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Unions increase inequality (Read 18255 times)
Ajax
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #45 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 10:14am
 
I'ld like to see work choices implemented to politicians.

The people would vote on whether or not they get a pay rise at the every election.

They maybe waiting for quite a while.

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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #46 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 10:41am
 
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:58am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:55am:
Quote:
Your assumption and Milton's theory in the OP are wrong.


Why do you think that?


Because I've been in the industry for 36 years.



So what?

Quote:
Which is shown by you sticking with unsupported technical theory where and I show real life examples ?


As I have pointed out, the theory is not unsupported. You will not find a single economist who disagrees with it. Furthermore, your "real life examples" support the theory and merely demonstrate your lack of understanding of the fundamentals.
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #47 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 10:57am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 10:41am:
Ajax wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:58am:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 9:55am:
Quote:
Your assumption and Milton's theory in the OP are wrong.


Why do you think that?


Because I've been in the industry for 36 years.



So what?

Quote:
Which is shown by you sticking with unsupported technical theory where and I show real life examples ?


As I have pointed out, the theory is not unsupported. You will not find a single economist who disagrees with it. Furthermore, your "real life examples" support the theory and merely demonstrate your lack of understanding of the fundamentals.


Supported or not - it is a silly theory and extremist as well as being elitist.  There are far more factors that increase inequality than any rises in pay ... besides which - the Unions here stand by the principle that they work for all workers and not just their members, so it is nothing to do with Unions in that sense anyway.

First we have to believe that paying correctly is the cause of low employment in a given industry - which is demonstrable nonsense given that an industry needs a certain number of employees to function properly, and cutting the numbers is cutting their own throat.

It's a half-baked propaganda piece for the employer groups with their incessant whining about the costs of labour while they live off the fattest in the land.

It is in fact the cost of industry and shareholding that causes inequality... business are always welcome to cut costs so that ordinary people don't need more income just to get by, but while ever there are get-rich-quick merchants running their shows, this will never change.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Ajax
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #48 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 11:10am
 
For FD


Quote:

Economics:

1. the branch of knowledge concerned with the production, consumption, and transfer of wealth
2. the condition of a region or group as regards material prosperity.

Economist:

a person who studies or has a special knowledge of economics

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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #49 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 11:45am
 
Quote:
Supported or not - it is a silly theory and extremist as well as being elitist
.

So you agree that it is true, but you don't like the truth?

Quote:
the Unions here stand by the principle that they work for all workers and not just their members, so it is nothing to do with Unions in that sense anyway.


So only in principle, not in practice?
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #50 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 12:25pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 11:45am:
Quote:
Supported or not - it is a silly theory and extremist as well as being elitist
.

So you agree that it is true, but you don't like the truth?

Quote:
the Unions here stand by the principle that they work for all workers and not just their members, so it is nothing to do with Unions in that sense anyway.


So only in principle, not in practice?


Not at all - support can mean anything... I have the full support of the Volksrat for the gassing of homosexuals.....
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #51 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 1:16pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 12:25pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 11:45am:
Quote:
Supported or not - it is a silly theory and extremist as well as being elitist
.

So you agree that it is true, but you don't like the truth?

Quote:
the Unions here stand by the principle that they work for all workers and not just their members, so it is nothing to do with Unions in that sense anyway.


So only in principle, not in practice?


Not at all - support can mean anything... I have the full support of the Volksrat for the gassing of homosexuals.....


I wouldn't go so far as to equate the unions with Nazis. The Nazis fully intended the outcome they created. The unions act more out of ignorance.
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #52 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 3:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 1:16pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 12:25pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 11:45am:
Quote:
Supported or not - it is a silly theory and extremist as well as being elitist
.

So you agree that it is true, but you don't like the truth?

Quote:
the Unions here stand by the principle that they work for all workers and not just their members, so it is nothing to do with Unions in that sense anyway.


So only in principle, not in practice?


Not at all - support can mean anything... I have the full support of the Volksrat for the gassing of homosexuals.....


I wouldn't go so far as to equate the unions with Nazis. The Nazis fully intended the outcome they created. The unions act more out of ignorance.



