Australian Politics Forum - Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech

polite_gandalf

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Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Jan 13^th, 2021 at 9:55am

The liberal member for Wentworth penned an op-ed in the SMH today in which he said:

Quote:

Trump has been stripped of his political voice, silenced, without reference to any law, and without the involvement of any court. Should this happen in a liberal democracy?

Putting aside the laughable idea that the US President, who at any moment can command the attention of the entire nation simply by stepping up to the White House podium, has been "silenced", Sharma clearly mistakes this action as a move to limit free speech:

Quote:

Free speech has its limitations in a free society. But when such limitations are imposed, it is normally done by a publicly accountable body, usually a parliament, passing legislation in a transparent and contestable manner.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/twitter-s-decision-to-ban-donald-trump-is-chilli...

Twitter is a privately owned platform that allows users to broadcast their messages.

At no point is the ability to make this broadcast a "right" that has anything to do with free speech. Twitter can, and does, allow whom they will, when they will, to use their platform - and this decision is completely separate to an individual's right to free speech.

And the idea that twitter's business decisions related to who they choose to allow or dissallow from their platform should be any sort of transparent process by some publicly accountable body - is utterly ridiculous.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech Reply #1 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 3:21pm I read that peice too It's quite ironic that a conservative should be advocating for the government to be able to tell a private company what it is allowed to do
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Ayn Marx Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2937 South of Australia Gender:	Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech Reply #2 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 3:28pm The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 3:21pm: I read that peice too It's quite ironic that a conservative should be advocating for the government to be able to tell a private company what it is allowed to do Time they read Ayn Rand?
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Valkie

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #3 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 3:47pm

Ayn Marx wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 3:28pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 3:21pm:

I read that peice too

It's quite ironic that a conservative should be advocating for the government to be able to tell a private company what it is allowed to do

Time they read Ayn Rand?

Why should any private company have any more rights than a private person.

Our rights are gradually being eroded away every day.
All for our own good of course...............

WE....MUST...OBEY....THE ....GRUBBERMENT......IN ....ALL.....THINGS.

Sheeple, is the perfect terminology of Australians at the moment.

Greed cameras......yes mein fuhrer

Mobile camera cameras.....yes mein fuhrer

Cannot buy anything worth more than $10,000.00 with legal cash.......yes mein fuhrer.
Draconian gun laws.......yes mein fuhrer

Draconian knife laws.....yes mein fuhrer

Ridiculously draconian self defence (non existent) laws.......yes mein fuhrer

Ridiculously lax criminal laws allowing criminals more rights than the victims....yes mein fuhrer.

Do you honestly think the grubberment cares even one iota about You?

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU

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Mix_Master

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #4 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 4:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 9:55am:

The liberal member for Wentworth penned an op-ed in the SMH today in which he said:

Quote:

Trump has been stripped of his political voice, silenced, without reference to any law, and without the involvement of any court. Should this happen in a liberal democracy?

Putting aside the laughable idea that the US President, who at any moment can command the attention of the entire nation simply by stepping up to the White House podium, has been "silenced", Sharma clearly mistakes this action as a move to limit free speech:

Quote:

Free speech has its limitations in a free society. But when such limitations are imposed, it is normally done by a publicly accountable body, usually a parliament, passing legislation in a transparent and contestable manner.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/twitter-s-decision-to-ban-donald-trump-is-chilli...

Twitter is a privately owned platform that allows users to broadcast their messages.

At no point is the ability to make this broadcast a "right" that has anything to do with free speech. Twitter can, and does, allow whom they will, when they will, to use their platform - and this decision is completely separate to an individual's right to free speech.

And the idea that twitter's business decisions related to who they choose to allow or dissallow from their platform should be any sort of transparent process by some publicly accountable body - is utterly ridiculous.

Methinks the Honourable member is more interested in protecting the ability of "conservative leaning" people to spread lies and misinformation - as you rightly point out, likely in violation of the TOS of the hosting platform - as opposed to "free speech", as such.

Therein lies the crux.

How "free" is "free speech"?

E.g. We have certain posters on here who come here only to spread lies and misinformation. And they're allowed to "roam the boards" unchecked. Then again, people aren't storming bastions of Democracy, based on what those try-hards post here...

On the other hand, we have someone who has a large number of followers, to whom he has peddled - and continues to try to peddle - baseless conspiracy theories, which resulted in a number of them storming the Capitol last week

Should that person be able to continue to "have a voice", when "having a voice (and, importantly, using it to spread lies and misinformation to a large, largely unthinking "fan base"), leads to what we saw the other day...and will likely lead to more unrest in the few days...? (Not to mention the broader implications for the U.S going forward).

