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⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜ (Read 16151 times)
Bias_2012
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #135 - Mar 4th, 2021 at 7:18pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 1:47pm:
No you haven't.  Tsk, tsk.


Yes I did, any discussion about the militia is also a discussion about the 2nd Amendment


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 1:47pm:
No it isn't.  If the NRA had simply stuck to what it was originally organised as, it wouldn't even have registered on my radar.  Since it's take over by gun nuts in the 1970s, it has become increasingly a political lobby group rather than a firearms instructional group.


Yes it is. Whenever there's a discussion about guns and the 2nd Amendment, you raise the NRA as being a culprit. They can lobby politicians if they wish, lots of organizations lobby politicians


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 1:47pm:
The NRA never raised a peep to this "infringement" which effectively reinterprets the Second Amendment.  They are a bunch of hypocrites it seems.  Booh-hooh


Your persistence with using the incorrect word "reinterpret" re: infringement, is only out-done by your sarcasm directed at the NRA, proving they're your pet peeve


Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 1:47pm:
Despite your claims, I don't want to eliminate guns from society.  I just want them to be regulated to ensure those who own them are doing so safely. The NRA seeks to own Politicians and control their actions according to their radical view on gun ownership.  They are scum as far as I am concerned.


There you go again, your pet peeve, even after you just said:
"I don't want to eliminate guns from society"



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Brian Ross
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #136 - Mar 4th, 2021 at 7:48pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 7:18pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 1:47pm:
No you haven't.  Tsk, tsk.


Yes I did, any discussion about the militia is also a discussion about the 2nd Amendment


Better,  I must say, than the Gun Nuts who prefer to ignore the first clause of the amendment entirely and focus only on the second one just as Panther does all the time.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Quote:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 1:47pm:
No it isn't.  If the NRA had simply stuck to what it was originally organised as, it wouldn't even have registered on my radar.  Since it's take over by gun nuts in the 1970s, it has become increasingly a political lobby group rather than a firearms instructional group.


Yes it is. Whenever there's a discussion about guns and the 2nd Amendment, you raise the NRA as being a culprit. They can lobby politicians if they wish, lots of organizations lobby politicians


The NRA promotes itself as being the premier lobbyists for all gun nuts, Bias.  Why am I mistaken to include them in the discussion?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Quote:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 1:47pm:
The NRA never raised a peep to this "infringement" which effectively reinterprets the Second Amendment.  They are a bunch of hypocrites it seems.  Booh-hooh


Your persistence with using the incorrect word "reinterpret" re: infringement, is only out-done by your sarcasm directed at the NRA, proving they're your pet peeve


Face the reality, Bias.  The Second Amendment has effectively been reinterpreted.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Quote:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 1:47pm:
Despite your claims, I don't want to eliminate guns from society.  I just want them to be regulated to ensure those who own them are doing so safely. The NRA seeks to own Politicians and control their actions according to their radical view on gun ownership.  They are scum as far as I am concerned.


There you go again, your pet peeve, even after you just said: "I don't want to eliminate guns from society"


I don't, Bias.  It is a charge often levelled at me without evidence.  I have never suggested that all guns should be removed.  You are erecting a strawman argument.  Please stop it.  It doesn't become you.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bias_2012
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #137 - Mar 5th, 2021 at 2:48pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 7:48pm:
Face the reality, Bias.  The Second Amendment has effectively been reinterpreted.  Tsk, tsk


You keep saying it, but you're wrong. You've let your peeve with the NRA, and your anxiety to have gun control distort your thinking about the 2nd Amendment

Like so many other people you fail to understand the real meaning of the 2nd Amendment. The latter part  of the 2nd is for the protection of the RIGHT to keep and bear arms. It doesn't say what sort of arms, therefore they can be regulated, but the RIGHT to keep and bear them can't be changed while ever it's in the Constitution, and this is how the courts adjudicate on 2nd Amendment matters.

