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Alcohol ban Indonesia (Read 6154 times)
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #165 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm
 
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #166 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:18pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:23pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2020 at 8:08am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23rd, 2020 at 4:12pm:
The Quran allows alcohol so why do muslims avoid it?



Quote:
And from the fruits of palm trees and grapevines you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome provision. Surely in this is a sign for those who understand.

https://quran.com/16/67



interpretation: use the 'wholesome provision' proviced by these plants while avoiding the intoxicants.

eg - eat grapes but don't make intoxicants (wine) out of them.

Which is perfectly consistent with quran 5:90, which says to avoid 'intoxicants':

O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid1 it that you may be successful.


How does that explain the Khat addictions in Africa & the Middle East?

Most are Muslim countries.


I'm not trying to explain Khat addictions.

I'm merely pointing out that there is no contradiction in the two quranic verses that are quoted.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #167 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #168 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 5:46pm
 
Housos go to Indonesia - it's where we dump the white trash.

Mauritius is the new and better choice. Man can those Mauritian girls go. One got me hammered on her local choice of Gin and had me give it to her. She had a 'degree' too.  Wink
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #169 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:56pm
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)

Theres 17,000 islands in Indonesia and 267 million Indonesians. , I always have a bit of a laugh at people who live in Bali as expats and pontificate about Indonesian politics. I could almost guarantee your golf club mate would not be able to name any of the top players in politics over there and cant speak the language. The other point that your mate should know if he lives over there but apparently does not is that Bali is turning increasingly Islamic, 15 percent of the Balinese population is now Muslim and Mosques and Madrassas are popping up everywhere built by Saudi money. Jokowi chose as his running mate last election a fellow called Ma'ruf Amin who is, you guessed it, a radical Muslim  who is now vice President and who just happens to be anti gay , anti Western and anti alcohol. The anti alcohol crusade is not being driven by secular groups (lol what nonsense) but by hard line Islamists who have already banned alcohol in most of Indonesias major cities.  Their stated aim is also to replace western tourism  in Bali which they see as demeaning to their culture and religion with Muslim tourism, this is already happening in other Christian areas of Indonesia which are basically being turned Islamic by force of numbers, the Saudi Mosque and Madrassa funding is basically targeted at these minority areas in order to turn them Muslim.
Quote:
The world’s largest Muslim-majority country was long considered a tolerant place. But thanks to Saudi money and influence, it has taken a sharply conservative turn.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/16/how-saudi-arabia-religious-project-...
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #170 - Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #171 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 6:55am
 
JaSin. wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 5:46pm:
Housos go to Indonesia - it's where we dump the white trash.

Mauritius is the new and better choice. Man can those Mauritian girls go. One got me hammered on her local choice of Gin and had me give it to her. She had a 'degree' too.  Wink


Taking a risk going there - pretty close to Madagascar - a plague hotspot.

Next time you may find yourself getting into a "degree" of bother worse than worrying about Covid19 ....

especially since you like to get up close & partake of some local indigenous equestrian activity.  Grin


Quote:
The outbreak is considered a much bigger threat to the region than in previous years because it has taken on its pneumonic form - meaning it is airborne and spread by sneezing and coughing
.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4765804/plague-black-death-madagascar-warning-brit...
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Gnads
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #172 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 7:35am
 
rhino wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.


Yes I agree -

this playing down what's really going on by poohooing and saying it's just a small group going through the motions of "at least we tried" is a naive nonsense.

It makes light of the 202 people killed in Bali in 2002 - 88 of which were Australians .....

just killed by PGs "try hards" ey?

It's how they operate globally a slow & steady takeover .......

all the time being helped by Saudi cash.

Muslim against Christian sectarian violence - including beheadings, bombings, destruction of churches has been occurring across PG's secular Indonesia for decades.

Suluwesi - more than a decade of violence against Christains - 1000's have been killed & many 100's displaced - in 2005 3 school girls were beheaded.

Banjarmasin riots Kalimantan(Borneo Island) 1997 - Christians killed - protestant & catholic churches, Buddhist temples, homes & Chinese businesses burned down.

2016 Jakarta protests against a Christian politician accused of blaspheming Islam. After losing the election he was found guilty of blasphemy & sentenced to 2 yrs jail in 2017.
President Joko Widodo attended this protest.

In 2000 - before the Bali bombings - there were a series of bombings in Jakarta & across 8 other cities - all targeting Christian churches.

Malaku (Moluccan) Islands - sectarian violence 1999 to 2003 - thousands killed & 500,000 displaced.
These islands were originally Melanesian but they have been killed off & displaced over a long period by Javans & Indonesias Transmigration policies - just like they have been doing in West Papua for 55 years.