Not sure "silencing" Trump is solely a "free speech" issue. More about silencing known BS (and its less-than-stellar outcomes). And of course a business decision about who the platform owners want - or do not want - posting on it, which is their right

The alternative is to give him back his voice on social media, and fact check every post...likely most would need to be accompanied by warnings like "THIS IS B/S", and "PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU ACCEPT ANYTHING IN THIS POST AS GOSPEL!!!"

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #5 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 5:34pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 9:55am:

The liberal member for Wentworth penned an op-ed in the SMH today in which he said:

Quote:

Trump has been stripped of his political voice, silenced, without reference to any law, and without the involvement of any court. Should this happen in a liberal democracy?

Putting aside the laughable idea that the US President, who at any moment can command the attention of the entire nation simply by stepping up to the White House podium, has been "silenced", Sharma clearly mistakes this action as a move to limit free speech:

Quote:

Free speech has its limitations in a free society. But when such limitations are imposed, it is normally done by a publicly accountable body, usually a parliament, passing legislation in a transparent and contestable manner.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/twitter-s-decision-to-ban-donald-trump-is-chilli...

Twitter is a privately owned platform that allows users to broadcast their messages.

At no point is the ability to make this broadcast a "right" that has anything to do with free speech. Twitter can, and does, allow whom they will, when they will, to use their platform - and this decision is completely separate to an individual's right to free speech.

And the idea that twitter's business decisions related to who they choose to allow or dissallow from their platform should be any sort of transparent process by some publicly accountable body - is utterly ridiculous.

"this decision is completely separate to an individual's right to free speech."

And therein lies your problem with modern society and free speech..

"Well, you see Willard, in this war, things get confused out there: power, ideals, the old morality, practical military necessity. But out there with these natives, it must be a temptation to be god, because there's a conflict in every human heart, between the rational and the irrational, between good and evil, and good does not always triumph. Sometimes, the dark side overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have one. Walter Kurtz has reached his, and very obviously, he has gone insane."

"He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct. And he is still in the field commanding troops".

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20231 Gordon Gender:	Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech Reply #6 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 5:36pm Ill read it later, but some of the arguments I've heard by some very reasonable people is that Twitter has become akin to a utility and it's the only game in town.
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Raven

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #7 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 7:05pm

There is no free speech “right” to appear on a particular platform.

There is also no free speech argument that guarantees any citizen the right to express their views on a specific platform.

It is ludicrous to suggest there is. If this “right” were to exist, it would mean any citizen could demand to have their opinions aired on the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald and, if refused, claim their free speech had been violated.

What does exist is a general right to express oneself in public discourse, relatively free from regulation, as long as one’s speech does not harm others.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Frank

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #8 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 7:52pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 3:21pm:

I read that peice too

It's quite ironic that a conservative should be advocating for the government to be able to tell a private company what it is allowed to do

The ayatollas of Iran are not censored by Twatter but the president is.

When a private company refused to bake gay cake, they were taken to court.

China must be laughing at the West and its twisted, ludicrous priorities.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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John Smith

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #9 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 8:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 9:55am:

The liberal member for Wentworth penned an op-ed in the SMH today in which he said:

Quote:

Trump has been stripped of his political voice, silenced, without reference to any law, and without the involvement of any court. Should this happen in a liberal democracy?

Putting aside the laughable idea that the US President, who at any moment can command the attention of the entire nation simply by stepping up to the White House podium, has been "silenced", Sharma clearly mistakes this action as a move to limit free speech:

Quote:

Free speech has its limitations in a free society. But when such limitations are imposed, it is normally done by a publicly accountable body, usually a parliament, passing legislation in a transparent and contestable manner.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/twitter-s-decision-to-ban-donald-trump-is-chilli...

Twitter is a privately owned platform that allows users to broadcast their messages.

At no point is the ability to make this broadcast a "right" that has anything to do with free speech. Twitter can, and does, allow whom they will, when they will, to use their platform - and this decision is completely separate to an individual's right to free speech.

And the idea that twitter's business decisions related to who they choose to allow or dissallow from their platform should be any sort of transparent process by some publicly accountable body - is utterly ridiculous.

he's wolf whistling to the idiot trump supporters in his electorate

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #10 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 8:18pm

Frank wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 7:52pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 3:21pm:

I read that peice too

It's quite ironic that a conservative should be advocating for the government to be able to tell a private company what it is allowed to do

The ayatollas of Iran are not censored by Twatter but the president is.

