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Alcohol ban Indonesia (Read 6150 times)
Gordon
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Alcohol ban Indonesia
Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm
 
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cods
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #1 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm
 
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #2 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:46pm
 
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


There's many things that are not a matter of life and death you wouldn't want to let go. Freedom to choose... your washing machine, iron, when you can cook, what you can cook and hair colour. Just because it doesn't impact you, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. What about all the Bintang employees? What about those that aren't Muslim like the Balinese? It's not a matter of life and death if you are forced by law to dress in a burka is it?

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #3 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:51pm
 
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.
Indonesia isnt 100 percent Muslim, they have significant minorities who enjoy a drink. This is about imposing Islamic values on the whole population.
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Gordon
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #4 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:57pm
 
As last two have said, it's not about the alcohol per se, it's about  religious authoritarianism.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #5 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:08pm
 

Their country, their laws.

Good luck to them.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #6 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:10pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:08pm:
Their country, their laws.

Good luck to them.



How inane can one get?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #7 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:16pm
 
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


Yep.

The only problem is, this means that all those bogans that go to Bali to get pissed night after night might end up staying in Australia for their holidays.

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Mjölnir
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #8 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:22pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:16pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


Yep.

The only problem is, this means that all those bogans that go to Bali to get pissed night after night might end up staying in Australia for their holidays.



And the Balinese are impoverished because their tourism industry is extinguished.
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rhino
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #9 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:30pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:16pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


Yep.

The only problem is, this means that all those bogans that go to Bali to get pissed night after night might end up staying in Australia for their holidays.

Bali is a tiny part of Indonesia, what it means is that we have a country on our doorstep becoming increasingly more radical and discriminatory towards their minority population. If this was happening in a white country you would be screaming your head off about it.
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Gordon
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #10 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:31pm
 
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:22pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:16pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


Yep.

The only problem is, this means that all those bogans that go to Bali to get pissed night after night might end up staying in Australia for their holidays.



And the Balinese are impoverished because their tourism industry is extinguished.


Greg hates Bali and the Australians who go there so he'll be happy. Mothra doesn't even want to go to the same airport as  Australians on their way to Bali.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #11 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:34pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:30pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:16pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


Yep.

The only problem is, this means that all those bogans that go to Bali to get pissed night after night might end up staying in Australia for their holidays.

Bali is a tiny part of Indonesia, what it means is that we have a country on our doorstep becoming increasingly more radical and discriminatory towards their minority population. If this was happening in a white country you would be screaming your head off about it.


I think he would be applauding it.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #12 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:36pm
 
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:34pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:30pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:16pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


Yep.

The only problem is, this means that all those bogans that go to Bali to get pissed night after night might end up staying in Australia for their holidays.

Bali is a tiny part of Indonesia, what it means is that we have a country on our doorstep becoming increasingly more radical and discriminatory towards their minority population. If this was happening in a white country you would be screaming your head off about it.


I think he would be applauding it.
Not if it affected him. pecca only travels to white countries.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #13 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:53pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:30pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:16pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


Yep.

The only problem is, this means that all those bogans that go to Bali to get pissed night after night might end up staying in Australia for their holidays.

Bali is a tiny part of Indonesia, what it means is that we have a country on our doorstep becoming increasingly more radical and discriminatory towards their minority population. If this was happening in a white country you would be screaming your head off about it.


I'd welcome it with open arms if this was happening here in Australia,

And that's coming from someone who loves his beer, wine and spirits.

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rhino
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #14 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:56pm
 
Bullsh1t
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #15 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:58pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:56pm:
Bullsh1t


No, it's true.

Beer, spirits, and both red and white wine.

Love the stuff!

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #16 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:02pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:53pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:30pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:16pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


Yep.

The only problem is, this means that all those bogans that go to Bali to get pissed night after night might end up staying in Australia for their holidays.

Bali is a tiny part of Indonesia, what it means is that we have a country on our doorstep becoming increasingly more radical and discriminatory towards their minority population. If this was happening in a white country you would be screaming your head off about it.


I'd welcome it with open arms if this was happening here in Australia,

And that's coming from someone who loves his beer, wine and spirits.



There you have it, someone who thinks Govco/religion should dictate your life. There should be no choice for anything other than what Govco allows.

What if Govco put you out of a job by nullifying unions and dictating a slave wage? All good too? Law of the country, etc? You are extremely vocal about Trump, why not "their govt good luck to them?" Can you see a schism between what you say about the US and Indonesia?

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #17 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:03pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:58pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:56pm:
Bullsh1t


No, it's true.

Beer, spirits, and both red and white wine.

Love the stuff!



So why would you favour a ban here greg?
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #18 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:05pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:58pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:56pm:
Bullsh1t


No, it's true.

Beer, spirits, and both red and white wine.

Love the stuff!


You don't have to love it.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #19 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:06pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:03pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:58pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:56pm:
Bullsh1t


No, it's true.

Beer, spirits, and both red and white wine.

Love the stuff!



So why would you favour a ban here greg?


It's obvious Islam is more important than his "love" of alcohol.

This is the same guy that would tell you that Govco banning the burka is a bad thing. Burkas before beer!
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #20 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:11pm
 
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:06pm:
It's obvious Islam is more important than his "love" of alcohol.



whats obvious is what a moron you are ... why don't you let him answer instead of pretending you have a clue?
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #21 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:13pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:11pm:
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:06pm:
It's obvious Islam is more important than his "love" of alcohol.



whats obvious is what a moron you are ... why don't you let him answer instead of pretending you have a clue?


Why? He's stated his position clearly in the past about Govco making laws about dress code, a choice. Now he is on the other side of the fence when Islam is being blamed, rightly, for this. You know what that is commonly called? Is it hypocrisy?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #22 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:21pm
 
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:13pm:
Why?



cause you're a moron
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #23 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:25pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:21pm:
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:13pm:
Why?



cause you're a moron


You're ripping it here. Your intellect is astonishing!
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #24 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:45pm
 

The ban is for health reasons, not religious reasons.

Seems some people just can't read English.

Oh dear   Roll Eyes

Or maybe they've had too much to drink.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #25 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:48pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:45pm:
The ban is for health reasons, not religious reasons.

Seems some people just can't read English.

Oh dear   Roll Eyes

Or maybe they've had too much to drink.



Don't play the retard. It does suit you but you should aim a little higher.

All women will wear the burka from this day forth, we are not dictatorial or trying to run your life by religious or governmental decree, it is for the health of our women, do we want them pale and skin cancer free or do we want them dying on their family through over exposure to the sun?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #26 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:52pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:03pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:58pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:56pm:
Bullsh1t


No, it's true.

Beer, spirits, and both red and white wine.

Love the stuff!



So why would you favour a ban here greg?


I'm not asking for it to be banned here.

I'm saying that if it was banned here, I'd welcome it.

Once again - I am not calling for a ban on alcohol in Australia.

The reason I'd support a ban, if it was implemented, is quite obvious.

Less domestic violence.

Less heart, kidney, and liver disease.

Less road trauma.

Less teen pregnancies.

etc.  etc.  etc.

I'd miss it - I LOVE a glass of wine with dinner - but I'm sure I'd manage.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #27 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:04pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:52pm:
Belgarion wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:03pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:58pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:56pm:
Bullsh1t


No, it's true.

Beer, spirits, and both red and white wine.

Love the stuff!



So why would you favour a ban here greg?


I'm not asking for it to be banned here.

I'm saying that if it was banned here, I'd welcome it.

Once again - I am not calling for a ban on alcohol in Australia.

The reason I'd support a ban, if it was implemented, is quite obvious.

Less domestic violence.

Less heart, kidney, and liver disease.

Less road trauma.

Less teen pregnancies.

etc.  etc.  etc.

I'd miss it - I LOVE a glass of wine with dinner - but I'm sure I'd manage.


For the sake of Islam.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #28 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm
 

There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #29 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:10pm
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #30 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:19pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm:
There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction


There's talk of US elections and president Trump, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #31 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:21pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm:
There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction
projection, the only one showing hysterical tendencies is you.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #32 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:41pm
 
I urge you all to get help.

It's a serious disease.

I'm not making fun of you - I'm genuinely concerned.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

If a foreign country talking about banning alcohol triggers, and upsets, you so much I can only assume that the drug has had a hold on you for quite some time now.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

Good luck with your journey.

Thoughts and prayers.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #33 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:48pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:41pm:
I urge you all to get help.

It's a serious disease.

I'm not making fun of you - I'm genuinely concerned.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

If a foreign country talking about banning alcohol triggers, and upsets, you so much I can only assume that the drug has had a hold on you for quite some time now.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

Good luck with your journey.

Thoughts and prayers.


Women, protect yourselves from skin cancer and pervy men. Do the right thing!
...
Your health is at stake!
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« Last Edit: Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:54pm by Mjölnir »  
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #34 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:04pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:41pm:
I urge you all to get help.

It's a serious disease.

I'm not making fun of you - I'm genuinely concerned.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

If a foreign country talking about banning alcohol triggers, and upsets, you so much I can only assume that the drug has had a hold on you for quite some time now.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

Good luck with your journey.

Thoughts and prayers.
you never fail with your histrionics. Lets see now, who has the alcohol problem here. A person such as yourself who has a few drinks, loses total control, goes on the internet and starts hysterically slandering and challenging people . Or someone making an observation about a foreign country. Hmmmm. The problem is Pecca, I know you have issues with alcohol, its blatantly obvious when you drink and post, I have dealt with a lot of alcoholics like you over the years, you lose control and thats the mark of a true alcoholic. The inability to keep control, like you.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #35 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:09pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:41pm:
I urge you all to get help.

It's a serious disease.

I'm not making fun of you - I'm genuinely concerned.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

If a foreign country talking about banning alcohol triggers, and upsets, you so much I can only assume that the drug has had a hold on you for quite some time now.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

Good luck with your journey.

Thoughts and prayers.
you never fail with your histrionics. Lets see now, who has the alcohol problem here. A person such as yourself who has a few drinks, loses total control, goes on the internet and starts hysterically slandering and challenging people . Or someone making an observation about a foreign country. Hmmmm. The problem is Pecca, I know you have issues with alcohol, its blatantly obvious when you drink and post, I have dealt with a lot of alcoholics like you over the years, you lose control and thats the mark of a true alcoholic. The inability to keep control, like you.


You should tell him how you really feel. Grin

Well, within reason...  Undecided
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #36 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:13pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:41pm:
I urge you all to get help.

It's a serious disease.

I'm not making fun of you - I'm genuinely concerned.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

If a foreign country talking about banning alcohol triggers, and upsets, you so much I can only assume that the drug has had a hold on you for quite some time now.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

Good luck with your journey.

Thoughts and prayers.
you never fail with your histrionics. Lets see now, who has the alcohol problem here. A person such as yourself who has a few drinks, loses total control, goes on the internet and starts hysterically slandering and challenging people . Or someone making an observation about a foreign country. Hmmmm. The problem is Pecca, I know you have issues with alcohol, its blatantly obvious when you drink and post, I have dealt with a lot of alcoholics like you over the years, you lose control and thats the mark of a true alcoholic. The inability to keep control, like you.


greggerypeccary: "I'd welcome it with open arms if this was happening here in Australia".


rhino:

...

Grin
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #37 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:17pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:13pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:41pm:
I urge you all to get help.

It's a serious disease.

I'm not making fun of you - I'm genuinely concerned.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

If a foreign country talking about banning alcohol triggers, and upsets, you so much I can only assume that the drug has had a hold on you for quite some time now.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

Good luck with your journey.

Thoughts and prayers.
you never fail with your histrionics. Lets see now, who has the alcohol problem here. A person such as yourself who has a few drinks, loses total control, goes on the internet and starts hysterically slandering and challenging people . Or someone making an observation about a foreign country. Hmmmm. The problem is Pecca, I know you have issues with alcohol, its blatantly obvious when you drink and post, I have dealt with a lot of alcoholics like you over the years, you lose control and thats the mark of a true alcoholic. The inability to keep control, like you.


greggerypeccary: "I'd welcome it with open arms if this was happening here in Australia".


rhino:

https://incels.wiki/images/thumb/a/a3/Trig.jpg/300px-Trig.jpg

Grin


I'm kinda imagining that is you and the text should be "but it's so big!"

edit: Sorry, I noticed you used a incel link to make your point. I feel for you.
Signed Chad.
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rhino
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #38 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:35pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:13pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:41pm:
I urge you all to get help.

It's a serious disease.

I'm not making fun of you - I'm genuinely concerned.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

If a foreign country talking about banning alcohol triggers, and upsets, you so much I can only assume that the drug has had a hold on you for quite some time now.

https://au.reachout.com/articles/alcohol-addiction

Good luck with your journey.

Thoughts and prayers.
you never fail with your histrionics. Lets see now, who has the alcohol problem here. A person such as yourself who has a few drinks, loses total control, goes on the internet and starts hysterically slandering and challenging people . Or someone making an observation about a foreign country. Hmmmm. The problem is Pecca, I know you have issues with alcohol, its blatantly obvious when you drink and post, I have dealt with a lot of alcoholics like you over the years, you lose control and thats the mark of a true alcoholic. The inability to keep control, like you.


greggerypeccary: "I'd welcome it with open arms if this was happening here in Australia".


rhino:

https://incels.wiki/images/thumb/a/a3/Trig.jpg/300px-Trig.jpg

Grin
Youve had a few. i can tell.  Wink
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #39 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:51pm
 
Finally, they'll get rid of all those drunken, thong wearing bogans who turned Bali into Australia's Tijuana.
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The West is not the intentional enemy of Islam, but it should be.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #40 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:03am
 
issuevoter wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:51pm:
Finally, they'll get rid of all those drunken, thong wearing bogans who turned Bali into Australia's Tijuana.
you appear to suffer from the same lack of knowledge as Pecca. Bali is not representative of and is a tiny part of Indonesia.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #41 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 6:07am
 
Anything Islamists do is OK by Peccar & Co.
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« Last Edit: Nov 21st, 2020 at 6:13am by Gnads »  

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #42 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 6:25am
 
issuevoter wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:51pm:
Finally, they'll get rid of all those drunken, thong wearing bogans who turned Bali into Australia's Tijuana.


Yep.

Sounds like a good move for their country.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #43 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:35am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:52pm:
Belgarion wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:03pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:58pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:56pm:
Bullsh1t


No, it's true.

Beer, spirits, and both red and white wine.

Love the stuff!



So why would you favour a ban here greg?


I'm not asking for it to be banned here.

I'm saying that if it was banned here, I'd welcome it.

Once again - I am not calling for a ban on alcohol in Australia.

The reason I'd support a ban, if it was implemented, is quite obvious.

Less domestic violence.

Less heart, kidney, and liver disease.

Less road trauma.

Less teen pregnancies.

etc.  etc.  etc.

I'd miss it - I LOVE a glass of wine with dinner - but I'm sure I'd manage.


Yes, these are all serious issues that are often exacerbated by alcohol,  but for the vast majority of those who enjoy a drink these things are not a problem.  To ban alcohol altogether though would cause far more problems than it solves. Look at how well prohibition worked in the US in the 1920s.
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #44 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:59am
 
Belgarion wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:35am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:52pm:
Belgarion wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:03pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:58pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:56pm:
Bullsh1t


No, it's true.

Beer, spirits, and both red and white wine.

Love the stuff!



So why would you favour a ban here greg?


I'm not asking for it to be banned here.

I'm saying that if it was banned here, I'd welcome it.

Once again - I am not calling for a ban on alcohol in Australia.

The reason I'd support a ban, if it was implemented, is quite obvious.

Less domestic violence.

Less heart, kidney, and liver disease.

Less road trauma.

Less teen pregnancies.

etc.  etc.  etc.

I'd miss it - I LOVE a glass of wine with dinner - but I'm sure I'd manage.


Yes, these are all serious issues that are often exacerbated by alcohol,  but for the vast majority of those who enjoy a drink these things are not a problem.  To ban alcohol altogether though would cause far more problems than it solves.


That's one theory.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #45 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:01am
 
The parties pushing for the alcohol ban are described as ultra-conservative Islamist parties, inspired and funded by Saudi Wahabist, they also persecute Indonesia's LGBTI community. They're also pushing for laws to criminalise sex outside of marriage and ban contraceptives and abortion.