The RIGHT to keep and bear arms can't be reinterpreted, not even for the anti-gun lobby, but the "arms" can be regulated as being fit, or unfit for a "free State". No "reinterpretation" is necessary, the correct interpretation was made centuries ago, and the courts were left with the job of deciding which type of "arms". That's why it just says "arms", not specifically rifles, handguns, bazookas or any other specific weapon

So your so-called "reinterpretation" is only your attempt to say the meaning of the 2nd was changed. It hasn't been changed at all, you're confused about the "Right to keep and bear arms" with the courts right to regulate the "arms", and the courts have aways had the power to do that, but they don't "reinterpret", they regulate

Any "reinterpretation" is only "misinterpretation" … and that's not a wise thing to do on anything in the Constitution. It's only in the minds of fools and those who don't bother to try and understand the Amendment properly


This is an example of a ruling, a 1939 ruling on the regulation of "arms" re: sawn-off shotguns. But note the last paragraph and the highlighted sentence before it

United States v. Miller
(1939), the
Supreme Court held that the Second
Amendment did not protect the right to
possess all types of weapons. The Court
upheld a federal law that regulated sawed-
off shotguns [one type of gun that is easily
concealed and often used by criminals].
The Court reasoned that since that type
of weapon was not related to keeping up
a militia
, the Second Amendment did not
protect the right to own it. In other words,
the Second Amendment protected a right
to own weapons. The question was how far
that right went.



Your gloating about full auto firearms being banned is just that, gloating. The "arms" have always been subject to regulation, it's no big deal like you try to make it out to be

Without a good understanding of the two parts in the 2nd Amendment, you're likely to get everything wrong about it

The regulation of the "arms" is consistent with maintaining a "well regulated militia" and "free State" as per the first part of the 2nd Amendment. Can't have ordinary people randomly shooting up the "State" with Howitzers or the like, it wouldn't be a free State anymore. So the "arms" are regulated

For smaller firearms, the courts have the power to regulate those too, but your childish language calling people "gun nuts" and "scum" isn't going to hasten more regulation, it just induces anger and resistance in people

If you'd like the meaning of the 2nd Amendment changed (to a different interpretation), you'd have to trigger the Article V process and see if you could succeed at changing it

It's ridiculous to suggest the courts reinterpreted the 2nd. The courts are not that silly. They just decide which "arms" citizens can have


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Brian Ross
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #138 - Mar 5th, 2021 at 3:35pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 5th, 2021 at 2:48pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 4th, 2021 at 7:48pm:
Face the reality, Bias.  The Second Amendment has effectively been reinterpreted.  Tsk, tsk


You keep saying it, but you're wrong. You've let your peeve with the NRA, and your anxiety to have gun control distort your thinking about the 2nd Amendment


...

Yeah, yeah, whatever floats your boat,  Bias.  Yes, you're right and I am wrong.  What a shame in reality it is the reverse.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bias_2012
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #139 - Mar 5th, 2021 at 11:28pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5th, 2021 at 3:35pm:
Yes, you're right and I am wrong. What a shame in reality it is the reverse.  Tsk, tsk.



That's correct, you got something right for a change. Go do your study of the 2nd
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #140 - Mar 6th, 2021 at 12:00pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 5th, 2021 at 11:28pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5th, 2021 at 3:35pm:
Yes, you're right and I am wrong. What a shame in reality it is the reverse.  Tsk, tsk.



That's correct, you got something right for a change.
Go do your study of the 2nd


... Bias scores a Home Run......Hit's it outa the Park!! ...


...

Grin




..
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #141 - Mar 6th, 2021 at 2:51pm
 
...

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Panther
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #142 - Mar 6th, 2021 at 9:00pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 2:51pm:


Grenades, unlike firearms, are illegal to own, while Americans have the Constitutional Right to own firearms ....specifically for use in self-defense to save life, rather than criminally take life.....It's an American's Inalienable Right......The American Founding Fathers, unlike other countries founding leaders, were not afraid to trust the American People with the Right to own the tools to their self-defense......their Constitutionally protected Firearms!