2005 Palu market nail bombing in Suluwesi targeting Christians killed 8 wounded 53.

2016 Samarinda Church bombing in Kalimantan - killed a toddler & injured 3 other toddlers.

2018 Surabaya bombings - 3 Christian churches
an apartment complex & police headquarters - 28 killed including bombers & 50 injured.

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Dec 5th, 2020 at 7:57am by Gnads »  

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #173 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 1:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 7:13pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 2:26pm:
I do not know about anyone else, but the hot weather really deters me from drinking alcohol. I can drink a mid-strength beer once a day before bed just for the relaxing and refreshing element to it. But, I would rather have water in this hot weather.

I could imagine that the ban on alcohol is probably the result of environmental factors in Indonesia, moreso than religious factors. Warm humid all year around there.


It's the result of Islam. Slowly but surely turning the screws on people.


Extreme elements of Islam are situated mainly in the northwest of Indonesia -- not in Bali. I would not be surprised that the alcohol ban in parts of Indonesia has something to do with the traditionally non-alcohol drinking population of the past. Alcohol may only be a few decades old in many parts of Indonesia. So, banning alcohol is a natural redirection towards the conservative culture of Indonesia.
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.-- .... -.-- / -.. .. -.. / -.-- --- ..- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #174 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 2:35pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 7:35am:
rhino wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.


Yes I agree -

this playing down what's really going on by poohooing and saying it's just a small group going through the motions of "at least we tried" is a naive nonsense.

It makes light of the 202 people killed in Bali in 2002 - 88 of which were Australians .....

just killed by PGs "try hards" ey?

It's how they operate globally a slow & steady takeover .......

all the time being helped by Saudi cash.

Muslim against Christian sectarian violence - including beheadings, bombings, destruction of churches has been occurring across PG's secular Indonesia for decades.

Suluwesi - more than a decade of violence against Christains - 1000's have been killed & many 100's displaced - in 2005 3 school girls were beheaded.

Banjarmasin riots Kalimantan(Borneo Island) 1997 - Christians killed - protestant & catholic churches, Buddhist temples, homes & Chinese businesses burned down.

2016 Jakarta protests against a Christian politician accused of blaspheming Islam. After losing the election he was found guilty of blasphemy & sentenced to 2 yrs jail in 2017.
President Joko Widodo attended this protest.

In 2000 - before the Bali bombings - there were a series of bombings in Jakarta & across 8 other cities - all targeting Christian churches.

Malaku (Moluccan) Islands - sectarian violence 1999 to 2003 - thousands killed & 500,000 displaced.
These islands were originally Melanesian but they have been killed off & displaced over a long period by Javans & Indonesias Transmigration policies - just like they have been doing in West Papua for 55 years.

2005 Palu market nail bombing in Suluwesi targeting Christians killed 8 wounded 53.

2016 Samarinda Church bombing in Kalimantan - killed a toddler & injured 3 other toddlers.

2018 Surabaya bombings - 3 Christian churches
an apartment complex & police headquarters - 28 killed including bombers & 50 injured.

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I see no-one making light of that.  The perpetrators were Muslim, not Balinese.
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #175 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 3:18pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 6:55am:
JaSin. wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 5:46pm:
Housos go to Indonesia - it's where we dump the white trash.

Mauritius is the new and better choice. Man can those Mauritian girls go. One got me hammered on her local choice of Gin and had me give it to her. She had a 'degree' too.  Wink


Taking a risk going there - pretty close to Madagascar - a plague hotspot.

Next time you may find yourself getting into a "degree" of bother worse than worrying about Covid19 ....

especially since you like to get up close & partake of some local indigenous equestrian activity.  Grin


Quote:
The outbreak is considered a much bigger threat to the region than in previous years because it has taken on its pneumonic form - meaning it is airborne and spread by sneezing and coughing
.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4765804/plague-black-death-madagascar-warning-brit...


True. I wouldn't go there (or anywhere) currently due to Corona. Plenty of Mauritian & Reunion Girls here to enjoy.
Gnads gets the ReUNION girls though.  Cheesy
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Bubbles
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #176 - Dec 6th, 2020 at 7:00am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 1:24pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 7:13pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 2nd, 2020 at 2:26pm:
I do not know about anyone else, but the hot weather really deters me from drinking alcohol. I can drink a mid-strength beer once a day before bed just for the relaxing and refreshing element to it. But, I would rather have water in this hot weather.

I could imagine that the ban on alcohol is probably the result of environmental factors in Indonesia, moreso than religious factors. Warm humid all year around there.


It's the result of Islam. Slowly but surely turning the screws on people.


Extreme elements of Islam are situated mainly in the northwest of Indonesia -- not in Bali. I would not be surprised that the alcohol ban in parts of Indonesia has something to do with the traditionally non-alcohol drinking population of the past. Alcohol may only be a few decades old in many parts of Indonesia. So, banning alcohol is a natural redirection towards the conservative culture of Indonesia.