Interesting to see who here supports the agenda of those parties.
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IBI
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #46 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:03am
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #47 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:14am
 

Interesting Sad to see who condones this sort of thing:

Intimate partner violence refers to any behaviour within
an intimate relationship that causes physical, psychological or sexual harm to those in that relationship. It includes acts of physical
aggression (slapping, hitting, kicking or beating), psychological abuse
(intimidation, constant belittling or humiliation), forced sexual inter-­
course or any other controlling behaviour (isolating a person from
family and friends, monitoring their movements and restricting access
to information or assistance). Alcohol consumption, especially at harmful and hazardous levels is a major contributor to the occurrence of intimate partner violence and links between the two are manifold. 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #48 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:41am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:14am:
Interesting Sad to see who condones this sort of thing:

Intimate partner violence refers to any behaviour within
an intimate relationship that causes physical, psychological or sexual harm to those in that relationship. It includes acts of physical
aggression (slapping, hitting, kicking or beating), psychological abuse
(intimidation, constant belittling or humiliation), forced sexual inter-­
course or any other controlling behaviour (isolating a person from
family and friends, monitoring their movements and restricting access
to information or assistance). Alcohol consumption, especially at harmful and hazardous levels is a major contributor to the occurrence of intimate partner violence and links between the two are manifold.



So, it seems that you are saying "If you like a beer, you are an inveterate wife beater".

Long bow, anyone?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #49 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:42am
 
Mix_Master wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:41am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:14am:
Interesting Sad to see who condones this sort of thing:

Intimate partner violence refers to any behaviour within
an intimate relationship that causes physical, psychological or sexual harm to those in that relationship. It includes acts of physical
aggression (slapping, hitting, kicking or beating), psychological abuse
(intimidation, constant belittling or humiliation), forced sexual inter-­
course or any other controlling behaviour (isolating a person from
family and friends, monitoring their movements and restricting access
to information or assistance). Alcohol consumption, especially at harmful and hazardous levels is a major contributor to the occurrence of intimate partner violence and links between the two are manifold.



So, it seems that you are saying "If you like a beer, you are an inveterate wife beater".

Long bow, anyone?


Introspection, perhaps?

For full disclosure, I don't drink and have never been divorced Smiley
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IBI
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #50 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 11:22am
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:42am:
Mix_Master wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:41am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:14am:
Interesting Sad to see who condones this sort of thing:

Intimate partner violence refers to any behaviour within
an intimate relationship that causes physical, psychological or sexual harm to those in that relationship. It includes acts of physical
aggression (slapping, hitting, kicking or beating), psychological abuse
(intimidation, constant belittling or humiliation), forced sexual inter-­
course or any other controlling behaviour (isolating a person from
family and friends, monitoring their movements and restricting access
to information or assistance). Alcohol consumption, especially at harmful and hazardous levels is a major contributor to the occurrence of intimate partner violence and links between the two are manifold.



So, it seems that you are saying "If you like a beer, you are an inveterate wife beater".

Long bow, anyone?


Introspection, perhaps?

For full disclosure, I don't drink and have never been divorced Smiley

Interesting, Pecca drinks, shows alcoholic tendencies, has been divorced and has a number of self professed failed relationships.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #51 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 11:50am
 
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 11:22am:
Gordon wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:42am:
Mix_Master wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:41am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:14am:
Interesting Sad to see who condones this sort of thing:

Intimate partner violence refers to any behaviour within
an intimate relationship that causes physical, psychological or sexual harm to those in that relationship. It includes acts of physical
aggression (slapping, hitting, kicking or beating), psychological abuse
(intimidation, constant belittling or humiliation), forced sexual inter-­
course or any other controlling behaviour (isolating a person from
family and friends, monitoring their movements and restricting access
to information or assistance). Alcohol consumption, especially at harmful and hazardous levels is a major contributor to the occurrence of intimate partner violence and links between the two are manifold.



So, it seems that you are saying "If you like a beer, you are an inveterate wife beater".

Long bow, anyone?


Introspection, perhaps?

For full disclosure, I don't drink and have never been divorced Smiley

Interesting, Pecca drinks, shows alcoholic tendencies, has been divorced and has a number of self professed failed relationships.


Ever noticed how with almost monotonous reliability, the most vocal are found to be practitioners of what they rail against?
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IBI
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #52 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:03pm
 
Mix_Master wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:41am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:14am:
Interesting Sad to see who condones this sort of thing:

Intimate partner violence refers to any behaviour within
an intimate relationship that causes physical, psychological or sexual harm to those in that relationship. It includes acts of physical
aggression (slapping, hitting, kicking or beating), psychological abuse
(intimidation, constant belittling or humiliation), forced sexual inter-­
course or any other controlling behaviour (isolating a person from
family and friends, monitoring their movements and restricting access
to information or assistance). Alcohol consumption, especially at harmful and hazardous levels is a major contributor to the occurrence of intimate partner violence and links between the two are manifold.



So, it seems that you are saying "If you like a beer, you are an inveterate wife beater".

Long bow, anyone?


I'm saying nothing of the sort.

Paranoid much?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #53 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:09pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 11:50am:
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 11:22am:
Gordon wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:42am:
Mix_Master wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:41am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:14am:
Interesting Sad to see who condones this sort of thing:

Intimate partner violence refers to any behaviour within
an intimate relationship that causes physical, psychological or sexual harm to those in that relationship. It includes acts of physical
aggression (slapping, hitting, kicking or beating), psychological abuse
(intimidation, constant belittling or humiliation), forced sexual inter-­
course or any other controlling behaviour (isolating a person from
family and friends, monitoring their movements and restricting access
to information or assistance). Alcohol consumption, especially at harmful and hazardous levels is a major contributor to the occurrence of intimate partner violence and links between the two are manifold.



So, it seems that you are saying "If you like a beer, you are an inveterate wife beater".

Long bow, anyone?


Introspection, perhaps?

For full disclosure, I don't drink and have never been divorced Smiley

Interesting, Pecca drinks, shows alcoholic tendencies, has been divorced and has a number of self professed failed relationships.


Ever noticed how with almost monotonous reliability, the most vocal are found to be practitioners of what they rail against?
yes, its called projection. Unable or unwilling to see or confront their own behaviour or faults they seek to transfer it onto others.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #54 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:13pm
 
Why would banning alcohol in a foreign country trigger someone in Australia sooooooo much?

I'm curious   Undecided

If alcohol disappeared of the face off the planet tomorrow, it wouldn't faze me in the slightest.

Some people just can't seem to live without it though.

...
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #55 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:18pm
 
Theres that histrionic attempted projection again.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #56 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:26pm
 
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


True. I do agree with the Moslem attitude to Alcohol.
In a desert region, it can be a real killer. Fools drink, like a Fools Gold. Bob Hawke could have done with some Moslem discipline. So too Dean Martin and many billions more around the world. God knows the First Nation's people's could have done with Islam to protect them from the Poison's of the World and here we are in one of the most virulent regions of the world.
As one Box Jellyfish survivor said to an alcoholic "So what's your poison?" Huh The Veils of Azlaroc are subtle shades of time. Some are more Australian than others.

Muad'dib

and the greening of Australia (Atreides).
...it has been written.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #57 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:31pm
 
JaSin. wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:26pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


True. I do agree with the Moslem attitude to Alcohol.


Gordon will now - according to his "logic" - call you a terrorist.

(I think it's the booze talking)
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #58 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:35pm
 
Excellent stuff.

Drive the tourists away from the filthy shite hole.

Drive it into the dirt and STOP GIVING THEM MONEY

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #59 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:37pm
 

Well, at least four people here support the ban (me, Valkie, JaSin, and cods).

The alcoholics seem to be outnumbered (and triggered).
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #60 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:38pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:03pm:
Mix_Master wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:41am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:14am:
Interesting Sad to see who condones this sort of thing:

Intimate partner violence refers to any behaviour within
an intimate relationship that causes physical, psychological or sexual harm to those in that relationship. It includes acts of physical
aggression (slapping, hitting, kicking or beating), psychological abuse
(intimidation, constant belittling or humiliation), forced sexual inter-­
course or any other controlling behaviour (isolating a person from
family and friends, monitoring their movements and restricting access
to information or assistance). Alcohol consumption, especially at harmful and hazardous levels is a major contributor to the occurrence of intimate partner violence and links between the two are manifold.



So, it seems that you are saying "If you like a beer, you are an inveterate wife beater".

Long bow, anyone?


I'm saying nothing of the sort.

Paranoid much?


No. Why would I be?

You've quoted an article which "links" harmful-level alcohol consumption with DV, and then suggested (in your question about "condoning" such behaviour) that people who drink are likely to perpetrate DV.

Not all people who drink commit DV (in any of its forms).

Not all people who commit DV, drink. Many, probably don't.

Then, you go on to ask this question:

Quote:
Why would banning alcohol in a foreign country trigger someone in Australia sooooooo much?


I suspect the "triggering" was more about your comment "If it were banned here, I couldn't care less", rather than what happens in Indonesia. In fact, I'd go one step further. The "triggering" is probably more about your attempts to "paint" anyone who rejects the idea of such a ban here as being "alcohol dependent", and adopting something of a smug, superior attitude to those same worthies.

I like a beer, and would be opposed to a ban here. I'd also oppose it there, because the people calling for it occupy some 147 seats in a 550+seat Parliament. I.e. they do not represent the majority of people in the country, much less the people of Bali.

Does that make me "triggered"? No.

Because I like a beer, does that make me guilty of DV? No. (Married for 24 years, and she's still here...must count for something, you'd think?)

This may come as a shock, but defending something (such as the freedom to drink alcoholic beverages) does not in and of itself make the defender a "triggered" alcoholic...

Much like the defenders of Free Speech...something like "I utterly reject what you are saying...but would defend to the death your right to say it!"
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #61 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:40pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:31pm:
JaSin. wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:26pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


True. I do agree with the Moslem attitude to Alcohol.


Gordon will now - according to his "logic" - call you a terrorist.

(I think it's the booze talking)

At least he's not addicted to bum-rooting Smith like you are. Don't come trying to piss in my pocket Peckerhead.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #62 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:44pm
 
Wow!  Shocked Shocked Shocked

I've never seen anyone pull apart Peccary like a fragmented brain fart - like what I just saw 'The' Mix-Master do with his blending of Peccary's comments into a 'whipped' cream.  Grin Cool
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #63 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:51pm
 
Mix_Master wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:38pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:03pm:
Mix_Master wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:41am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:14am:
Interesting Sad to see who condones this sort of thing:

Intimate partner violence refers to any behaviour within
an intimate relationship that causes physical, psychological or sexual harm to those in that relationship. It includes acts of physical
aggression (slapping, hitting, kicking or beating), psychological abuse
(intimidation, constant belittling or humiliation), forced sexual inter-­
course or any other controlling behaviour (isolating a person from
family and friends, monitoring their movements and restricting access
to information or assistance). Alcohol consumption, especially at harmful and hazardous levels is a major contributor to the occurrence of intimate partner violence and links between the two are manifold.



So, it seems that you are saying "If you like a beer, you are an inveterate wife beater".

Long bow, anyone?


I'm saying nothing of the sort.

Paranoid much?


No. Why would I be?

You've quoted an article which "links" harmful-level alcohol consumption with DV, and then suggested (in your question about "condoning" such behaviour) that people who drink are likely to perpetrate DV.

Not all people who drink commit DV (in any of its forms).

Not all people who commit DV, drink. Many, probably don't.

Then, you go on to ask this question:

Quote:
Why would banning alcohol in a foreign country trigger someone in Australia sooooooo much?


I suspect the "triggering" was more about your comment "If it were banned here, I couldn't care less", rather than what happens in Indonesia. In fact, I'd go one step further. The "triggering" is probably more about your attempts to "paint" anyone who rejects the idea of such a ban here as being "alcohol dependent", and adopting something of a smug, superior attitude to those same worthies.

I like a beer, and would be opposed to a ban here. I'd also oppose it there, because the people calling for it occupy some 147 seats in a 550+seat Parliament. I.e. they do not represent the majority of people in the country, much less the people of Bali.

Does that make me "triggered"? No.

Because I like a beer, does that make me guilty of DV? No. (Married for 24 years, and she's still here...must count for something, you'd think?)

This may come as a shock, but defending something (such as the freedom to drink alcoholic beverages) does not in and of itself make the defender a "triggered" alcoholic...

Much like the defenders of Free Speech...something like "I utterly reject what you are saying...but would defend to the death your right to say it!"


...

Don't worry, it's not happening in this country.

Have another drink - you'll be okay   Smiley
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #64 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:52pm
 
I don't drink, maybe a couple a year but I'd be enraged of a ban was proposed here.

And as I said earlier and so well pointed out by Sir Mix, the Indonesians proposing the ban are a very vocal political minority of Islamic fundamentalist who also persecute gays, want to ban out of sex marriage, ban contraception, abortion and also run interference for proponents of FGM.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #65 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:02pm
 
As you can see Mix-Master. Peccary 'replicates' (repeats) because he lacks the ability to take it further with something new to offer. He's a Replicant. This time its the 'trigger' response. Wait till he starts on Trump.  Wink
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #66 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:04pm
 
JaSin. wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:02pm:
As you can see Mix-Master. Peccary 'replicates' (repeats) because he lacks the ability to take it further with something new to offer. He's a Replicant. This time its the 'trigger' response. Wait till he starts on Trump.  Wink


There's no need to go further.

Some of us support the ban in Indonesia, and some of us don't.

Smiley

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #67 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:04pm
 
Islamic disciplines would sort out the aussie trash for some recycling like a good spiritual wash.
But Islam could learn some Convict disciplines too.  Wink
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #68 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:05pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:04pm:
JaSin. wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:02pm:
As you can see Mix-Master. Peccary 'replicates' (repeats) because he lacks the ability to take it further with something new to offer. He's a Replicant. This time its the 'trigger' response. Wait till he starts on Trump.  Wink


There's no need to go further.

Some of us support the ban in Indonesia, and some of us don't.

Smiley


Peccary just 'bent the knee'!!!  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


And now he goes back on his own words. By posting again to take it ...further  Wink
Too funny!  Grin Grin Grin
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« Last Edit: Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:33pm by JaSin. »  

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #69 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:30pm
 

It's hilarious to see violent & hateful Islamophobes coming out in support of human rights - i.e. their right to drink beer - for Muslims.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #70 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:54pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:51pm:
Finally, they'll get rid of all those drunken, thong wearing bogans who turned Bali into Australia's Tijuana.



Read the OP. Tourist areas would be exempt from the ban...
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #71 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:58pm
 
The Heartless Felon wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:54pm:
issuevoter wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:51pm:
Finally, they'll get rid of all those drunken, thong wearing bogans who turned Bali into Australia's Tijuana.



Read the OP. Tourist areas would be exempt from the ban...

I would agree with Issuevoter except its the Housos not the Boguns. Boguns are good poor. Housos are the grubs on ice and booze over at Orgy Island Bali.

I guess one has had to live in both Sydney and Melbourne to see the difference.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #72 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 5:43pm
 
The unshakeable word of The One True God is that alcohol is forbidden - unless it creates revenue...

There is hope for that kind of Musso yet!!
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #73 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 5:44pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:30pm:
It's hilarious to see violent & hateful Islamophobes coming out in support of human rights - i.e. their right to drink beer - for Muslims.




Well - that's a good Muslim - and he ain't even dead yet!!   Cool
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #74 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 6:57pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:52pm:

I'd miss it - I LOVE a glass of wine with dinner - but I'm sure I'd manage.
Alcoholics always say this sort of thing. Denial is part of it.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #75 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:03pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 6:57pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:52pm:

I'd miss it - I LOVE a glass of wine with dinner - but I'm sure I'd manage.
Alcoholics always say this sort of thing. Denial is part of it.


Hey, I'm sure you know.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #76 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:10pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:03pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 6:57pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:52pm:

I'd miss it - I LOVE a glass of wine with dinner - but I'm sure I'd manage.
Alcoholics always say this sort of thing. Denial is part of it.


Hey, I'm sure you know.

Yeah, I do. Dealt with quite  a lot of alcoholics professionally,  picked you from the beginning. People always think the only type of alcoholic is the one who spends their whole waking life under the influence. Not true, number of different types.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #77 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:12pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:30pm:
It's hilarious to see violent & hateful Islamophobes coming out in support of human rights - i.e. their right to drink beer - for Muslims.

Only as has been pointed out that Indonesia is not 100 percent Muslim which was the point that you missed.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #78 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:47pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:12pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:30pm:
It's hilarious to see violent & hateful Islamophobes coming out in support of human rights - i.e. their right to drink beer - for Muslims.

Only as has been pointed out that Indonesia is not 100 percent Muslim which was the point that you missed.


