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Unions increase inequality (Read 18253 times)
freediver
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #60 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 10:00pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:50pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.

 
Grin Your truth does not equate to actual truth.... & what's unpalatable is ... your truth is a lie.


And yet you can do no more than sprout gibberish in response.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #61 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 1:54am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.


Ah - so the constant attacks on unions and unionists as 'thugs' and 'standover merchants' etc are not in the same vein?  Shorten was a union personage, and yet you are happy to dismiss him as a milquetoast - hardly fits with the thug image purveyed by the elitists, does it?

You need to get out more, FD, and see the world as it really is.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Gnads
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #62 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 5:58am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 10:00pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:50pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.

 
Grin Your truth does not equate to actual truth.... & what's unpalatable is ... your truth is a lie.


And yet you can do no more than sprout gibberish in response.


According to you..... & that means zilch.
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freediver
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #63 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 8:55am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 1:54am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.


Ah - so the constant attacks on unions and unionists as 'thugs' and 'standover merchants' etc are not in the same vein?  Shorten was a union personage, and yet you are happy to dismiss him as a milquetoast - hardly fits with the thug image purveyed by the elitists, does it?

You need to get out more, FD, and see the world as it really is.


The accusations of thuggery have nothing to do with the economics of unionism. Or at least, only indirectly. Yet they are also a valid criticism of the unions. We basically had to send in the riot squad to bring the unions into line. If not a building site would be a scary place for a non-unionist today. The wharves still are, for some reason.

I can start a different thread on union thuggery if you don't feel up to discussing how unions increase inequality. Just let me know.
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Jest
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #64 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:03am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 8:55am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 1:54am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.


Ah - so the constant attacks on unions and unionists as 'thugs' and 'standover merchants' etc are not in the same vein?  Shorten was a union personage, and yet you are happy to dismiss him as a milquetoast - hardly fits with the thug image purveyed by the elitists, does it?

You need to get out more, FD, and see the world as it really is.


The accusations of thuggery have nothing to do with the economics of unionism. Or at least, only indirectly. Yet they are also a valid criticism of the unions. We basically had to send in the riot squad to bring the unions into line. If not a building site would be a scary place for a non-unionist today. The wharves still are, for some reason.

I can start a different thread on union thuggery if you don't feel up to discussing how unions increase inequality. Just let me know.


So after all that you just typed you want us to believe you presented an impartial argument about unions and inequality.What was it you said; "We" basically had to send in the riot squad. We? You and Friedman are propagandists. You look for the conclusion you want and then concoct a BS argument to suit.
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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
 
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freediver
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #65 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:17am
 
Jest wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:03am:
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 8:55am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 1:54am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.


Ah - so the constant attacks on unions and unionists as 'thugs' and 'standover merchants' etc are not in the same vein?  Shorten was a union personage, and yet you are happy to dismiss him as a milquetoast - hardly fits with the thug image purveyed by the elitists, does it?

You need to get out more, FD, and see the world as it really is.


The accusations of thuggery have nothing to do with the economics of unionism. Or at least, only indirectly. Yet they are also a valid criticism of the unions. We basically had to send in the riot squad to bring the unions into line. If not a building site would be a scary place for a non-unionist today. The wharves still are, for some reason.

I can start a different thread on union thuggery if you don't feel up to discussing how unions increase inequality. Just let me know.


So after all that you just typed you want us to believe you presented an impartial argument about unions and inequality.What was it you said; "We" basically had to send in the riot squad. We? You and Friedman are propagandists. You look for the conclusion you want and then concoct a BS argument to suit. 


Stop whining. Who cares whether it is 'impartial'? Surely what matters is whether it is true?
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Ajax
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #66 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:17am
 
FD your argument is a fallacy because by and large good companies give their employees an appraisal every year and with that comes higher salaries and wages, unions are only needed when

employers will not give their employees a rise under any circumstances.

So it’s not the unions that are creating this inequality you assume but rather the corporations themselves by the yearly appraisal.

Now don’t tell me Milton didn’t look forward to his annual increase every year.

