pm by Ayn Marx »

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Yadda

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #35 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 12:34pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 10:05am:

Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 9:26am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2021 at 8:37pm:

Ordinary, everyday, peaceful, law-abiding, mainstream Muslims don't fit your description of them at all. Funny that, hey?

Not sure funny is the correct term. Can I suggest dishonest? If you acquaint yourself with the hate filled passages in the Koran listing how infidels should be treated you need to ask why these law-abiding, peaceful, mainstream Muslims never object to such blood thirsty urgings. Granted similar encouragement to religious violence can easily be found in the Bible but at least most christians have managed to criticise such passages.

The passages remain in the Bible, filling those who believe what is written with hate and bile towards non-Christians.

We see it everyday in the postings from Moses, Yadda, Soren, etc. Some Muslims believe what they read, most just ignore them and get on with being ordinary, everyday, moderate, peaceful, law-abiding Muslims. Those that believe that stuff become Islamists. Roll Eyes

What brian claims [above, about the bible] is a blatant bare faced lie.

If you doubt me, ....then compare these texts, on how the Koran commands its followers to treat strangers [disbelievers],
compared to how the God of Israel commands His followers [in the Torah, God's laws] to treat strangers [strangers living among the ancient Israelite's around 3,400 years ago].

------ >

in this post....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1612390579/5#5

brian knows all of this [above].

He, is a 'Doctor of Divinity'.

And yet, you can tell, from what he repeatedly posts on OzPol, that brian remains a dissembler [aka, a BIG FAT LIAR AND DECEIVER].

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« Last Edit: Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 1:29pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #36 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 3:27pm

I suppose the hate being cited in the Bible is the Mosaic law of the O.T.

Why do the anti-Christian brigade all try to tap dance around the fact that the Mosaic law was done away with 2021 years ago?

Quote:

The first five books of the Bible are sometimes called the Pentateuch which means “five books.” They are also known as the books of the law because they contain the laws and instruction given by the Lord through Moses to the people of Israel. These books were written by Moses, except for the last portion of Deuteronomy because it tells about the death of Moses. These five books lay the foundation for the coming of Christ in that here God chooses and brings into being the nation of Israel. As God’s chosen people, Israel became the custodians of the Old Testament, the recipients of the covenants of promise, and the channel of Messiah (Rom. 3:2; 9:1-5).

Enter the N.T.:

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

The Law became defunct 2021 years ago

Why are the anti-Christian brigade so afraid to admit this fact?

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Brian Ross

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #37 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 4:33pm

Here we see the usual lies and dissembling by Yadda and Moses. Both want to claim the superiority of their belief but refuse to accept that some people disagree with them and demonstrate the problems with Christianity. I do not dissemble about my views WRT to religion. It has been capable of some greats without a doubt but it also has been responsible for some real lows, lows perpetuated in the name of Christ/Mohammed/Yahweh/various Hindu deities and so on. All caused by belief in the message of [insert deity of choice here] and the writings that glorify the belief in it and it's religion. Thankfully most believers know their are limits to their belief. Unfortunately, neither Yadda or Moses appear to do so, which their unending persecution of innocent, law-abiding, peaceful, moderate Muslims. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Ayn Marx

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #38 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 5:57pm

moses wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 3:27pm:

I suppose the hate being cited in the Bible is the Mosaic law of the O.T.
Why do the anti-Christian brigade all try to tap dance around the fact that the Mosaic law was done away with 2021 years ago?
[/b]

So why are such passages still read from the pulpit and still regarded by many as God’s holy word? And why do you imagine Mosaic law is the only evil doctrine contained in that book?

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Yadda

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #39 - Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 7:10pm

Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 5:57pm:

moses wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 3:27pm:

I suppose the hate being cited in the Bible is the Mosaic law of the O.T.
Why do the anti-Christian brigade all try to tap dance around the fact that the Mosaic law was done away with 2021 years ago?
[/b]

So why are such passages still read from the pulpit and still regarded by many as God’s holy word? And why do you imagine Mosaic law is the only evil doctrine contained in that book?

Ayn_Marx,

The title of this thread is; "This is how the lie really started."

Instead of doubling down and telling another group of lies, why don't you take this topic [Mosaic law of the O.T.] to another thread ?

And you can ask there, about Mosaic law of the O.T.

This thread was started by issue, to discuss the deceit and obfuscation and lying of moslems,
relating to their religion.

ISLAM.

brian,
A CHALLENGE

Show me in the Koran, where Allah say's he loves strangers [disbelievers] Deuteronomy 10:17-19

And, where Allah tells moslems, that strangers [disbelievers] must be treated equally with moslems before ISLAMIC law.