Lol   Grin

Nobody has ever claimed that Indonesia is 100% Muslim.

Have another drink, whino   Smiley

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #79 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:39pm
 
Of course Greg wouldn't care. If he did he wouldn't carry on with all the spineless apologetics. Much better for women to be beaten by sober devout Muslims who really mean it.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #80 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm:
There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction



the idea of choo choo having to go without his beer is to much for him to handle .. it's all he has to look forward to in his life Cheesy
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #81 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm
 
Muslims are going crazy.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #82 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:57pm
 
They just want Christians to give them their Moslem Messiah to die for their sins.
Bye bye France. Sad
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #83 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:59pm
 
J.D. wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm:
Muslims are going crazy.


i thought you said they went crazy years ago  Roll Eyes
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #84 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:29pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:47pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:12pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:30pm:
It's hilarious to see violent & hateful Islamophobes coming out in support of human rights - i.e. their right to drink beer - for Muslims.

Only as has been pointed out that Indonesia is not 100 percent Muslim which was the point that you missed.


Lol   Grin

Nobody has ever claimed that Indonesia is 100% Muslim.


Sure you did, right here.
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:30pm:
It's hilarious to see violent & hateful Islamophobes coming out in support of human rights - i.e. their right to drink beer - for Muslims.


Theres no reason for you to claim this unless you think the alcohol ban will only affect Muslims. Btw, you had a "glass" of wine with dinner,  I can tell.  Wink

Quote:
Have another drink, whino   Smiley
Theres that attempted projection again.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #85 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:42pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm:
There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction



the idea of choo choo having to go without his beer is to much for him to handle .. it's all he has to look forward to in his life Cheesy


You've got me pegged Mimo. Religious fundies in Indonesia are trying to impose their will and the only reason I could be opposed to the idea is that I might miss out on a beer, here in Australia.

Your support for govt decrees banning shyte will be eagerly looked forward to the next time the burka banning thing is played out. Gregg's too.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #86 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:32pm
 
J.D. wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm:
Muslims are going crazy.



Muslims are going crazy.

Fixed for ya - no fee for the first correction - next time expect an invoice.... the Resistance Front can't work for nothing..... and the banks rob us to fund themselves, not the other way around...
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #87 - Nov 21st, 2020 at 10:33pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:12pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:30pm:
It's hilarious to see violent & hateful Islamophobes coming out in support of human rights - i.e. their right to drink beer - for Muslims.

Only as has been pointed out that Indonesia is not 100 percent Muslim which was the point that you missed.


Argh, aye, M'lod - but the government is............................................................
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #88 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 7:36am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 1:30pm:
It's hilarious to see violent & hateful Islamophobes coming out in support of human rights - i.e. their right to drink beer - for Muslims.



Same ol BS Peccarhead. Roll Eyes

Yes alcohol banned in Muslim doctrine

but it's OK to take drugs & chew Khat(another plant based drug) Roll Eyes
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #89 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 7:46am
 
Send Peccary Pig the invoice Grapps. He's been sponging for freebies since he joined here.
Peccary getting hammered on this Topic big time.  Grin
For someone who didn't want to take it... further.
He sure has a way of wallowing in the mud, even if its under a Freeway Truck Stop Toilet where you have to keep the lid closed when the weather gets warmer.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #90 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:06am
 
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:42pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm:
There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction



the idea of choo choo having to go without his beer is to much for him to handle .. it's all he has to look forward to in his life Cheesy


You've got me pegged Mimo. Religious fundies in Indonesia are trying to impose their will and the only reason I could be opposed to the idea is that I might miss out on a beer, here in Australia.

Your support for govt decrees banning shyte will be eagerly looked forward to the next time the burka banning thing is played out. Gregg's too.


How does John feel about banning the burqa?

And Pecca?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #91 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:17am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:42pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm:
There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction



the idea of choo choo having to go without his beer is to much for him to handle .. it's all he has to look forward to in his life Cheesy


You've got me pegged Mimo. Religious fundies in Indonesia are trying to impose their will and the only reason I could be opposed to the idea is that I might miss out on a beer, here in Australia.

Your support for govt decrees banning shyte will be eagerly looked forward to the next time the burka banning thing is played out. Gregg's too.


How does John feel about banning the burqa?

And Pecca?


It's a bit silly really.

I've never heard of a burqa causing heart, liver, or kidney disease.

Why would anyone want to ban a harmless piece of clothing?

I've never seen anything like this:

"Wearing burqas too much can harm your health.

"Excessive burqa wearing led to approximately 95,000 deaths and 2.8 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2011 – 2015, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 29 years.

"Further, excessive burqa wearing was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

"The economic costs of excessive burqa wearing in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink."

Have you?

I'm curious.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #92 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:19am
 
Would you support or oppose a burqa ban?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #93 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:21am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:19am:
Would you support or oppose a burqa ban?


Oppose.

Why would anyone want to ban a harmless piece of clothing?

Alcohol kills.

Dresses don't.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #94 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:25am
 
What about a ban on junk food?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #95 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:26am
 
If I ever see official health department warnings like this, I might change my mind:

"There is no safe time to wear a burqa during pregnancy.

"Burqas can cause problems for the developing baby throughout pregnancy, including before a woman knows she is pregnant.

"Wearing burqas in the first three months of pregnancy can cause the baby to have abnormal facial features.

"Growth and central nervous system problems (e.g., low birthweight, behavioral problems) can occur from wearing burqas anytime during pregnancy.

"The baby’s brain is developing throughout pregnancy and can be affected by exposure to dark clothing at any time."
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #96 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:27am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:25am:
What about a ban on junk food?


Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

Sounds like a good idea, actually.

Are you pushing for one here in Australia?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #97 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:38am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:27am:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:25am:
What about a ban on junk food?


Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

Sounds like a good idea, actually.

Are you pushing for one here in Australia?


What else would you like to ban?

Have you considered converting to Islam?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #98 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:43am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:38am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:27am:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:25am:
What about a ban on junk food?


Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

Sounds like a good idea, actually.

Are you pushing for one here in Australia?


What else would you like to ban?

Have you considered converting to Islam?


I'm not calling for a ban on anything, FD.

I'm just answering your questions.

So, are you pushing for a ban on junk food?

How would you determine what "junk food" actually is?

Alcohol is alcohol - there's no ambiguity there.

But your plan to ban junk food would be quite confusing without setting guidelines.

What's junk to you might not be junk to me.

See what I mean?

Maybe you'll need to work on your food ban a little longer   Undecided

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #99 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:05am
 
I'm not pushing for a ban on junk food, nor am I claiming that you are. I'm just asking what else you would like to see banned.

Also, have you considered converting to Islam?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #100 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:14am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:05am:
I'm not pushing for a ban on junk food, nor am I claiming that you are. I'm just asking what else you would like to see banned.

Also, have you considered converting to Islam?


I'm not asking to see anything banned.

And no, I wouldn't convert to any religion - I'll remain an atheist until the day I die.

What religion are you, FD?

I'm curious.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #101 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:26am
 
Would you like to see junk food and alcohol banned?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #102 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 11:39am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:17am:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:42pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm:
There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction



the idea of choo choo having to go without his beer is to much for him to handle .. it's all he has to look forward to in his life Cheesy


You've got me pegged Mimo. Religious fundies in Indonesia are trying to impose their will and the only reason I could be opposed to the idea is that I might miss out on a beer, here in Australia.

Your support for govt decrees banning shyte will be eagerly looked forward to the next time the burka banning thing is played out. Gregg's too.


How does John feel about banning the burqa?

And Pecca?


It's a bit silly really.

I've never heard of a burqa causing heart, liver, or kidney disease.

Why would anyone want to ban a harmless piece of clothing?

I've never seen anything like this:

"Wearing burqas too much can harm your health.

"Excessive burqa wearing led to approximately 95,000 deaths and 2.8 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2011 – 2015, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 29 years.

"Further, excessive burqa wearing was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

"The economic costs of excessive burqa wearing in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink."

Have you?

I'm curious.


Grin Is that why so many women(who have the guts)in hard line Islamist countries call for the cessation of forced wearing of these oppressive garments?

I suppose chastity belts are harmless so OK as well?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #103 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 11:47am
 
Peccary taking a belting this week by us.  Grin Grin

Anyway, the 'Fashion' or 'Spirituality' of the Burqa is designed for 'Desert Living'. It is a very superior form of attire to be worn in the Deserts. Only expensive Western wear can beat it.

I guess some things of Islam will move forward into the future, while others will fade into the past.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #104 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 11:49am
 
Looks like Greg has tied himself into yet another knot of his own BS.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #105 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 12:05pm
 
He's not on his game. Mix-Master dissected him easily in one post.
Peccary just doesn't have the answers anymore.
Is he going through a Trump withdrawal? Be like Cold Turkey now.

But hey, he hasn't been right since he promised to go twice, but stayed.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #106 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 12:37pm
 
Just imagine siding with a vocal minority of Islamo-fascists. Seriously, who the actual F would do that?

Anyone who's spent any time in Indo knows loads of non-observant Muslims and the 28 million Christians all want the freedom to enjoy a refreshing Bintang.

The population of Bali is only 4 million which is 80% Hindu so the laws would have the least effect there anyway.

Once again, what kind of a piece of crap would side with a small minority of ultra-conservative Islamist who if they had their way would plunge Indonesia into strict sharia law, banning abortion, contraception, out of marriage sex, and persecute LGBTI people.

Here are some very good words from an Indonesian activist.

But this time, those parties have taken a new line: that alcohol should be banned for health reasons, not religious reasons. And a passive response to the legislation by Indonesia’s dominant secular parties, which could have quashed it months ago, has some worried that it could become law.

“For me, it’s all about pluralism and human rights,” said Rudolf Dethu, a leader of two groups opposing the legislation, one of which organizes social events to promote the culinary aspects of beer.

“It’s not just about alcohol — there’s something bigger behind this,” Mr. Dethu said. “First it’s drinking, and then rules on who you can date and what time you can go out at night, and it’s not in the Indonesian culture to say no to authority.”

There have long been fears about creeping Islamization in Indonesia, which is the world’s most-populous Muslim-majority nation but has influential Christian, Hindu and Buddhist minorities. (The vast majority of Bali’s residents are Hindu.)

Political Islam has made gains here since Indonesia began moving toward democracy in 1998, after the ouster of its long-ruling authoritarian president, Suharto. In the past decade, autonomous regional governments have passed hundreds of local bylaws inspired by Islamic law, many of which enforce morality codes. The country’s Constitutional Court is currently hearing a petition by an Islamist group demanding that gay sex be outlawed, and that an existing adultery law be expanded to include sex between unmarried persons.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/world/asia/indonesia-bali-alcohol-ban-bill.ht...
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #107 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 12:39pm
 
Looks like someone may be on the wrong side this time, supporting voilent thugs.

Oh dear.


Critics of the Islamic parties backing the bill — which have the support of hard-line Muslim groups that have sometimes engaged in violent intimidation
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #108 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 3:42pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:14am:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:05am:
I'm not pushing for a ban on junk food, nor am I claiming that you are. I'm just asking what else you would like to see banned.

Also, have you considered converting to Islam?


I'm not asking to see anything banned.

And no, I wouldn't convert to any religion - I'll remain an atheist until the day I die.

What religion are you, FD?

I'm curious.


Cat got your tongue, dear?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #109 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 3:50pm
 
My hope?

That this alcohol ban is rolled out all over the shite hole.

And that the tourism industry totally collapses.

That the country goes full primitive and becomes nothing but a blot on a map.

And, most importantly

Australia stops sending millions to this shite hole.

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A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #110 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 3:59pm
 

FD claims that burqas are as dangerous as alcohol, but I haven't seen any warnings like this from health departments:

"Wearing burqas too much can harm your health.

"Excessive burqa wearing led to approximately 95,000 deaths and 2.8 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2011 – 2015, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 29 years.

"Further, excessive burqa wearing was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

"The economic costs of excessive burqa wearing in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink."


Why would someone try to compare the health risks of alcohol to burqas?

It makes no sense.

His call to ban junk food was a little closer to the mark.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #111 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 5:04pm
 
Quote:
FD claims that burqas are as dangerous as alcohol


Grin

No I don't.

Would you like to see junk food and alcohol banned? You can't seem to make up your mind on this one. Are you trying to say that you don't support it, you merely spinelessly apologise for it?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #112 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 8:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:42pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm:
There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction



the idea of choo choo having to go without his beer is to much for him to handle .. it's all he has to look forward to in his life Cheesy


You've got me pegged Mimo. Religious fundies in Indonesia are trying to impose their will and the only reason I could be opposed to the idea is that I might miss out on a beer, here in Australia.

Your support for govt decrees banning shyte will be eagerly looked forward to the next time the burka banning thing is played out. Gregg's too.


How does John feel about banning the burqa?

And Pecca?


I have no problem with you wearing a burka FD. In your case its probably an advantage
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #113 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 8:03pm
 
Mjölnir wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 9:42pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 8:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 9:08pm:
There's talk of alcohol being banned in another country, and we have Australians here triggered to the point of hysteria.

A little disturbing, to say the least.

https://au.reachout.com/tough-times/addiction



the idea of choo choo having to go without his beer is to much for him to handle .. it's all he has to look forward to in his life Cheesy


You've got me pegged Mimoo.



dam oaff I do.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #114 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm
 
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #115 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:50pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 3:59pm:
FD claims that burqas are as dangerous as alcohol, but I haven't seen any warnings like this from health departments:

"Wearing burqas too much can harm your health.

"Excessive burqa wearing led to approximately 95,000 deaths and 2.8 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2011 – 2015, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 29 years.

"Further, excessive burqa wearing was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

"The economic costs of excessive burqa wearing in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink."


Why would someone try to compare the health risks of alcohol to burqas?

It makes no sense.

His call to ban junk food was a little closer to the mark.



Burqa wearing females have a much higher rate of illness and disease than non Burqa wearing females mainly due to vitamin d deficiency and chronic obesity.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Attire_and_Health
Quote:
Islamic Dress and Health
Since almost all the daily intake of Vitamin D is from sunlight, exposure there is significant concern for women who wear the burqa or "full hijab". This style of dress, leaving only a very small portion of skin around the eyes exposed, greatly reduces the surface area of the body which sunlight is exposed to and hence reduces the amount of Vitamin D synthesized. Such low rates of Vitamin D production will quickly exhaust the bodies excess emergency stores of Vitamin D contained in the fat and the person will likely go into a deficient state.

Due to this reason, serious vitamin D deficiency is wide-spread in many Muslim majority countries. A study performed by doctors at King Fahd University Hospital in Saudi Arabia, showed that out of all 52 women tested, all had seriously deficient levels of Vitamin D and were at risk of many serious health problems, despite living in one of the sunniest places on the planet.[10] Furthermore, in a study undertaken in Jordan, 83.3% of women wearing the most covering style of Islamic dresses were found to be deficient in summer time. This is rather striking when compared to the fact only 18.2% of Jordanian men studied were found to be deficient.[11] Jordan, like Saudi Arabia, holds the distinction of being one of the sunniest places on the planet, so the effect of wearing the burqa on Vitamin D levels and health is profound.
Obesity
It has been noted that the observance of hijab, the garments and the traditions surrounding them, can discourage exercise both psychologically and practically.[22][23] The style of dress can make it easy to hide the bloat of a large meal, and it can be physically restrictive for those who wish to exercise, especially outdoors where one has to be aware of the weather (if it is too hot or humid). In the West, where most indoor gyms are mixed-sex, exercise without Islamic dress can be very difficult for observant Muslim women, and some forms of Islamic dress can make playing almost any sport nearly impossible.[22][23]

According to The Economist magazine’s world rankings, the countries with the highest obesity rates among women are Muslim countries[22] (data from 1999-2003 show 8 of the top 10 to be Muslim majorities; Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian territories, Lebanon, Albania, Bahrain, Egypt, and the United Arab Emirates),[24] and a 2006 study presented by Qatari expert Issam Abd Rabbu at the "Facts About Obesity" seminar, found that up to 70 percent of women living in the Gulf Arab states (Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates) were overweight or obese.[25] Dr. Abdul Rahman Musaiqir, head of the Arab Center for Nutrition at Bahrain University, has said the problem of obesity among women in the Gulf states is being disguised by their Islamic dress, and that obesity rates are much higher than in developed countries.[26]

A 2011 study issued by the National Commercial Bank (NCB), Saudi Arabia’s largest bank, found that the number of Saudis suffering from high blood pressure, diabetes and obesity is increasing at an alarming rate, and a survey released by the Saudi Diabetes and Endocrine Association (SDEA) in 2010 showed that over 70 percent of the Saudi population are "alarmingly obese".[27] Figures released by the Qatar Diabetes Association (QDA) state that 20% of the population has been diagnosed as diabetic in Qatar, and the disorder is affecting more and more children.[23] Some of the health problems associated with obesity include; heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, painful wear and inflammation on weight-bearing joints, breathing problems and sleep apnea.[28]


Didnt think that one out too well did you?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #116 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #117 - Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:30pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?
Islamic societies ban certain types of western clothing.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #118 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 12:28am
 
In regards to x11 Moslems who drowned, washed off rocks, fast because of the water-logged clothing.
Burqa is banned from all swimming activity.