The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution affirms, defends, & protects an American Citizen's Right to Keep & Bear Arms [b]to use in Self-Defense.....of himself/herself, their loved ones, friends, & fellow citizens.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, finds Our Rights as American Citizens offensive, you'll just have to suck it up, & get over it, or face the reality that our American Rights will remain offensive to you for the rest of your NATURAL life. Our American Rights will serve all us Americans, & our posterity, as they have for well over 225 years, for all time.
...
...


.........


...

...


..

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Dnarever
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #143 - Mar 6th, 2021 at 9:38pm
 
Panther wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 9:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 2:51pm:


Grenades, unlike firearms, are illegal to own, while Americans have the Constitutional Right to own firearms ....specifically for use in self-defense to save life, rather than criminally take life.....It's an American's Inalienable Right......The American Founding Fathers, unlike other countries founding leaders, were not afraid to trust the American People with the Right to own the tools to their self-defense......their Constitutionally protected Firearms!


The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution affirms, defends, & protects an American Citizen's Right to Keep & Bear Arms to use in Self-Defense.....of himself/herself, their loved ones, friends, & fellow citizens.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, finds Our Rights as American Citizens offensive, you'll just have to suck it up, & get over it, or face the reality that our American Rights will remain offensive to you for the rest of your NATURAL life. Our American Rights will serve all us Americans, & our posterity, as they have for well over 225 years, for all time.
https://imgur.com/6tcmHQH.gif
https://imgur.com/ay4GYqv.gif


https://imgur.com/3m8TicF.gifhttps://imgur.com/4F6nbS9.gifhttps://imgur.com/8HaR1LB.gif


https://imgur.com/RTPNIfm.gif

https://imgur.com/Is3tgC1.gif


..



Quote:
Americans have the Constitutional Right to own firearms ....[b]specifically for use in self-defense to save life, rather than criminally take life.....It's an American's Inalienable Right......The American Founding Fathers, unlike other countries founding leaders, were not afraid to trust the American People with the Right to own the tools to their self-defense......their Constitutionally protected Firearms!


The necessity of Malitia
,
the right to keep and bear arms.


The 2nd amendment has two parts neither agree with one word you posted.
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Brian Ross
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #144 - Mar 6th, 2021 at 10:47pm
 
...

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mortdooley
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #145 - Mar 6th, 2021 at 11:11pm
 
When the governments over reach is this blatant it is the duty of the States and Local governments to block them!

With Democrats controlling the presidency and Congress, Republican state lawmakers concerned about the possibility of new federal gun control laws aren’t waiting to react.

Legislation in at least a dozen states seeks to nullify any new restrictions, such as ammunition limits or a ban on certain types of weapons. Some bills would make it a crime for local police officers to enforce federal gun laws.

That can create confusion for officers who often work with federal law enforcement, said Daniel Isom, a former chief of the St. Louis Police Department who is now a senior advisor for Everytown for Gun Safety. Federal law plays a big role in some areas, such as keeping guns away from domestic violence offenders.

Putting local officers in a position to decide which laws to enforce is the last thing police need at a time when cities such as St. Louis are experiencing a rise in violent crime, Isom said.

“This has been an extremely challenging year for both communities and law enforcement, and to ask any more mental strain on officers at this point in time seems to be quite displaced,” he said. Gun sales also have set monthly records nationwide since the coronavirus pandemic took hold.

Isom is concerned about a Missouri measure passed by the state House that would allow police departments with officers who enforce federal gun laws to be sued and face a $50,000 fine. It’s not the first time Missouri has considered such a bill, but supporters pointed to President Joe Biden taking office as a reason to pass it now.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/arizona-democrats-lose-it-over-two-pro-gun-bil...
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« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2021 at 11:37pm by Mortdooley »  

The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. ~Ecc. 10:2
 
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Panther
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #146 - Mar 7th, 2021 at 10:42am
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 9:38pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 9:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 2:51pm:


Grenades, unlike firearms, are illegal to own, while Americans have the Constitutional Right to own firearms ....specifically for use in self-defense to save life, rather than criminally take life.....It's an American's Inalienable Right......The American Founding Fathers, unlike other countries founding leaders, were not afraid to trust the American People with the Right to own the tools to their self-defense......their Constitutionally protected Firearms!