OR did Milton have one law for himself and another for those not as privileged as he.
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freediver
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #67 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:24am
 
Ajax wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:17am:
FD your argument is a fallacy because by and large good companies give their employees an appraisal every year and with that comes higher salaries and wages, unions are only needed when

employers will not give their employees a rise under any circumstances.

So it’s not the unions that are creating this inequality you assume but rather the corporations themselves by the yearly appraisal.

Now don’t tell me Milton didn’t look forward to his annual increase every year.

OR did Milton have one law for himself and another for those not as privileged as he.


So you think I must be wrong because wage inequality only has one cause - the one that unions constantly bleat about?

Your first two sentences directly contradict each other. Would you like to clarify what you were actually trying to say?
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Ajax
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #68 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:32am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:24am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:17am:
FD your argument is a fallacy because by and large good companies give their employees an appraisal every year and with that comes higher salaries and wages, unions are only needed when

employers will not give their employees a rise under any circumstances.

So it’s not the unions that are creating this inequality you assume but rather the corporations themselves by the yearly appraisal.

Now don’t tell me Milton didn’t look forward to his annual increase every year.

OR did Milton have one law for himself and another for those not as privileged as he.


So you think I must be wrong because wage inequality only has one cause - the one that unions constantly bleat about?

Your first two sentences directly contradict each other. Would you like to clarify what you were actually trying to say?


Your starting to sound like a teenager who has no experience.

Your the one assuming causation.

I'm telling you unions are not needed unless the employer will not give his employees a rise under any circumstances.

Then the people trapped in this paradigm have no option but to call in the union, because if an individual acts on his or her own more than likely they will be sacked at a latter date in the future for some reason or another.

So these people call in the union and the union does the talking for them, the company cannot sack the union representative.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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freediver
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #69 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:55am
 
Contradiction:

Quote:
Your the one assuming causation.


Quote:
So it’s not the unions that are creating this inequality you assume but rather the corporations themselves by the yearly appraisal.


Another contradiction:

Quote:
FD your argument is a fallacy because by and large good companies give their employees an appraisal every year and with that comes higher salaries and wages, unions are only needed when

employers will not give their employees a rise under any circumstances.


Let's start by making sense eh?
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Ajax
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #70 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 10:03am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:55am:
Contradiction:

Quote:
Your the one assuming causation.


Quote:
So it’s not the unions that are creating this inequality you assume but rather the corporations themselves by the yearly appraisal.


Another contradiction:

Quote:
FD your argument is a fallacy because by and large good companies give their employees an appraisal every year and with that comes higher salaries and wages, unions are only needed when

employers will not give their employees a rise under any circumstances.


Let's start by making sense eh?


Please explain why those statements are contradictory and why the last one doesn't make any sense to you.

Looks like you want to keep the argument alive at all costs even to the point where you yourself don't know what you're talking about.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Jest
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #71 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 10:42am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:17am:
Jest wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:03am:
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 8:55am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 1:54am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.


Ah - so the constant attacks on unions and unionists as 'thugs' and 'standover merchants' etc are not in the same vein?  Shorten was a union personage, and yet you are happy to dismiss him as a milquetoast - hardly fits with the thug image purveyed by the elitists, does it?

You need to get out more, FD, and see the world as it really is.


The accusations of thuggery have nothing to do with the economics of unionism. Or at least, only indirectly. Yet they are also a valid criticism of the unions. We basically had to send in the riot squad to bring the unions into line. If not a building site would be a scary place for a non-unionist today. The wharves still are, for some reason.

I can start a different thread on union thuggery if you don't feel up to discussing how unions increase inequality. Just let me know.


So after all that you just typed you want us to believe you presented an impartial argument about unions and inequality.What was it you said; "We" basically had to send in the riot squad. We? You and Friedman are propagandists. You look for the conclusion you want and then concoct a BS argument to suit. 


Stop whining. Who cares whether it is 'impartial'? Surely what matters is whether it is true?

And that's the point. If you know the conclusion you want and then work backwards to concoct the argument that will give you that conclusion, your conclusion is not worth sh*t. That's why its most important to be impartial & you have made clear you have no intention of being impartial. So why should we waste any time with you and your cheap propaganda. Better to just ignore you but warn others that neoliberals are desperate ATM because their rigged system is being challenged like never B4 and so they will hire as many bots as they can & tell any BS to hang on to their advantage
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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
 
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freediver
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #72 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 10:49am
 
Jest wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 10:42am:
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:17am:
Jest wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:03am:
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 8:55am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 1:54am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.