What is desert attire in the Middle-East, becomes water-logged death traps in Oceania.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #119 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 3:02am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:53pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:30pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 7:16pm:
cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
be honest gordon  alcohol isnt a matter of life and death

good luck to them if they can ban it and keep it out....not sure why our culture has the need for drink to be honest.


Yep.

The only problem is, this means that all those bogans that go to Bali to get pissed night after night might end up staying in Australia for their holidays.

Bali is a tiny part of Indonesia, what it means is that we have a country on our doorstep becoming increasingly more radical and discriminatory towards their minority population. If this was happening in a white country you would be screaming your head off about it.


I'd welcome it with open arms if this was happening here in Australia,

And that's coming from someone who loves his beer, wine and spirits.


Well, it was only a week ago where I found that I did not like alcohol anymore. But, I support the right of people to keep drinking it if they wish. I bypass a tavern on my way to work 4 nights out of 7. 3 of those nights mean having to deal with drunken louts who do not give a damn about my right of passage or safety. But, they have the right to keep drinking until they become a problem.
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.-- .... -.-- / -.. .. -.. / -.-- --- ..- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #120 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:34am
 
rhino wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:50pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 3:59pm:
FD claims that burqas are as dangerous as alcohol, but I haven't seen any warnings like this from health departments:

"Wearing burqas too much can harm your health.

"Excessive burqa wearing led to approximately 95,000 deaths and 2.8 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2011 – 2015, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 29 years.

"Further, excessive burqa wearing was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

"The economic costs of excessive burqa wearing in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink."


Why would someone try to compare the health risks of alcohol to burqas?

It makes no sense.

His call to ban junk food was a little closer to the mark.



Burqa wearing females have a much higher rate of illness and disease than non Burqa wearing females mainly due to vitamin d deficiency and chronic obesity.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Attire_and_Health
Quote:
Islamic Dress and Health
Since almost all the daily intake of Vitamin D is from sunlight, exposure there is significant concern for women who wear the burqa or "full hijab". This style of dress, leaving only a very small portion of skin around the eyes exposed, greatly reduces the surface area of the body which sunlight is exposed to and hence reduces the amount of Vitamin D synthesized. Such low rates of Vitamin D production will quickly exhaust the bodies excess emergency stores of Vitamin D contained in the fat and the person will likely go into a deficient state.

Due to this reason, serious vitamin D deficiency is wide-spread in many Muslim majority countries. A study performed by doctors at King Fahd University Hospital in Saudi Arabia, showed that out of all 52 women tested, all had seriously deficient levels of Vitamin D and were at risk of many serious health problems, despite living in one of the sunniest places on the planet.[10] Furthermore, in a study undertaken in Jordan, 83.3% of women wearing the most covering style of Islamic dresses were found to be deficient in summer time. This is rather striking when compared to the fact only 18.2% of Jordanian men studied were found to be deficient.[11] Jordan, like Saudi Arabia, holds the distinction of being one of the sunniest places on the planet, so the effect of wearing the burqa on Vitamin D levels and health is profound.
Obesity
It has been noted that the observance of hijab, the garments and the traditions surrounding them, can discourage exercise both psychologically and practically.[22][23] The style of dress can make it easy to hide the bloat of a large meal, and it can be physically restrictive for those who wish to exercise, especially outdoors where one has to be aware of the weather (if it is too hot or humid). In the West, where most indoor gyms are mixed-sex, exercise without Islamic dress can be very difficult for observant Muslim women, and some forms of Islamic dress can make playing almost any sport nearly impossible.[22][23]

According to The Economist magazine’s world rankings, the countries with the highest obesity rates among women are Muslim countries[22] (data from 1999-2003 show 8 of the top 10 to be Muslim majorities; Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian territories, Lebanon, Albania, Bahrain, Egypt, and the United Arab Emirates),[24] and a 2006 study presented by Qatari expert Issam Abd Rabbu at the "Facts About Obesity" seminar, found that up to 70 percent of women living in the Gulf Arab states (Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates) were overweight or obese.[25] Dr. Abdul Rahman Musaiqir, head of the Arab Center for Nutrition at Bahrain University, has said the problem of obesity among women in the Gulf states is being disguised by their Islamic dress, and that obesity rates are much higher than in developed countries.[26]

A 2011 study issued by the National Commercial Bank (NCB), Saudi Arabia’s largest bank, found that the number of Saudis suffering from high blood pressure, diabetes and obesity is increasing at an alarming rate, and a survey released by the Saudi Diabetes and Endocrine Association (SDEA) in 2010 showed that over 70 percent of the Saudi population are "alarmingly obese".[27] Figures released by the Qatar Diabetes Association (QDA) state that 20% of the population has been diagnosed as diabetic in Qatar, and the disorder is affecting more and more children.[23] Some of the health problems associated with obesity include; heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, painful wear and inflammation on weight-bearing joints, breathing problems and sleep apnea.[28]


Didnt think that one out too well did you?


When burqas start killing people at the same rate as alcohol, let me know - okay?

Cheers   Wink
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #121 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 7:11am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:34am:
rhino wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:50pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 3:59pm:
FD claims that burqas are as dangerous as alcohol, but I haven't seen any warnings like this from health departments:

"Wearing burqas too much can harm your health.

"Excessive burqa wearing led to approximately 95,000 deaths and 2.8 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2011 – 2015, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 29 years.

"Further, excessive burqa wearing was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

"The economic costs of excessive burqa wearing in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink."


Why would someone try to compare the health risks of alcohol to burqas?

It makes no sense.

His call to ban junk food was a little closer to the mark.



Burqa wearing females have a much higher rate of illness and disease than non Burqa wearing females mainly due to vitamin d deficiency and chronic obesity.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Attire_and_Health
Quote:
Islamic Dress and Health
Since almost all the daily intake of Vitamin D is from sunlight, exposure there is significant concern for women who wear the burqa or "full hijab". This style of dress, leaving only a very small portion of skin around the eyes exposed, greatly reduces the surface area of the body which sunlight is exposed to and hence reduces the amount of Vitamin D synthesized. Such low rates of Vitamin D production will quickly exhaust the bodies excess emergency stores of Vitamin D contained in the fat and the person will likely go into a deficient state.

Due to this reason, serious vitamin D deficiency is wide-spread in many Muslim majority countries. A study performed by doctors at King Fahd University Hospital in Saudi Arabia, showed that out of all 52 women tested, all had seriously deficient levels of Vitamin D and were at risk of many serious health problems, despite living in one of the sunniest places on the planet.[10] Furthermore, in a study undertaken in Jordan, 83.3% of women wearing the most covering style of Islamic dresses were found to be deficient in summer time. This is rather striking when compared to the fact only 18.2% of Jordanian men studied were found to be deficient.[11] Jordan, like Saudi Arabia, holds the distinction of being one of the sunniest places on the planet, so the effect of wearing the burqa on Vitamin D levels and health is profound.
Obesity
It has been noted that the observance of hijab, the garments and the traditions surrounding them, can discourage exercise both psychologically and practically.[22][23] The style of dress can make it easy to hide the bloat of a large meal, and it can be physically restrictive for those who wish to exercise, especially outdoors where one has to be aware of the weather (if it is too hot or humid). In the West, where most indoor gyms are mixed-sex, exercise without Islamic dress can be very difficult for observant Muslim women, and some forms of Islamic dress can make playing almost any sport nearly impossible.[22][23]

According to The Economist magazine’s world rankings, the countries with the highest obesity rates among women are Muslim countries[22] (data from 1999-2003 show 8 of the top 10 to be Muslim majorities; Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian territories, Lebanon, Albania, Bahrain, Egypt, and the United Arab Emirates),[24] and a 2006 study presented by Qatari expert Issam Abd Rabbu at the "Facts About Obesity" seminar, found that up to 70 percent of women living in the Gulf Arab states (Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates) were overweight or obese.[25] Dr. Abdul Rahman Musaiqir, head of the Arab Center for Nutrition at Bahrain University, has said the problem of obesity among women in the Gulf states is being disguised by their Islamic dress, and that obesity rates are much higher than in developed countries.[26]

A 2011 study issued by the National Commercial Bank (NCB), Saudi Arabia’s largest bank, found that the number of Saudis suffering from high blood pressure, diabetes and obesity is increasing at an alarming rate, and a survey released by the Saudi Diabetes and Endocrine Association (SDEA) in 2010 showed that over 70 percent of the Saudi population are "alarmingly obese".[27] Figures released by the Qatar Diabetes Association (QDA) state that 20% of the population has been diagnosed as diabetic in Qatar, and the disorder is affecting more and more children.[23] Some of the health problems associated with obesity include; heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, painful wear and inflammation on weight-bearing joints, breathing problems and sleep apnea.[28]


Didnt think that one out too well did you?


When burqas start killing people at the same rate as alcohol, let me know - okay?

Cheers   Wink
Female Muslims generally dont drink alcohol.  WinkNot doing too well here are you?  Grin
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #122 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 8:29am
 
rhino wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 7:11am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:34am:
rhino wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:50pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 3:59pm:
FD claims that burqas are as dangerous as alcohol, but I haven't seen any warnings like this from health departments:

"Wearing burqas too much can harm your health.

"Excessive burqa wearing led to approximately 95,000 deaths and 2.8 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2011 – 2015, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 29 years.

"Further, excessive burqa wearing was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

"The economic costs of excessive burqa wearing in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink."


Why would someone try to compare the health risks of alcohol to burqas?

It makes no sense.

His call to ban junk food was a little closer to the mark.



Burqa wearing females have a much higher rate of illness and disease than non Burqa wearing females mainly due to vitamin d deficiency and chronic obesity.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Attire_and_Health
Quote:
Islamic Dress and Health
Since almost all the daily intake of Vitamin D is from sunlight, exposure there is significant concern for women who wear the burqa or "full hijab". This style of dress, leaving only a very small portion of skin around the eyes exposed, greatly reduces the surface area of the body which sunlight is exposed to and hence reduces the amount of Vitamin D synthesized. Such low rates of Vitamin D production will quickly exhaust the bodies excess emergency stores of Vitamin D contained in the fat and the person will likely go into a deficient state.

Due to this reason, serious vitamin D deficiency is wide-spread in many Muslim majority countries. A study performed by doctors at King Fahd University Hospital in Saudi Arabia, showed that out of all 52 women tested, all had seriously deficient levels of Vitamin D and were at risk of many serious health problems, despite living in one of the sunniest places on the planet.[10] Furthermore, in a study undertaken in Jordan, 83.3% of women wearing the most covering style of Islamic dresses were found to be deficient in summer time. This is rather striking when compared to the fact only 18.2% of Jordanian men studied were found to be deficient.[11] Jordan, like Saudi Arabia, holds the distinction of being one of the sunniest places on the planet, so the effect of wearing the burqa on Vitamin D levels and health is profound.
Obesity
It has been noted that the observance of hijab, the garments and the traditions surrounding them, can discourage exercise both psychologically and practically.[22][23] The style of dress can make it easy to hide the bloat of a large meal, and it can be physically restrictive for those who wish to exercise, especially outdoors where one has to be aware of the weather (if it is too hot or humid). In the West, where most indoor gyms are mixed-sex, exercise without Islamic dress can be very difficult for observant Muslim women, and some forms of Islamic dress can make playing almost any sport nearly impossible.[22][23]

According to The Economist magazine’s world rankings, the countries with the highest obesity rates among women are Muslim countries[22] (data from 1999-2003 show 8 of the top 10 to be Muslim majorities; Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian territories, Lebanon, Albania, Bahrain, Egypt, and the United Arab Emirates),[24] and a 2006 study presented by Qatari expert Issam Abd Rabbu at the "Facts About Obesity" seminar, found that up to 70 percent of women living in the Gulf Arab states (Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates) were overweight or obese.[25] Dr. Abdul Rahman Musaiqir, head of the Arab Center for Nutrition at Bahrain University, has said the problem of obesity among women in the Gulf states is being disguised by their Islamic dress, and that obesity rates are much higher than in developed countries.[26]

A 2011 study issued by the National Commercial Bank (NCB), Saudi Arabia’s largest bank, found that the number of Saudis suffering from high blood pressure, diabetes and obesity is increasing at an alarming rate, and a survey released by the Saudi Diabetes and Endocrine Association (SDEA) in 2010 showed that over 70 percent of the Saudi population are "alarmingly obese".[27] Figures released by the Qatar Diabetes Association (QDA) state that 20% of the population has been diagnosed as diabetic in Qatar, and the disorder is affecting more and more children.[23] Some of the health problems associated with obesity include; heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, painful wear and inflammation on weight-bearing joints, breathing problems and sleep apnea.[28]


Didnt think that one out too well did you?


When burqas start killing people at the same rate as alcohol, let me know - okay?

Cheers   Wink
Female Muslims generally dont drink alcohol.  WinkNot doing too well here are you?  Grin


White flag accepted   Wink

And that folks, shows you why it's so stupid to compare burqas banned in Australia with alcohol banned in Indonesia.

Another win for the GP man!   Smiley
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #123 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 8:54am
 
Still waiting for you to prove your claim that alcohol kills more Muslim females than Burqas.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #124 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 8:59am
 
rhino wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 8:54am:
Still waiting for you to prove your claim that alcohol kills more Muslim females than Burqas.


Lol   Grin

You should have quit while you were behind, like Gordon, FD, and JaSin.

Now you're just making yourself look rather pathetic.




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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #125 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 11:01am
 
Still waiting for you to prove your claim that alcohol kills more Muslim females than Burqas. Whats the issue with showing your proof?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #126 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 12:57pm
 
Nothing eh? Thought so.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #127 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 2:26pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:30pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?
Islamic societies ban certain types of western clothing.


anyone who bans any items of clothing is an idiot.

Besides, are they banning the clothing? or the lack of clothing? Cool
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #128 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 2:26pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?



FD didn't answer ... I wonder why?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #129 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 2:27pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:50pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 3:59pm:
FD claims that burqas are as dangerous as alcohol, but I haven't seen any warnings like this from health departments:

"Wearing burqas too much can harm your health.

"Excessive burqa wearing led to approximately 95,000 deaths and 2.8 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2011 – 2015, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 29 years.

"Further, excessive burqa wearing was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

"The economic costs of excessive burqa wearing in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink."


Why would someone try to compare the health risks of alcohol to burqas?

It makes no sense.

His call to ban junk food was a little closer to the mark.



Burqa wearing females have a much higher rate of illness and disease than non Burqa wearing females mainly due to vitamin d deficiency and chronic obesity.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Attire_and_Health
Quote:
Islamic Dress and Health
Since almost all the daily intake of Vitamin D is from sunlight, exposure there is significant concern for women who wear the burqa or "full hijab". This style of dress, leaving only a very small portion of skin around the eyes exposed, greatly reduces the surface area of the body which sunlight is exposed to and hence reduces the amount of Vitamin D synthesized. Such low rates of Vitamin D production will quickly exhaust the bodies excess emergency stores of Vitamin D contained in the fat and the person will likely go into a deficient state.