The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution affirms, defends, & protects an American Citizen's Right to Keep & Bear Arms to use in Self-Defense.....of himself/herself, their loved ones, friends, & fellow citizens.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, finds Our Rights as American Citizens offensive, you'll just have to suck it up, & get over it, or face the reality that our American Rights will remain offensive to you for the rest of your NATURAL life. Our American Rights will serve all us Americans, & our posterity, as they have for well over 225 years, for all time.
https://imgur.com/6tcmHQH.gif
https://imgur.com/ay4GYqv.gif


https://imgur.com/3m8TicF.gifhttps://imgur.com/4F6nbS9.gifhttps://imgur.com/8HaR1LB.gif


https://imgur.com/RTPNIfm.gif

https://imgur.com/Is3tgC1.gif


..



Quote:
Americans have the Constitutional Right to own firearms ....[b]specifically for use in self-defense to save life, rather than criminally take life.....It's an American's Inalienable Right......The American Founding Fathers, unlike other countries founding leaders, were not afraid to trust the American People with the Right to own the tools to their self-defense......their Constitutionally protected Firearms!


The necessity of Malitia
,
the right to keep and bear arms.


The 2nd amendment has two parts neither agree with one word you posted.


...




There are two clauses that comprise the Second Amendment, an OPERATIVE CLAUSE, and a PREFATORY CLAUSE.

Operative Clause: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The operative clause is the actual protected right; kind of the 'meat and potatoes' clause.

The Supreme Court wrote:

Operative Clause. a. 'Right of the People.' [used 3 times in Bill of Rights] ... All three of these instances unambiguously refer to individual rights, not 'collective' rights, or rights that may be exercised only through participation in some corporate body." .

Prefatory Clause: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State."


The Prefatory Clause is the lead-in that "announces a purpose" for the Operative Clause.


The Supreme Court stated: "The Amendment's prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause's text and history demonstrate that it connotes an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to Keep and Bear Arms".




Source:    
WIKIPEDIA
       Quote:
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court ruling that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a militia, for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense..........




I suggest, if you are actually interested in what really is the meaning of the Second Amendment, the Right of Americans to Keep & Bear Arms, you should begin by reading the Supreme Court's Judgment & Ruling in DC vs. Heller..............the actual Judgment of the Court, & Ruling not the opinion pieces of the four dissenting Justices in the 5-4 Supreme Court Ruling.

Until a subsequent ruling to the contrary, by another Supreme Court at some future date, or an Amendment to the United States Constitution, ratified by the American People, either changing or replacing the original Second Amendment to the United States Supreme Court, this ruling stands as final, & to hold the full force of Law within the United States Constitution, 'The Law of the Land', by which all other United States Laws must conform.




...
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« Last Edit: Mar 7th, 2021 at 11:12am by Panther »  

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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Brian Ross
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #147 - Mar 7th, 2021 at 1:10pm
 
...

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Dnarever
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #148 - Mar 8th, 2021 at 3:19pm
 
Panther wrote on Mar 7th, 2021 at 10:42am:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 9:38pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 9:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 2:51pm:


Grenades, unlike firearms, are illegal to own, while Americans have the Constitutional Right to own firols to their self-defense......their Constitutionally protected Firearms!


The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution affirms, defends, & protects an American Citizen's Right to Keep & Bear Arms to use in Self-Defense.....of himself/herself, their loved ones, friends, & fellow citizens.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, finds Our Rights as American Citizens offensive, you'll just have to suck it up, & gerity, as they have for well over 225 years, for all time.
https://imgur.com/6tcmHQH.gif
https://imgur.com/ay4GYqv.gif


https://imgur.com/3m8TicF.gifhttps://imgur.com/4F6nbS9.gifhttps://imgur.com/8HaR1LB.gif


https://imgur.com/RTPNIfm.gif

https://imgur.com/Is3tgC1.gif


..