Islamic extremism is situated either side of Bali. East/Nth East and West. In fact you could say surrounded.

Ever heard of Aceh? Large full on Islamic/Sharia province.

Remember the big tsunami?

We sent a heap of support over there in the shape of military helicopters & ADF personnel to assist - set up fresh water treatment plants etc.

Locals got very antsy reckoned we were going to take over - potshots taken at our helicopters

Ungrateful, suspicious little bastids.

The point is being made that Muslim/Islamist influence is being slowly asserted in Bali ..... more Muslims living there, more mosques being built...

there is only one way that is heading ... the same as been happening across all Indonesias island territories & colonial occupation of West Papua.

Most of the people who originally occupied the Moluccas/Maluku Islands, formerly the Spice Islands were Melanesians & pagans/animists ......

Javan expansionism has seen that demographic changed virtually completely to Asian Muslim with some pockets of Christianity.....

that is nearly always being persecuted by Muslims.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Gnads
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #177 - Dec 6th, 2020 at 7:08am
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 2:35pm:
Gnads wrote on Dec 5th, 2020 at 7:35am:
rhino wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 8:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 4th, 2020 at 1:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Nov 20th, 2020 at 6:01pm:


Have read the OP, and some posts on the first page.  This is a nothing according to one who knows.

My Golf Club has, since Covid, had a huge influx of new Members.  One is a refugee from Bali, an Aussie who has been there for years, and he runs two very well known restaurants in Bali.  He has boarded the businesses up and returned to Australia.

No customers, no business, no income for a great many of Balinese people who worked in those two restaurants.

He said that this alcohol ban thing often comes and goes with secular political groups well in the minority, and will never see the light of day, particularly in Bali where the locals are largely Hindu.

So, don't worry Gordon, you will always be able to get on the piss in Bali (if you can get there and the place is open for business.)


Pretty much as I suspect too.

Islamists have to continually put these sorts of proposals on the table - regardless of whether they think they might succeed or not. They feel like its their duty to their backers, and probably their God. If they fail, then no skin off their noses - their conscience will be clear - "at least we tried".

The reality is, despite the recent onslaught of propaganda from the usual suspects, Indonesia is still fiercely secular, and that doesn't look like changing significantly any time soon.
Remains fiercely secular? Really? Lest see some evidence of that.


Yes I agree -

this playing down what's really going on by poohooing and saying it's just a small group going through the motions of "at least we tried" is a naive nonsense.

It makes light of the 202 people killed in Bali in 2002 - 88 of which were Australians .....

just killed by PGs "try hards" ey?

It's how they operate globally a slow & steady takeover .......

all the time being helped by Saudi cash.

Muslim against Christian sectarian violence - including beheadings, bombings, destruction of churches has been occurring across PG's secular Indonesia for decades.

Suluwesi - more than a decade of violence against Christains - 1000's have been killed & many 100's displaced - in 2005 3 school girls were beheaded.

Banjarmasin riots Kalimantan(Borneo Island) 1997 - Christians killed - protestant & catholic churches, Buddhist temples, homes & Chinese businesses burned down.

2016 Jakarta protests against a Christian politician accused of blaspheming Islam. After losing the election he was found guilty of blasphemy & sentenced to 2 yrs jail in 2017.
President Joko Widodo attended this protest.

In 2000 - before the Bali bombings - there were a series of bombings in Jakarta & across 8 other cities - all targeting Christian churches.

Malaku (Moluccan) Islands - sectarian violence 1999 to 2003 - thousands killed & 500,000 displaced.
These islands were originally Melanesian but they have been killed off & displaced over a long period by Javans & Indonesias Transmigration policies - just like they have been doing in West Papua for 55 years.

2005 Palu market nail bombing in Suluwesi targeting Christians killed 8 wounded 53.

2016 Samarinda Church bombing in Kalimantan - killed a toddler & injured 3 other toddlers.

2018 Surabaya bombings - 3 Christian churches
an apartment complex & police headquarters - 28 killed including bombers & 50 injured.

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I see no-one making light of that.  The perpetrators were Muslim, not Balinese.


You ought read the brief instead of making it up.

I never said anything about perpetrators being Balinese

I was responding to the claim about Indonesia being fiercely secular .......

and my examples were of the actual sectarian violence being perpetrated across Indonesia by Islamists.

And the fact that the number of Muslims & mosques are increasing in Bali.

Bali - one little island in the middle of the archipelago will not stay Hindu only forever

Islamists wont allow it. 
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #178 - Dec 6th, 2020 at 8:08am
 
Let's make hay while the Sun shines then, ey?
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Re: Alcohol ban Indonesia
Reply #179 - Dec 6th, 2020 at 8:21am
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 6th, 2020 at 8:08am:
Let's make hay while the Sun shines then, ey?


Sure off you go .... I wouldn't go anywhere within Indonesian borders let alone the dive of Bali.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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