Due to this reason, serious vitamin D deficiency is wide-spread in many Muslim majority countries. A study performed by doctors at King Fahd University Hospital in Saudi Arabia, showed that out of all 52 women tested, all had seriously deficient levels of Vitamin D and were at risk of many serious health problems, despite living in one of the sunniest places on the planet.[10] Furthermore, in a study undertaken in Jordan, 83.3% of women wearing the most covering style of Islamic dresses were found to be deficient in summer time. This is rather striking when compared to the fact only 18.2% of Jordanian men studied were found to be deficient.[11] Jordan, like Saudi Arabia, holds the distinction of being one of the sunniest places on the planet, so the effect of wearing the burqa on Vitamin D levels and health is profound.
Obesity
It has been noted that the observance of hijab, the garments and the traditions surrounding them, can discourage exercise both psychologically and practically.[22][23] The style of dress can make it easy to hide the bloat of a large meal, and it can be physically restrictive for those who wish to exercise, especially outdoors where one has to be aware of the weather (if it is too hot or humid). In the West, where most indoor gyms are mixed-sex, exercise without Islamic dress can be very difficult for observant Muslim women, and some forms of Islamic dress can make playing almost any sport nearly impossible.[22][23]

According to The Economist magazine’s world rankings, the countries with the highest obesity rates among women are Muslim countries[22] (data from 1999-2003 show 8 of the top 10 to be Muslim majorities; Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Palestinian territories, Lebanon, Albania, Bahrain, Egypt, and the United Arab Emirates),[24] and a 2006 study presented by Qatari expert Issam Abd Rabbu at the "Facts About Obesity" seminar, found that up to 70 percent of women living in the Gulf Arab states (Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates) were overweight or obese.[25] Dr. Abdul Rahman Musaiqir, head of the Arab Center for Nutrition at Bahrain University, has said the problem of obesity among women in the Gulf states is being disguised by their Islamic dress, and that obesity rates are much higher than in developed countries.[26]

A 2011 study issued by the National Commercial Bank (NCB), Saudi Arabia’s largest bank, found that the number of Saudis suffering from high blood pressure, diabetes and obesity is increasing at an alarming rate, and a survey released by the Saudi Diabetes and Endocrine Association (SDEA) in 2010 showed that over 70 percent of the Saudi population are "alarmingly obese".[27] Figures released by the Qatar Diabetes Association (QDA) state that 20% of the population has been diagnosed as diabetic in Qatar, and the disorder is affecting more and more children.[23] Some of the health problems associated with obesity include; heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, painful wear and inflammation on weight-bearing joints, breathing problems and sleep apnea.[28]


Didnt think that one out too well did you?


you'll find the same with people who always wear long sleeves and hats all the time ... do we ban long pants, long sleeve shirts and hats as well?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #130 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 2:55pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?


What about alcohol and fast food?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #131 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 3:20pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 12:13pm:
Why would banning alcohol in a foreign country trigger someone in Australia sooooooo much?

I'm curious   Undecided

If alcohol disappeared of the face off the planet tomorrow, it wouldn't faze me in the slightest.

Some people just can't seem to live without it though.


Some people rely on the sale of alcohol for a job. I have spent $1000 on alcohol in the last 6 months just to get me through the dull times. I could imagine a sudden disappearance of alcohol and the sale of alcohol to be the end of the taverns, bottle shops, pubs, and certain restaurants. It would become interesting to see how people in large numbers withdraw from not having any alcohol.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #132 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 2:55pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?


What about alcohol and fast food?


After you answer my question FD ... are you such an idiot? A simple yes or no will suffice.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #133 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:05pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 3:20pm:
It would become interesting to see how people in large numbers withdraw from not having any alcohol.



they'd find an alternative ...


or start bootlegging  Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #134 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:07pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 2:26pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:30pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?
Islamic societies ban certain types of western clothing.


anyone who bans any items of clothing is an idiot.

Besides, are they banning the clothing? or the lack of clothing? Cool


You mean like muzzos who will not let women wear skirts or go without head covering?

Yeah, I get it.

Muzzos 're idiots
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I HAVE A DREAM
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A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #135 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm
 
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #136 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 5:46pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:05pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 3:20pm:
It would become interesting to see how people in large numbers withdraw from not having any alcohol.



they'd find an alternative ...


or start bootlegging  Cheesy Cheesy


They would largely start going through various withdrawals and then just get over it. It is the alcoholics who will have personality changes the most considerable.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #137 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 5:57pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm:
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67



They don't all avoid it.

Many Muslims drink alcohol.

Just as many Catholics commit adultery, murder, steal, etc.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #138 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:07pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 2:26pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:30pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?
Islamic societies ban certain types of western clothing.


anyone who bans any items of clothing is an idiot.

Besides, are they banning the clothing? or the lack of clothing? Cool


No DP Smith - it would be a ban on the cultural & social reasons why women of that so called religion are forced to cover up from head to toe. Then banning that cloaking because of its patriarchal oppressive misogyny.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #139 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:12pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 5:57pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm:
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67



They don't all avoid it.

Many Muslims drink alcohol.

Just as many Catholics commit adultery, murder, steal, etc.



But supposedly not the ones who have come here in the last 2 decades or a tad longer.

The ones demanding the acceptance of Sharia, the Burka, Halal certification, women only days at public venues, polygamy for men only.

Get a grip  Roll Eyes
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #140 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:37pm
 
Gnads wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:12pm:
But supposedly not the ones who have come here in the last 2 decades or a tad longer.



wanna bet?  Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #141 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:41pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:04pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 2:55pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?


What about alcohol and fast food?


After you answer my question FD ... are you such an idiot? A simple yes or no will suffice.


No.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #142 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:41pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:37pm:
Gnads wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:12pm:
But supposedly not the ones who have come here in the last 2 decades or a tad longer.



wanna bet?  Cheesy Cheesy


So they're hypocrites & liars in their own mosques?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #143 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:58pm
 
Gnads wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:12pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 5:57pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm:
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67



They don't all avoid it.

Many Muslims drink alcohol.

Just as many Catholics commit adultery, murder, steal, etc.



But supposedly not the ones who have come here in the last 2 decades or a tad longer.



According to whom?

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #144 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 7:00pm
 
Gnads wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:41pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:37pm:
Gnads wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:12pm:
But supposedly not the ones who have come here in the last 2 decades or a tad longer.



wanna bet?  Cheesy Cheesy


So they're hypocrites & liars in their own mosques?


There are hypocrites and liars in all walks of life and all religions.

There are Christians who murder, steal, commit adultery, etc.

Similarly there are many Muslims who drink alcohol, and many of them are quite open about it.

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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #145 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 8:50pm
 
Gnads wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:41pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:37pm:
Gnads wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:12pm:
But supposedly not the ones who have come here in the last 2 decades or a tad longer.



wanna bet?  Cheesy Cheesy


So they're hypocrites & liars in their own mosques?


no different to every other religious nutter.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #146 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 8:51pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 7:00pm:
There are hypocrites and liars in all walks of life and all religions.

There are Christians who murder, steal, commit adultery, etc.



many 'mafiosi' for example are very religious.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #147 - Nov 23rd, 2020 at 9:14pm
 
Gnads wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:12pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 5:57pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm:
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67



They don't all avoid it.

Many Muslims drink alcohol.

Just as many Catholics commit adultery, murder, steal, etc.



But supposedly not the ones who have come here in the last 2 decades or a tad longer.

The ones demanding the acceptance of Sharia, the Burka, Halal certification, women only days at public venues, polygamy for men only.

Get a grip  Roll Eyes


The Quran outlaws alcohol and also allows it.

What does the fine print say about this?

Quote:
Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would have certainly found in it many inconsistencies.

https://quran.com/4/82




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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #148 - Nov 24th, 2020 at 5:27am
 
Moslems are like Aboriginals.
They both look towards Africa and all things 'the Land'.

That is why Islam will fail to be 'the' Middle-Eastern Religion (brought in by Namerica, Samerica, Sahul) and why Aboriginals will fail to become 'Republican Australians'.

...both 'serve' Africa.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #149 - Nov 24th, 2020 at 6:32am
 
Its a numbers game. Indo politicians are trying to pull the same stunt that worked for Erdogan in Turkey.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #150 - Nov 24th, 2020 at 7:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 6:41pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:04pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 2:55pm:
John Smith wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2020 at 9:07pm:
How do you feel about banning the burqa John?


i think only an idiot would advocate to ban an item of clothing. Are you such an idiot FD?


What about alcohol and fast food?


After you answer my question FD ... are you such an idiot? A simple yes or no will suffice.


No.


John Smith. Lying again.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #151 - Nov 24th, 2020 at 7:33pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 24th, 2020 at 7:31pm:
John Smith. Lying again.



what are you pretending I lied about now?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #152 - Nov 24th, 2020 at 7:38pm
 
You'll figure it out.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #153 - Nov 24th, 2020 at 7:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 24th, 2020 at 7:38pm:
You'll figure it out.



and in the meantime you'll keep deluding yourself
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #154 - Dec 2nd, 2020 at 2:02pm
 
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:10pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:03pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 6:57pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:52pm:

I'd miss it - I LOVE a glass of wine with dinner - but I'm sure I'd manage.
Alcoholics always say this sort of thing. Denial is part of it.


Hey, I'm sure you know.

Yeah, I do. Dealt with quite  a lot of alcoholics professionally,  picked you from the beginning. People always think the only type of alcoholic is the one who spends their whole waking life under the influence. Not true, number of different types.


Would you be surprised he's a self confessed drink driver?
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IBI
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #155 - Dec 2nd, 2020 at 2:26pm
 
I do not know about anyone else, but the hot weather really deters me from drinking alcohol. I can drink a mid-strength beer once a day before bed just for the relaxing and refreshing element to it. But, I would rather have water in this hot weather.

I could imagine that the ban on alcohol is probably the result of environmental factors in Indonesia, moreso than religious factors. Warm humid all year around there.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #156 - Dec 2nd, 2020 at 4:45pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


DILIGAF....Never been to Indonesia and have no intention of ever going to Indonesia....It is their country and their business!!!

Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #157 - Dec 2nd, 2020 at 4:48pm
 
Half of Indonesia belongs to our Sahulian Region.
Divided at the Wallace Line where Flora & Fauna from Gondwana meet Asia.
We should take it!
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #158 - Dec 2nd, 2020 at 7:13pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 2:26pm:
I do not know about anyone else, but the hot weather really deters me from drinking alcohol. I can drink a mid-strength beer once a day before bed just for the relaxing and refreshing element to it. But, I would rather have water in this hot weather.

I could imagine that the ban on alcohol is probably the result of environmental factors in Indonesia, moreso than religious factors. Warm humid all year around there.


It's the result of Islam. Slowly but surely turning the screws on people.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #159 - Dec 2nd, 2020 at 7:15pm
 
Gordon wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 2:02pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:10pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 7:03pm:
rhino wrote on Nov 21st, 2020 at 6:57pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:52pm:

I'd miss it - I LOVE a glass of wine with dinner - but I'm sure I'd manage.
Alcoholics always say this sort of thing. Denial is part of it.


Hey, I'm sure you know.

Yeah, I do. Dealt with quite  a lot of alcoholics professionally,  picked you from the beginning. People always think the only type of alcoholic is the one who spends their whole waking life under the influence. Not true, number of different types.


Would you be surprised he's a self confessed drink driver?

Not at all, in fact it goes with the territory. Pecca has shown he is that particular type of alcoholic who loses complete control over his actions and becomes impulsive with no thought of consequences for his actions.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #160 - Dec 3rd, 2020 at 8:08am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm:
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67



interpretation: use the 'wholesome provision' proviced by these plants while avoiding the intoxicants.

eg - eat grapes but don't make intoxicants (wine) out of them.

Which is perfectly consistent with quran 5:90, which says to avoid 'intoxicants':

O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid1 it that you may be successful.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #161 - Dec 3rd, 2020 at 7:15pm
 
What does Islam say about punishing non-Muslims for drinking alcohol?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #162 - Dec 3rd, 2020 at 7:29pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2020 at 8:08am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm:
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67



interpretation: use the 'wholesome provision' proviced by these plants while avoiding the intoxicants.

eg - eat grapes but don't make intoxicants (wine) out of them.

Which is perfectly consistent with quran 5:90, which says to avoid 'intoxicants':

O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid1 it that you may be successful.


The Muhsin Khan translation of 16/67 says that verse was revealed before the prohibition of alcohol.

Alcohol was allowed in Islam Muhammad banned it when muslims started turning up for prayers while drunk.

Just another contradiction in the Quran muslims cannot admit to in hope of getting all those houris and rivers of wine in the Islamic afterlife.

Quote:
Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would have certainly found in it many inconsistencies.

https://quran.com/4/82


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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #163 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:15pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 3rd, 2020 at 7:29pm:
The Muhsin Khan translation of 16/67 says that verse was revealed before the prohibition of alcohol.

Alcohol was allowed in Islam Muhammad banned it when muslims started turning up for prayers while drunk.

Just another contradiction in the Quran muslims cannot admit to in hope of getting all those houris and rivers of wine in the Islamic afterlife.

[quote]
Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would have certainly found in it many inconsistencies.

https://.com/4/82


Why should anyone care about what Muhsin Khan says about this?

The Quranic verses can be assessed by their own words, not by others. And the two verses are perfectly consistent: from grapes comes both intoxicants (alcohol) and "wholesome provision" (nutritious food). 5.90 then expands on this by saying intoxicants should be avoided.

If you could just focus on the quranic words of these verses, and only these words, can you point to anything thats actually contradictory?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #164 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:23pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2020 at 8:08am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm:
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67



interpretation: use the 'wholesome provision' proviced by these plants while avoiding the intoxicants.

eg - eat grapes but don't make intoxicants (wine) out of them.

Which is perfectly consistent with quran 5:90, which says to avoid 'intoxicants':

O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid1 it that you may be successful.


How does that explain the Khat addictions in Africa & the Middle East?

Most are Muslim countries.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #165 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #166 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:18pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:23pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2020 at 8:08am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm:
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67



interpretation: use the 'wholesome provision' proviced by these plants while avoiding the intoxicants.

eg - eat grapes but don't make intoxicants (wine) out of them.

Which is perfectly consistent with quran 5:90, which says to avoid 'intoxicants':

O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid1 it that you may be successful.


How does that explain the Khat addictions in Africa & the Middle East?

Most are Muslim countries.


I'm not trying to explain Khat addictions.

I'm merely pointing out that there is no contradiction in the two quranic verses that are quoted.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #167 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #168 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 5:46pm
 
Housos go to Indonesia - it's where we dump the white trash.

Mauritius is the new and better choice. Man can those Mauritian girls go. One got me hammered on her local choice of Gin and had me give it to her. She had a 'degree' too.  Wink
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #169 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:56pm
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)

Theres 17,000 islands in Indonesia and 267 million Indonesians. , I always have a bit of a laugh at people who live in Bali as expats and pontificate about Indonesian politics. I could almost guarantee your golf club mate would not be able to name any of the top players in politics over there and cant speak the language. The other point that your mate should know if he lives over there but apparently does not is that Bali is turning increasingly Islamic, 15 percent of the Balinese population is now Muslim and Mosques and Madrassas are popping up everywhere built by Saudi money. Jokowi chose as his running mate last election a fellow called Ma'ruf Amin who is, you guessed it, a radical Muslim  who is now vice President and who just happens to be anti gay , anti Western and anti alcohol. The anti alcohol crusade is not being driven by secular groups (lol what nonsense) but by hard line Islamists who have already banned alcohol in most of Indonesias major cities.  Their stated aim is also to replace western tourism  in Bali which they see as demeaning to their culture and religion with Muslim tourism, this is already happening in other Christian areas of Indonesia which are basically being turned Islamic by force of numbers, the Saudi Mosque and Madrassa funding is basically targeted at these minority areas in order to turn them Muslim.
Quote:
The world’s largest Muslim-majority country was long considered a tolerant place. But thanks to Saudi money and influence, it has taken a sharply conservative turn.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/16/how-saudi-arabia-religious-project-...
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #170 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #171 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 6:55am
 
JaSin. wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 5:46pm:
Housos go to Indonesia - it's where we dump the white trash.

Mauritius is the new and better choice. Man can those Mauritian girls go. One got me hammered on her local choice of Gin and had me give it to her. She had a 'degree' too.  Wink


Taking a risk going there - pretty close to Madagascar - a plague hotspot.

Next time you may find yourself getting into a "degree" of bother worse than worrying about Covid19 ....

especially since you like to get up close & partake of some local indigenous equestrian activity.  Grin


Quote:
The outbreak is considered a much bigger threat to the region than in previous years because it has taken on its pneumonic form - meaning it is airborne and spread by sneezing and coughing
.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4765804/plague-black-death-madagascar-warning-brit...
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #172 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 7:35am
 
rhino wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.


Yes I agree -

this playing down what's really going on by poohooing and saying it's just a small group going through the motions of "at least we tried" is a naive nonsense.

It makes light of the 202 people killed in Bali in 2002 - 88 of which were Australians .....

just killed by PGs "try hards" ey?

It's how they operate globally a slow & steady takeover .......

all the time being helped by Saudi cash.

Muslim against Christian sectarian violence - including beheadings, bombings, destruction of churches has been occurring across PG's secular Indonesia for decades.