Quote:
Americans have the Constitutional Right to own firearms ....[b]specifically for use in self-defense to save life, rather than criminally take life.....It's an American's Inalienable Right......The American Founding Fathers, unlike other countries founding leaders, were not afraid to trust the American People with the Right to own the tools to their self-defense......their Constitutionally protected Firearms!


The necessity of Malitia
,
the right to keep and bear arms.


The 2nd amendment has two parts neither agree with one word you posted.


https://imgur.com/1v9xzYL.gif




There are two clauses that comprise the Second Amendment, an OPERATIVE CLAUSE, and a PREFATORY CLAUSE.

Operative Clause: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The operative clause is the actual protected right; kind of the 'meat and potatoes' clause.

The Supreme Court wrote:

Operative Clause. a. 'Right of the People.' [used 3 times in Bill of Rights] ... All three of these instances unambiguously refer to individual rights, not 'collective' rights, or rights that may be exercised only through participation in some corporate body." .

Prefatory Clause: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State."


The Prefatory Clause is the lead-in that "announces a purpose" for the Operative Clause.


The Supreme Court stated: "The Amendment's prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause's text and history demonstrate that it connotes an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to Keep and Bear Arms".




Source:    
WIKIPEDIA
       Quote:
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court ruling that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a militia, for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense..........




I suggest, if you are actually interested in what really is the meaning of the Second Amendment, the Right of Americans to Keep & Bear Arms, you should begin by reading the Supreme Court's Judgment & Ruling in DC vs. Heller..............the actual Judgment of the Court, & Ruling not the opinion pieces of the four dissenting Justices in the 5-4 Supreme Court Ruling.

Until a subsequent ruling to the contrary, by another Supreme Court at some future date, or an Amendment to the United States Constitution, ratified by the American People, either changing or replacing the original Second Amendment to the United States Supreme Court, this ruling stands as final, & to hold the full force of Law within the United States Constitution, 'The Law of the Land', by which all other United States Laws must conform.




https://imgur.com/ay4GYqv.gif


All you have is the corrupt 2008 decision that re defined the 2nd amendment to mean something it never had before and was clearly not the intended meaning. This was a corrupt political gun lobby driven result first created in 2008. The 2nd amendment had a completely different meaning for the prior 200 plus years.

The 2nd amendment was clearly written at a time when the Militia was considered necessary and it was armed through the personal weapons of its members giving the second clearly defined meaning. The prefatory clause is  guff
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« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2021 at 3:24pm by Dnarever »  
 
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Re: ⮞ Challenge to Non-Americans & Anti-Gunners ⮜
Reply #149 - Mar 9th, 2021 at 8:32am
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 8th, 2021 at 3:19pm:
All you have is the corrupt 2008 decision that re defined the 2nd amendment to mean something it never had before and was clearly not the intended meaning. This was a corrupt political gun lobby driven result first created in 2008. The 2nd amendment had a completely different meaning for the prior 200 plus years.

The 2nd amendment was clearly written at a time when the Militia was considered necessary and it was armed through the personal weapons of its members giving the second clearly defined meaning. The prefatory clause is  guff


A Personal Opinion, by a non-American, who knows jack-shydtt anything about American Law, the American System, or American History.

Your ignorance about the United States Supreme Court proves it.

FACT: 
What the Supreme Court decided back in 2008, in the DC vs. Heller Decision, IS LAW.......if you don't like it........tough.......you're only a mere Australian, & your personal opinions mean absolutely nothing in America, to American Law....only here in this little bitty forum......to you alone.

FACT:  The 2008 Heller Decision stands, & it's been American LAW since June 26, 2008.

Nothing else matters.

FACT:   It will be so until a subsequent ruling to the contrary, by another Supreme Court, at some future date, or an Amendment to the United States Constitution, ratified by the American People, either changing or replacing the original Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. This 2008 ruling......regardless of what anybody thinks or says to the contrary, stands as final, & is unappealable as the full force of Law within the United States Constitution, 'The Law of the Land', by which all other United States Laws must conform.
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« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2021 at 8:58am by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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