It's not the unions I'm comparing mit der Nazis - it's Herr Volksturmer Friedman.... he undoubtedly acts out of ignorance.........
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #53 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 5:12pm
 
Quote:
he undoubtedly acts out of ignorance


Ignorance of your delicate feelings, or ignorance of the truth?
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #54 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 5:13pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:02pm:
Jest wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 8:09pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 2:18pm:
Ajax wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 12:48pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.


RUBBISH.................!.............straight in the bin.

Milton Friedman's philosophy in a nut shell was,

Place everything into the hands of corporations and all else will sort itself out.


No it wasn't. He merely leans more in that direction than most economists, and his biggest disagreements are in macroeconomics.

Yet his analysis here is one of fundamental microeconomics. You will not find a single economist who disagrees with it. Perhaps if I wanted a rational argument I should have left out the messenger.


What crap Freediver. Truth is Milton Friedman was not an economist, he was a propagandist and the thing with the tripe he peddled as economics, most the time the opposite of what he said was true such as tax cuts for the rich will trickle down. But Ajax has already made this point


You are being irrational. He could be some drunk I met down at the pub. He would still be right. I try to give credit to an idea that is not mine, and you all lose the plot. Not a single one of you is capable of addressing the topic, simple as it is.


But of course he isn't right. Milton Friedman set the model for those so called neoliberal "think tanks" and "institutes" that are really propaganda cells. The IPA and Cato institute are typical examples. He showed them that you can concoct a BS argument to get to any conclusion you want. You just have to have the balls to deliver it with a straight face. And it doesn't matter that the argument is not convincing because what it does is gives those of their persuasion an argument to disseminate widely and when they keep repeating it, those on the fence think "well I hear it so often it must be true".
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freediver
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #55 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 5:36pm
 
Jest wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 5:13pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:02pm:
Jest wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 8:09pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 2:18pm:
Ajax wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 12:48pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.


RUBBISH.................!.............straight in the bin.

Milton Friedman's philosophy in a nut shell was,

Place everything into the hands of corporations and all else will sort itself out.


No it wasn't. He merely leans more in that direction than most economists, and his biggest disagreements are in macroeconomics.

Yet his analysis here is one of fundamental microeconomics. You will not find a single economist who disagrees with it. Perhaps if I wanted a rational argument I should have left out the messenger.


What crap Freediver. Truth is Milton Friedman was not an economist, he was a propagandist and the thing with the tripe he peddled as economics, most the time the opposite of what he said was true such as tax cuts for the rich will trickle down. But Ajax has already made this point


You are being irrational. He could be some drunk I met down at the pub. He would still be right. I try to give credit to an idea that is not mine, and you all lose the plot. Not a single one of you is capable of addressing the topic, simple as it is.


But of course he isn't right. Milton Friedman set the model for those so called neoliberal "think tanks" and "institutes" that are really propaganda cells. The IPA and Cato institute are typical examples. He showed them that you can concoct a BS argument to get to any conclusion you want. You just have to have the balls to deliver it with a straight face. And it doesn't matter that the argument is not convincing because what it does is gives those of their persuasion an argument to disseminate widely and when they keep repeating it, those on the fence think "well I hear it so often it must be true". 


You are still being irrational jest, still afraid to discuss the merits of the claim.
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #56 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #57 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.
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Gnads
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #58 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.

 
Grin Your truth does not equate to actual truth.... & what's unpalatable is ... your truth is a lie.
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Jest
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Re: Unions increase inequality
Reply #59 - Oct 3rd, 2020 at 8:25pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:50pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:47pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2020 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 10:24am:
This is an idea from Milton Friedman. To the extent that unions increase salary within an industry, they reduce employment. The people who cannot get a job in a particular industry because of unions inevitably seek employment in other industries, and thus drive down wages in those industries. As unions tend to be most active in trades that already have higher salaries, they tend to drive down salaries that were already lower. Thus, they increase wage inequality.



Yeah I'll bite again.

Pharque off with your Union bashing bullshyte.

Bottom line is they wouldn't exist if it weren't for greedy unscrupulous employers.

Your whole attitude is that of a conservative elitist prig.


I think this is typical of how the unionists react to unpalatable truths.

 
Grin Your truth does not equate to actual truth.... & what's unpalatable is ... your truth is a lie.


I think the following is the most appropriate response to FD's "alternative truth"


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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
 
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