Suluwesi - more than a decade of violence against Christains - 1000's have been killed & many 100's displaced - in 2005 3 school girls were beheaded.

Banjarmasin riots Kalimantan(Borneo Island) 1997 - Christians killed - protestant & catholic churches, Buddhist temples, homes & Chinese businesses burned down.

2016 Jakarta protests against a Christian politician accused of blaspheming Islam. After losing the election he was found guilty of blasphemy & sentenced to 2 yrs jail in 2017.
President Joko Widodo attended this protest.

In 2000 - before the Bali bombings - there were a series of bombings in Jakarta & across 8 other cities - all targeting Christian churches.

Malaku (Moluccan) Islands - sectarian violence 1999 to 2003 - thousands killed & 500,000 displaced.
These islands were originally Melanesian but they have been killed off & displaced over a long period by Javans & Indonesias Transmigration policies - just like they have been doing in West Papua for 55 years.

2005 Palu market nail bombing in Suluwesi targeting Christians killed 8 wounded 53.

2016 Samarinda Church bombing in Kalimantan - killed a toddler & injured 3 other toddlers.

2018 Surabaya bombings - 3 Christian churches
an apartment complex & police headquarters - 28 killed including bombers & 50 injured.

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Dec 5th, 2020 at 7:57am by Gnads »  

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #173 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 1:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 7:13pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 2:26pm:
I do not know about anyone else, but the hot weather really deters me from drinking alcohol. I can drink a mid-strength beer once a day before bed just for the relaxing and refreshing element to it. But, I would rather have water in this hot weather.

I could imagine that the ban on alcohol is probably the result of environmental factors in Indonesia, moreso than religious factors. Warm humid all year around there.


It's the result of Islam. Slowly but surely turning the screws on people.


Extreme elements of Islam are situated mainly in the northwest of Indonesia -- not in Bali. I would not be surprised that the alcohol ban in parts of Indonesia has something to do with the traditionally non-alcohol drinking population of the past. Alcohol may only be a few decades old in many parts of Indonesia. So, banning alcohol is a natural redirection towards the conservative culture of Indonesia.
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.-- .... -.-- / -.. .. -.. / -.-- --- ..- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #174 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 2:35pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 7:35am:
rhino wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.


Yes I agree -

this playing down what's really going on by poohooing and saying it's just a small group going through the motions of "at least we tried" is a naive nonsense.

It makes light of the 202 people killed in Bali in 2002 - 88 of which were Australians .....

just killed by PGs "try hards" ey?

It's how they operate globally a slow & steady takeover .......

all the time being helped by Saudi cash.

Muslim against Christian sectarian violence - including beheadings, bombings, destruction of churches has been occurring across PG's secular Indonesia for decades.

Suluwesi - more than a decade of violence against Christains - 1000's have been killed & many 100's displaced - in 2005 3 school girls were beheaded.

Banjarmasin riots Kalimantan(Borneo Island) 1997 - Christians killed - protestant & catholic churches, Buddhist temples, homes & Chinese businesses burned down.

2016 Jakarta protests against a Christian politician accused of blaspheming Islam. After losing the election he was found guilty of blasphemy & sentenced to 2 yrs jail in 2017.
President Joko Widodo attended this protest.

In 2000 - before the Bali bombings - there were a series of bombings in Jakarta & across 8 other cities - all targeting Christian churches.

Malaku (Moluccan) Islands - sectarian violence 1999 to 2003 - thousands killed & 500,000 displaced.
These islands were originally Melanesian but they have been killed off & displaced over a long period by Javans & Indonesias Transmigration policies - just like they have been doing in West Papua for 55 years.

2005 Palu market nail bombing in Suluwesi targeting Christians killed 8 wounded 53.

2016 Samarinda Church bombing in Kalimantan - killed a toddler & injured 3 other toddlers.

2018 Surabaya bombings - 3 Christian churches
an apartment complex & police headquarters - 28 killed including bombers & 50 injured.

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I see no-one making light of that.  The perpetrators were Muslim, not Balinese.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #175 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 3:18pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 6:55am:
JaSin. wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 5:46pm:
Housos go to Indonesia - it's where we dump the white trash.

Mauritius is the new and better choice. Man can those Mauritian girls go. One got me hammered on her local choice of Gin and had me give it to her. She had a 'degree' too.  Wink


Taking a risk going there - pretty close to Madagascar - a plague hotspot.

Next time you may find yourself getting into a "degree" of bother worse than worrying about Covid19 ....

especially since you like to get up close & partake of some local indigenous equestrian activity.  Grin


Quote:
The outbreak is considered a much bigger threat to the region than in previous years because it has taken on its pneumonic form - meaning it is airborne and spread by sneezing and coughing
.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4765804/plague-black-death-madagascar-warning-brit...


True. I wouldn't go there (or anywhere) currently due to Corona. Plenty of Mauritian & Reunion Girls here to enjoy.
Gnads gets the ReUNION girls though.  Cheesy
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #176 - Dec 6th, 2020 at 7:00am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 1:24pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 7:13pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 2:26pm:
I do not know about anyone else, but the hot weather really deters me from drinking alcohol. I can drink a mid-strength beer once a day before bed just for the relaxing and refreshing element to it. But, I would rather have water in this hot weather.

I could imagine that the ban on alcohol is probably the result of environmental factors in Indonesia, moreso than religious factors. Warm humid all year around there.


It's the result of Islam. Slowly but surely turning the screws on people.


Extreme elements of Islam are situated mainly in the northwest of Indonesia -- not in Bali. I would not be surprised that the alcohol ban in parts of Indonesia has something to do with the traditionally non-alcohol drinking population of the past. Alcohol may only be a few decades old in many parts of Indonesia. So, banning alcohol is a natural redirection towards the conservative culture of Indonesia.


Islamic extremism is situated either side of Bali. East/Nth East and West. In fact you could say surrounded.

Ever heard of Aceh? Large full on Islamic/Sharia province.

Remember the big tsunami?

We sent a heap of support over there in the shape of military helicopters & ADF personnel to assist - set up fresh water treatment plants etc.

Locals got very antsy reckoned we were going to take over - potshots taken at our helicopters

Ungrateful, suspicious little bastids.

The point is being made that Muslim/Islamist influence is being slowly asserted in Bali ..... more Muslims living there, more mosques being built...

there is only one way that is heading ... the same as been happening across all Indonesias island territories & colonial occupation of West Papua.

Most of the people who originally occupied the Moluccas/Maluku Islands, formerly the Spice Islands were Melanesians & pagans/animists ......

Javan expansionism has seen that demographic changed virtually completely to Asian Muslim with some pockets of Christianity.....

that is nearly always being persecuted by Muslims.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #177 - Dec 6th, 2020 at 7:08am
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 2:35pm:
Gnads wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 7:35am:
rhino wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.


Yes I agree -

this playing down what's really going on by poohooing and saying it's just a small group going through the motions of "at least we tried" is a naive nonsense.

It makes light of the 202 people killed in Bali in 2002 - 88 of which were Australians .....

just killed by PGs "try hards" ey?

It's how they operate globally a slow & steady takeover .......

all the time being helped by Saudi cash.

Muslim against Christian sectarian violence - including beheadings, bombings, destruction of churches has been occurring across PG's secular Indonesia for decades.

Suluwesi - more than a decade of violence against Christains - 1000's have been killed & many 100's displaced - in 2005 3 school girls were beheaded.

Banjarmasin riots Kalimantan(Borneo Island) 1997 - Christians killed - protestant & catholic churches, Buddhist temples, homes & Chinese businesses burned down.

2016 Jakarta protests against a Christian politician accused of blaspheming Islam. After losing the election he was found guilty of blasphemy & sentenced to 2 yrs jail in 2017.
President Joko Widodo attended this protest.

In 2000 - before the Bali bombings - there were a series of bombings in Jakarta & across 8 other cities - all targeting Christian churches.

Malaku (Moluccan) Islands - sectarian violence 1999 to 2003 - thousands killed & 500,000 displaced.
These islands were originally Melanesian but they have been killed off & displaced over a long period by Javans & Indonesias Transmigration policies - just like they have been doing in West Papua for 55 years.

2005 Palu market nail bombing in Suluwesi targeting Christians killed 8 wounded 53.

2016 Samarinda Church bombing in Kalimantan - killed a toddler & injured 3 other toddlers.

2018 Surabaya bombings - 3 Christian churches
an apartment complex & police headquarters - 28 killed including bombers & 50 injured.

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I see no-one making light of that.  The perpetrators were Muslim, not Balinese.


You ought read the brief instead of making it up.

I never said anything about perpetrators being Balinese

I was responding to the claim about Indonesia being fiercely secular .......

and my examples were of the actual sectarian violence being perpetrated across Indonesia by Islamists.

And the fact that the number of Muslims & mosques are increasing in Bali.

Bali - one little island in the middle of the archipelago will not stay Hindu only forever

Islamists wont allow it. 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #178 - Dec 6th, 2020 at 8:08am
 
Let's make hay while the Sun shines then, ey?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #179 - Dec 6th, 2020 at 8:21am
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 6th, 2020 at 8:08am:
Let's make hay while the Sun shines then, ey?


Sure off you go .... I wouldn't go anywhere within Indonesian borders let alone the dive of Bali.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #180 - Dec 6th, 2020 at 9:20am
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 6th, 2020 at 8:21am:
Aussie wrote on Dec 6th, 2020 at 8:08am:
Let's make hay while the Sun shines then, ey?


Sure off you go .... I wouldn't go anywhere within Indonesian borders let alone the dive of Bali.


Prior to meeting the bloke I referred to and cited, I had zero intent on going anywhere near the place.  He has changed my mind a tad.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #181 - Dec 7th, 2020 at 8:01am
 
rhino wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.


Sure, look no further than the 2019 election:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/academia/2019/08/01/poll-results-show-fear-of-isl...

The majority of Indonesians voted for secular/nationalist parties. The parties who had an Islamist platform, combined, reached only 20% of the vote.

In fact this trend was accentuated in this election - despite the scaremongering from the usual suspects that this was going to be the election in which the Islamists would take over.

You might also want to check the series of PEW surveys on muslim attitudes - where Indonesian muslims have some of the most inclusive/secular attitudes in the muslim world.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #182 - Dec 7th, 2020 at 2:34pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 7th, 2020 at 8:01am:
rhino wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.


Sure, look no further than the 2019 election:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/academia/2019/08/01/poll-results-show-fear-of-isl...

The majority of Indonesians voted for secular/nationalist parties. The parties who had an Islamist platform, combined, reached only 20% of the vote.

In fact this trend was accentuated in this election - despite the scaremongering from the usual suspects that this was going to be the election in which the Islamists would take over.

You might also want to check the series of PEW surveys on muslim attitudes - where Indonesian muslims have some of the most inclusive/secular attitudes in the muslim world.


So who is committing genocide in West Papau .... a land that was non muslim .... and still 62% non muslim .....

the 38% muslims are migrant Javanese.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #183 - Dec 7th, 2020 at 3:44pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 7th, 2020 at 8:01am:
rhino wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:
Pushing further towards being a total sharia state

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2020/11/12/last-call-house-resumes-deliberat...


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.


Sure, look no further than the 2019 election:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/academia/2019/08/01/poll-results-show-fear-of-isl...

The majority of Indonesians voted for secular/nationalist parties. The parties who had an Islamist platform, combined, reached only 20% of the vote.

In fact this trend was accentuated in this election - despite the scaremongering from the usual suspects that this was going to be the election in which the Islamists would take over.

You might also want to check the series of PEW surveys on muslim attitudes - where Indonesian muslims have some of the most inclusive/secular attitudes in the muslim world.
You might want to check your facts there champ, the current ruling party is certainly not secular. which means the people who voted them in, i.e. the majority did not vote for a secular party.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #184 - Dec 7th, 2020 at 3:53pm
 
Moslems put colonists in Irian Jaya to outbreed and replace the Papuans there. Considered 'Monkeys' - the poorly armed hill tribes and coastals (bows and arrows) are easy fodder for the Moslem troops and police. Being slowly killed off, displaced, shackled and pushed towards the border into PNG. Replaced with homes and communities built by the Moslem government and filled with colonists who work with authorities and military to 'replace' the monkeys who live in the trees.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #185 - Dec 8th, 2020 at 9:14am
 
rhino wrote on Dec 7th, 2020 at 3:44pm:
You might want to check your facts there champ, the current ruling party is certainly not secular. which means the people who voted them in, i.e. the majority did not vote for a secular party.


The facts are in the article I quoted, champ.

PDI-P is a secular party who has always emphasised nationalism above religion. No one with even a passing knowledge of Indonesian politics would dispute that.

If the 2019 election was a referendum on Islamism in Indonesia (as many outside commentators claimed), then secularism won hands down. The only parties that put Islam front and centre of their platform and agenda scored a paltry 20% of the vote combined. You are probably being deceived by tokenistic gestures like Jokowi choosing an Islamic cleric as his running mate, and his visit to Mecca just before the election. The reality though is that policies on religious issues barely got a look in on the PDI-P election campain, nor was it a feature in any of the public debates.

An understanding of Indonesian society and their attitude to religion requires nuance. While on the one hand they are quite a religious country, they consistently demonstrate a preference for secular leaders to rule their country.

eg - from one study:

Quote:
Analysis of political parties and voters’ attitudes affirmed the view that Indonesians favor parties that represent secular values, rather than parties that are rooted in Islamic principles; however, orientation towards secular politics does not necessitate a less religious or less Islamic population.


https://scholarexchange.furman.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1963&context=furm...

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #186 - Dec 8th, 2020 at 12:10pm
 
JaSin. wrote on Dec 7th, 2020 at 3:53pm:
Moslems put colonists in Irian Jaya to outbreed and replace the Papuans there. Considered 'Monkeys' - the poorly armed hill tribes and coastals (bows and arrows) are easy fodder for the Moslem troops and police. Being slowly killed off, displaced, shackled and pushed towards the border into PNG. Replaced with homes and communities built by the Moslem government and filled with colonists who work with authorities and military to 'replace' the monkeys who live in the trees.


No - muslims put colonists into West Papua ..

they changed the name to West Irian then to Irian Jaya.

Always West Papua.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #187 - Dec 8th, 2020 at 12:35pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 9:14am:
You might want to check your facts there champ, the current ruling party is certainly not secular. which means the people who voted them in, i.e. the majority did not vote for a secular party.


The facts are in the article I quoted, champ.

PDI-P is a secular party who has always emphasised nationalism above religion. No one with even a passing knowledge of Indonesian politics would dispute that.

If the 2019 election was a referendum on Islamism in Indonesia (as many outside commentators claimed), then secularism won hands down. The only parties that put Islam front and centre of their platform and agenda scored a paltry 20% of the vote combined. You are probably being deceived by tokenistic gestures like Jokowi choosing an Islamic cleric as his running mate, and his visit to Mecca just before the election. The reality though is that policies on religious issues barely got a look in on the PDI-P election campain, nor was it a feature in any of the public debates.

An understanding of Indonesian society and their attitude to religion requires nuance. While on the one hand they are quite a religious country, they consistently demonstrate a preference for secular leaders to rule their country.

eg - from one study:

Quote:
Analysis of political parties and voters’ attitudes affirmed the view that Indonesians favor parties that represent secular values, rather than parties that are rooted in Islamic principles; however, orientation towards secular politics does not necessitate a less religious or less Islamic population.


https://scholarexchange.furman.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1963&context=furm
...

Posted by: JaSin.  
you dont even know that the Indonesian vice President is a radical Islamist? Like I said, check your facts Champ, the Indonesians voted in a radical Islam agenda. Thats does not make them secular. How about learning some basics first before you argue eh?
Quote:
New Indonesian vice president's Islamist agenda draws scrutiny
Ma'ruf Amin is revered by many but criticized by rights groups
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/New-Indonesian-vice-president-s-Islamist-agenda...
Hardly a token gesture.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #188 - Dec 8th, 2020 at 3:19pm
 
rhino wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 12:35pm:
you dont even know that the Indonesian vice President is a radical Islamist? Like I said, check your facts Champ, the Indonesians voted in a radical Islam agenda. Thats does not make them secular. How about learning some basics first before you argue eh?


Rhino, I feel like you are lashing out hysterically because you know you've been caught out not knowing the basic facts yourself. Like what the PDI-P party actually stands for.

read the jakarta post article yet?

Yes Jokowi chose a cleric with relatively conservative views on social issues as his running mate. But 'radical'? That is of course entirely subjective. In today's vanacular, 'radical' in relation to Islam is usually reserved for those who support violence. Yet he has actually been outspoken against violence, and emphasises the importance of constructive dialogue to settle differences.