Ah - so the constant attacks on unions and unionists as 'thugs' and 'standover merchants' etc are not in the same vein?  Shorten was a union personage, and yet you are happy to dismiss him as a milquetoast - hardly fits with the thug image purveyed by the elitists, does it?

You need to get out more, FD, and see the world as it really is.


The accusations of thuggery have nothing to do with the economics of unionism. Or at least, only indirectly. Yet they are also a valid criticism of the unions. We basically had to send in the riot squad to bring the unions into line. If not a building site would be a scary place for a non-unionist today. The wharves still are, for some reason.

I can start a different thread on union thuggery if you don't feel up to discussing how unions increase inequality. Just let me know.


So after all that you just typed you want us to believe you presented an impartial argument about unions and inequality.What was it you said; "We" basically had to send in the riot squad. We? You and Friedman are propagandists. You look for the conclusion you want and then concoct a BS argument to suit. 


Stop whining. Who cares whether it is 'impartial'? Surely what matters is whether it is true?

And that's the point. If you know the conclusion you want and then work backwards to concoct the argument that will give you that conclusion, your conclusion is not worth sh*t. That's why its most important to be impartial & you have made clear you have no intention of being impartial. So why should we waste any time with you and your cheap propaganda. Better to just ignore you but warn others that neoliberals are desperate ATM because their rigged system is being challenged like never B4 and so they will hire as many bots as they can & tell any BS to hang on to their advantage


It's fairly simple logic jest. If you think it helps the unions to counter logical criticism with your whiny hysteria, be my guest.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #73 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 11:54am
 
But freed - the very same argument can be made about anything that continually drives up wages - such as privatisation, increased costs of production, poor management of national resources, zooming executive incomes and bonuses, happy times for shareholders and so forth...

The fact that Friedman picks out unionism as the sole cause is pure nonsense.... as I said - worker wages go up CHASING rises in all other costs, so looking at worker wages in isolation is a lost cause, since it is the last cab off the rank.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #74 - Oct 4th, 2020 at 11:59am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 10:49am:
Jest wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 10:42am:
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:17am:
Jest wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 9:03am:
freediver wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 8:55am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 4th, 2020 at 1:54am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.


Ah - so the constant attacks on unions and unionists as 'thugs' and 'standover merchants' etc are not in the same vein?  Shorten was a union personage, and yet you are happy to dismiss him as a milquetoast - hardly fits with the thug image purveyed by the elitists, does it?

You need to get out more, FD, and see the world as it really is.


The accusations of thuggery have nothing to do with the economics of unionism. Or at least, only indirectly. Yet they are also a valid criticism of the unions. We basically had to send in the riot squad to bring the unions into line. If not a building site would be a scary place for a non-unionist today. The wharves still are, for some reason.

I can start a different thread on union thuggery if you don't feel up to discussing how unions increase inequality. Just let me know.


So after all that you just typed you want us to believe you presented an impartial argument about unions and inequality.What was it you said; "We" basically had to send in the riot squad. We? You and Friedman are propagandists. You look for the conclusion you want and then concoct a BS argument to suit. 


Stop whining. Who cares whether it is 'impartial'? Surely what matters is whether it is true?

And that's the point. If you know the conclusion you want and then work backwards to concoct the argument that will give you that conclusion, your conclusion is not worth sh*t. That's why its most important to be impartial & you have made clear you have no intention of being impartial. So why should we waste any time with you and your cheap propaganda. Better to just ignore you but warn others that neoliberals are desperate ATM because their rigged system is being challenged like never B4 and so they will hire as many bots as they can & tell any BS to hang on to their advantage


It's fairly simple logic jest. If you think it helps the unions to counter logical criticism with your whiny hysteria, be my guest.


You can say that until your blue in the face, it wont make it right just by you repeating it. Though I grant you that's how propaganda works. If you keep repeating a falsehood there are those who will believe your falsehoods.
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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
 
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