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger:
for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Frank

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #40 - Mar 24^th, 2021 at 11:17am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 11:41am:

Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 10:54am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 10:05am:

Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2021 at 9:26am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2021 at 8:37pm:

Ordinary, everyday, peaceful, law-abiding, mainstream Muslims don't fit your description of them at all. Funny that, hey?

Not sure funny is the correct term. Can I suggest dishonest? If you acquaint yourself with the hate filled passages in the Koran listing how infidels should be treated you need to ask why these law-abiding, peaceful, mainstream Muslims never object to such blood thirsty urgings. Granted similar encouragement to religious violence can easily be found in the Bible but at least most christians have managed to criticise such passages.

The passages remain in the Bible, filling those who believe what is written with hate and bile towards non-Christians. We see it everyday in the postings from Moses, Yadda, Soren, etc. Some Muslims believe what they read, most just ignore them and get on with being ordinary, everyday, moderate, peaceful, law-abiding Muslims. Those that believe that stuff become Islamists. Roll Eyes

How very convenient for Muslims to ignore large passages of violence inducing hatred whilst continuing to view the Koran as a ‘Holy' text. Yes, the ravings of Moses, Yadda et al may be spiritually neanderthal but there are literally thousands of today’s biblical scholars who openly criticise many of the passages in the Bible and nobody from any church has even suggested they be stoned to death. Try that anywhere in the Middle East.
Central to these issues is the delusional concept any text can be claimed to be ’The Word of God’.

The passages remain there, in the Bible, something undeniable. The passages remain in the Q'ran again something that is undeniable. As to how many Bibiblical scholars criticise those passages, I have no idea and I have done a Doctor of Divinity degree. Yes, some do, most don't. Most just ignore them. I am sure that is the same amongst most Muslim theologians as well. What proportion of Muslims just skim over them? I have no idea. Any guess is just a guess. How many Muslims actually believe and undertake those passages as being "the undeniable word of God," again I have no idea and again, any guess is just a guess. Roll Eyes

You were guessing ignorantly before your mail order divinity degree, you are guessing ignorantly after it. Yet you boast about it because you guess, ignorantly, that your guesses thereby would be seen as 'educated' ones.

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moses

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #41 - Mar 24^th, 2021 at 5:54pm

The passages of the law all rescinded in the bible 2021 years ago.

Why do some people keep lying about this fact

Quote:

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:11 But that [highlight]no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

If some one responds I'll be back in a week or so.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39572	Re: This is how the lie really started. Reply #42 - Mar 24^th, 2021 at 5:56pm Funny how few Christians recognise that, Moses 'cause they still preach from the Old Testament, they still obey the lore from the Old Testament. Tsk, tsk, Moses stumbles once up against what most Christians believe today...
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moses

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #43 - Mar 24^th, 2021 at 6:00pm

Ayn Marx wrote:
Quote:

So why are such passages still read from the pulpit and still regarded by many as God’s holy word? And why do you imagine Mosaic law is the only evil doctrine contained in that book?

Which pulpits exactly and are these pulpits being used by people who are in fact genuine Christians?

Do you know that there are many people claiming to be Christians, when in fact they are disobeying the word of Christ and by doing this, they lose the right to be called a Christian?

The Christian doctrine predicts that this will happen.

Quote:

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So it's very clear that there are certain criteria to be met in order to be a Christian.

Just as there are many people fraudulently posing as defence personal, police, doctors, lawyers, accountants etc. etc., there are many people posing as Christians.

Are you telling me that the frauds are all genuine simply because they say they are?

There are frauds in Christianity, why do the Anti-Christ brigade all try and tell us they are genuine?

If you respond I will be back in a week or so.

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Brian Ross

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Re: This is how the lie really started.
Reply #44 - Mar 24^th, 2021 at 7:49pm

moses wrote on Mar 24^th, 2021 at 6:00pm:

Ayn Marx wrote:
Quote:

So why are such passages still read from the pulpit and still regarded by many as God’s holy word? And why do you imagine Mosaic law is the only evil doctrine contained in that book?

Which pulpits exactly and are these pulpits being used by people who are in fact genuine Christians?

Do you know that there are many people claiming to be Christians, when in fact they are disobeying the word of Christ and by doing this, they lose the right to be called a Christian?

How...convenient. Typical of the dissemblers and the liars who make up the hard-core Christians on this webboard. Tsk, tsk, much easier to disown them than accept responsibility for their actions, even if it is staring you in the face, hey? Roll Eyes

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