Its hardly the point though. Like I said, there was nothing like an Islamist agenda being promoted by any of the major parties during the campaign - least of all by PDI-P. If you asked most PDI-P voters they would probably tell you they would prefer not to have a conservative cleric as Jokowi's running mate - though they still voted for him in spite of that. Logic tells us that the vast majority of these voters voted for the party's secular platform and policies, not some 'radical' Islamist agenda that wasn't even raised during the campaign. As the jakarta post article explains, its likely Jokowi  misread the mood, erroneously thinking that the loud and violent protests that toppled Jakarta governor Ahok was a sign of bigger things to come - and hence why he chose Ma'ruf. In reality, there is little reason to think that Ma'ruf helped him pick up many, if any, extra votes.

Of course thats not to say Indonesia has not seen a surge of Islamism - it undoubtedly has. Yet starting from such a low base, it has a hell of a long way to go before Indonesian society stops being overwhelmingly secular.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #189 - Dec 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 6th, 2020 at 7:00am:
Islamic extremism is situated either side of Bali. East/Nth East and West. In fact you could say surrounded.

Ever heard of Aceh? Large full on Islamic/Sharia province.

Remember the big tsunami?

We sent a heap of support over there in the shape of military helicopters & ADF personnel to assist - set up fresh water treatment plants etc.

Locals got very antsy reckoned we were going to take over - potshots taken at our helicopters

Ungrateful, suspicious little bastids.

The point is being made that Muslim/Islamist influence is being slowly asserted in Bali ..... more Muslims living there, more mosques being built...

there is only one way that is heading ... the same as been happening across all Indonesias island territories & colonial occupation of West Papua.

Most of the people who originally occupied the Moluccas/Maluku Islands, formerly the Spice Islands were Melanesians & pagans/animists ......

Javan expansionism has seen that demographic changed virtually completely to Asian Muslim with some pockets of Christianity.....

that is nearly always being persecuted by Muslims.


I did not hear about the Aceh people taking shots at the ADF helicopters. I do accept that there would have been a lot of confusion in the days after the tsunami. But, the media did not seem to be interested in mentioning something newsworthy like this to stir up reader/viewer interest in the subject.

It is the 21st century, Gnads. Muslim influence is waning quite hard these days. With television being a basic necessity even in the most Muslim of areas, the influence of what they see on television will be the downfall of religious influence on the population.

As for Bali, if they want to keep international tourists to come to their region, they will have to make do with allowing the tourists to drink. Otherwise, Bali will have to deal with fewer tourists who are quite happy to remain sober. Perhaps the drunken Aussie tourist is the reason why Bali could be undertaking an alcohol ban.
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.-- .... -.-- / -.. .. -.. / -.-- --- ..- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #190 - Dec 8th, 2020 at 7:18pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 12:10pm:
JaSin. wrote on Dec 7th, 2020 at 3:53pm:
Moslems put colonists in Irian Jaya to outbreed and replace the Papuans there. Considered 'Monkeys' - the poorly armed hill tribes and coastals (bows and arrows) are easy fodder for the Moslem troops and police. Being slowly killed off, displaced, shackled and pushed towards the border into PNG. Replaced with homes and communities built by the Moslem government and filled with colonists who work with authorities and military to 'replace' the monkeys who live in the trees.


No - muslims put colonists into West Papua ..

they changed the name to West Irian then to Irian Jaya.

Always West Papua.


Yeah well, its kinda looking more like Irian Jaya, even if West Papua sounds better.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #191 - Dec 8th, 2020 at 7:40pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 3:19pm:
you dont even know that the Indonesian vice President is a radical Islamist? Like I said, check your facts Champ, the Indonesians voted in a radical Islam agenda. Thats does not make them secular. How about learning some basics first before you argue eh?


Rhino, I feel like you are lashing out hysterically because you know you've been caught out not knowing the basic facts yourself. Like what the PDI-P party actually stands for.

read the jakarta post article yet?

Yes Jokowi chose a cleric with relatively conservative views on social issues as his running mate. But 'radical'? That is of course entirely subjective. In today's vanacular, 'radical' in relation to Islam is usually reserved for those who support violence. Yet he has actually been outspoken against violence, and emphasises the importance of constructive dialogue to settle differences.

Its hardly the point though. Like I said, there was nothing like an Islamist agenda being promoted by any of the major parties during the campaign - least of all by PDI-P. If you asked most PDI-P voters they would probably tell you they would prefer not to have a conservative cleric as Jokowi's running mate - though they still voted for him in spite of that. Logic tells us that the vast majority of these voters voted for the party's secular platform and policies, not some 'radical' Islamist agenda that wasn't even raised during the campaign. As the jakarta post article explains, its likely Jokowi  misread the mood, erroneously thinking that the loud and violent protests that toppled Jakarta governor Ahok was a sign of bigger things to come - and hence why he chose Ma'ruf. In reality, there is little reason to think that Ma'ruf helped him pick up many, if any, extra votes.

Of course thats not to say Indonesia has not seen a surge of Islamism - it undoubtedly has. Yet starting from such a low base, it has a hell of a long way to go before Indonesian society stops being overwhelmingly secular.

uh no, Im fully aware of what the PDI -p allegedly stands for. There is however not an  arguement to be had to say they are secular when they have elected a radical Islamist as the vice President. They can call themselves secular all they want and the useful idiots like yourself can chant then same thing but their policies are not secular and neither is their leadership. The Nazis called themselves socialists, we all know how that ended up. As far as Indonesia having a long way to go before being overwhelming secular, no female gets a job in Muslim majority Indonesia without wearing at the minimum a headscarf. Christians and other minorities are increasingly being targeted by violence being overlooked by the government, the latest being a Church bombing in Sulawesi corresponding with the return to Indonesia of this man, Habib Rizieq Shihab a radical Muslim cleric who fled Indonesia to Saudi Arabia 3 years ago on charges of pornography. Strangely enough, after the latest elections   these charges have disappeared and he is free to pursue his hate terrorism.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #192 - Dec 8th, 2020 at 7:53pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
 
As for Bali, if they want to keep international tourists to come to their region, they will have to make do with allowing the tourists to drink. Otherwise, Bali will have to deal with fewer tourists who are quite happy to remain sober. Perhaps the drunken Aussie tourist is the reason why Bali could be undertaking an alcohol ban.
Conservative Indonesians hate Bali and the western mainly Australian bogan tourism industry there. Indonesia before Covid was having a big push to target upmarket Muslim tourism from the middle east. They managed to convert at least one major tourist area, Lake Toba from a primarily western tourist destination into a Muslim majority tourist destination before Covid hit. They would dearly .love to do the same to Bali I can assure you.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #193 - Dec 8th, 2020 at 8:31pm
 
rhino wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 12:35pm:
you dont even know that the Indonesian vice President is a radical Islamist?


Really?  According to Wikipedia his views are actually pretty mild:

Quote:
As MUI chair, Ma'ruf gave his support to regulations prohibiting pornography and supported a decree banning Ahmadiya activities. In addition, Ma'ruf "regretted" the Constitutional Court's ruling to reject a proposed ban on sexual activities of homosexuals in 2017, instead wanting "stern regulations".[13]

In 2012, Ma'ruf also issued a recommendation that Muslims not say Merry Christmas, citing the controversy associated with the saying.[14] However, in 2018, he noted that there was never an explicit ban of saying Christmas greetings issued by MUI, after a video of him saying Merry Christmas circulated.[15]

On Islamic terrorism, Ma'ruf stated that suicide bombers are not martyrs (shahid), and that the present time is the era for intellectual instead of physical warfare.[16] During the debates for the 2019 presidential election, he emphasized the importance of deradicalization in counterterrorism.[17]

[Source]

Hardly what I'd call "radical", Rhino.  Sure your Islamophobia isn't in play here?   Roll Eyes


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Someone wrote 8:4on Apr 27th, 2008:
So if the extremists are right and Islam...is antithetical to democracy, how do you account for countries with a majority muslim population that [are democratic?]
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #194 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 6:57am
 
Quote:
Of course thats not to say Indonesia has not seen a surge of Islamism - it undoubtedly has. Yet starting from such a low base, it has a hell of a long way to go before Indonesian society stops being overwhelmingly secular.


It takes a lot longer without the beheadings.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #195 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 7:52am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Gnads wrote on Dec 6th, 2020 at 7:00am:
Islamic extremism is situated either side of Bali. East/Nth East and West. In fact you could say surrounded.

Ever heard of Aceh? Large full on Islamic/Sharia province.

Remember the big tsunami?

We sent a heap of support over there in the shape of military helicopters & ADF personnel to assist - set up fresh water treatment plants etc.

Locals got very antsy reckoned we were going to take over - potshots taken at our helicopters

Ungrateful, suspicious little bastids.

The point is being made that Muslim/Islamist influence is being slowly asserted in Bali ..... more Muslims living there, more mosques being built...

there is only one way that is heading ... the same as been happening across all Indonesias island territories & colonial occupation of West Papua.

Most of the people who originally occupied the Moluccas/Maluku Islands, formerly the Spice Islands were Melanesians & pagans/animists ......

Javan expansionism has seen that demographic changed virtually completely to Asian Muslim with some pockets of Christianity.....

that is nearly always being persecuted by Muslims.


I did not hear about the Aceh people taking shots at the ADF helicopters. I do accept that there would have been a lot of confusion in the days after the tsunami. But, the media did not seem to be interested in mentioning something newsworthy like this to stir up reader/viewer interest in the subject.

It is the 21st century, Gnads. Muslim influence is waning quite hard these days. With television being a basic necessity even in the most Muslim of areas, the influence of what they see on television will be the downfall of religious influence on the population.

As for Bali, if they want to keep international tourists to come to their region, they will have to make do with allowing the tourists to drink. Otherwise, Bali will have to deal with fewer tourists who are quite happy to remain sober. Perhaps the drunken Aussie tourist is the reason why Bali could be undertaking an alcohol ban.


Bali is Indonesia - not it's own country with it's own govt.

Even though it's a little island with a large Hindu population.

It's Muslim population is over 13%.

Here's how the rest of the country sits with %s of Muslim population in regional locations/islands.


Quote:
Aceh                                      99.99 %      
Bali                                      13.37 %      
Bangka Belitung Islands      89.00 %      
Banten                              91.64 %      
Bengkulu                              97.29 %      
Central Java                      96.74 %      
Central Kalimantan              74.31 %      
Central Sulawesi              77.72 %      
East Java                              96.36 %      
East Kalimantan                      85.38 %      
East Nusa Tenggara                5.05 %      
Gorontalo                              96.66 %      
Jakarta                              83.43 %      
Jambi                              95.41 %      
Lampung                              95.48 %      
Maluku                              49.61 %      
North Kalimantan              65.75 %      
North Maluku                      74.28 %      
North Sulawesi                      30.90 %      
North Sumatra                      60.39 %      
Papua                              15.88 %      
Riau                                      87.98 %      
Riau Islands                      77.51 %      
South Kalimantan              96.67 %      
South Sulawesi                      89.62 %      
South Sumatra                      96.00 %      
Southeast Sulawesi              95.23 %
West Java                          97.00 %      
West Kalimantan              59.22 %      
West Nusa Tenggara              96.47 %      
West Papua                      38.40 %      
West Sulawesi                       82.66 %      
West Sumatra                       98.00 %      
Yogyakarta                       91.94 %


Secular? Yeah sure - with plenty of sectarian violence as well.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #196 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 9:00am
 
rhino wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 7:40pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 3:19pm:
you dont even know that the Indonesian vice President is a radical Islamist? Like I said, check your facts Champ, the Indonesians voted in a radical Islam agenda. Thats does not make them secular. How about learning some basics first before you argue eh?


Rhino, I feel like you are lashing out hysterically because you know you've been caught out not knowing the basic facts yourself. Like what the PDI-P party actually stands for.

read the jakarta post article yet?

Yes Jokowi chose a cleric with relatively conservative views on social issues as his running mate. But 'radical'? That is of course entirely subjective. In today's vanacular, 'radical' in relation to Islam is usually reserved for those who support violence. Yet he has actually been outspoken against violence, and emphasises the importance of constructive dialogue to settle differences.

Its hardly the point though. Like I said, there was nothing like an Islamist agenda being promoted by any of the major parties during the campaign - least of all by PDI-P. If you asked most PDI-P voters they would probably tell you they would prefer not to have a conservative cleric as Jokowi's running mate - though they still voted for him in spite of that. Logic tells us that the vast majority of these voters voted for the party's secular platform and policies, not some 'radical' Islamist agenda that wasn't even raised during the campaign. As the jakarta post article explains, its likely Jokowi  misread the mood, erroneously thinking that the loud and violent protests that toppled Jakarta governor Ahok was a sign of bigger things to come - and hence why he chose Ma'ruf. In reality, there is little reason to think that Ma'ruf helped him pick up many, if any, extra votes.

Of course thats not to say Indonesia has not seen a surge of Islamism - it undoubtedly has. Yet starting from such a low base, it has a hell of a long way to go before Indonesian society stops being overwhelmingly secular.

uh no, Im fully aware of what the PDI -p allegedly stands for. There is however not an  arguement to be had to say they are secular when they have elected a radical Islamist as the vice President. They can call themselves secular all they want and the useful idiots like yourself can chant then same thing but their policies are not secular and neither is their leadership. The Nazis called themselves socialists, we all know how that ended up. As far as Indonesia having a long way to go before being overwhelming secular, no female gets a job in Muslim majority Indonesia without wearing at the minimum a headscarf. Christians and other minorities are increasingly being targeted by violence being overlooked by the government, the latest being a Church bombing in Sulawesi corresponding with the return to Indonesia of this man, Habib Rizieq Shihab a radical Muslim cleric who fled Indonesia to Saudi Arabia 3 years ago on charges of pornography. Strangely enough, after the latest elections   these charges have disappeared and he is free to pursue his hate terrorism.


So no actual argument I see rhino. Just meaningless handwaving.

Do you even know what PDI-P policies are? You claim they are not secular, though I suspect thats just more baseless hand waving and you don't actually have a clue.

Please get back to me when you have some actual facts to bring to the discussion - instead of just meaningless hysterical hand waving.

Quote:
no female gets a job in Muslim majority Indonesia without wearing at the minimum a headscarf.


Grin Grin you really are a joke.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #197 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 9:53am
 
JaSin. wrote on Dec 7th, 2020 at 3:53pm:
Moslems put colonists in Irian Jaya to outbreed and replace the Papuans there. Considered 'Monkeys' - the poorly armed hill tribes and coastals (bows and arrows) are easy fodder for the Moslem troops and police. Being slowly killed off, displaced, shackled and pushed towards the border into PNG. Replaced with homes and communities built by the Moslem government and filled with colonists who work with authorities and military to 'replace' the monkeys who live in the trees.

True indeed but the question is why this evil is seldom, if ever, mentioned in the Australian media.
Interestingly the Japanese often refer to the Chinese as ‘monkeys’ (サル) often believing themselves to be racially closer to Europeans. The irrationality our species is capable of knows no limits. 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #198 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 10:21am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 9:00am:
rhino wrote Yesterday at 7:40pm:
polite_gandalf wrote Yesterday at 3:19pm:
you dont even know that the Indonesian vice President is a radical Islamist? Like I said, check your facts Champ, the Indonesians voted in a radical Islam agenda. Thats does not make them secular. How about learning some basics first before you argue eh?


Rhino, I feel like you are lashing out hysterically because you know you've been caught out not knowing the basic facts yourself. Like what the PDI-P party actually stands for.

read the jakarta post article yet?

Yes Jokowi chose a cleric with relatively conservative views on social issues as his running mate. But 'radical'? That is of course entirely subjective. In today's vanacular, 'radical' in relation to Islam is usually reserved for those who support violence. Yet he has actually been outspoken against violence, and emphasises the importance of constructive dialogue to settle differences.

Its hardly the point though. Like I said, there was nothing like an Islamist agenda being promoted by any of the major parties during the campaign - least of all by PDI-P. If you asked most PDI-P voters they would probably tell you they would prefer not to have a conservative cleric as Jokowi's running mate - though they still voted for him in spite of that. Logic tells us that the vast majority of these voters voted for the party's secular platform and policies, not some 'radical' Islamist agenda that wasn't even raised during the campaign. As the jakarta post article explains, its likely Jokowi  misread the mood, erroneously thinking that the loud and violent protests that toppled Jakarta governor Ahok was a sign of bigger things to come - and hence why he chose Ma'ruf. In reality, there is little reason to think that Ma'ruf helped him pick up many, if any, extra votes.

