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The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia (Read 24437 times)
AusGeoff
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #150 - Aug 30th, 2022 at 4:09am
 

I think, at least in Australia, we need to maintain a certain
degree of Islamophobia.  It keeps us on our toes, especially
now that so many Muslims are settling here.  Islam is the
second-fastest growing religion in Australia, and at the last
census there were more than 813,300 of them here.  As a
comparison, there were only 99,950 Jews in Australia.

As a lifelong atheist, I find this image, captured in Sydney, quite disturbing...

...

This is NOT how we should be educating young Australian
schoolgirls in any way, shape or form.  I dread to think what
they're being taught behind closed doors.



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Frank
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #151 - Aug 30th, 2022 at 5:51am
 
In 1941 the English Channel proved very effective in preventing an invasion by Adolf Hitler’s Germany, but it has proved much less effective in 2022 in deterring an invasion of illegal migrants from North Africa and the Middle East.

On one day last week almost 1300 of these migrants reached the English coast in 27 boats. These took the total number of arrivals for the eight months of this year to almost 23,000, close to double the number who had crossed the Channel by the same time last year.

All of these arrivals presumably will claim asylum as political refugees in Britain, thereby sparking legal proceedings that will take many years to determine, if ever. What they know is, once they have landed in Britain, the overwhelming likelihood is they will never be forced to leave. They are, of course, not political refugees but economic immigrants.

This is not in itself a cause for criticism. The US and Australia were built largely by economic immigrants. But in those cases their entry was authorised by the administrations of each country.

In a desperate effort to deal with this problem the British government devised a plan this year to process asylum-seekers in Rwanda. This was essentially an exercise in deterrence on the basis that those crossing the Channel would not do so if they knew their destination was Rwanda, not Britain. But immigration lawyers brought proceedings against the British government in the European Court of Human Rights, which granted an injunction to stop any deportations to Rwanda.

This is an issue of sovereignty. Britain has left the EU but is still subject to a court in Strasbourg, France. Why the British government is prepared to accept such a situation is difficult to answer.

The problem with the 1951 Geneva Convention on the status of refugees is that it defines a refugee as a person who has left their country because of a well-founded view of being persecuted in that country by reason of race, religion, nationality, membership of a political social group or political opinion. It no doubt was thought in 1951 that there would be individuals from time to time in this category but no one envisaged a situation where millions of people in some regions wanted to leave their countries and move to more attractive ones.

It also was assumed in 1951 that refugees would seek asylum in the first country in which they arrived after leaving their own unsafe regime. But, as in the case of those crossing the Channel, it is now possible to move through many countries, then finally settle on one – in this case Britain – as the place to make an asylum claim.

Almost all the boats crossing the Channel are leaving from France. This raises the question of why the immigrants, many of them unaccompanied young men, having moved through Europe from North Africa and the Middle East, do not want to try to settle in one of these European countries,including France, which they obviously want to abandon for Britain. Needless to say, the French have no interest in stopping the boats and they cannot be compelled to take their occupants back even if the British were to force them to turn around.

Most Western countries have a system for authorised immigrants and a separate quota for genuine refugees. The only alternative is the concept of open borders in circumstances where millions in Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia would prefer to live in a Western country. But that solution to the problems of immigration in the modern world is never openly advocated by those in Britain who condemned the Rwanda proposal or those in Australia who have condemned the policies of successive federal governments. Yet it is an inevitable consequence of the views they espouse.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/britain-besieged-by-economic-migrant...

Turning back boats and deportations are necessary. Court procedures for asylum claim reviews must be shortened and radically simplified. There is a whole immigration law industry.  There shouldn't be. Grounds for asylum must be narrowed.

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polite_gandalf
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #152 - Aug 30th, 2022 at 11:34am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2022 at 2:24pm:
Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?


Is free speech the nail or the kingdom in this analogy? Or is it incitement to violence that is the nail - or perhaps the apprentice? At least answer that.

Do you even remember what I actually asked you?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #153 - Aug 30th, 2022 at 6:13pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 11:34am:
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2022 at 2:24pm:
Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?


Is free speech the nail or the kingdom in this analogy? Or is it incitement to violence that is the nail - or perhaps the apprentice? At least answer that.

Do you even remember what I actually asked you?