When a private company refused to bake gay cake, they were taken to court.

China must be laughing at the West and its twisted, ludicrous priorities.

The leftists are hypocrites when it comes to their business their rules when we look at the case of the baker who refused to bake a cake for a poofter wedding, if it was a muslim baker they might have backed the baker with that case.

Trump wasn't allowed to block anyone from twitter because that would violate the 1st amendment rights of that person since twitter said Trumps account was a government account because he is the POTUS. Since twitter brought up the 1st amendment with people not being allowed to be blocked by Trump it makes the 1st amendment relevant in this case.

Of course twitter and facebook blocked the NYPOST who broke the story on Hunter Bidens laptop and wouldn't allowed that to be posted claiming it was hacked material then Russian disinformation which was bullshit. Twitter and Facebook donated millions to the Democrats so we can see they have a clear agenda.
Quote:

DNI Ratcliffe: Hunter Biden Emails, Laptop ‘Not Part of Some Russian Disinformation Campaign’

Brittany Bernstein
October 20, 2020

Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe on Monday said Hunter Biden’s recovered laptop and emails, which purportedly show Joe Biden had involvement in his son’s foreign business dealings, are “not part of some Russian disinformation campaign.”

Ratcliffe’s comments, which refute claims made by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff that the emails are a smear attempt coming “from the Kremlin,”
https://news.yahoo.com/dni-ratcliffe-hunter-biden-emails-134549198.html

Twitter and Facebook were banned recently by Uganda because that African country doesn't want white leftists from the USA interfering with their election after they started banning accounts.

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Uganda.jpg (161 KB | 6 )

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17506 Gender:	Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech Reply #11 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 8:20pm Someone should tell that Jackoff they haven't shut down the internet they just banned his Twitter for unfairly blocking people. Uganda doesn't want white leftists from the US interfering with their election
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John Smith

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #12 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 8:23pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 8:18pm:

The leftists are hypocrites when it comes to their business their rules when we look at the case of the baker who refused to bake a cake for a poofter wedding,

I dealt with this one in another thread

John Smith wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 5:00pm:

As for selling cakes to gays ... why do you fools insist with that furphy? One can't refuse to serve someone a cake if they're gay because it breeches the sexual discrimination laws. That's it. Now if for example a gay man has entered the bakery and threatened the lives of the staff, or he licked all your buns, and then you wanted to ban him from your store you would be perfectly within your rights and allowed to do it.

There are no laws that protect trumps right to twitter or facebook. Stop embarrassing yourself with that crap

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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philperth2010

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #13 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 8:35pm

Trump is a serial liar and incites violence amongst his psychotic supporters....Twitter are not the only private company turning on Trump after he betrayed his office and incited mob violence, it is an avalanche....He has even lost hosting the British Open at his overpriced Scottish golf course....Trump is toxic???

Smiley

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Dave Sharma has no understanding of free speech
Reply #14 - Jan 13^th, 2021 at 8:47pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 8:23pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 8:18pm:

The leftists are hypocrites when it comes to their business their rules when we look at the case of the baker who refused to bake a cake for a poofter wedding,

I dealt with this one in another thread

John Smith wrote on Jan 13^th, 2021 at 5:00pm:

As for selling cakes to gays ... why do you fools insist with that furphy? One can't refuse to serve someone a cake if they're gay because it breeches the sexual discrimination laws. That's it. Now if for example a gay man has entered the bakery and threatened the lives of the staff, or he licked all your buns, and then you wanted to ban him from your store you would be perfectly within your rights and allowed to do it.

There are no laws that protect trumps right to twitter or facebook. Stop embarrassing yourself with that crap

It violates the 1st amendment rights with free practise therof with religion of the baker, constitutional rights protect the baker over non constitutional rights.

Twitter declared Trump cannot block people because that violates their 1st amendment rights because he is the POTUS so the 1st amendment is relevant here because Twitter raised that with blocking people.

Twitter donated millions to the Democrats we can see they have an agenda which is why their share price has crashed since banning Trump and it will not recover because those who were also banned will go elsewhere.

The market has spoken Twitter will lose more from this
Quote:

Twitter tanks after Trump ban

Twitter's share price tumbled after the US company permanently suspended Mr Trump's widely-followed account, spurring concern among investors over the future regulation of social networks.

Its stock plunged as much as 12 per cent (or $US5 billion in market value),
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-12/wall-street-fall-record-high-asx-vaccine-...

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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