Of course thats not to say Indonesia has not seen a surge of Islamism - it undoubtedly has. Yet starting from such a low base, it has a hell of a long way to go before Indonesian society stops being overwhelmingly secular.

uh no, Im fully aware of what the PDI -p allegedly stands for. There is however not an  arguement to be had to say they are secular when they have elected a radical Islamist as the vice President. They can call themselves secular all they want and the useful idiots like yourself can chant then same thing but their policies are not secular and neither is their leadership. The Nazis called themselves socialists, we all know how that ended up. As far as Indonesia having a long way to go before being overwhelming secular, no female gets a job in Muslim majority Indonesia without wearing at the minimum a headscarf. Christians and other minorities are increasingly being targeted by violence being overlooked by the government, the latest being a Church bombing in Sulawesi corresponding with the return to Indonesia of this man, Habib Rizieq Shihab a radical Muslim cleric who fled Indonesia to Saudi Arabia 3 years ago on charges of pornography. Strangely enough, after the latest elections   these charges have disappeared and he is free to pursue his hate terrorism.


So no actual argument I see rhino. Just meaningless handwaving.

Do you even know what PDI-P policies are? You claim they are not secular, though I suspect thats just more baseless hand waving and you don't actually have a clue.

Please get back to me when you have some actual facts to bring to the discussion - instead of just meaningless hysterical hand waving.

Quote:
no female gets a job in Muslim majority Indonesia without wearing at the minimum a headscarf.


  you really are a joke.
Posted by

You are the joke, the facts are what policies are being enacted and how minorities are slowly being squeezed out. You know nothing about Indonesia as you have clearly demonstrated here,.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #199 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 10:35am
 
rhino wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 10:21am:
You know nothing about Indonesia as you have clearly demonstrated here


Says the person who claims that women in Indonesia can't get a job without wearing a head scarf. Do you stand by that idiotic claim rhino?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #200 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 11:28am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 10:35am:

[quote author=gandalf link=1605859300/199#199  ]
Says the person who claims that women in Indonesia can't get a job without wearing a head scarf. Do you stand by that idiotic claim rhino?

Absolutely. Thats because I know what happens there as opposed to reading about it from biased sources. Another thing is how difficult it is to build a church in Indonesia as opposed to building a mosque.
Quote:
The Building Permit Problem that Curses Indonesian Churches
Religious activities in Indonesia receive an apparent constitutional guarantee. Written in the 1945 Constitution of the Republic of Indonesia Chapter 29 verse 2, “The state guarantees the freedom of each citizen to embrace their respective religions and for religious worship according to their religion and belief.”

The reality, however, is contrary to what has been guaranteed and even adds to the long list of intolerant actions against religious minorities in Indonesia. It is evident as two churches across the country became the latest victims of radical Muslim groups.

https://www.persecution.org/2020/03/20/building-permit-problem-curses-indonesian...
you see Gandalf, Indonesia pretends to be secular, thats so useful fools such as yourself can spread that propoganda to westerners who dont know better. And up until round 5 years ago i might have agreed with you, but they have increasingly put enormous obstacles in front to anyone who isnt mainstream Muslim, and its getting worse. There is now an employment test put to non Muslims who wish to apply for any government job and good luck with passing it, the same test is not applied to Muslims. Its like the headscarf thing, you laugh at it but it is a very effective way of discriminating against non Muslims. Why? Think about it, every Muslim now knows before they enter a shop or any business premises which ones are operated by Muslims, this basically restricts minority businesses to only selling or dealing with their own minorities, you might have enough knowledge of real history to remember the yellow star that the nazis made the Jews put on the front of their shops, this is akin to exactly the same thing. And guess what, the government effectively does not allow a business not to identify with the religion of their because they claim that the constitution Pancasila means they must. I have seen all these things  creeping in over the last decade, they are disenfranchising minorities through the power of numbers and useful idiots like yourself support it by buying the BS that they are a secular government.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #201 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 11:31am
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 7:52am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Gnads wrote on Dec 6th, 2020 at 7:00am:
Islamic extremism is situated either side of Bali. East/Nth East and West. In fact you could say surrounded.

Ever heard of Aceh? Large full on Islamic/Sharia province.

Remember the big tsunami?

We sent a heap of support over there in the shape of military helicopters & ADF personnel to assist - set up fresh water treatment plants etc.

Locals got very antsy reckoned we were going to take over - potshots taken at our helicopters

Ungrateful, suspicious little bastids.

The point is being made that Muslim/Islamist influence is being slowly asserted in Bali ..... more Muslims living there, more mosques being built...

there is only one way that is heading ... the same as been happening across all Indonesias island territories & colonial occupation of West Papua.

Most of the people who originally occupied the Moluccas/Maluku Islands, formerly the Spice Islands were Melanesians & pagans/animists ......

Javan expansionism has seen that demographic changed virtually completely to Asian Muslim with some pockets of Christianity.....

that is nearly always being persecuted by Muslims.


I did not hear about the Aceh people taking shots at the ADF helicopters. I do accept that there would have been a lot of confusion in the days after the tsunami. But, the media did not seem to be interested in mentioning something newsworthy like this to stir up reader/viewer interest in the subject.

It is the 21st century, Gnads. Muslim influence is waning quite hard these days. With television being a basic necessity even in the most Muslim of areas, the influence of what they see on television will be the downfall of religious influence on the population.

As for Bali, if they want to keep international tourists to come to their region, they will have to make do with allowing the tourists to drink. Otherwise, Bali will have to deal with fewer tourists who are quite happy to remain sober. Perhaps the drunken Aussie tourist is the reason why Bali could be undertaking an alcohol ban.


Bali is Indonesia - not it's own country with it's own govt.



A surprisingly large number of Australians don't realise that.

Even idiots who go there every year for drunken holidays.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #202 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 1:03pm
 
rhino wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 11:28am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 10:35am:

[quote author=gandalf link=1605859300/199#199  ]
Says the person who claims that women in Indonesia can't get a job without wearing a head scarf. Do you stand by that idiotic claim rhino?

Absolutely. Thats because I know what happens there as opposed to reading about it from biased sources.



Quote:
I have seen all these things


The thing is rhino, such a stupid claim is so easily refuted. For example, if you really have been to Indonesia you've most probably been on Indonesian flights, where you would have found Indonesian flight attendants who rarely wear hijab. In fact they are usually mandated not to.

Here you go, here's Garuda showcasing their new flight attendant uniforms last year:

...

why aren't those girls wearing a scarf rhino? hmmm?

See, your problem with making such a bullshit claim rhino is that you don't have to physically step foot in Indonesia to know straight away that its BS. You just have to spend 5 minutes watching just about any news story on Indonesia to see proof of professional working scarf-less women - eg policewomen trying to control a protest, scarf-less journalists at a press conference, etc etc.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #203 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 1:05pm
 
Garuda is an International airline you fool.  And unlike yourself I actually have physically set foot in Indonesia having lived and worked there.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #204 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 1:31pm
 
rhino wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 1:05pm:
Garuda is an International airline you fool.
 

International airline that recruits Indonesian women. And you just assured me that Indonesian women cannot get a job without wearing a scarf.

Soooo - you are now saying that is not actually true?

I could embarass you further by posting picture of all the domestic flight attendants who don't wear hijab, but that would be like kicking a helpless puppy.

Quote:
And unlike yourself I actually have physically set foot in Indonesia having lived and worked there.


So you keep saying. You seem to think it gives some sort of licence to make demonstrably bullshit claims - like the claim that I just refuted with the greatest of ease - with just a single example. As someone so experienced with Indonesian society, surely you must have come across Indonesian police officers. Were they all wearing hijabs? You of course would know that wearing the hijab was actually banned in the police force until 2013 - and even after (grudgingly) lifting the ban after that, their employer (the state) refused to provide the headscarf. Does it seem odd to you rhino that if the scarf really was mandatory in the police force, the state doesn't actually issue it as part of their uniform?

Also, surely for a state institution like the police force, there would need to be some sort of law that mandates the headscarf compulsory - no? Do you know of such a law you can point to me rhino?
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« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2020 at 1:38pm by polite_gandalf »  

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #205 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 2:01pm
 
No, thats not what I said, Re read what i posted carefully and stop erecting strawmen, of course a country trying to present a secular face to the world and trying to cover the fact that they discriminate against minorities is going to be careful with these things that are visible internationally. What really matters is what Indonesian people experience on a daily basis. When you ever visit Indonesia  yourself get back to me. You are totally out of your depth here.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #206 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 2:34pm
 
Honestly rhino, using the "I've been there, so I know" debating method is one of the most pathetic forms of argument.

Its lazy and gives you the delusion that you don't have to make the effort of prosecuting an actual argument with actual evidence.

When were you there? Where exactly did you go? What social or professional circles did you converse in? I highly doubt you experienced all regions and all demographics that makes up the huge and disparate Indonesian society. You must also acknowledge that the context of one's visit to a country - such as the nature of the work or which particular people you associate with during your time there - skews your viewpoint and undoubtedly makes you less objective about your understanding of the society than you would be looking from the outside. I myself regularly visit Malaysia, but I would not pretend to have any great understanding about Malaysian society. My knowledge of the place comes from the friends and family I associate with, and the places those people go. Its obviously skewed by that context, and there are huge chunks of Malaysian society that I am not exposed to and that I wouldn't presume to make sweeping generalisations about just because I can say "I've been there".

rhino wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 2:01pm:
No, thats not what I said, Re read what i posted carefully and stop erecting strawmen


Good point, lets examine your exact words:

Quote:
no female gets a job in Muslim majority Indonesia without wearing at the minimum a headscarf.


I don't see much wriggle room for you there rhino, its pretty black and white - "no female", would mean "every single female" in muslim majority Indonesia - must wear a headscarf to get a job. Which would include your Indonesian flight attendants no?

Am I missing something there?

rhino wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 2:01pm:
What really matters is what Indonesian people experience on a daily basis.


Couldn't agree more. It is the overall mood/situation that counts. And yet, it was you who came out with the blanket claim about every single working woman in (muslim majority) Indonesia. Its not just that its so easy to refute with mere individual examples (like the flight attendants), more importantly it says a lot about your underlying prejudice that you would make such a patently false blanket statement in the first place - and somehow think its ok. And worse, defend it only with the inane "I've been there, you haven't, so there" non-argument.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #207 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 2:45pm
 
Im not interested in pedantism, like I said when you actually have travelled there get back to me. Ive spent time in villages and cities in Muslim and Christian areas, travelled through Sumatera, Java, Sulawesi and many of the smaller islands. I speak fluent Indonesian, have served as a government  translator, understand most of a couple of dialects. Now which one of us is more qualified to talk about what the average Indonesian experiences?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #208 - Dec 9th, 2020 at 4:23pm
 
...

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*Snort*ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz*Snort*ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone wrote 8:4on Apr 27th, 2008:
So if the extremists are right and Islam...is antithetical to democracy, how do you account for countries with a majority muslim population that [are democratic?]
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #209 - Dec 10th, 2020 at 6:23am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 4:23pm:
https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/google/223...

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*Snort*ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz*Snort*ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Do you suffer from narcolepsy?  Roll Eyes
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #210 - Dec 10th, 2020 at 8:14am
 
rhino wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 2:45pm:
Im not interested in pedantism, like I said when you actually have travelled there get back to me. Ive spent time in villages and cities in Muslim and Christian areas, travelled through Sumatera, Java, Sulawesi and many of the smaller islands. I speak fluent Indonesian, have served as a government  translator, understand most of a couple of dialects. Now which one of us is more qualified to talk about what the average Indonesian experiences?


Still doesn't justify demonstrably false statements like no Indonesian woman can get a job without the headscarf.

In fact, in makes it even worse - as you should know better.

Which then raises the obvious question - what else are you bulshitting about?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #211 - Dec 10th, 2020 at 3:51pm
 
Quote:
Honestly rhino, using the "I've been there, so I know" debating method is one of the most pathetic forms of argument.


So why did you stand up for Brian when he insisted he had travelled to Malaysia without getting his head chopped off, and that this was somehow relevant?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #212 - Dec 10th, 2020 at 4:06pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 10th, 2020 at 8:14am:
rhino wrote on Dec 9th, 2020 at 2:45pm:
Im not interested in pedantism, like I said when you actually have travelled there get back to me. Ive spent time in villages and cities in Muslim and Christian areas, travelled through Sumatera, Java, Sulawesi and many of the smaller islands. I speak fluent Indonesian, have served as a government  translator, understand most of a couple of dialects. Now which one of us is more qualified to talk about what the average Indonesian experiences?


Still doesn't justify demonstrably false statements like no Indonesian woman can get a job without the headscarf.

In fact, in makes it even worse - as you should know better.
only I didnt state that at all. Read my comment again in context.

Quote:
Which then raises the obvious question - what else are you bulshitting about?
I never lie  for the sake of my argument, unlike others on this forum.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #213 - Dec 10th, 2020 at 4:33pm
 
Moslem women consider Ned Kelly a ladies man.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #214 - Dec 10th, 2020 at 8:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 10th, 2020 at 3:51pm:
Quote:
Honestly rhino, using the "I've been there, so I know" debating method is one of the most pathetic forms of argument.


So why did you stand up for Brian when he insisted he had travelled to Malaysia without getting his head chopped off, and that this was somehow relevant?


The "witnessed it for myself" argument is valid. Except Brian has a habit of demanding that the media make it public for him to believe things.
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.-- .... -.-- / -.. .. -.. / -.-- --- ..- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #215 - Dec 10th, 2020 at 8:52pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 10th, 2020 at 8:27pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 10th, 2020 at 3:51pm:
Quote:
Honestly rhino, using the "I've been there, so I know" debating method is one of the most pathetic forms of argument.


So why did you stand up for Brian when he insisted he had travelled to Malaysia without getting his head chopped off, and that this was somehow relevant?


The "witnessed it for myself" argument is valid. Except Brian has a habit of demanding that the media make it public for him to believe things.


So we have to take Brian's word for it that his head is still attached?
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Ayers rock - the first casualty of climb-it change.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #216 - Dec 10th, 2020 at 9:40pm
 
...

When are you going to meet some Muslims, Freediver?  No, don't answer that, it's a rhetorical question.  We know the real answer is never.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone wrote 8:4on Apr 27th, 2008:
So if the extremists are right and Islam...is antithetical to democracy, how do you account for countries with a majority muslim population that [are democratic?]
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Gnads
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #217 - Dec 11th, 2020 at 10:41am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10th, 2020 at 9:40pm:
https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/google/223...

When are you going to meet some Muslims, Freediver?  No, don't answer that, it's a rhetorical question.  We know the real answer is never.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #218 - Dec 11th, 2020 at 10:42am
 
Remember what 'Ant' Middleton said in EshAEsh Auschtralia - "I can tell a person's upbringing from the way he fights"... well - you can tell a person's upbringing from the way he argues.... look at the likes of Porter with zero real idea etc telling the world what it will accept... Jesus God...

Anyone who has no idea of real life argues for things that can bring dire harm on someone else or some other social group (but not on their chosen lot who are the same blind kind).... but it's all just theory as the Kommissar said at the mass grave site.... or the Obersturmbannfuhrer in charge of the camp said.... and as the 'feminists' say when they advocate caging men and keeping only enough of them alive for breeding purposes and using the rest as slave labour until they die of malnutrition and abuse... and always remember you are sacrificing your lives for the greater good of everyone else...

Only in WA.....  Roll Eyes   Grin  home of the serial killer and the dumbest Thatcherite politicians with a big chip on the shoulder from living in such a small population state and falsely believing that when ten of them pull dirt out of the ground and pay no tax they are actually supporting and propping up the nation.... if it was so good at digging holes they'd have zero unemployment and all their people would be rich - instead they work out any rort to bring in cheap labour and even recruit in the East for smarter and better trained people...

Time to get rid of the lot... be honest with yourself - would YOU take on Porter as your legal advisor?  Etc, etc, etc....???
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #219 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 7:17pm
 
The usual suspects, coming up with any reason to defend creeping Islamofascism on our doorstep. These people would defend Nazis if the situation were reversed.
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rhino
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #220 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 7:21pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10th, 2020 at 9:40pm:
https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/google/223...

When are you going to meet some Muslims, Freediver?  No, don't answer that, it's a rhetorical question.  We know the real answer is never.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Ive met thousands of Muslims, does that count?
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