In this analogy, the nail represents a nail and the kingdom represents a kingdom.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #154 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 1:57pm
 
Is this the sort of "discussion" you envisaged when you first created this forum FD?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #155 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 5:40pm
 
I never expected to find a whole religion dedicated to evasion.

Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?
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Frank
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #156 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 5:54pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 1:57pm:
Is this the sort of "discussion" you envisaged when you first created this forum FD?




It is a magnificently plain record and illustration of just how alien the Islamic mind is, not least because its absolute dread of critical self-reflection.

If there is ONE thing that Islam killed off and keeps killing off to this day, it is critical self-reflection. Because Muslims from Mohammed to this day know that critical self-reflection would blow Islam away faster than a Haboob.



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polite_gandalf
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #157 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:24am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 5:40pm:
I never expected to find a whole religion dedicated to evasion.


Hilarious - says the guy who has avoided a simple request for clarification about 5 times now.

Lets just pretend you are not trolling, and you genuinely don't understand what the problem is here. This is literally how it has gone down:

FD asks: "Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?"

Gandalf asks what that means in the context of this discussion.

FD answers: "Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?"

FD follow-up answer to more requests for clarification as to what the analogy means:
"In this analogy, the nail represents a nail and the kingdom represents a kingdom."

Now I know you know how inane and stupid you are acting, but I'll just put it here anyway for posterity.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #158 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:28am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 5:54pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 1:57pm:
Is this the sort of "discussion" you envisaged when you first created this forum FD?




It is a magnificently plain record and illustration of just how alien the Islamic mind is, not least because its absolute dread of critical self-reflection.

If there is ONE thing that Islam killed off and keeps killing off to this day, it is critical self-reflection. Because Muslims from Mohammed to this day know that critical self-reflection would blow Islam away faster than a Haboob.


Oh I agree Frank - definitely someone explaining a free speech analogy "Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?" - with "In this analogy, the nail represents a nail and the kingdom represents a kingdom." - sure does expose what a silly bunch those muslims are.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #159 - Sep 30th, 2022 at 6:11pm
 
Quote:
Gandalf asks what that means in the context of this discussion.


I think the answer will be obvious if you stop evading. It is independent of context. Your question does not even make sense.

FD asks: "Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?"
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polite_gandalf
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #160 - Oct 6th, 2022 at 9:38am
 
It is not independent of context FD. I can't believe I have to point that out.

Pretend I'm stupid and it is not obvious to me. Just explain it anyway - just for fun.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #161 - Oct 6th, 2022 at 8:42pm
 
Perhaps you could give some contexts in which the answer is different?

Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?
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random
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #162 - Oct 6th, 2022 at 8:57pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 6:13pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 11:34am:
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2022 at 2:24pm:
Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?


Is free speech the nail or the kingdom in this analogy? Or is it incitement to violence that is the nail - or perhaps the apprentice? At least answer that.

Do you even remember what I actually asked you?


In this analogy, the nail represents a nail and the kingdom represents a kingdom.



...
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freediver
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #163 - Oct 6th, 2022 at 8:58pm
 
random wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 8:57pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 6:13pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 11:34am:
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2022 at 2:24pm:
Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?


Is free speech the nail or the kingdom in this analogy? Or is it incitement to violence that is the nail - or perhaps the apprentice? At least answer that.

Do you even remember what I actually asked you?


In this analogy, the nail represents a nail and the kingdom represents a kingdom.



https://media.tenor.com/ZCNqYW8b3JoAAAAM/what-a-dick-kyle-broflovski.gif


Apparently that makes it too complicated for Gandalf. He prefers it when words mean something other than what they mean.
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random
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Re: The Best Way to Combat Islamophobia
Reply #164 - Oct 6th, 2022 at 9:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 8:58pm:
random wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 8:57pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 6:13pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 11:34am:
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2022 at 2:24pm:
Should the apprentice who erred in making the nail be held liable for the loss of the kingdom?


Is free speech the nail or the kingdom in this analogy? Or is it incitement to violence that is the nail - or perhaps the apprentice? At least answer that.

Do you even remember what I actually asked you?


In this analogy, the nail represents a nail and the kingdom represents a kingdom.



https://media.tenor.com/ZCNqYW8b3JoAAAAM/what-a-dick-kyle-broflovski.gif


Apparently that makes it too complicated for Gandalf. He prefers it when words mean something other than what they mean.


Congratulations.

I award you a Koala Stamp for not posting yet another rhetorical question.

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